Checked with RMC today for 3.5" 20 ga...$85/10 plus shipping...and NEF 20ga Ultra SH $325.00...the 20 USH barrel has ~0.250" chamber walls and ~0.1925" with the "African" 12 ga chamber...the 20 ga RMC cases will handle more pressure than Magtech for sure and have less case head back thrust than the "African".

Ran some predictions for both cases...900gr Woodleigh, 3" RMC 20ga case, 3.75 COAL... 1700fs at ~27KCUP.

Roughed out a 600 African drawing...2.5" case length, 0.450" neck length, ~45° shoulder angle, ~215 gr H20...~175gr H2O Net capacity...the 3" 20 ga and the 12 Ga cases have identical case volumes and with the bullet seated the same dept, both cases had the same NET volume...by adjusting the parameters...those capacities would change depending on many factors...basically the same case capacity as the 600 OK...but running at a lower pressure.

Dies would run ~$200 from Ch4D...OR?

I've talked myself into and out of this project about a dozen times today alone. I think the 600 African is a cool looking cartridge, but the 20 ga 620 Hellboy would be more economical and attainable in my case, but my 12GaFH keeps saying WHY...I can buy a lot of slugs of various weights to shoot in it for what I would spend building the either of the other two.

Wonder how a Browning A5 would work or a nice double barrel OU or side by side? Looked at a Stoeger "coach gun" today...looked good fron across the store...not too good up close and thin chamber walls. Maybe an 1887 Win?

My head hurts.

Luck

The 20 gauge Savage bolt gun seems like the best option

John,
The .600 African was designed to be used in todays 12ga repeating shotguns with 3.5" chambers. Your Benelli Supernova is perfectly suited for this cartridge. Actually, I use a Benelli Nova for testing. 900grain brass slugs (in a sabot) and plastic hulls. They start at 1500f/s at 15000psi. This is why I beleive that when loaded in brass cases, 1700f/s could be achieved at same pressures.
Does your Supernova has a smoothbore or rifle barrel?

FOOBAR,
Please, send to me an mail so I can send back drawings for both cartridges.
If a major shotgun manufacturer produce barrels chambered for the .600 African, we could provide loaded ammunition with the Soflid bullet.
A chambering reamer ould be easily made by grinding a 12ga, 3.5" reamer.
If I had to use a single shot or bolt action mechanism, then, the 12gaFH is the logical choice.

Lefteris
www.europeancartridgeunlimited.com

Hi Lefteris,
Mine is a Benelli Supernova Tactical smoothbore.
I think if I were to go down this road I would have a 600 barrel made that had a thicker profile for strength and add some weight to the gun.
I tried some 1 1/4 oz. slugs in 3 1/2 inch plastic with some slow powder that worked very well, but the recoil in a 7 1/2 pound gun would really rattle your teeth.

Now I have an idea (don't know if it fits) to put a 20ga bolt in my Supernova and use cut off and formed 50BMG brass along with a 20ga rechambered rifled barrel.
It would look like the 600 African only rimless.
The advantage is cheaper brass that is really strong.
I have no idea if it would work.

Cheers, John

Lefteris; Thanks...I sent you an email yesterday through ECU...getting a reamer is not a problem, I could have PT&G grind one, I just thought this might be your proprietary cartridge.

RMC can't do this cartridge as he said he didn't have the required tooling...so some forming dies probably will be required to form the case down as much as required. It would sure be easier if the Russian cases were easily obtained.

I remeasured my NEF chamber walls...~0.200" - 0.205" with the paint in the way.

John...if you want a rimless you're talking about the 600 OK basically...~0.658 OD just above th belt...0.683" belt OD and ~0.638" slightly rebated rim...3" long. Not sure how the rebated rim would work in the shotgun platform and really no reason to go rimless there either.

My Rem 870 has a chamber OD of 1.23" and the Mossy 500 is 1.255" but both taper off quickly...a barrel with a rifle contour can be made to solve the stength issue...but BOTH the shotguns have rather weak lockups as do most shotguns. I would feel much more comfortable in the pressure dept with one of the bolt action shotguns and again with the smaller case head of the 20 ga over the 12 ga case, the areas being 0.302" sq vs 0.419" sq, a difference of ~2900 lbs at 25KPSI...although if you use a 50 BMG case, all the above is pretty much moot.

