The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores 12 Ga From Hell -WOWGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
one of us |
Its a FP aluminum Mini Ball going 3000 fps out of a $300 rifled shotgun. What could be cooler? 150 years of balilstic advancement and some very twisted minds!-Rob Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
|
| One of Us |
The Afghan Army needs these for slaying the Taliban...  | |||
|
| one of us |
Could be Very Taliban effective! No hiding behind Yaks or ROCKs with these babies!-Rob Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
|
One of Us |
Can there be a Minié ball and non Minié ball AD? 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
|
| One of Us |
Not to hijack this Thread, but this is where the competent machinists congregate... Why do SAAMI headspace gauges cost so much? Is it a liability issue? I mean, y'all build bullets for $2.00 each, while a no-go gauge costs $40.00 at retail. Something is terribly wrong. | |||
|
| one of us |
Henry22LR- I make all my own headspace guages. I save my money for reamers. The SAAMI- spec guages are obviously dimensionally compared to a reference with strict tolerances. This takes time and time is money. Nothing BIG bORE RELATED IS CHEAP EXCEPT THE NEF! Boomstick- I like the name Aluminum Death Hammer! a ADH round, catchy. Here is a pic.-Rob  Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
|
One of Us |
Midway has HS gauges at 20 bucks apiece for standard calibers... There are a few more machining operations required... turning, gringing to spec, Quality Control and measuring, and imprinting the information, cost of manpower, machine power, elecrical power, shipping, materials, number made...plus some profit etc....all takes a bit more time so the cost is higher... Now that CNC machines are used the cost has dropped considerably... I can remember when the cost for a HS gauge was close to half the cost of a reamer in some of the "wilder" wildcats. You don't HAVE to use a HS gauge...I use a sized case so I know the chamber and sizer die fit closely and also check it against a couple of different brands of facory rounds in the standard calibers...less case squeezing and longer case life...especially with belted cases. Of course liability is always an issue for those who make a living at this game. For anyone new to this game doing a "DIY" project I recommend using a HS gauge from a reputable maker. Luck on your projects. | |||
|
| one of us |
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
|
| One of Us |
Lookin' Good!! That's a huuuge ol chunk of aluminum....WHOA!! Is deer season over yet RIP...???  | |||
|
| One of Us |
This has to be the deadliest aluminium bullet there ever was... Is aluminium the new lead? Recycle cans instead of wheel weights. Rob. If 500 S&W bullets could be stuffed in the ADH hollow point... man how cool! it could turn them into sabots
577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
|
| One of Us |
would there be any benefit to hard anodizing them? It is a cheap way to get around some of the anti lead laws. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
|
| One of Us |
How about an aluminium/lead/brass/copper or plastic pointy tip to raise the BC/weight and aid expansion??? not that this projectile needs any expansion PS those deep hollow points are a pre made bullet mould! pour in some lead to make them 500 grains. LOL thick aluminum jacketed bullets for reeeeely controlled expansion! If you thread the deep hole it can act as a "Core lokt" If it is threaded you could just screw in the insert of choice depending on application. I guess you could even make a cast lead "Bolt" to screw in. When fired it would only tighten with the twist. It could be a whole bullet modular system. ADH with multiple warhead options... Tests please!!!! OK, I drank too much coffee... can you tell 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
|
| One of Us |
 | |||
|
| One of Us |
The screw inserts could be flush to make a heavier flat nose ADH or match the conical taper of the darwin and make a spitzer or round nose of any type metal. Let's say you had a Brass Darwin but you could add the high BC aluminium tip or just use the plain ADH with no insert ect. If you add the thread there will be more ways to make it dead 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
|
One of Us |
The BC will still suck I bet. Why would you want to make it weigh more? I thought light was the name of the game for the aluminum bullets? Love shooting precision and long range. Big bores too! Recent college grad, started a company called MK Machining where I'm developing a bullpup rifle chassis system.  | |||
|
| one of us |
