Going to make an improvement on
the 87. Rifled and heavy and 31"
long. After many months finally got
a barrel.Ed

With NEF. Plastic cases, roll crimped slug
in drillpress. 82gr IMR 4227 1650 fps,
with 730gr, 78 gr 4227 with 800gr, 1600.
Expansion on cases show little more pressure
as full loads of 4759 and 600gr.
Ignition perfect with small primers.
Got a GEHA bolt 12ga to put a heavier
rifled barrel on to test. Ed

Tested 870 gr in NEF with our long
brass case with big primer.I have NEF
with hammer springs added for big primer.
Got 2000 fps and still able to extract case.
Would do little more, extractor needs
to be wider and set up positive.
Used 260gr of WC-860 and MagPro.
Could use RL-22, Rl-25, Retumbo, etc.
That's 7700 ft lbs.. Ed

More testing with 4227. Greg got little over 1500 fps in
3" plastic with 870 gr slug using 74-75 gr of 4227.
I did the same. This compares to much lighter
REM Buckhammer slug with more speed. Almost all
the way through 5 ft bundle hardwood boards.
I have Mossy 695 as well as GEHA 12 gauge
to put heavy rifled barrels on. And my 87.
Will be checking Mossy 395
for a guy who wants to put on
a heavy barrel. Ed

ED- Do you think those GEHA shotguns are strong enough? -Rob

Ed, Rob,
My concern, though not backed up with actually having done the math (okay i did, just now ) is bolt thrust.. but my behind the envelope is that a low enough pressure on the 12gafh (sub20kpsi) is about the same bolt thrust as a 30gibbs...

just be aware of that, ed, dont' want you to get boltface

The rear lug on GEHA rates as taking
at least 16,000 lbs of thrust. I will add
bolt handle base as a bearing lug also,
which will double the rating. So then
the tensile strength lengthwise the action
is the factor for stength(min 50K).Same thing
I'm doing with Enfield test gun for
my 700H 3.25 case.Only the Enfield is
much longer taking longer case..GEHA will
handle 3" cases with our hopped up slug
loads in 3" plastic and RMC cases.
Max 16,000 psi plastic load will generate
about 7500 lbs thrust, brass less.So we
have a few multiples of safety margin.
The top psi on our plastic cases is about 16k
with the 870gr and 4227 loads.We will do
the Mossy 695 same way as it already has
two rear lugs, 3"" cases, 16k max loads.
All loads with lighter slugs than 870gr
are 13-15000 psi. Verified by pressure gun.
It is realy nice we have Tom to test
psi for us, so we confirm what our
loads are doing.Ed.

Well we could pretty easily do some destructive testing on GEHA type mauser actions and see just where and how they fail. I'd want to do that before trusting a GEHA with the 12 Ga FH plastic shell version. the good news is they would be easy to rebarrel.-Rob

Rob-We won't do any heavy slug loads with
original barrel, but put on heavy rifled
one. The original is only .815" muzzle.
The original on Savage 210 and Mossy
695 are .930" and I wouldn't do our
slug loads in them either. Barrels are coming,
all heavy and 31" plus. Ed

Here is pic of 695 bolt action
Mossberg with dinky barrel and the heavy long
rifled barrel for it. It has a recoil plate
like Rem/Sav, and two rear bolt lugs..Ed

have you thought of extending the tube of the 87 to take out as many tanks as possible??? lol!

I will do the 87 single shot for long case.
Used as repeater its action will only feed
2 & 3/4 cases. Which is ok for me
a big singleshot nut.Ed

Read a report that H & H is going to
make Paradox guns again. Geez, big bore
mania is catching on.Be able to use
shot and slugs, and with newer alloy
barrels, they'd be hairy like the guns Rob and I have set up. Ed

H&H gun has 2 3/4" case at a mere 35,175pounds
H&H press release

They will be pricy, but American hunters
will get a few just for the quality.We
have a large number of loads and slug types
becoming available, in 3 inch cases and 3" reamers in most shops will fix the fit.
Greg and I checking on the Alliant 2400
powder loads you told me about, found that
that powder don't work if cases get in the cold. These are loads with small primers.
At 75 deg good ignition and at 35
degrees misfires and squib loads. So it is
not for everyone. When it works gets velocities like 4759.Ed.

Thanks Ed for the 2400 info, I take it when you talk about small primers you mean shotgun primers?
Would I be better off getting VV N110 for better reliability?

Yes the VV N110 is good, like 4759.
The 4227 is good, and the equivalent
you have there may work. If yuo do
the N110, etc, please post the loads.
Do you have surplus 7383 there, it
works als. Ed

Here is picture of Mauser 12ga
GEHA with a heavy barrel I will put
on it Make a good slug gun.Ed

The 12GA From Hell is now on
Ammoguide, the last page of
cartridge list.Ed

http://ammoguide.com/?catid=611

quote:

The 12GA From Hell is now on Ammoguide, the last page of cartridge list.Ed

http://ammoguide.com/?catid=611
__________________
Ed Hubel.
700HE, THE FIRST BELTED 700,
Registered sporting cartridge.

