FOOBAR,
In my childhood I tried the Blue Loc-Tite between scope and rings.
You certainly don't want to use it on a matte-finished scope.

The silicone peels off with my thumbnail, and a toothbrush and Gun Scrubber removes any molecular traces, even from a matte scope.

Do you use that sandpaper to remove the Loc-Tite from your scope and rings?

I sure hope you bolted those belly pans on.
The RTV was just filling gaps, making a gasket.

The silicone adhesive surely does help a scope stay put however, mainly by the tacky friction, even if only a few molecules thick after it is squeezed out on ring tightening, and it prevents any lubricants or moisture from getting between the scope and rings, even if it goes for a swim.

I suppose a continuous stream of Gun Scrubber directed at the edge of the ring for several hours might begin to penetrate and erode the silicone at the edge of the ring.

The silicone is easy to break apart when the rings are disassembled, screws removed.
Just like when you unbolt a belly pan and peel off the old gasket.

FOOBAR,
The silicone peels off easily enough for me.
The rings and scopes break apart easily enough for my fingers.
Gun Scrubber and a toothbush will loosen any traces left, wipe it off with a patch or paper towel.
You better not forget the bolts on those belly pans after you have peeled off the old gasket and made a new one with RTV.

I tried Blue LOC-TITE between scope and rings, in my childhood. No more.

We will absolutely have to differ here.
Just like we differ on the instrumental accuracy of our scales.

FOOBAR,
None of my scope installations is complete until I have some RTV between the scope and rings.
If they have been lapped perfectly beforehand, there is only a trace of the "gasket" but it is there, locking things tight and sealing out moisture and oil.

The Nightforce is a great scope and I've never broken one. The secret though is wide rings and lapping. Badger .50BMG rings are about 1" wide and if you lap em concentric and tighen the torx screws evenly and torqe em as directed that scope wont move period. Sometimes I leave a trace of the lapping cmpd on the rings and proceed as above. Even on matte scopes it doesnt leave a mar as things flat dont move. I follow the basic principal of OVERKILL whenever possible! -Rob

The 210F has a Picattiny rail on top of the reciever, I was think of either Optilock rings (picattiny base) in SS or the Barrett ExRings (if I can get them over here). The ExRings would help a lot in getting longer range elevation adjustment.

Sorry for the hijack but Rob, have you made aluminium bullets for the 600 OK?
I'm sure an aluminium version of your bore rider would be a good squirrel load. Maybe your flat nose for PG
Great for plinking and you already have the program for it

Here is picture of the Mauser GEHA shotgun I
setup with an Savage 210 rifled barrel. Used a Savage
plastic stock also. It is setup with the original 3"
chamber. I have many guys who want ideas and slug/load
combination's tested in regular rifled slug barrels, so
this is the one. Most testing will be 3" plastic cases.
Barrel 24" long, .93" regular slug size muzzle diameter.
The GEHA was originally converted from 98 Mausers in
Germany in the 20s, by reaming out all the front lug seats
and using the rear safety lug. I added a second rear
bearing lug and it handles 15,000 psi loads ok.
The cases come out with the weight of the bolt.
That will be max pressure used in it, with that slug gun
barrel thickness. Example load is 115gr of RE17 in 3"
plastic case, with 520 gr Lyman slug at 1850 plus fps.
This load expands the plastic case basecups about .005",
in comparison, a REM factory Buckhammer expands .010".
And we have over 300 fps more velocity.Ed

OK, dog...we all do things differently and have a need to prove "something"...ain't no thang.

Points up the fact and the proof of a study I read many years ago in "Psychology Today"...just the same phenomonon...the need of humans AND other primates...to continually defend a position whether it be after buying a new car or a new suit coat, a wife, the kids doings, ad infinitum, ad nauseum...doesn't matter what the object.

And...I didn't know we differed on the weigh scales thing...I just pointed out what I had learned AND what was printed in the instuction pages of one scale and the observations pointed out by other users of digital scales on other forums...again...ain't no thang...maybe I didn't phrase my presentation in such a manner as to be understood completely.

This is getting into the realm of a pizzing contest which to me is a waste of time so I will bow to your high arcing stream...I'm just happy when I can get a good steady dribble going.

RTV silicone adhesive should hold up well if exposed to
It should not be used to join parts that have prolonged exposure to gasoline.