Range report- The Aluminum Death Hammers worked really really well. 205 gr of IMR 3031 and a 350gr or 240gr Darwin beer Keg provided a thunderous Boom and a amazing muzzel flash ( it was a very overcast day here in Nev. Accuracy was excellent with the bullets continuing to shoot to the same point of aim as the brass darwins or Winchester sabots etc. The holes in paper were sharp and showed no signs of tumbling even at 3000 plus fps. The guns continued to have no misfires once we adjusted the headspace with the rim. To say I was pleased was an understatement. BTW recoil was markedly reduce and with the 240gr bullets loaded HP out was basically non-existant. I was able to finally recover two aluminum bullets and here is a pic for your edification. The NEF can handle loads from 1085gr down to 240gr with velocities from 1500fps to over 3000fps. Boomstick you do realize that anodizing aluminum is based on making aluminum oxide on the surface of the metal then getting an organic dye to bind. Aluminum oxide is one of the most abrasive substances known and would quickly do the David Tubb FINAL FINISH to the NEF's barrel.-Rob  Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
|
| One of Us |
Not sure BC is much of a factor of the heavy weight slugs at the velocities and expected impact distances...although something hard and pointy would aid them penetrating a bit farther and increase the BC's of the lighter AHD rounds making them much more effective at longer ranges. Maybe something pointy at the other end would aid in expansion of a hollowpoint and reduce the amount of penetration....i.e., dump ALL the energy inside the victim instead of punching through and whacking 6 more victims behind the first....  There are still many way yet to work through to get these slugs to perform to differing levels. This link is getting totally hyper....  ILOVEIT.....!!!!! AWESOME WORK ROB | |||
|
| One of Us |
Awesome stuff!!! Rob I was wondering about the abrasive factor. I thought that the skin it makes could maybe stiffen the hollow point but I guess it is a bad idea. What is your opinion on the threaded hollow point? Congrats on the success!!! 350@ 3,000 fps... Bat out of Hell is the phrase that comes to mind. ADH for plainsgame and brass darwins for DG I think these ADH Darwins need a run in RIP's Iron Buffalo or his elephant skull media duplicator. I think these could sell like hotcakes! Plus you can use them in leas ban areas. The great thing is the 350 grain weight and it wont expand or overexpand like most lead ones on the market. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
|
| One of Us |
When's the steerable version gonna be available..?? Can you get sponsorship from beer companies if you paint the kegs with their logos..?? | |||
|
| One of Us |
Maybe a plastic or metal penetrator/obturator, something shaped like a miniature Rem hammerhead slug, tapered on the ID, and the hollow point hole slightly larger ID so the walls were thinnner, then impact skive the inside walls... The penetrator would act like a wedge expander and turn the walls out and into rotating knives ala the early Talon rounds or just make a larger diameter expanded area.... One problem with a large hollow point...it can fill with hide or other junk and end up causing the bullet to act like a solid. Having something in the hole doing a specific job could make for a better process. Al oxide...talk about sandpaper...ask any welder just how much trouble Al oxide causes in the welding process.  | |||
|
| one of us |
One of my early ballistic career high lights was getting a 350gr bullet to go 3000fps from a .460Wby. It took 205gr of IMR 3031 to do what the Wby did with 120grs( cant remember what powder now). I actually believe with a charge of 140gr of Aliant 2400 you could get the same velocity however I'd want to use a fibre filler in the 3.25" 12GaFH case or maybe just use a 2 3/4 inch case. I am keeping the NEF operating pressure to 26 Kpsi or less as a fundamental parameter. I doubt these Al bullets are great penetrators and should be restricted to paper punching, bottle exploding and varmint vaporizing. Deer or Black bear might be fine too and so ECO friendly it hurts! BTW when the ADH's hit the sand backstop at the range we could see a very bright flash. None of the deep hole hollow points were recovered. I'd bet shooting rocks with these things will be awsome! Recoil is so mild with the 240gr bullets they could easily be fired off a rest for accuracy testing. I'm also thinking the NEF needs a .730 bullet diameter from the engraving observed on recovered bullets. Finally, Boomie Remember, we covered this before with the Dart stabilized Aluminum bullet studies. However, as the weight goes up, the speed goes down given the operating pressure range of the NEF. Macifej- I learned how to engrave on a cylinder recently. Maybe I should bring out a engraved Budwiser logo on my bullets, a COLT .45 Malt Liquor bullet, SHLITZ, Heinekin and maybe a serial number for those poor souls in Kalifornia. YOu can collect and/or shoot em all! -Rob Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
