Yep, Pacnor is best for quality barrels 550cal and up
and best for delivering big bores in reasonable
time, now that they have all the buttons and
reamers right. And they aren't afraid to do
barrels in larger outside diameters for heavier
guns to match big calbers.
Some places take forever on making barrels in big
bores, some places are never on big bores, even when
you pay for tooling and they have a pile of
barrel stock on hand..Ed

You might check out McGowen Barrels also, http://www.mcgowenbarrel.com/. It took 6 weeks for my 50 cal, CM, #7, 1.25" x 26" to arrive. Standard price for a contoured 1.25" x 26" BBl is right at $200 shipped...check out their site for prices.

PacNor has 1.35" blanks most of the time if you want something slightly larger OD than "normal" sized barrels and less than 1.5" OD.

Last quote(two months ago) from PacNor for a 1.35" x 26" 50 cal #7 was $255 plus shipping.

Both barrel makers are excellent.

Here is picture of the US-S slugs in a lineup
with other 12ga slugs I'm testing. Lefteris was
kind enough to send me a few of each weight
to test. They are the 3 in second row on the right.
They are 570gr, 700 gr, 970 gr. I tested 570gr in
3.5" plastic so far. At 1900 in the NEF rifled, and
in the 1887 smooth barrel, got 3" group on both.
With peep sights an bad eyes.So the US-S slug
is great in smoothbores, as good as rifled. My
smoothbore on the 1887 is .723" bore at muzzle,
a nice tight fit for smooth slugs. The smooth
bores Lefteris tested them with are .722" muzzle,
and they already killed 5 wild boars, one shot
kills with the 570gr slug. Also if anyone wants a
heavy smoothbore new 12ga barrel, .722" muzzle,
1.375" outside diameter to make a great slug
gun with slugs like these, and others like the
Brenekkes, I have spare one. It is 30", chrome
moly alloy, super strong, nice an shiny inside
and out. Plenty of metal for any contour.
Shipping and all 170.

Boomie asked me about a belted 12ga FH
If you straightened out the present 700HE
made on bmg brass you'd have very little taper.
Its base is .775, you could go .780", but when
.729" slug is in 12GA FH case, mouth is about .770"
He was suggesting putting on a belt by rebating
rim a little and making small step on the thick
part of the LC bmg cases and threading on a brass
piece and turning it to make a belt of about
,820-830" diameter with a belt headspace length
similiar to one I have on my 700HE cases. That way
the base could be 7.99- .800" of the original bmg case
and there'd be good. taper.About .015" per side.
I will show prototype later in a picture by
showing a Boyes case I have here that I expanded to
12ga. It has same base as bmg but a .050" belt.
I'll take belt down a little. If I could have found
Boyes cases in volume without paying 20 bucks each
I'd have set up one years ago when I got a few
of the Boyes cases. I want to use them, SO, just to be
able to shoot the 4 cases I have I will rig up
a belt step in my Savage and have the case go all the
way same as 12ga, as I have extractor cut in the barrel,
and I could still fire the rimmed 12GA FH in chamber
and extract both ok. Where the metal would be removed
for belt, the 12GA FH case wouldn't expand any
way as it is plenty heavy in that spot, where the
LC brass has the real heavy radius. These cases
based on the Boyes case with original drawn, hardened, rim,
fit in BMG holder and will go in and more importantly
come of the die with ease..Ed

Having a belted as well as a rimmed high power 12 gauge is just more fun to the pot.

Might need some paperwork but a 12 bore rimless with decent headspacing and taper is a pretty fun concept.

Reduce the rim and make the step for the threads for the belt washer all in one step on a lathe. Add the threads, screw the belt on them HOOOOAAAA 12 Bore rimless!

Even if altered BMG cases cost $5 a pop that is a helova lot of bang for the buck with the cheap slugs

Isn't this why the PH action was made???

It'll take as much work as doing the 12ga FH,
as the work of adding that belt piece with fine
thread up against a small shoulder you machine
is quite a bit and machining it to a belt
dimension, more like 12-15 case.And when you
machine you have follow the groove contour.
And you still have to fireform or expand them.

