Rob...

wouldnt say 300 grain .5" flat nose stackers be a better anti engine block/personel projectile?

Boomstick- QUADRACONE is designed to be a Defense load with only short range penetration of sheet metal in mind. I've found conical points penetrate sheet metal better than FP's in fact. No lead is used in QUADRACONE as its a ECO friendly product! Each QUADRACONE projectile has a strategically placed hole drilled in it to effect the gyroscopic stabilization caused by the rifling which results in varying degrees of dispersion as well as emitting a high pitched sound that is terrifying!-Rob

Hmmm... I guess the angle would tear sheet metal as tthe flat nose would have to punch a hole... I see your "Point" here.

Can we get the sound on audio/video?

Hmmm... so is this like 4 pre expanded non deforming +P+ big bore handgun equivalent comming out of a plastic hulled shotgun shell. Lots of smack down!

Boomie-I doubt it would fit in a plastic case and leave enough room for powder. This is meant for the FL 12GaFH case.-Rob

Power outages continue sporadically here with thunderstorm winds ... not as bad as Oklahoma got lately.

The Quadracone load is "Special" cool.

I am going to drop back to 40-cal lead balls so as to have another use for .395" projectiles as buckshot.
Hornady makes the pure lead swaged .395" balls. I can cast them with a Lyman mould in harder alloy for tighter groups.
Call it "Five-Oh-Buck."
Not "Hawaii 5-0," rather "Hellfire 5-O" or OOOOO Buck.

American "ought" buckshot review:

0 buck: 32-cal

00 buck: 34-cal

000 buck: 36-cal

0000 buck: 38-cal

And now, with the 12gaFH
pushing the envelope as always,

00000 buck: 40-cal

And for further review, the smaller American buckshot enumeration:

1 buck: 30-cal
2 buck: 27-cal
3 buck: 26-cal
4 buck: 24-cal

And furthermore, to big-bore you to hell as in 12GaFH, the birdshot suitable for "squirrel loads from hell:"

FF: 23-cal
F: 22-cal
TT: 21-cal
T: 20-cal
BBB: 19-cal
BB: 18-cal
B: 17-cal
1: 16-cal
2: 15-cal
3: 14-cal
4: 13-cal
5: 12-cal
6: 11-cal
7.5: 9.5-cal (0.095")

I have patterned a 1.805-ounce load of 7.5-shot in 3.5-inch plastic hulls and found it to be "sweet to 60 yards" for squirrels.

Will be working up to 3.25-ounce of whatever buckshot and birdshot I can fit in a 12GaFH case, and making the 3.25-ounce lead slugs go faster ...

I am still awaiting my smoothbore 12GaFH and my NEF-er that is 50BMG-primer-capable and muzzle braked.

I shall report back on rifled and smoothbore Loads From Hell.

This whole thread is quite a Load From Hell.

QUADRACONE range report- DAMN ITS VICIOUS! The off-center holes cause good dispersion at 25-35 yrds. While the Cones remain spin stabilized! 4 distinct impacts covering a B27 target. Toyota cab sized pattern at 50-60yrds and they hit hard! No VERY HARD! Gotta find a car door to test penetration, but based on what I'm seeing, door mechanisms should not be a problem. This might also be one HELL of a wounded Leopard or Lion load although it might turn a Leopard trophy into Mush at close range. Boddington complains about the effectiveness of Buckshot on wounded Leopards, but I'll bet he'd be impressed with a Quadracone load!
Works better than I thought.-Rob

Great when things go as planned by a mad scientist

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
QUADRACONE range report- DAMN ITS VICIOUS! The off-center holes cause good dispersion at 25-35 yrds. While the Cones remain spin stabilized! 4 distinct impacts covering a B27 target.

Oooh! Promising results!
What sort of washer material is between the stacked cones?
Point of cone against flat base above?
Off-center holes drilled in each cone are located where?

RIP- The spacer material is PVC turned down to .725 OD and about .350 wide so the cones just stack without the point touching. Holes are on back side 0.062 and .2 deep.By varying the distance from center you can make the cones separate while still being gyroscopically stabilized. Idea came from my cast bullet experience with voids and how it effected accuracy.-Rob

Rob,
Got your sizer, and a vise big enough.
Will start lubing, vise-ing, and pounding out with a brass rod.
Thanks.









