The long brass 8ga cases have same thick
sides as plastic cases. And there are long
plastic/paper cases out there, but they
are scarce. Thick sides mean a good chamber
fit, so as to minimize case expansion and make sizing
easier. Here is picture 8ga and 10ga fullbore slugs with
locked on basewads that I setup. Wads held on by
screws and slugs hollowbase as well, so to work in
smooth barrels with some accuracy. 8ga is 1100gr.
10ga is 900 gr.Ed

New super strong 12ga bolt gun just out, Savage 212, taking
over for the 210. You know I did my first 12ga FH in a 210 and
have posted that sometime I'd like to get a thicker walled
reciever built to have more strength and safety.
Well Savage helped us out.

Its reciever is 1.5" diameter, where the 210 was 1.36" dia.
I has a large .900" diameter bolt, where the 210 had regular
110 bolt inside bolt carrier. It has a fitted bolt head like 210
and other Savage 110-116 rifles. Only its bolt head has two lugs
where the 210 had 3 lugs. Its two lugs about 90% strength as
the 210s 3 lugs.Its about 12% stronger lugs than Enfield and
Rugers. Also it appears the bolt raceways are not through the
barrel thread area so about 50% stronger barrel connection.

Price not too bad 500-550. I'll try to find one later to do some
hairy cartridges in. It has a 3" 12ga chamber from factory and
detachable magazine. Probably can have mag and port lengthened
and feed ok, with 3.5" 12ga and the 700H 3.25". More info
as I find out stuff.Picture from auction-e.Thanks to
Bob in OR for info.Ed

Ed- I'll have to get a good look at that Savage. That might be very cool.-Rob

A good day in hell
Big question is what PSI can it run. Maybe the 2" stubby can be a mag fed contender now.

quote:

Originally posted by hubel458:
New super strong 12ga bolt gun just out, Savage 212, taking
over for the 210. You know I did first 12ga FH in a 210 and
have posted that sometime I'd like to get a thicker walled
reciever built to have more strength and safety.
Well Savage helped us out.

Its reciever is 1.5" diameter, where the 210 was 1.36" dia.
I has a large .900" diameter bolt, where the 210 had regular
110 bolt inside bolt carrier. It has a fitted bolt head like 210
and other Savage 110-116 rifles. Only its bolt head has two lugs
where the 210 had 3 lugs. Its two lugs about 90% strength as
the 210s 3 lugs.Its about 12% stronger lugs than Enfield and
Rugers. Also it appears the bolt raceways are not through the
barrel thread area so about 50% stronger barrel connection.

Price not too bad 500-550. I'll try to find one later to do some
hairy cartridges in. It has a 3" 12ga chamber from factory and
detachable magazine. Probably can have mag and port lengthened
and feed ok, with 3.5" 12ga and the 700H 3.25". More info
as I find out stuff.Picture from auction-e.Ed

Sounds like someone is watching/paying attention Ed ...

I run 35,000 psi in old 210 with my 700H 3.25,
and 12ga FH one, the one I did in 700NE.....
so this will do about the same. Full diameter fat
bolt setup will allow extra rear locking lugs
after the port is lengthened, like I do on
my Enfields in 700H and 8ga.So those would do
regular 55-60k loads with 3 or 4 total lugs.And
thick reciever I won't worry about it breaking.
The reason I didn't beef up 210 with rear lugs
was thin reciever and interrupted threads..Ed

How about the browning bolt 12ga? looks much nicer, at least.

I imagine if the 210/212/xbolt could take your 700 3.25, it would handle the 700 DA just fine

Brownings do look nice. Not quite as big
as Sav 212, only thing is they are 2-3-4
times the price. And they'd do your 700DA
or the 700H 3.25. Brownings are tops
if you can get them reasonable.

I eyeballed/measured a 212 yesterday.
It has lot of room and length.
IT has a possible bolt throw of
5.15" and port can be opened so it could do
the long 700HE and 585HSM and feed from
redone real long magazine.ED

http://forums.accuratereloadin...471060451#4471060451
Barrel swaping single shot with future fully rifled 12 and 20 gauge high end single shot. Could be interesting for the FH series and more.

Mr. Hubel,

Would you loose the magazine feature of the 212 and just make a blind mag?
Could you fit a 50 cal mag like the one used by Safety Harbour? $80 bucks but it holds 5.

Cheers, John

I'm sure you guys have seen this slug already, it would be great for long range.
http://www.paraklesetechnologi...il.asp?prod=ss12cl10
Looks easy enough to make but what type of plastic do you use?

Cheers, John

For me I'd make a blind mag, singlestack, and use a 210
follower which is simple and easy to mount.
Most would want magazines. Safety harbor might
work if it is singlestack. I don't know if it is.
Maybe I can find a picture and some specs.