I cheated for prototype using a belted Boyes
case, I had here in 12ga. Just reduced belt to .825".
And I have found a total of 9 here.
4 were original, 5 were expanded to 585, 620,
700, 16ga and 12ga. They have berdan primer and
I'll just drill it out and bush first couple to shotgun
primer now that we have RE17. And Alliant in
a while will have 3 more powders like RE17, one faster,
and 2 slower.

To use the PH, you have to enlarge inside of
reciever(I didn't have to do that with my 700H) a little
and feed rails.And have an extra bearing lug on
heavy bolt handle base.Which I did on my 700
as it is a test gun. A belted 12ga may be easier on
the Savage like I'm going to do.And on down the road if I'm
still going there will be a heavy wall Savage reciever
built, so that we can run 60k pressures.

I wish we could find 2-3 hundred Boyes like the
numbers of the straight BMG primer
cases I got. But I can't paying collectors prices.Ed

Waiting for pics

I thought the whole purpose of the 12GFH idea was to beat the "over 50 caliber" rule by using an accepted "gauge" as the head and barrel stamp.

This is a playing around project.
I ain't gonna register it or put a lot into
it without a way to make cases easy from
bmg brass or find a barrel of brass like my
Boyes cases..The need for CNC for speed
and precision in belting a bmg case,
makes it costly.

Somebody else can register it,
but if they did,it would be best not use the 12ga
term, so as not get the Tech Branch computer
in a tizzy. We have 729 Jongman's from Australia,
so maybe this will be 730 or 729 Boomer or something.
If I could have found a supply of cases years
ago when I got those few Boyes cases, the would have
been a 730HE.Ed

CCMDOC-Exactly- I dont see the value of the belt at all, but it is what it is.-Rob

It is just a one of a kind I'm doing, as I need
a test gun, to test smoothbore slugs in tight bore.
And to use the few cases I got. It will be
just a 12ga long case, short case, firing gun,
with slight mod to chamber and fire this one also.
Barrel will be stamped 12ga and take regular 12ga cases.

Bretts 835 airgun with full length back-bored barrel
has chamber big enough from the factory, that if
I made belt down to .820" I could chamber it in his
sloppy factory chamber.And probably fire it.
We call it his airgun as 12ga slugs ride on air in his
10 ga size full length backbore.ED

quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:
I thought the whole purpose of the 12GFH idea was to beat the "over 50 caliber" rule by using an accepted "gauge" as the head and barrel stamp.

This would not be a 12 GFH
It would be a 12 bore rimless

Think of it as a larger 550 magnum
Shotgun bore but belted rimless design

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
CCMDOC-Exactly- I dont see the value of the belt at all, but it is what it is.-Rob

Yes, it is what it is.
I have moved on to applying principles learned here to the delightful little 20 Gauge.
The 12 Gauge From Hell is more fun than I can handle properly at full throttle.
The 20 Gauge Hellboy should be more manageable.
No hybrid chambers and brass for me.
Straight shotgun Nitro Express thrashers, 700 and 600, .729 NE 3.85" and .615 NE 3.5".

DRG says: Kiss my grits!

The belted one is just what it is, 9 cases I can use.
Due the fact that you can't make a completed belt piece
in a machine because finished is too thin to hold, where our
12ga FH rims could be completeely done first then screwed on, you
have to make belt piece larger diameter, then put it on, and
do an extra machine job beyond making a step for the belt on the base
and fine threading it......... And turning a step on the base
and fine threading the base for belt will take 2-3 times
as long also, compared just turning off rim and threading stub for
12GA FH rim piece. With cost for doing 12GA FH 12-15 bucks,
the belting job is going to run cost to 20 bucks.

I do the Boyes case in 3 min on my case spinner/lathe. So maybe
for this to be viable idea, a bunch of guys have got to
scour gunshows, gun papers, etc, and round up Boyes cases for
18-20 bucks, and maybe they are out there hiding in volumne,
and I'll fix them for 50 cents or show others how on a lathe.