The golf ball launcher is for an AR-15.
Supposed to use a blank cartridge to fire a golf ball 300 yards.
1.5-pound chunk of steel
5.250" long
1.695" bore
1.886" 0.D.

1" thick base that can be tapped out to 1"x24tpi
Will screw on my NEF-er muzzle as a combo
thread protector and golf ball launcher when the Vais brake is removed.

Effective barrel length is 4.25" for golf balls, and will add that much to NEF-er, add weight, and faux muzzle of 1-bore.

Will load some blank shotgun shells to give various yardage, chip shots to long drives.
Use the butt of the NEF-er as a putter.
I will finally make progress in golf.
What's my handicap now?

RIP- Most excellent! I use a el cheapo Harbour Freight Hyrdaulic press and it works great! You will build mussels with a hand press, thats for sure! Try it with some imperial sizing wax! RCBS lube works fine but takes more oomph! Use a brass rod to press the cases out too! I am now annealing fired cases every 3-4 reloadings to minimize the work hardening of the brass. In my NEF chamber I see brass expansion up to 1/2 of the case head!
As an aside,I invented the game of "Golf and Shoot" 15 years ago.Its played with a 7 iron and a 12ga only. Has many many complicated rules, Major Green Fees,liability insurance policies and a dedicated following. Sounds like youd be a serious competitor!
I am making great progress on automating the .50BMG primer seater for the 12GaFH shown in the Pics a few posts above and hope to have it done in a week. Just a few more tools and reloading 12GaFH brass wil be nearly as easy as .38 specials!-Rob

Rob,
I lubed a couple of the Nohnozo cases from my first fireforming misadventure.
Your sizer and my vise worked fine.
They were easily tapped out with a 1/2" brass rod.
Need the smith to get my NEF-er back to me with Vais brake installed.
He was still using a generator for electricity last weekend. I didn't bother him this weekend, maybe next.
Thanks.

RIP- Super, Glad your vise worked fine. As you go to higher pressure loads the brass will expand more and FL resizing will begin to take alot of effort. Hope the Smith finishes your Vias break soon. I'd be interested to know what velocities you get with a little longer barrel than I have. I suspect it might be 50fps or more.-Rob

8 more replies and you'll hit 2000!

Huh?
A mere 2000 repiles to what?
Aren't we closing in on 63,000 here?
I guess it must be an inside joke.
As you were.

In Ethiopia the usual friendly greeting translates not as "Hi, how are you?"
Rather, it is:
"Hi! Have you eaten today?"

In Kentucky, the state greeting is:
"Got power yet?"

My smith has got the Vais Brake installed on the NEF-er.
Will pick it up Saturday, and get him started on the second NEF-er spring and hammer.
Will take him the Golf Ball Launcher to turn into another thread protector and "golfing gun" accessory.

Always finding golf balls in my front yard. If a quiet launching blank can be had,
might be able to return them to the poor golfers across the street.

RIP- I thought the state greeting of Kentucky is "Are we related"? Brings me back to those great years I spent in Cincinnati! Looking foreward to your experience with the Vias brake.-Rob

Rob,
That was before they brought the Cherokees through here on the Trail of Tears.
And by golly we got Mexicans galore here just like everywhere else! We don't worry about the inbreeding as much anymore as we do about obesity, diabetes, smoking, dental hygiene , and illegal aliens.
Reckon Obama can quit smoking? He is a bad example for healthcare reform!
Tobacco was the Redman's Revenge, now it is casinos.

The Indiana state greeting is "Who's yer Daddy."
That is why it is called the "Hoosier State."
Father's Day is the most confusing of holidays in Indiana, especially Northwest Indiana, near Chicagobama, Illannoy.

You gotta go do some consulting?
I gotta go do some maintenance of my certifications ... later.

quote:

Always finding golf balls in my front yard. If a quiet launching blank can be had,
might be able to return them to the poor golfers across the street.

Save them up for a single Trebuchet shot ...

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Huh?
A mere 2000 repiles to what?
Aren't we closing in on 63,000 here?
I guess it must be an inside joke.
As you were.

Humongous brain fart! Combination of Nyquil and a hot buttered rum. We still have 80 replies to go.

Replies are people writing and views are people reading.