Now that streamlined steel slug is an inovation for
smoothbore use. Closest I got to that is long 458cal
bullets in 20gs buckhammer sabot base, in middle in picture..ED

Hey Guys,
If you were going to make your own Sabots what kind of plastic would you use?

Cheers, John

Where can one find those Buckhammer sabots? I tried a Google search.

I don't know of any others around, These came to me in a trade and guy doesn't have any more.
He got them from some shop that pulled
them apart for the slugs from them.Someone
experimenting. Remington had them made as well
as the 12ga ones. I don't know if they'd
tell you who did them.

For making your own sabots maybe Delrin would
work, but may cost as much as getting the right size
good ones from GS tech for 75 cents I think.
BPIs are undersize.
The BPIs are 30 cents each.Ed

Experimenting for fellows trying to get speed with heavier sabot slugs than
the lightweight saboted 4-500 gr kind of slugs, in 2 5/8" length brass
cases for where length is limited..

Using 770 gr sabot slugs with locked on base, by US-S.
These are long sabot slugs due being brass and locked on base.
Real hard to do with these due to lack of powder space for the RE17
and IMR 4759-4227 that I like to use. With 770 gr and 60gr 4759 got 1450 fps.
With 75gr Re17 about 1350 fps. Both of these all case will hold under sabot.

For contrast using full bore 730 gr Dixie with just seals under it, much more
powder room, with 95gr 4759 getting 1800 plus and 130 gr RE17 1700 fps.
I went to faster powder, my slowest shotgun powder, Alliant steel, to try to get
speed like full bore slugs get.

These listed are max loads before brass cases expanded to much and started
sticking, due to sharp expansion step, where the base goes to the side with a
real small inside radius on this particular RMC brass case.
47gr Steel,and 770 gr slug 1400 fps.

So I tried the 570 gr US-S with 53gr Steel,and got 1700 fps. Same slug with
65gr 4759 got 1650. You can put in more Steel but cases stick more.They won't
blow up, just stick. And cases expanded that way are hard to resize.

The first 3" brass I got years ago, same problem with
a sharp step expanding above the base. So when I had 3.5" brass made
I had them do a long inside radius from base to the sides. These with extra
room for powder and cushion are much less problem. I think where you have
to use shorter cases, you can use plastic, as a 3" plastic is 2 5/8"
when crimped and will do the same and only be 20 cents or so new.Ed

Ed,
By "770 gr" do you mean the US-S 970 slug?
Using Cheddite hulls and primers and Vectan SP2 powder velocities we get from the US-S 570 are 1500f/s in 2-3/4", 1700f/s in 3" and 1900f/s in 3/5" hulls.

Lefteris
www.europeancartridgeunlimited.com

This is a little different style 770 gr slug
a fellow got from you.He wants to use 2 5/8
brass cases in an 1887 WIN. These need a
seal. He got them trying to get the length
shorter but when seal is added they are same
as you US-s 700gr.IN 3.5" plastic I get over
2000 with 570 gr Us-s and 135 gr of RE 17.
Can't beat the long cases.Ed

Ed

I am going to have tap you for some knowledge and assistance, when my 20 ga 3" double is done.
I want to shoot full bore slugs.
But the twist is 1:24" which is a little fast.
The blanks were originally made for Sabot rounds, that is what it will be reulated with.
But I hope to get a full bore slug to work.
I have some Alcon 20 ga brass hulls to play with, but also Multi Hull 3" Hi brass.

What size 20 ga molds do you have ?

Thanks
Nitro

PS: I am in MI, so we will have to get together some time.

I have no molds. Dixie has a 490gr full bore slug
you might be able to buy. The 1 to 24 twist is perfect,
you won't have to worry about bullet stability.
Precision Reloading has 395gr SPW sabot slugs.
NEI has molds.

If you was chambered 3.5" you could shoot
the Hastings factory 20ga mag loads as well as get 3.5"
RMC brass. RMC brass fits the chamber better than the
drawn brass hulls. Do you have dies for Alcan
cases. Rmc makes 3" thickwall cases or any length,
where the sides match plastic cases for thickness.

Using plastic works also especially with a MEC Super
Sizer which makes cases better than new and operates easier
than dies in a big press you'd need.Ed

Ed

I have some full bore 1 0z slugs from "Turbo1889" over on castboolits, they are from a custom mold, also have full bore round balls from same person.
His mold is very similar to James's molds at Dixie.
I have 18 ga Nitro cards and fibre wads for the thin walled Alcan brass, but crimping the bullet and getting neck tension is always an issue.

The RMC is an option just a little pricey.

I opted for the 3" because it is a DR, the 3 1/2" was designed for healthy bull barrels and and stronger actions.

I got some 3" Lightfields from them, I do not know if they are available to the public yet, but this is almost a full bore slug with a very thin sabot, about 1/16". I hope these regulate.

I am looking forward to getting the load work done on this project, the gun is still a few months out.