The reason I say they may be hiding in volumne somewhere,
is in looking for another elusive case we looked at on here,
a little birdie called and said he bought one of the belted
CAWS cases from a pile of them on a gunshow table, at a high
price. And collectors there were buying them also.........
So who knows down the road what could be found or built if some
really want to spend the time/money..Ed

The 700gr US-S slug in smoothbore, at 2000
in a 3.5" brass case, got a 2.5" 3 shot group
at 50 yds. Great slugs they have come up with
for smoothbores.
We on here talking about getting 10 rifled
barrels made, here is a picture of my 4.1" long
brass 10ga I made from 50cal Russian by putting
on a rim like the 12GA FH is built.Just a prototype,
third in picture. Later I'll get RMC to make some,
as it is much easier way. First in picture is
16GA FH 3.5" long, 2nd 12GA FH 3.85" long,
3rd 10GA FH 3.1" long, 4th 8GA FH 4.3" long.Ed

Here goes-You AR guys get a days headstart.

Seeing as how I have a second Savage 210 bolt gun
that I switch a 12GA FH barrel on, with other
barrels(700HE, and 12GA FH smooth), plus my 12GA FH NEF, and
1887, and various other 12 ga test guns......
And have much to do and spend on 585s.700s, 8,4,2 gauges.....

I'm selling the Savage 210 bolt gun 12GA FH, with
chamber for the 3.85" case. Now has 28" Pacnor
barrel and Savage original weighted stock.
Barrel cost 350 bucks and was little longer but since
I am putting it back on an original Savage stock
to sell it, the 28" barrel length looks and balances
perfect. Savage stock has thick pad and is weighted
so that gun is about 17 lbs.
Savage 210s now are 550 bucks. 4 long brass cases
and 10 715gr, 10 870gr, ans 10 970 gr slugs included.
Original Savage stock, 28" Pacnor barrel, 750 bucks.
Pic shows it in thumbhole stock but it will be in
an original Savage stock. The Savage stocks are
much stronger than same conventional style wood ones.
Second pic shows it in conventional heavy stock
that I had it in befor it was in thumbhole.
Buyer pays shipping extra. Or MI guys can get it here.
First with the money pledged gets it. 750 bucks.

This is first Savage action/barrel done in 12GA FH, 2nd one
done in any gun, with Rob's Borchardt first one.Ed

Now THAT is a deal!

Boomie- you better buy ed's gun!-Rob

RGB,

I wouldn't say that if I were you. That would make you and Boomie like second cousins of the Big Boomer Club and you'd have to put him up for weekend shoots!!

Rich

Well we need more folks in the BB Club.
Sometimes it hard for guys to get them built.
Here is away for someone, all ready made
in long case 12GA FH, and cases and some slugs.
It is now in Savage stock and better length
barrel for balance without being too short
to lose a lot of velocity. The gun nuts here
like the the more traditional stock look
and 28" barrel. It'll still shoot 12,000 plus
ft lb loads ok.Ed.

I just want Boomie to finally own a real Big Bore. Ed's gun is a GREAT OPPORTUNITY. If he bought one Id even teach him how to shoot it.-Rob

quote:

If he bought one Id even teach him how to shoot it.-Rob

Does your plane have the range to get to rural Mississippi ...?? (Boomers new home)

BOOMER's

Boomer could slap a surplus Ma Deuce barrel on that Savage and chamber it for "12 Gauge/.510 Bore Triple Headspacer,"
sort of like taking the 12GaFH back to its origins, a rimmed 50BMG.
Could make a double-necker-rimmed cartridge insted of the third headspacing on the case mouth, thin that neck.
Could resemble something from NASA:






DRG says: "Kiss my liberal grits!"

Feeling the big bore love
Rob... Would love to get some range time with you and the 12ghf. Shot some 12 gauge slugs today but was out of a Rem 870 and not at 3000 fps :-/
Would love to get some 12gfh action on video. And training from the Jedi Master
I guess the 470 IS a medium bore

Well shotgun with RE17 load as taken a buck..
It was turbo1889 on Castboollits forum,
with a 20ga using max load of 100gr Re17
with fullbore 20 ga 1oz slug. Over a
150 yard shot..Someone get my cannon
above, and if you want it will fire
shorter cases also.Barrel is like new.Ed

Ed, you did not tell me when I bought your cannon that I would pace around all day waiting for the UPS man to deliver it and dream about shooting it all night


Looking forward to it.

Matthew

It is on the way to Matthew yesterday. Please take
pictures of it for us when you get it from your
ffl guy.