|
| One of Us |
This link is getting into the realm of early testing for tank bustin'...deactivated yur-something penetrator tips anyone... Bright flash....aluminum disintegrating possibley??? Cool | |||
|
| One of Us |
Well a high BC spitzer screw in point wont affect the weight much... 50 grains maybe to make it an even 400. if the tips of the thread are .500" you could also stuff in the pistol bullets. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
|
| one of us |
Rob, The package of your brass arrived today, cases, rims and beer kegs.  I have not had a chance to delve into it yet but will get started soon as I can, thanks. NEF rifling does seem to be on the big side. I think if I cast Darwins in Linotype they will come out at 1333 grains and .732" diameter, and that will make a perfect 3.05 Foster Darwin for the NEF, no sizing needed.  Shooting the flatnose aluminum slugs will be like toasting marshmallows! Fun, but boring after a while. As FOOBAR has already mentioned, you need to get the point, a hollowpoint spitzer, I hope, on that 12ga aluminum bullet if it is to be good for anything other than pyrotechnics! | |||
|
| one of us |
RIP- Glad your care pkg arrived unscathed.I can't ever seem to get a really accurate measurement of bore diameter but it could well be .731. Thus I'd agree with you on a .732 linotytpe bullet shot as is with no sizing. The .7295 bullet diameter still seems to work pretty well though and is engaging enough rifling for good stability. It would of course be very interesting to see what a aluminum bullet does in your Iron buffalo. I dont have much doubt about what the brass Beer kegs will do though. I think we should not fool with adding penetrators of any kind. Lets keep this to sporting uses only..-Rob Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
|
| one of us |
Here is a picture of porting holes in a 10ga NEF heavy long smooth barrel. Bbl 30" and 1.080" muzzle diameter behind the screw in choke area. This come with slightly extended screw in choke and is first 10ga with long barrel as heavy as my NEF 12ga FH short barrel was.. OR the short NEF 10 gauges with heavy barrel..It came with full and mod chokes. The other 10ga I tested earlier, only .960" at muzzle. I cut choke off and put it back in leaving the barrel an open bore for slugs and leaving an area 1.2" long for an internal brake to drill all the holes in like Rob did with NEFs in his picture. Now the 1.2" long area where holes are is bigger than needed for 10 ga so a reamer in the making will solve that and solve a major big bore project for me and others who asked me about using the short NEF 10ga for upgrade, which I didn't encourage putting all that work on a short barrel gun, with the amounts of powder that will be burnt in....are you ready.......THE 8GA FH....... I have 8ga FH loads tested in reworked Enfield.....Ed  MZEE WA SIKU | |||
|
| one of us |
Ed-Ever thought of modifying the NEF barrel and action with a barrel mounted locking system that would lock up to a square steel section mounted on top of the receiver? It Would require some TIG welding on top of both the barrel and the receiver, but would add a great deal of additional strength to the action, maybe allowing 40Kpsi loads. With the right powder and bullet, even a short barreled NEF could deliver 10,000ft-lb loads. of course at some point, the ability of the shooter self limits what loads the gun is capable of. After all, the barrel is TIG welded to the locking system so I dont see why welding a second lug to the top of the barrel would be any worse. Would probably require some thermal stress releiving but thats a good thing. BTW, I once put similar porting into a .585 Nyati and it worked amazingly well. What cases are you using for your 8GaFH? Will it be crew served or what?-Rob Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
|
| one of us |