Of course, it's lost the wow factor, now, with reality intervening.

My brainfart! Replies are more important than mere views. Good point.

As you were.

Here is the 10-year-oldish son of my gunsmith holding the Vais-Braked NEF-er from hell.
Also a picture of the neat skinning knife this young whippersnapper made for me with his own hands, with fancy maple grip panels,
just like his Pop uses on flintlocks:





Austin McGee



Knife made for me
by Austin McGee:



'Fraid I had to leave the NEF-er No.1 and No.2 at the shop
to get the golf ball launcher/faux one-bore muzzle installed.
They will be interchangeable between the two guns.

The second NEF-er is getting a hammer and spring adjustment from the smith too, Rusty McGee.
Rusty is a mechanical engineer. I asked him to try a few tricks to make the firing pin protrude a little further
and make the spring tension a little stronger.
Will see how it works.

My current NEF-er is perfect for RMC 3.5" brass.
That brass is thicker and bigger everywhere, except length, than the Nohbozo brass.

Nohbozo brass is a sloppy fit in the RMC-fitting chamber.
This by itself may contribute to "no-fire" with the CCI-35 primed Nohbozo brass.

I have a mind to have another reamer made with tighter specs for a perfect fit with Nohbozo brass.
That by itself might make the standard NEF-er fire CCI-35 primers reliably.
Maybe Rob's tighter chamber is the key to his success with a stock NEF-er?

Nice work on the knife...

Sights gonna clear that juice can brake or just gonna do the Canadian Hose Clamp arrangement...?? What was the brake's bore ..?? Did your surgeon have to rebore the beast ...??

RIP- Nice brake and the NEF scope mount should have no trouble with it. My reamer in the NEF chamber only cleans up the end of the chamber. The
NEF chamber is in most dimensions way way bigger than my reamer dimensions which were based off the straight .50BMG case. At 26 KPSI my .50BMG brass does expand quite a bit due to the NEF chamber. Way more than it does in my Borchardt! Your welcome to the dimensions for my reamer though. Alternatively just send me your barrel and I'll mod it for you.-Rob

Mac,
Thanks for the compliment of the young Knife Maker. I think his Pop must be teaching him.
The scope sees over the juice can just fine.

The brake had an ID of .520" for the 50 BMG,
acquired from Brownells,
#927-000-015
VAIS (TM) MUZZLE BRAKE
SS 50 BMG
1x24tpi

It was bored out to .750" to pass the .729" and .730" Darwins muzzleward, yet with effective sideways passing of gas, for 200-ish grain charges of 50BMG.

Rob,
Maybe I shall send you a barrel to ream after it gets threaded for the golf ball launcher.
Or if I get a reamer of my own to tighter specs than standard 12Ga:

What would be a good max diameter for the very end of the reamer, for Nohbozo brass?

Or, who made your reamer and can it be ordered?
My reamer is from Dave Kiff, and it is optimum for RMC 3.5" brass.

RIP- I'll send you the reamer print. I cant remember if it was Dave or JGS that made it. RMC brass wont go half way down my chamber even in the NEF. Wont even start in the Borchardt! Easiest and least expensive thing is just send the barrel and I'll turn it around in a day for you. My reamer was based on my 700RLG( a blown out .50BMG for the Mcmillan action) that I converted to the 12GaFH. It was always a tight chamber design and on the NEF it basically only removes metal to form the new neck and throat. looks like it cuts only about 1 inch. The chamber does not clean up completely and you can still see a very faint line where the old NEF 3" chamber ended. I can't completely polish it out either, however, on the three guns I've rechambered it doesnt cause any sticking even with 8000 ft-lb loads and is purely cosmetic. You can see the line on the brass only in very high power loads and then you really have to look. I suppose if I polished harder i could get it out but I have not bothered.
BTW I have the same Vias brake on my 700RLG and you should shoot it at Night and take some pics. Its awesome! 12 Ft fireball! I would not ever shoot a Quadracone out of it though!-Rob

Rob,
PM sent.

Has anyone done a 24 GFH using 577/450 cases blown out maybe using a 585 bullet/barrel but I kinda like the idea of a 600 short AKA 600-577/450 would be fun in a contender

Boomstick that brass is probably too weakly constructed particularily at the base to be good for any serious cartridge. You should buy some and section it and see what it looks like. section a .50BMG case as a good comparison of what you really want.-Rob

It is Jameson brass so I would think it would be good. 600 short?

lol, what the hell do you call a 577-577/450?!?!?!