Here is picture of the 12ga belted cases I made to
test a few loads in. I made it from 55cal belted
Boys case. I reduced belt diameter a little and left
the base the same, which is 12ga size.In picture
first is 55cal, second expanded to .620", third
expanded to .660"(16ga), then two 12 ga ones.
Next is our 12GA FH, and then a 12ga 3.5"
plastic case.A little work in long 12ga FH chamber
with a tool for belt step and it chambers. Ed

The rimless 12 bore lives!
Goodonya Ed!

quote:

Originally posted by hubel458:
It is on the way to Matthew yesterday. Please take
pictures of it for us when you get it from your
ffl guy.

Here is picture of the 12ga belted cases I made to
test a few loads in. I made it from 55cal belted
Boys case. I reduced belt diameter a little and left
the base the same, which is 12ga size.In picture
first is 55cal, second expanded to .620", third
expanded to .660"(16ga), then two 12 ga ones.
Next is our 12GA FH, and then a 12ga 3.5"
plastic case.A little work in long 12ga FH chamber
with a tool for belt step and it chambers. Ed

Here is a picture of US-S brass slug after going through
3 foot of wood slabs in a bundle. It has shed its plastic
base and it went through straight without tumbling.
This one is 570 gr fired at 2200 in RMC case, from NEF.
Also in picture is one with white sabot petals off, as it
would be in flight, before hitting target.Ed

Boomstick- The Saiga 12 with 20RTd drum is a real blast. Modified mine to the hilt and its one destructive weapon with slugs and OOB.
Sounds like MathewX bought Ed's gun. Man will your eyes be opened! I have some 1000gr Brass Darwins for the 12GaFH left from the last Run if anyone wants them.-Rob

64 pages!!!

Rob, I want them, check PM

Matthew

4bore work. Working on design of firing pin,
and waiting for parts now. Problem is getting
real small parts without CNC for bushed
firing pin with rebound spring. But it takes
time.

We will have swaged lead slugs
in a little while as my barrel is smooth. They
will be 1600gr hollowbase, when done,
a hundred of them at least.
Got wads and cards, shown in the picture with 4bore
cases and slugs. And my 2bore case for comparison
Also 12ga wads for comparison..Ed

Our cartridge work and experimenting got a nice
write up in # 470 Nov/Dec International Ammunition
Journal. Page 10-11 by Zach Weighman, a
cartridge collector and gun nut friend.

Got a guy just figured out BMG case rim, and for a rim
puts on 12ga high base cup from a plastic case. He turns
base/rim of bmg case about .008" and use JB Kwik to hold
it on. Pushes it on with press. He removes base cup with
heat gun from plastic cases,

He is using RE17, so shotgun primers will work, and he
puts bushing in case for primer. Has bushing reamed so
the primer pocket protrusion on the base cup goes up inside
tight, as he pushes on the base cup. It'll fire ok and to size it
do like I do, I push case into open top die, and push it
back out from the top with a rod and hammer. That
way the rim don't get bent up. He says it saves a lot of
time not having to make rim pieces.

We will have more info and pictures next few weeks.Ed

I tried a version of that approach many years ago. The problem was the pressed on rim came off whenever I tried to reload the case.-Rob

That is I why told him to push case out of
the dies.I got a high base cup loose here
this evening I took off a case and it looks like
by taking a little off bmg case and pop it
over the rim with JB in it and shrink it on
with the MEC super sizer.It can't come loose
in firing and if resizing push it out from the
top of the die. Gotta make a couple to look at.

I'll use the BMG straight primer cases and get
all the first sizing done with bmg shellholder
before I put 12ga base cup on. I have brass lamp
tubing for the bushing. It is threaded od and
the primer protrusion on the base cup, fits
inside of it tight. Interesting stuff.ED

I've found the most reliable way to resize cases is to screw off the rim, then use a el cheapo hydraulic press to size, then pop out the case with the press and prime it with one of my screw in primer seating tools. Then I screw the base back on. I never wreck a case that way.-Rob

Rob, I'm new here. Could you tell me a little about your screw in primers?

It is screw in primer tool The case with rim off
screws into it, and then it pushes in primer
to the exact debth. Shown earlier in the thread.Ed

Thanks Ed!

I had visions of a screw in bushing with a primer in it being seated with a spanner.

I made some change today that fix a couple of concerns I had about the press ons.

I'll email you a little later.