Ed, Wow! 12gaFH too light in the loafers for you?  Are you planning to bore the heavy 10-ga barrel to 8-ga smoothbore? Are you using the industrial "kiln-cleaner" 8-gauge hulls? Are they plastic or all brass? Rob, I think the NEF-er will do all I need for kicks as is. Scout Scope or iron sights might be required to allow a barrel extension fastener on the breech? Rising bite, doll's head, or Greener? Can you get a Jones underlever on the NEF-er too? I want to get a 13-ounce muzzle weight/Vais brake on my NEF-er, but hope to get a starting load for Triple Foster Darwins before then. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I've thought quite a bit on how to increase the capabilites of th NEF action quickly and cheaply. Increasing the dia of the hinge pin to 0.400" or slightly larger and lengthening it plus adding some side weldments...half moon "C clips"...to add strength and spread the pressures over a larger area and reduce the frame stretching maybe and using a solid lug...no ejector/extractor Doing something along the lines you suggest...similar to a Webley revolver to reduce the unlocking problem...and maybe just a bit simpler... Most of the problems centered around the cost of modifying an inexpensive shooter...trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear so to speak... And the fact that, as is, the NEF can be loaded up beyond the ability of most shooters to handle the recoil with the heavy Darwins and without getting into the higher pressure range...makes for any costly mods moot. Some of the mods could be done quickly and on the cheap...the hinge pin and lug and lockup being the weakest areas of the whole shebang and those could be modified quickly to handle all the pressure the barrel can stand. Finding someone that can plasma or TIG weld a solid lug on the barrel is a problem in my area, but I think those few mods would go a long way to making a stronger action and a better platform for using the 50BMG cases. I finally decided it was too costly for me to consider, that and not having the machinery and skill to run that machinery leave my out in the cold again...but doing it would be a very interesting project...just for the simple edification of doing it. I would have to let someone with more resources do the job while I watch and enjoy. Luck on your projects. Rob...My SB2-980 still hasn't arrived but it's supposed to be en route...I will get it off to you as soon as the dust settles. Enjoy your toys. | |||
|
| one of us |
Yes we will make a smoothbore 8ga like I did on the Enfield. And for now use plastic 3.3" kiln cases with double cup base, and base shaved a little so that regular 8ga cases work also. My testing I was able to load 6-8000 ft lb loads in those case 4 times without resizing. Cases are only 70 cents primed, 10,000 ft lbs is possible. I may have a guy who makes hollowbase 1100 grainers. Or cast our own. And the gun only 220 bucks, It needs and will get an 80 dollar thumbhole stock and a shop in Detroit will ream it for 100 bucks, if I don't figure out my owm reamer setup. Which I think I have a reamer figured out. As far as beefing NEF locking, most important is use SB2 10-12ga, alloy reciever and put in 3 times as heavy of a locking lug spring. If it still is loose take out locking lug and relieve it a little where they hit on their front side, up against the frame.The frame acts as a stop so that lug won't pivot too far and be overcenter making it hard to unlock.Get it set right. Must let the lug, cam all the way forward to make tight closure. I had NEF experts on other forums tell me this and I did it to 12GA FH, and it stays tight.If they are set right it takes some muscle to work lever with heavy spring. The only break single action lock that is better is Encore and after studying the encore here, I have decided that with my old machines I can do an overgrown version for my 4 & 2 ga/bores much, much easier than falling block.Ed MZEE WA SIKU | |||
|
| one of us |
The 8 Gauge From Hubel. Karl. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Ed...Which forum was it that you got the information about the better method of NEF lockup? I would like to research it...get a better idea on how to set my 12GAFH up. Thanks | |||
|
| one of us |
I don't remember now but a fellow said his was unlocking with his heavy goose reloads, or something like that, and he put in heavier spring and no troubles. I put heavier spring in mine as a precaution, but still could feel slight wobble, so mine had a plug in the right side and I could put screwdriver in and pry the locking lug forward and wobble went away. So I took out lug and shaved the front where it hits frame and no wobble.Only took off about .015". That locking lug swings in an arc against the slanted barrel lug surface. Here is other project suggested by Boomie the 16GA FH. Cases made by me from bmg brass. Took 5 swagings, and two turnings on my case spinner lathe. Got couple cases made, in picture our 3.5" case and factory 16ga plastic case slug load. I'm getting test gun working now and as for a supply of cases you all will have to get with RMC.Ed  MZEE WA SIKU | |||
|
| One of Us |
Looks great Ed!!! Now is macifej making the 665 rifled barrels??? That is some case forming artistry there... Swaging down BMG brass for the worlds strongest 16 gauge!!! Can you post a pic of these next to the other bretheren of the 8, 10, 12, 20 GFH's??? 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