Robs case mods solves the rim "problem", but I've always wondered if the extractors on the several shotguns could be modified a bit to work with the standard BMG case...except for the legal requirements, that could probably be resolved. Things work well right now so why bother mucking about.

The alternative is going to a 3.5" 20ga case...then you basically have a 250 gr H2O case volume which puts you WAY up in the velocity/recoil realm...YOU, not me...I'm way too wussy in my old age for all that "stompanado de me pobre cuerpo individio"...

Lots of ways to get there from here.

Luck

John,
Cut a .50 BMG case to length, removing shoulder and neck and try to cycle it through the action of the Supernova. I think it will cycle and extract perfectly but ejection may be a problem. A new ejector may be needed and maybe some extractor work.
I suppose a shortened, necked down and rimless 50 BMG could be made to work with your gun as a rimless .600 African.
Some modifications of the magazine release system will also be needed.

Lefteris
www.europeancartridgeunlimited.com

My 12 GAFH sizer reduces the .50BMG cases so they will fit in a 3.5 inch chamber when cut down to that size. I'm not impressed with those RMC cases, and would rather have .50BMG brass. I see no reason you can't get a 900 gr sabot to 1700fps with the right powder in a 3.5 inch case. Didn't know a Benneli super nova could handle that though. -Rob

QL predicts RL-17, AA4350, Win WXR and a couple of other similar burn rate powders will hit 1700 fs/900gr in the neighborhood of 18KPSI... plus/minus a grand...using a case capacity of 215 gr...approx the same case capacity as the 600 African, 600 OK, 3" 600 NE, 3" 20 ga...that might be a little steep for the Benelli's lock up and chamber/barrel taper...but if you used a BMG case ??

I definitely would creep up slowly and look for someone with a pressure testing system before going too high plus finding out just what the Benelli Nova is presure tested to...and you definitely need a chrono.


Defnitely going to be interesting to see if and how this cartridge develops.

Luck

The Supernova is one of the few shotguns to have locking lugs, four of them, so it is as good a candidate for the 600 as any.
I was thinking a 20 ga. bolt to catch the rim of the 50BMG brass.
Cutting something bigger is OK, but tig welding material in is a bitch. Well for me anyway.

I've had a belief that the damgerous game rifles we use are built wrong. Since it takes to long to reload and you cant shoot as your reloading.
If there was a cross between a pump shotgun and a Marlin guid gun you would be there.
A pump action, bottom feeding, short barrel, big bore that would handle fast and you can reload with a round in the chamber ready to fire.

Cheers, John

Hey FOOBAR,
I'm not going to build this thing I'm to old and beat up to try.
Although if I keep getting artificial body parts then maybe.....
I do enjoy talking about what could be done.

You guys have a good Thanksgiving
Cheers, John

I think I might just saunter along slowly this winter, scoring the pieces and parts as I pass them...at least in a NEF USH platform starting with a 3" 20 ga. If nothing else I can lob a few slugs at sage ratz.

From all QL indications 1700fs with a 900 gr bullet is achievable with the 20 ga 3" so it would be easy enough to have PT&G do a reamer for the 600 African with a half inch extra "freebore"...or a 3" version of about 265gr volume and use 50 BMG cases....maybe I could swap the reamer for some necked down 50 BMG cases ready to fire form or ??

Luck

I need to take a look at the Benelli's also, I didn't know they had such a strong lockup.

Took a 12GaFH case/brass slug by Big 5 today...the guys and girls in the sporting goods wanted to see one after I talked to them about it a few days ago. Got a WHOLE lot of "HOLYSH**'s all over the floor. I don't think they believed me the first go 'round.

Again, no one wanted to take up the offer of shooting a round. One girl wanted a case/brass slug...until I told her the price.

Luck

Remember the reason the 12GaFH was developed in the first place is its not a DD under Federal law. Any other shotgun case is fine too but if you neck down a 12 Ga Case to .620, you now have a DD that has to be registered. The .600Ok is Registered and approved as is the .550 magnum and some of Ed's cases. Just reminding everyone. We don't need problems. I'm going to take a closer look at the Benneli.-Rob

Thanks again, Rob, for reminding me/us there are always flies in the pie and fleas on a dog...that small fact keeps slipping my mind...