And thanks for submitting it to us, Ed. One small correction - you linked to your .700 Hubel Express. (Ed likes 'em big!) The 12 Gauge from Hell is at:
http://ammoguide.com/?catid=613



Enjoy, Mike
http://ammoguide.com/

Saw info on a break action that
would handle 12ga FH.It is Cole,
with a strong top lock and real wide
strong extractor.Ed

Tested 3.5" plastic cases in NEF, small
primers. My chamber is long so they work.
600 gr slug, 105 gr of IMR 4227,
got 2100. Same slug, 180 gr, 7383 surplus,
got 2100 fps. That's 5800 ft lbs from
plastic shotgun cases.Ed

Holy crap batman that is awesome!

Along with testing loads in 3.5" plastic, later tested same loads
in 3" RMC brass cases; and with 600gr slug, same wt 4227 and
7383 surplus powders got same 2100 fps.I got a MEC Super Sizer
coming to size base of plastic and RMC cases. Both are hard to
resize with regular die, but this will save time and allow many
more firings of the cases.Just got 3.5" plastic for dime each,
and this sizer will allow as many firings as the RMC brass.Ed

the 12gfh is just so cool...

A bullet fella contacted me and he will make
750gr jacketed 12ga slugs for buck and a half.
He uses Corbin equipment, and that is a very
great price as others have quoted almost
50% more. Minimum order 500 bullets.He
has to get couple pieces of punch and die
tooling to make them .729" to fit most rifled
barrels, and he will get tooling if we pay
half, which is 300 bucks. I want to find
10 guys to put in 30 each plus order 50 or
a hundred and we have him get tooling ordered. Contact me so I can see how many want to get
in on the deal.Then after I tally everyone
I will get back to you for the funds.Here is pic of a sizer we got that does plastic
cases back to factory specs in few seconds
and allows 3 times more reloads. No more cases
sticking in dies, or spending 5 min
to get them sized only half assed.ED.

oooh...a rare glimpse into Dr. Frankensteins labratory

Ed.........is that an 8-Track Player on the end of your bench?

Mac- That is a tv studio 3/4" tape player.
I have many tapes of music, gun stuff, etc.
Boom, just some of the junk I have.And I
still don't have enough.I fired the Enfield,
that just got done for my 700 3.25", that could also do 12ga, If I chambered it to it and a little more action work, and keeping both at my bolt action Savage moderate pressures.
Load testing today AA-8700, Wc-872, US869,
Retumbo, all getting 1750 to 1850.Real mild loads with 825 gr.Ed

ed,
i am good for 30 bucks

The FH "Trio" .....Ed

I assume the one on the left is a 20 guage? Looks great. What will the left one do?

The left is 28GA FH, with regular 28
gauge plastic case. I have a bolt gun
ready for that when cases get here
later on for 28GA FH. 3.25". Same bore
as the 550 Magnum.It will do about same
as Rich's 550 .We don't have a
FH cartridge for every gauge. Not
enough time and dough. Center is the
12ga............. Got to find gun
for big one......Ed

cool...

the 410 version I would find particularly cool...

You are the lewis and clark of wildcatting...you pick which one.

the brass 410's might be too soft but...
the 9,3x74 or 9,3x82 would be great! here is a 9,3x82 soon to be a 410x82 from hell


with a 400 bullet in thre this round would be 4" long

kinda like a 410/411 version of the 400 Nitro Express either 3" or 3.25"

Keeping it to 28,000 psi I wonder what the 3.25"(82mm) would do????

Aircat dibbs

Boomie- Where did you get that case from,
as there are couple guys on other forums
who have done 410s like that. .Which is why
I didn't venture there. Leavr small ones
for other guys. Is that a basic case 9,3
case?/Ed

http://www.midwayusa.com/ebrowse.exe/browse?TabID=1&Cat...*652***670***9013***

betram 9,3x82 brass...question is when was it made since the old stuff is not up to par.

How fast do you think the 3.25" version will toss 400 grains safely???

A ream job in a $500 side by side could be interesting...

Or just ream out a 405 win ruger #1 and get the preasure up to 50,000 psi what would that get??? 400@ 2250 or 2300???

It is plenty strong, being made by
Bertram.. The weak ones are from a 100
years ago. I think at that if
you had a 410 size case that length, 3.25".
a 400gr with W-760 or W-748, would keep
up with 416 rem, 2350-2400 fps.Base of
9.3 x 74 is same as 410, but my books says
9.3 x 82 is about .040 smaller.Need to find
some 9.3 x 74 basic.....Ed.

crap...I thought it was the same case but longer...grrrrr.

Ed what do you think can the 9,3x74 do in a shotgun with 400 grain bullets???

Thanks