Testing some .660" diameter 630 gr hard cast
slugs in the red WIN wadcup in 3.5" plastic
case. Tested in rifled long barrel in 12ga
NEF about 2100 fps. Greg Sappington makes
these. They are hollow point. 3" group at
50yds, peep sight, bad eyes. I also fired
a couple to see if they'd work in my long
brass cased 16GA FH shown in the picture.
They work ok, so Greg has a double duty
slug.They'd work in 16ga plastic also.
The 16ga was held at 1500 as the barrel
isn't heavy, on Stevens/Revelation 16ga. Ed

Boomstick- Good point! Nobody ever asked for an Al 600Ok. It would be pretty interesting on Baboons! I just love shooting Baboons! Probably because I'm not allowed to shoot their human counterparts. Gotta clean em out of the gene pool before they breed.-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Boomstick- Good point! Nobody ever asked for an Al 600Ok. It would be pretty interesting on Baboons! I just love shooting Baboons! Probably because I'm not allowed to shoot their human counterparts. Gotta clean em out of the gene pool before they breed.-Rob

Glad you see the wisdom in the A-OK rounds (Aluminium Over Kill) would be a cinch for you to do and make the OK a plainsgame gun too!
Let me know how fast those suckers can fly!

If you use the same powder load as you would a copper one it would be interesting to know the velocity difference would be.

I can get a aluminum cored jkt slug of 360gr that
RG Henson makes to 4000 fps with fast ball powder,
At about 40,000 psi in the 12GA FH Savage bolt gun,
with the long case..Rob can go higher(65k) pressures
in the Borchardt.Ed

That is 12,793 FPE!!!!

Ed beat me to it, but I'd agree on 4000fps or so with the right powder. I would guess they would be fine to 200yrds or so just like the aluminum .30 cals Gerard talked about about 18 months or so ago.. -Rob

RMC 3.85" brass has arrived.
Actually measures 3.8525" +/- .0005",
but my calipers could have instrumental error.

$9.20 per piece.
Still less expensive than 700 H&H Nitro Express brass, ain't it? ... and bigger ...

left to right, 12ga brass:

2.5" Magtech "CBC 12" cowboy brass
2-5/8" RMC
2-7/8" RMC
3.5" RMC
3.85" RMC
3.85" Nohbozo
3.85" RMC



Now you can see the comparison between wall thickness at the case mouths of Magtech vs. RMC.
Also the very thin balloon head base of the Magtech case, that uses pistol primers.
RMC is very thick at the base and uses 209 primers.

The Nohbozo brass with screw-on rim has neck wall thickness similar to the Magtech, but 50BMG head thickness.

The RMC 3.85" is too thick in the neck to fit in Nohbozo chambers.

It works great in standard shotgun chamber lengthened to 3.85", with Dave Kiff's PT&G reamer.

Reckon I'm the only recipient of this 3.85" RMC brass?
It grips the .729"/1085-grain Nohbozo Brass Double-Foster Darwins snugly just as it comes.
I will have to expand it by .001" to keep from shaving lead from my .730"/1372-gr Lead Triple-Foster Darwins.

If the 3.5" RMC brass holds 322 grains of water,
then the 3.85" RMC brass will have a gross water capacity of about ... 359 grains.

Set-up for 209 primer's RIP ..??

Good looking stuff!!

!FIRST POST!

But...um...yeah

Anything on the Savage 220 anyone?

Are ou referring to Savages 20ga rifled shotgun. Did they
do it with 3.5" chamber like the Hastings barreled NEF
20ga. How thick is the barrel muzzle. I haven't seen one
to measure. They missed the boat on the 12ga one by
not going with a heavier barrel like NEF ultras are.Ed

Yes it is the 20ga rifled bolt-gun. It has a 3" chamber & a crap barrel (Looks real thin like the 12ga). I was curious as to the possibilities....say 20gaFH, some kind of .585, or something else.

Others have done the long 20ga idea with
3.5" brass cases from RMC.Nef makes heavy barreled
20 ga 3.5" chambered gun. And Hastings 3.5"
factory slug loads. The Savage will handle
the Hastings ok and some of our slow powder
loads if not too high.You can put about any caliber
barrel on it from 585, 600NE, etc.The 3 lug bolt
will handle about anything..........Its is shame
about skimpy 12ga barrels as they wouldn't have had
to go all the way to NEF Ultra size(1.070"), just to
1.00"-1.020" muzzle like the Encore 12ga.
And on 20ga make barrel 12hga size. Thes slug loads
recoil a bit, and why not an extra pound to help.Ed

Tested my 499HE in a NEF. Loads I didn't have to
full length resize the case, only top 1/4 of case.
325gr at 2600, 500gr at 2150.
In NEF got both weight bullets 300 fps faster,
still extracted very easy.I got reamer. Just run it
in NEF 500 chamber and you got a blaster. And add
a little weight and thick pad to the gun.
This sort of is my 32ga FH .You know a straight long
brass case with a rim. Ed

ED- Now thats an econo blaster for sure. Ca Legal too. You gonna engrave a picture of Dianne Feinstein on the Butt? -Rob

I don't know if I'd deface the gun with her ugly mug,
but if I could do metalwork I'd put a picture
of Elmer on the sides of the receiver. Ed

Ed- Hows the falling block coming?-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
ED- Now thats an econo blaster for sure. Ca Legal too. You gonna engrave a picture of Dianne Feinstein on the Butt? -Rob

Think about that Rob - does anyone really want that face against their shoulder? Worse yet, what if it left a DF - like bruise?