What a He**of a shooter a Benelli pump or Semi-auto would make if it could be converted to handle the 600 OK, 600 Jeffery/Express or 620 Hellboy, simply and cheaply. Opens up a whole 'nuther world of "Big Guns".

Maybe it's a rifle whose time has come.

Luck

Benelli's pump and semi autos share the same locking mechanism. Actually, what differentiates each other are two springs, inertia and bolt return springs.
The new Benelli Super Vinci is another candidate for the .600 African, I suppose.

Lefteris
www.europeancartridgeunlimited.com

Have you heard of anyone doing such a conversion to the Benelli, Lefteris, or even contemplating it??

Anyone else??

What about the pressure limit/proof for the Benelli?

Guess it would boild down to those who like shucking and those who just like pulling the trigger as to which action type to use.

I just seems like such an obvious thing to do now that I think about it...I can't think why it hasn't happened already with all the "outsidetheenvelope thinkers" out there today looking for "new" things to do.

Probably has already been thought of, just nothing done.

The thought of having a semi-auto rifle equal to the 600 Jeffery, spitting 600-900 gr bullets at a very high rate of speed really gets my juices flowing.

Might need to add some weight to the shotgun to help out the shoulder.

Delusions of Grandeur or S$M need for pain...or...what?

Luck

Ed was working on a Kahn semi auto shotgun.
He rebarreled it for his 585 HE. I dont know how far along he got. The Bennelli is stronger than the Kahn in my opinion.

Cheers, John

FOOBAR,
The purpose of the .600 African is not to convert a 12ga shotgun into a .600 NE. Instead, to travel a .620 bullet at maximum velocity at standard shotgun pressures by only changing the barrel.
We already make 900grain slugs that develope 1500f/s at 15000psi loaded in 3.5" plastic hulls. Recoil is very controlable for a seasoned shooter. Using a brass case I think that 1700f/s could be achieved at THE SAME PRESSURES.
12ga shotguns manufactured under CIP specs are proofed at 1370bar (19865psi) although, recently, some shotgun makers (like Fabarm) proof their 12 & 20 gauge shotguns at 1630bar (23635psi).
I really don't know if anyone else have been tried something similar.

Lefteris
www.europeancartridgeunlimited.com

I understand...I was just opening the envelope a bit...and wondering...old timey wildcatters like me can't help but wonder "What if....".

Thanks for the CIP info.

You too, John...I will do a search for that thread. Not much of a jump from 0.585 to 0.620.

Luck

My Khan action is almost as strong as the rotary
bolt 12 gauges as its locking lug pivots from the
front so it can't unlock on firing. It is
set up for 3.5" cases, but didn't come with a bull barrel.

If it was 12ga like NEF Ultra, IE, just needs heavy barrel, it
would be a 25,000 psi 12ga slug gun with RMC brass.

I run my 585HE at 35-40,000 or more, so it would
handle that 600 short necked brass cartridge
or a 20 gauge brass at 25,000 fine.Ed

FOOBAR,
Imagine that. A 12ga shotgun platform firing the .600 African, with a properly made barrel, what a close range stopping "tool" will be. An easy carry fast handling repeater with confidence to have on hands under worst conditions.
There is a reason that so many rifle cartridges exist and only a few shotgun gauges. Short range effectiveness.
One gun for everything. At close range at least.
Michel458 did a lot of enlightened work about .620 slug penetration, at various velocities, some months ago.

Lefteris
www.europeancartridgeunlimited.com

I looked at a Benneli Super Nova tactical yesterday and don't see why a 3.5 inch brass case like the ones I make from .50BMG brass, but maybe with a steel threaded rim would not work through that action easily. If necessary the ejection port could be easily milled out for a little more clearance by CNC. A 900 gr .620 bullet in a sabot would be a very formidable cartridge. The only concern is that gun is awfully light and recoil would be formidable. I'd like more barrel length and a muzzle brake too. From my NEF experiments, I ran out of velocity because I needed more barrel length for a better burn. In fact The NEF ran out of steam even with the Full length 12GaFH case at 1800fps with a 1000 gr Darwin. However if you can get 1700fps out of that Benneli I think that it would be a unbelievably versatile gun for all close range dangerous game except maybe Ele. I would not feel undergunned with that thing! -Rob

That's the problem...I CAN imagine what a "stopping" tool this would make...but I haven't been able to quite get there, but I'm looking at all the possibilities...I know what the old "punkin" ball slugs are capable of even in their relatively weak loadings...and just how effective and destructive a semi-auto shotgun is at close range...remember the now scarce and controlled "Streetsweeper"? And now large capacity drums are available for the Sagia shotguns.