I also need to order dies for my RCBS Rockchucker for the brass 20ga shells, who do you recommend ? Dave at CH4D ?

Thanks
Nitro

Dave can make them ok. But first check RCBS
to see if they have 20ga dies for thin cases
like they do for 12ga thin cases.Ed

Ran across this little tasty baby today.
http://www.fabram.com/en/products-elos-tanqueur.htm
Tested to 1630 bar. So I guess it could handle the loads in the plastic hulls anyway.

Looks expensive, cant find a price.

Cheers John

Ed

RCBS makes the cowboy die set for the 12 ga Megtech cases, but nothing in 20 ga.

Nitro

Damn none spelling shit that I am.
http://www.fabarm.com/en/products-elos-tanqueur.htm

I give up

Here is picture of a big bolt action a fellow on Homegunsmith
built to put big cases in, for his own use. It is of better looks,
quality than most other single shot actions, of that style being
built by others for sale. And that is absolute
sexiest bolt handle.
Also the fellow made a recess type of die and shaped punch
to make large caliber, copper bullet jackets, from plumbing
copper caps, and then put melted lead into them from
the back. He uses a big hammer, works great.
I got a few different sizes of caps and they are
perfect for bullet jackets. Right from hardware or plumber
supply places. ED

Answering questions bullet jackets from copper tubing
caps. This process makes jacketed slug with covered
nose. With heavy soft jacket as opposed to a
solid turned slug from solid rod or soft lead slug.

1/2" caps can make .700 and 12ga size jackets.
5/8" caps can do 8ga and maybe 10ga jkts.
And 3/4" caps can make 4ga. These cups are
malleable enough to shape into jackets,
without a 20 ton stamping press.

Interesting info about our posting of this subject on
about 5 dozen forums. One big general forum thread,
that we posted some info, has about 5 million views.It is
Mil Photo Forum a big world wide forum..
The top forum of the bunch, with whole thread on it
about 120,000 views, 2nd about 110,000, views, 3rd one
about 104,000(which is this forum) views, 4th one about
102,00 views. Ed

Here is picture of the 8ga falling block we are working
on, partly done. It is built like the 4bore one in a
one piece stock. IT is built .150" narrower than 4bore.
We used the heavy 8ga barrel that I first
put in the Enfield bolt gun for a 8ga testing.
I have got to chamber, put in firing pin, do
hammer and trigger. Gun in 1st picture.

Hammer and trigger setup is now mounted and moves
on the back of the breech block on an extension.
I also made this change first on 4bore, 2nd pic.
It uses NEF hammer and spring and Steven trigger.
Breech block set up same as 4bore just narrower.
Later hope to do a 2 bore and same setup only
breech and action a little wider.Ed

Hey Ed,
You know, one of these days your going to have to come up with a recoil system for these things. I dont think it will look much like a rifle any more. Probably more like a shoulder fired anti material weapon of some kind.

If you did it right you might be able to take the 8 ga. hunting!

Cheers, John

The 4 and 8ga can be carried and with the thick
pads and thumbhole stocks shoot fairly easy
from the shoulder. 8ga is 23 lbs . Barrel
can be ported. 8ga one is strong enough for
50bmg,12ga FH,10ga FH, 700HE. etc, and
can take high pressures like the bigger one.Ed

Here picture of the 8ga from back. This action will also
do 12ga FH, 10ga, 700HE, 600NE,50BMG,etc. The breech
block in this and the 4bore are 1 inch thick front to back,
with the width different. The bottom of block is same on all
and uses same linkage and lever; same hammer and trigger.
The 4bore one will do 20mm, as that is what I make
the 4bore brass from. When I do 2bore, breech block will use
same parts, but just be wider on the top of the block.
The recoil pads are over 2" thick. I made the stock
from a 2.5" thick blank......mostly by hand.

This action will hold much more pressure that the heavy
built plastic 8ga cases can take , and they are good
to over 20,000 psi. Like a 1000gr at 2500.Ed

Ed- Remind me. Are you using the internals from a Ruger No. 1 in your falling block?-Rob

No, I use other parts and mount them on
flanges on the back and bottom of the
breech block.The block starts out as a 1"
thick steel and for the 8ga is 1.35" wide
on the top half, then it is narrowed up on bottom
half where there is a slot up from bottom where
the linkage goes. Two flanges on bottom
made by the slot up from the bottom, are added
to, toward the back for hammer and trigger.
Hammer, trigger, firing pin,
lever,etc I get from Gunparts.Ed

Ed- If you have them, please post pictures of your action and internals.-Rob

Yes I plan on having more pictures made of the
action layout and details. ED

Should have the action turned into cnc code to duplicate.

interesting work, but wow the green one is seriously ugly

It's bubba beautiful

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
It's bubba beautiful

no, it aint...

there aint no pretty "girls" in a male prison