577 2 3/8"?

Jamison said 50K psi is OK and the actual casehead is .660" so quite the powerful 24 gauge!!!!!

So the 600 short, 577 2 3/8" are possible...
Also rebating it and cutting a rim and extractor grove to neck to 577 on down. lol a short action Nyati

This is over .1" larger casehead than the WSM/RUM! gives new meaning to "Short magnum"

I am curious to figure out the case capacity of a blown out case... I am guessing it should ne 140 grains or about the same as the 500 and 470 nitro express cases.



Aaaaaah the possibilities

Well it seems something similar has been done but to 2" not 2.3" like the 577/450 length because they used the Snyder case to form the 586 GNR and 610 GNR but the non rimmed have not it looks like.

http://www.reedercustomguns.co...n/GNR_cartridges.htm

They are the two on the right... just imagine .33" longer.

The rim will work in a single shot or double but not in a Bolt Gun. NEF will only take 30Kpsi so you cant load it to full potential. Maybe in a Ruger No.1 but now you need a new barrel. Why not just do a .600NE on a NEF and load it down? You could potentially monoblock it and stub in a .600 Barrel!-Rob

Yes, it would have to be rebated to work in a bolt but it would have 500 NE capacity!

Boomstick- Now your in the same vicious cycle for all these ideas. Once you abandon the rim and go rimless your stuck with the need for a belt to headspace off of or a cartridge with a shoulder. If you stay rimmed, your action options are extremely limited. A NEF monoblocked and stubbed and top strapped might just hold up to a .600NE at 900grs and 1950 fps. Which was the original tropical load. It certainly would at 1750 or 1800 fps. I'd also try and stick with .600NE brass not 577-500 stuff which will need to be fireformed. Nobody likes that process! Could even do a .600Ok low power load at 30Kpsi. Been down this road before,just passing on the hard learned wisdom. Realize it getting more complicated not less complicated. thats a bad sign!
Otherwise its big bucks time. We need a Big Bore relatively inexpensive action that can take 60Kpsi. For under $2K. Then we would dominate all the Big Bores.-Rob

boomer,
Me thinks (Hello Robert Burns)
Jamison set out to make 577/450 brass to last forever.
I have sacrificed my only one, to compare to a TW4 milsurp 50BMG:



Base brass thickness is about .225" for the 577/450MH, and about .350" for the 50BMG.

Note that the 50 BMG is near hemispherical in the base, and about like the base of the 3.5" RMC turned 12Ga brass.

Strangely, both the RMC turned brass cases for 12Ga of 2-5/8" and 2-7/8" have a definetly flat base internally (not hemispherical in the least, 90-degree angle where base meets sidewall) and the brass is about 0.300" thick at the bottom of the case.

Some measured, loaded brass, Nohbozo and RMC,
compare to the max brass specs posted at www.ammoguide.com:





And the reamer from Dave Kiff at PT&G that is perfect for the RMC 3.5" brass, like a standard 12Ga chamber lengthened to 3.85". With the 3.5" RMC brass it has some extra freebore for pressure relief:

(also makes a great custom forcing cone for tightening up the pattern of a 3.5" turkey smoothbore or quail gun)

RIP- Great info and thanks. We know Nobozo brass can take everythingb throw at it and survive. Still not impressed with .577/500 brass. No way I'd do 50Kpsi with that stuff except from a tire mounted testing device wiith someone elses gun!-Rob

That 577/450 MH brass looks pretty strong Rob...what am I missing? Thanks rip!
Rob... there is enough room to headspace on a small shoulder for a 577 and waaaay more for a 500 version.

You should have.015 per side or .030 total for a shoulder. Might get away with .010. in a custom reamer. Do you have that?-Rob

Strictly hypothetical but I was figuring about 1.75 from base to shoulder so the shoulder to top of extractor groove would be about 1.5" so 10 thou taper would "Do" and with a 610 neck diameter and 660 casehead that would gine 20 thou per side shoulder or 40 thou total or the same as the 500 Mbogo shoulder.

All to get a short action Nyati!