Loaded with Dixie Slugs Terminators at about the same pressure and velocity level as the 600 African, but with a 750 gr 12 ga slug, I don't have to tell many just what can happen if you turn loose a semi...ALL my 12 ga shotguns are loaded with those rounds, alternated with Bills Tri-balls, one at each door and one next to the bed.

I have a 13# 12GaFH AND three ~7.5 to 9# "light weight" shotguns I've tested loads in, Rem 870, Mossy 500 and 535 using their rifled slug barrels...not to the extent Rob or Ed have...an I can tell you that the recoil a 1000 gr cast lead slug produces even at the lower end of the velocity spectrum...in ANY of those platforms it totally brutal...A load that the NEF handled relatively easily, caused all 3 of the other shotguns to jump out of my hands...almost...that's with gloves and sticky wraps on the stocks.

I don't have the capacity to do much more than have a 20 ga barrel fitted to my 12Ga USH, buy a 20 ga USh or do a longer stub barrel...that decision will come after the holidays.

If the DD problem could be addressed on the cartridge level rather than the weapon level, I would definitely go forward with the 600 African...but not if I have to register the rifle as a "DD".

Ed; Are the Khan shotguns being imported that you know of? I've seen a few on the auction sights but can't seem to find anything on the net that isn't a few years old.

Fitting a relatively heavy .620 barrel to a Benelli, using Robs cases and adding a bit more weight to the stock to get the weight up and keep a good balance, to dampen the recoil would be the way to go I think. As it is that recoil level pretty much negates a quick second, third, fourth and fifth shot that the auto platform has on tap.

After running some scenarios through QL, I'm seeing the "dimenishing returns" thing happening. The 600 African case at 2.5" is an excellent way to go, but going much higher in case volume adds the extra amount of powder to the recoil problem, whereas in the 20 ga 3" you can get the same performance with less powder and less recoil.

Going much larger in case volume might add additional velocity/energy, but at a major cost in recoil level.

If the shooter/rifle can handle the recoil, then by all means go as far as possible.

It would be very nice and maybe the next step in a commercial venture if the Benelli or any other suitable semi-auto/pump shotgun OR rifle could be converted to a .620 cal at a reasonable price, considering the cost of any custom .620 cal rifle...maybe just doing a quick change replacement barrel so the OEM shotgun is still usable...I'm trying to put ideas into the minds of those with the tools and abilities...

This might just be a "thing" waiting to happen...or not...who knows until it happens.

If I had the "tools" I would be all over this like white on rice ... at least to prove/disprove/evaluate the cost/usability/feasability ... after all once the design code is proved and the first functional barrel produced, all you have to do is....

Now if I could just hit the Lotto...all my problems would vanish...except old age...and I would be in the middle of doing it instead of just blowing smoke up a skirt and wishing.

Luck

Foobar- I can't imagine it would be that hard to take a Benneli barrel, cut off the extension and thread it to hold a .620 heavy barrel. Monoblock style. I have not looked at the Benneli barrels yet but CNCing a barrel extension ready for a heavier barrel can't be that hard to do either. You then need to chamber it for your 12ga-.620 necked cartridge. Not that big a deal but now your in the DD world and need to get it Registered and approved.
I kinda like the idea of just screwing on a heavier/ larger diameter and longer 12 ga barrel to the barrel extension and going with a 3.5 inch 12 Ga FH BMG cased / 900 gr -.620 sabot. If I could get 18KPSI safely on the std Benneli barrel, maybe no need to even do anything. Anybody got some pics of the Benneli Super Nova or Vinci barrel extension. Am I barking up the wrong tree?-Rob

Rob, that gun is way to light.
I loaded up some Lightfield 3 1/2 slugs and it didn't go to well.
A man should not have to take our his teeth to shoot a gun. The damn recoil was knocking my upper plate loose with every shot
Maybe I need better teeth???????????????

So who makes a Heavy rifled barrel for a Supernova???

Cheers, John

I've got a spare ER SHAW 12 ga Rifled barrel thats pretty darn heavy. Its a straight cylinder barrel a little over 1" in diameter. Pac-Nor made the ones for my 12GaFH double and they only took a few weeks. I think they ended up a little under an inch at the muzzle once profiled. I can always figure out how to add some weight, but I prefer my hunting guns light!
Recoil doesn't deter me., Kabooms do though!-Rob

Rob, at least you can keep your teeth in your head....LOL

Cheers, John

Remington sells a heavy barrel 870 pump slug gun but its a 3 inch.
I know there is a 3 1/2 inch 870 duck and turkey gun.
Do all 870 12 ga. barrels interchange at the reciever.
In other words:
Can you take the heavy slug barrel, extend the chamber to 3 1/2 and mount it on an 870 3 1/2 reciever????

Be just my luck that the 870 reciever is junk. I've never owned one. I've had a Winchester model 12 for 45 years. Had it rebuilt once...lol

Cheers, John

I have the Khan weighted to 13 lbs
with the weight that the thick barrel
adds and lead in the butt.Has a decent pistol
grip, not bad shooting at all. Only 3.5" Khans I've seen.
are ones on GB and maybe other sites.
And the first one from grandson.I have 2nd one
that I left as 3.5" 12ga regular barrel to test
heavy plastic case smoothbore loads to see what is
possible in regular barrels and autos.
I also have a different one with regular weight
rifled barrel for testing plastic cases..Ed

Rob,
I think that the most cost effective solution to add a "little brother" to your 12gaFH full length guns is to have a Benelli Supernova with the Comfortech stock and a Badger Defense rifled barrel with 3.5" chamber. Benelli does not make 3.5" chambered barrels for their 3.5" receivers, only 3" and chrome plated.
Overall loaded cartridge length must be kept at 80.00mm (3.150") for the shells to cycle through the action. With a little gunsmithing COL could be lengthened about .040".
More gun weight, than as it comes from the factory, is not needed. I am sure you can easily shoot it fast and effeciently even with quick follow up shoots.
I have some US 900 slugs (.629" brass slug, 900grain, in a 12ga sabot) if you want to try. They are designed to be used in fully rifled barrels and I think you could safely start them at about 1700f/s using brass cases (1500f/s is what we get with plastic 3.5" hulls).

Lefteris
www.europeancartridgeunlimited.com

FOOBAR,
Some"slugs" to consider for your HD shotguns. Easy to make with off the shelf components and very effective while at the same time overpenetration is greatly reduced compared to standard slugs. If you wish I could send you assembly details.
[IMG=http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/9942/p1010016ag.th.jpg][/IMG]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Lefteris
www.europeancartridgeunlimited.com

Thanks all for the info, and

Thanks, Lefteris, but not needed...I have a couple hundred slugs of differing weights, shapes, and OD's plus a bunch of sabots and cases from my 12GaFH project I still haven't worked through...and your 12ga "boolits" are on my order list when the holidays are over and I get flush again. I will contact you then.

Rob...there are probably several ways to get this job done...It's so new to me in thought that I haven't even looked at a Benelli other than online to see just how/what way would be simpler and easiest...I need to get one in my hands with a caliper handy to get the proper perspective. Only one dealer in town with Benellis and I don't recall seeing any 20 ga's...

Ed...I checked GB, GA and AA and only found a couple of references to already sold Khans...and I've looked at several 20 ga OU and SS smoothbores for possible usa as a "double rifle" but the wall thickness of all I looked at pretty much eliminated anything other than standare pressure loads.

I've started the project research into what is and isn't available used/new and what is interchangeable. The DD thing stopped any 600 African thoughts, but the 20ga is proceeding. I will contact Rem to see if the 20 ga, 20" rifled barrel can be swapped into my 870 and what other parts might need to be swapped...mag tube possibly...I've NEVER seen a 20 ga 870 in any form....and the same with Benelli as to interchangeability. Finding a good used 12ba Benelli cheap enough and swapping in a 20 ga OEM barrel if possible or doing a monoblock/aftermarket barrel or whatever is required would get things rolling.

Hey I might get a raise after the first of the year and if so the NEF USH in one form or another, new rifle or new barrel will be first on the list. At least I can use Ed's data to get a sense of pressure/velocity/recoil level...