|
| one of us |
No barrels being made. I am just testing it in a break action 16ga, the heaviest barreled one I could find of break or bolt action. Still not real heavy, but suitable for 16ga Lightfield slugs shown on the rt in picture. About 4000 ft lbs I think we will have. Will have it going in a few days.ED MZEE WA SIKU | |||
|
| One of Us |
Thanks Ed...Quickdtoo on Graybeard suggested keeping the locking lug engagement flat on the barrel lug free of oil and also suggested several ways to increase the engagement surface area...didn't read anything about a stronger spring but I hadn't gotten that far yet...never had an unlock even with heavy loads in my 45-100 BC. Any increase in contact area on the barrel lug flat by the locking lug would definitely be an improvement in the locking arrangement... That 16 ga is totally neat..... Luck on your projects. | |||
|
| one of us |
I'm going to knockout a few top locking kits for the NEF. I think I'll locate them in place with a few 6-32 screws then TIG weld them in place once I have the lock-up adjusted properly. I'm quite good at TIG welding( I actually love to TIG weld) and the barrel really needs a proper blueing anyway. I'm planning on adding a single 1/2 inch square of steel on top of the action, with a bottom radius identical to that of the action and a matching/mating barrel extension with a 1/2 inch squate loacking square cut out and also bottom radiused to the barrel, so that it will look like it was machined as one piece once I'm through. Yes it will look kinda like a top break Webley, but then I'd be comfortable going to 36Kpsi-40KPSI and maybe more in the NEF. That should put it well into the 8K-9K Ft-lb range with faster powders and still lets me keep the shorter barrel and will take some strain off of the action pin which should be increased in diameter also. I'll post pics once I've made the parts. MY PLAN also calls for some proof loads at this level and I'll install a Oehler strain guage to help me establish a safety margin. For $300 some destructive testing is totally doable also to allow for reliable proof loads. THE NEF is going where no one has gone before! I need SafariKid to come out here for testing though! I think he's way more recoil tolerant than I am. Finally, with some fancy parts, nice blueing and a fancy wood stock( maybe some nice knurled action release, Hammer etc, you could probably have a single shot DGR you could take to AFRICA or anywhere else and hunt everything from birds to Elephant. I'd estimate this could all be done for under $2500( which includes the cost of the NEF). Once I get my 06 FFl, brass will be no issue as will reloading dies and Darwins made from Brass, Copper and Aluminum.-Rob Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
|
| One of Us |
You might need more than one recoil sponge Would love to join in the fun in Nevada some day. RGB you will soon be the one stop shop NEF 12GFH Darwin BrassPimp (Insert pimp smiley here) Go Rob!!! This is redefining the shotgun. Will you ever make the scaled up #1 for this? 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
|
| one of us |
Boomstick- Ultimately I'd really like to see this become a successful sporting cartridge and I see it as a modern revival of the 12 Bore. Yes your welcome to do some test firing, when your in NV. My ultimate goal is a entry level gun like the NEF, a very high quality Single shot and a very high end double rifle all based on the 3.85 inch case. This will require all the appropriate licenses though. Till then its just R&D. -Rob Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
|
| one of us |
They put on the pieces for scope rails for NEFs. You make the top locking piece as long as a scope rail, and it would do double duty as the scope rail. Being 6" long it would have good connection to the barrel maybe with just a bunch of hardened screws. If mine and may try it on 8g sometime, I'd mill the top of reciever to match barrel curvature and let the rail extend back over the reciever about 3/4" with peg on it fitting into hole in for a dolls-head type of hookup. The reciever standing breach is plenty thick for that. Plenty of metal for a hole for the peg to be deep enough without being near firing pin. Beef up extractor........Then you could run 40-45,000 psi loads just fine. Pressures like that you can get 15,000 ft lb loads like the Savage.Ed MZEE WA SIKU | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 ... 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 ... 75 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores 12 Ga From Hell -WOW
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia