quote:

Originally posted by Con:
Who needs a 416Taylor, 416Ruger or 416Remington given those numbers!!
Cheers...
Con

Good point!
I was thinking of a 416 Taylor on a Ruger 77 to replace my 416 Rem M70 I was talked out of by a collector, but now I'm thinking a 416 AR might be worth looking at...

quote:

Originally posted by Sambar 9.3:

quote:

Originally posted by Con:
Who needs a 416Taylor, 416Ruger or 416Remington given those numbers!!
Cheers...
Con

Good point!
I was thinking of a 416 Taylor on a Ruger 77 to replace my 416 Rem M70 I was talked out of by a collector, but now I'm thinking a 416 AR might be worth looking at...

Dave,
I'm assuming with a name like SAMBAR 9.3, your in Australia

Go with the 458, Con and I have the reamer and headspace gauges, all you need is to place an order with hornady for a new set of Dies. And get yourself a 458 Barrel either form PACNOR or contact Tony at TSE (MAB) in Queensland, he did the reaming and fitting, for us

I Australia, I registered the 458 and the 500 as the AccRel, they weren't real keen on using "AR"

Any other advise let us know we'll help you out as much as we can

regards
S&F

quote:

Originally posted by Sambar 9.3:

quote:

Originally posted by Con:
Who needs a 416Taylor, 416Ruger or 416Remington given those numbers!!
Cheers...
Con

Good point!
I was thinking of a 416 Taylor on a Ruger 77 to replace my 416 Rem M70 I was talked out of by a collector, but now I'm thinking a 416 AR might be worth looking at...

Dave,
Hazy memory tells me your in NE Vic ... if so we're organising a Big Bore shoot at Wodonga range probably for Saturday 20th Sept. Both S&F and my 458AccRel will be there for a 'try session' if your interested. I'm more inclined to also suggest a 45cal just for the projectile variety. Use a Ruger action and your really just a rebarrel away from a smooth feeding rifle with minimal work.
Cheers...
Con

quote:

Originally posted by Con:

quote:

Originally posted by Sambar 9.3:

quote:

Originally posted by Con:
Who needs a 416Taylor, 416Ruger or 416Remington given those numbers!!
Cheers...
Con

Good point!
I was thinking of a 416 Taylor on a Ruger 77 to replace my 416 Rem M70 I was talked out of by a collector, but now I'm thinking a 416 AR might be worth looking at...

Dave,
Hazy memory tells me your in NE Vic ... if so we're organising a Big Bore shoot at Wodonga range probably for Saturday 20th Sept. Both S&F and my 458AccRel will be there for a 'try session' if your interested. I'm more inclined to also suggest a 45cal just for the projectile variety. Use a Ruger action and your really just a rebarrel away from a smooth feeding rifle with minimal work.
Cheers...
Con

20 Sept? I'll have to pencil that in, thanks Con.
Not N.E. Vic, Melbourne. That just means I get the easy track into the Wonangatta.

I hadn't thought about the 458 version much, since I had good luck with the 416 on Sambar and Scrub Bull. Having said that, I don't thave that much laid up in the way of projectiles, etc, for the 416.
The rational for a Taylor was that standard magnum brass is probably not going to go out of fashion anytime soon. But RUM brass is easy to get, maybe I will give it a go.
If I keep my fillings in my head when I shoot yours...

quote:

Originally posted by ShortandFat:


I Australia, I registered the 458 and the 500 as the AccRel, they weren't real keen on using "AR"

regards
S&F

I can't imagine why VicPol licensing services wasn't keen on that designation...

Seriously, thanks for the offer, I may well take you up on it.
Now to talk to MAB, and find a donor rifle. I'm thinking Ruger SS/Laminate. Any suggestions?

Actually, if the designer and owner don't mind, I was thinking of using the original name given to the case. Trollbane... The 458 Trollbane. Not as snappy as Karl's 585 BMF, however it has a certain ring to it, don't you think?

wow guys!!
it would be awesome to see these are factory rounds ... we'll have headstamped brass very soon.

Dave
i had originally designed, and might dig it up, the 470 trollbane, which is a 2.65" long improved rigby case. Since the RUM brass worked so well, and I dedicated the series to AR has homage (and because boomy complained that there wasn't any rounds named after ar) everything has been the AR series...

But, please, feel free to inscribe whatever you like on the barrell... and it doesn't hurt anything if you put both on it...

the 470 trollbane would probably send a 500gr over 2500 .. but i haven't done it, since the AR does so well
jeffe

The 458 AR Trollbane it is...

Dave,
Definately see if you can make Wodonga, I could write you an essay on what S&F have learnt about these 458AccRel builds as we built different styled rifles. The advantage I see with a 416Taylor is that it can be built 'sporter weight' but I believe if your willing to compromise and accept a 45cal 400gr Woodleigh at 2300fps then you could conceivably build an even lighter 458AccRel. I'd be inclined to say build it heavier though so you can get a 500gr at 2200fps at low pressures and still manage the recoil comfortably. Jeffe has alluded to mild recoil from the AR's ... I always thought he was punch drunk ... but the Ruger with factory pad and 500gr at 2230fps is most certainly less of a bitch then my CZ550 in 458Lott with F990 pad was. I really don't know why ... both S&F and I have suffered from the 458AccRel's ... but its the bloody front factory sling swivel doing the damage!!

I'd better stop writing before I go over the top ... but if you're genuinely interested, drop me a PM and I'll dump a heap of 'thoughts' on you. I still have the barrel profile drawings and can show you where you can save weight if you wanted to build a "sporter weight" rifle, plus where we built weight into our rifle ... mine especially so. Our rifles hold 2+1, if we modify the magazine boxes we may be able to get 3+1.

One nice thing about the 458AccRel ... you can still build one and have it shooting with change left over compared to what we pay for a new CZ550 which will still need bedding and depending on what model you buy, additional crossbolts.
Cheers...
Con
PS: Forgot to add that there's a mob in Qld currently trying to get a quote for a shipment of chrome-moly A&B barrels ... if they come through ... using a S/H Ruger action ... you'd be able to get a bloody cheap 458AccRel built!!

Sounds good, will do.

quote:

Originally posted by Con:
Dave,
Hazy memory tells me your in NE Vic ... if so we're organising a Big Bore shoot at Wodonga range probably for Saturday 20th Sept. Both S&F and my 458AccRel will be there for a 'try session' if your interested.
Cheers...
Con

Sat 20th Sept. is a pistol silhouette shoot day. I will probably be there to meet my minimum number of shoots for pistol licence but think I will leave my 416taylor at home

Cheers

quote:

Originally posted by tbolt:
Sat 20th Sept. is a pistol silhouette shoot day. I will probably be there to meet my minimum number of shoots for pistol licence but think I will leave my 416taylor at home
Cheers

That's okay, pretty sure S&F is bringing his modified Howa 416Taylor '6 shooter' along ... you can't get out of having a shot that easily!
Cheers...
Con

Con, who is bringing the BBLs in?
Also, who is you POC at Hornady? The people I spoke to didn't know what a 458 AR was. They kept trying to sell me some 458 SOCOM dies...

BTW, I did manage to source a 'cheap' 338 Ruger to use as a donor, so here we go!

Dave,
Hinterland Shooting Supplies in Qld is trying to source the A&B barrels at the moment, I'm crossing my fingers they can source them cheaper than a locally made Sprinter. They'll be C/M though. Cheapest stainless is either PacNor or an MAB. I suppose if you went with MAB, Tony's already built two 458AccRel's.
Contact at Hornady is Lonnie in the custom dies area. I'll forward you the latest email he sent me with pricing including freight to Australia ... I think he's just awaiting Jeffe's 458AR cases as he has the reamer spec drawing. I'll be ordering the dies in the next month or so.

Lucky bugger ... if you find another Ruger (blued/walnut) in the next few months, give me a heads up!!
Cheers...
Con

Thanks, will do.

Lonnie has everything but the fired cases. I should have those ready before the 4th

quote:

Originally posted by Sambar 9.3:
Thanks, will do.

Dave to add further to what Con has said, the main reason we didn't go with the 470 is because we have a very poor variety of projectiles in that calibre here in Australia

I know a 470 will make big holes, but don't go shooting SAMBAR with a .470 projectile built to drop buffalo, they are too hard

regards
S&F

S&F,
Your uncle building one? Sent you a PM at AHN as there may be another 458AccRel being planned on a Ruger action... we might need to 'co-ordinate' on dies if 3-4 sets are coming and split freight. Otherwise we can all order individually as rifles are put together.
Cheers...
Con

PS: Sambar9.3 ... you should have an email now of S&F and my barrel profiles. Shilen #5.5 and #6. Jeffe can add whether he feels a #5 is too light for a 10-10.5lb build on a Ruger action???

S&F, I was thinking of a 416, either a Taylor or a Rem, but the 458 AR seems to make more sense.

short and fat...
them 400 grain 470 gold dot pistol bullets will be good for anything but DG

boomstick,
The 'large calibre pistol' bullshit ban has effectively made those pills special order only and pricey. Stupid by-product of another ill-informed and ineffective Govt policy. If we coudl have got them the 470AccRel would have been a go-er, but realistically the 458AccRel is the easiest to feed of the bunch!
Cheers...
Con

Con, got it, thanks.
Most impressive...
I think I might go with trying to duplicate S&Fs rifle balance.
Any thoughts?

Hey, those new 416 rugers will make for great 416 ACCREL's

quote:

Originally posted by Sambar 9.3:
Con, got it, thanks.
Most impressive...
I think I might go with trying to duplicate S&Fs rifle balance.
Any thoughts?

Sambar9.3,
S&F's rifle with a set of open sights is the perfect DGR if you like the neutral balance feel! I reckon if he placed open sights on it and a Leupold 4x and 2.5x in QD mounts there's nothing on this planet that couldn't be hunted with it. It makes the 416's immaterial ...400gr at 2400fps, 500gr at 2230fps all at moderate pressures ... nothing more to want for! The Ruger's feed a Rem 405gr smooth as for plinking duties as well.

From S&F's barrel profile, you could shorten the barrel shank to standard Ruger dimensions and save a few ounces as well, or go a #5 contour to save a bit more weight ... I think its messing with the perfect though.
Cheers...
Con

There are 5 sets of 500 AR dies yet to be spoken for...

I just ordered another barrel, and bought a ruger, to build a m77 mkII 500 AR on...

jeffe

Jeffe

Thats great about the Ruger, MIne is off to the gunsmith next week, but it will only be a half completed job

I need the basic gun back to form improved cases so the feeding, can be checked correctly

So step one is thread and headspace barrel, barrel lug, sling band, open bolt face and extractor claw, install front sight.

Then it's back to me to open up stock and bed the action, then fireform the cases

Then it might have to go back to the gunsmith to work on feeding and follower box

I might have it all done by Christmas


Jeffe if you can keep a few notes on your modifications to the action and follower box I'm sure I could do this myself

Lastly , whats your opinion on these, I have a set of LOW Leupold QR rings and a weaver style XS peep, that I wanted to use on the ruger, but can't because of the ruger integral base,

I haven't got the original Ruger rings or a NECG Ruger peep

Then I found BURRIS make a low profile steel weaver base (not alloy)that goes onto the ruger action,

here's a picture of my 500AR stock and action before it goes to the gunsmith with the WEAVER style bases attached, has anybody used them on a big bore rifle ?



best regards
S&F

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
There are 5 sets of 500 AR dies yet to be spoken for...