Expanding the versatility of the 12GaFH:
It might work in an 1880's vintage Gatling gun.

Surely Rob will have to build a Gatling gun now.
Should be a piece of cake for Rob, after "Dos Diablos" is finished.

Here is a comparison of the 700 H&H NE 3.5" to the .750 Gatling,
with the 12GaFH-RMC-3.85" max dimensions in red
(from Ken Howell's book, ... CUSTOM CARTRIDGES ... page 426:

RIP- I've been planning to build a full sized Gatling gun for years. I was going for a 45-70 but a 12GaFH one would be really NASTY! Where is my Dillon Aero catalog!-Rob

On the falling block I've had to wait on a
a cutting disc setup for my mill. Putting that
on machine now. With no problems, should have
hammer,trigger, extractor,firing pin done in a
few weeks and the gun firing.

Yep a 12GA FH Gatling would be really neat.
I think if hand crank, no registration is needed.Ed

Finally an 870 with longer 1" muzzle barrel. Barrel
is heavier than most all add on pump gun barrels,
and it is 25.5" long, Something that would really get
it on with the slower powder loads we have.
Rifled barrel is solid mount in receiver, scoperail solid mount.

It is the REM 870 SPS Super Slug Gun.
Nice long heavy barrel, and thumbhole stock for
handling recoil better. Plastic case 3" slug loads of ours that
gets 600gr slugs to 1800-1900 fps, work great in this.Ed

Here is a novel slug idea, hard plastic support ring on
the front, and a locked base and seal. Metal never
touches the bores. Work in great rifled and fair in
smooth barrels. These are steel, but copper would do
great also.Could be made heavier and different points.
On the net- ammunitiontogo.com
This one is about 500 gr.Ed

Now thats one damn weird looking slug. I can see what they are trying to do, but you would think a more BC friendly shape would be the go.

looks like a slug from lyman's mold or a winchester bri slug

Slug could be cast or turned with grooves
on the front and back to put the plastic
pieces on. Just finding the plastic would let
a whole bunch of guys cast and save som bucks.

The one shown with flat nose would
do great damage to big game, but a truncated more
streamlined nose could be done also. The locked on
base and seal makes it front heavy like a Brenekkee
KO, so it can work fair in smooth barrels.Ed

Ed and Rob:

I've read the thread all the way through, and you've mentioned twist and barrel length, but now that you have more experience with the FH I'd like your opinions on an optimal barrel configuration.

Assuming I can get a barrel made any way I want from Pac-Nor or Shaw.

Assuming barrel length isn't a consideration.

Assuming full-boogie 12gaFH ammo on BMG cases.

1) what would you suggest for the number of grooves and depth? 5 or 7 grooves at .003 or .004"? Something completely different? (paper patched cast lead bullets) ER Shaw says their rifled 12ga barrels are .005".

2) Ed said a 1:20 twist seemed to work okay with a 730g bullet. Still sound about right, or would it be worth trying a slower twist? ER Shaw says their barrels are 1:28.

3) barrel length? Ed was using 31", recommended at least 32", said a 36" would be nice.

Barrel length 28" for average guy is perfect,
minimum I like is 31". But I'm a long barrel nut.

The twist for 1000 gr and heavier 1 to 20-22.
Twist for 720 gr and lighter are 1 to 28-35.
The NEF and Savage are 1 to 35.
Few other slug guns are 1-28.

Grooves .005" deep like Pacnor makes are perfect.
8 grooves like the NEF and Savage has works good.
6-7-8-9 grooves will do ok.Ed

Thanks, Ed!

Optimum barrel length should be 32 inches. 26-30 should work fine. I used 1:20 twist in my Pac Nor barrels. 0.005 deep rifling is fine. I have a shaw barrel and it looks pretty good. however when I talked to them last year they said I'd have to wait a year for a barrel so I went to Pac Nor and had two in 2 months. You cant beat Pac-Nor barrels.-Rob