If I don't have 3 or 4 projects going at the same time I feel slighted somehow...I'm still working up 50-90 Sharps, 20 Practical, 6mm-284 loads and now this...glutton for punishment and not happy unless totally broke 1 week after payday.

Luck

I think O/Us are the best looking guns in the world.
Got a plan to get a ten that has heavy barrels.
Finding 12s with heavy barrel, no luck, but have
got one that I'm am sleeving down to my 585HE.

The Khan 3.5 inch can be stroked more, and I want to get extra
barrel mounting extensions sometime, and do switch barrel maybe for
20ga and 700H 3.25 sometime. Those extensions go in tight,
you don't have to shim them like some others..Ed

I agree...I've had a couple of 12ga sidebyside but never learned how to shoot them...always getting tail feathers or way out in front. I swear I could see quail just stop in midair, look back at me, shoot a squirt and laugh. Worse than mad seagulls puking and dumping on you.

Who does .620 barrels???...all I could find was PacNor...all the other barrel makers I usually use just go to 50 cal. A medium Palma would work just fine I think cut to 24-26" and leave ~0.825" muzzle OD, with about 3.5# added weight to help out.

Now if I could find a cheap 10ga NEF barrel to stub off...I just might get this thing off the ground.

Luck

FOOBAR,
Krieger, Lothar Walther.

Ed,
Have you checked the Marocchi Finnclassic 512?
http://www.marocchiarms.com/in...hp?sprache=0&menu=55

Lefteris
www.europeancartridgeunlimited.com

Thanks again, Lefteris...I didn't check Krieger...haven't used one of those barrels in a LONG time...way out of my price range...but did check LW. Largest I could find was .585 but I emailed them anyway just in case.

That Marocchia inertial style semi sounded very nice and the O/U's were beautiful...

Luck

That top slide lock is used in other brands, that I
assume the company makes. Even fancy some trap guns.

First is picture sectioned Explora case and slug, showing how
they kept weight down so that it could be stepped up in
speed in older doubles, with just short rifling section at muzzle,
that didn't have real heavy barrels. Second picture from Greener
book here, is of older 4 and 8 gauges.

Third picture shows steps of making 4bore case, one inch bore,
from 20mm. 2nd in picture is case with base turned and swaged
to size which leaves base smaller than rim, for rimmed case.
Then 3rd case has top expanded to take 1" diameter slug.
last shows the thickness and strength of finished case.

Testing factory 20ga Hastings sabot slug 3.5" hotrod loads, and
reloaded with 20ga SPW identical slugs, 390gr, goes about 2200
from 30" heavy barrel. Load was 75gr of 4759.
Factory is about 1900. For regular modern barrels you could
do with 65 gr and get about 2000.Ed

Lefteris- Benneli says their supernova tactical is chambered in 3.5. I looked at one and the barrel was marked 3.5 inch. Yup would love a rifled version. Have you tried the badger defense rifled barrel in 3.5 inch is it accurate? I've got a ton of 900 gr .620 bullets I made for the .600 ok. What type of sabot do you make?-Rob

Rob,
Sorry for the confusion.
What I meant in my previous post is "Benelli does not make 3.5" chambered FULLY RIFLED barrels for their 3.5" receivers, only 3" and chrome plated".
Only their smoothbore barrels are chambered for 3.5" hulls, when fitted in 3.5" receivers.
I have not tried Badger Defense barrels (they are not allowed here) but I have read good reports about them. They come with 1 in 26" twist (Benellis come with 1 in 28") and I suppose they could be ordered with 3.5" chambers and maybe a different (heavier) contour.
The sabots we make for fully rifled barrels are for .629" slugs and contoured so they lock the slug in place. They are designed to be used in plastic hulls but I don't see any reason they could not be used in brass cases as well.
Those are the US 740 & US 900 for fully rifled 12ga barrels.
[IMG=http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/1299/p1010001ts.th.jpg][/IMG]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Lefteris
www.europeancartridgeunlimited.com

Lefteris- Any way those sabots without the bullets can be imported into the USA? I could just mod my .620 G code program to make a .629 bullet. I'd love to see what that would do in a 3.5 inch brass case. -Rob

Rob,
PM sent.

Lefteris
www.europeancartridgeunlimited.com