I just ordered another barrel, and bought a ruger, to build a m77 mkII 500 AR on...

jeffe

Can you go ahead and mail my dies to me. I also found the MO for the recoil reducer I bought from you. Do you want a copy of it?
Frank

Frank,

Yeppers.. They will go out either today or tomorrow!
jeffe

My dies came in the mail thanks to Jeffe and I coudn't be happier. So happy in fact I ordered a barreled action from brownells and got my 500ar project rolling. For those that have done so, what barrel profile is everyone using? I would love a finished weight of 10-11# with open sights, syn. stock and 22" tube. #6 contour? sendero?

for my ruger based one.

I ordered a 23" pacnor #6, and cutoff to whatever it turns out to be. That will make it a little thicker than normal. i am looking for 9.5-10# on mine, and adding .5# would be easy as fishing.

EDIT: double post

quote:

Originally posted by ptaylor:
My dies came in the mail thanks to Jeffe and I coudn't be happier. So happy in fact I ordered a barreled action from brownells and got my 500ar project rolling. For those that have done so, what barrel profile is everyone using? I would love a finished weight of 10-11# with open sights, syn. stock and 22" tube. #6 contour? sendero?

PT

I ordered and now have the Sendero for my 500, its the perfect Ruger profile

BUT

I recon I made a mistake, the Sendero tapers off very quickly and it only has a 2.5 inch parallel shank,

With a .510 bore, there is very little meat in the barrel to put a good dovetail and solder a recoil lug about 6 inches infront of the action

Only 230 to 250 thou between outer and inner wall,

I think a Medium PALMA, with 1.5 inches off the base of the barrel to shorten the longer shank, chambered and tipped at 22 would be spot on

But to be honest you I don't think you will achieve 10 - 11 pound with a #6, Sendero or a PALMA at 22 inches not with the big .510 bore and a synthetic stock, that .510 bore takes a crapload of weight out of the blank

If you want a synthetic stock, 22 inch barrel, you might want to look at one of the straight taper barrels, Con has one on his 458 ACCREL (AR) and it's plenty thick enough to add the second recoil lug and heavy enough to cut to 22 inches, don't tell Con but it's too big I recon for his 458 but will be great for the 500

regards
S&F

I just placed my order for a med-palma stainless barrel @ 22" with a 1x9 twist (i wanted 1x10 but they didn't have it). Now i'm all freaked out about my twist choice. I'm not going to ever run my 500ar at full tilt so I don't need to worry about high pressures and twist rates. However, I will be shooting mil. sup. 50 bmg bullets at 1500fps and lots of cast bullets at 2000 and less and I think 1x9 is the better choice. I don't want to start a twist war just interested to hear others thoughts (meaning jeff and s&f) on what you chose and why?

I ordered mine 14 twist ... my 500 jeffe is 18 twist, and i think my original 500 AR is 15twist, from bauska.

We'll use those widespec barrels for bullet shootings tests!
j

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
I ordered mine 14 twist ... my 500 jeffe is 18 twist, and i think my original 500 AR is 15twist, from bauska.

We'll use those widespec barrels for bullet shootings tests!
j

Excellent idea, maybe once and for all we can lay the twist debate to bed.

Frank
Merc tube and dies are on the way!

Next round of 500 AR dies are now at the heat treaters

2 more (3?) barrels have been ordered!
jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by ptaylor:
I would love a finished weight of 10-11# with open sights, syn. stock and 22" tube. #6 contour? sendero?

ptaylor,
What synthetic stock are you thinking of using?? My 500AccRel carbine (when I start the build ... need to find a donor Ruger first!)would love to be stocked in synthetic!! I'll also be running a mild load of 535gr at 2150fps to keep it tame.
Cheers...
Con

I like those B&C stocks with the aluminum bedding block. I've just sunk my buddies 458win mag into one and they look very stout. It even had a metal bar bedded in the forend behind the barrel recoil lug. They are good to go but a little on the $$ side. I'm thinking OD green or some other color they offer to keep things interesting.

bump for RG