The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores 416, 458, 470, and 500 AR - the line of AR rounds - dialup warningGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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S&F, Given that I know who your asking ... tell them I can supply them with SA and LA floorplates as I wouldn't mind going for the 3rd round in the 458AccRel, plus getting extra depth and hopefully another round in the 350RemMag.  Cheers... Con | |||
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Had a chat with them tonight, I loaded the 2 rounds into the 458 AccRel and showed them we are only about 1/4 inch away from fitting the 3rd round. He seems to think it would be pretty easy to mill a floor plate with about 1/3 to 1/2 inch of depth. The hardest thing he recons is how to attatch the follower spring. Just use the existing hing pin to attatch it and the same release clip on the trigger gaurd. Gents how far away is the 500 AccRel from fitting the next round would the same 1/3 of an inch get the next round in ? They are going to hand make the first follower plate for me, get all the measurements and make up a CNC code and quick machine about 10 for me. Price at this stage.....I have no idea, lets hope they don't cost hundreds of dollars each They should look a little something like the boxed out floor plate on the browning BAR's, no magazine just a follower spring and plate attatched.  Jeffe, on a happier note, My GUNSMITH actually phoned me today,(usually it's me phoning him) telling me the barrel is on and headspaced and the bolt has been done, he asked me to send the Boyds stock to him for correct inletting, I told him NOT to bed it, I was going to do that. So not far away fo me now. regards S&F | |||
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Joe, My nearly stock ruger is 2+1 . and might be 1/3 ot 1/2 an inch from a proper fit .. Great news on the 500! opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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I talked with Jon at McGowen last Tuesday about the progress on my 500 AR and he said they were working on it and that they were in the process of moving thier shop so alot of things were still in boxes. This rifle will have their 1 in 10" twist barrel 24"s long. Their gunsmith is setting up the rear sight for me and leaving off the front. The front sight will be installed here at my smith along with threading of the muzzle for optional suppressor, thread protector and removable break. And then decide on metal finish such as blueing, gunkote, krylon etc. Rodney. | |||
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Gentlemen I took delivery of my 500 AccRel yesterday. It ended up costing me a little more than I initially thought, but it was worth the wait. The rifle started off as a new Ruger Mark II 7mm Rem Mag, I sold the stock off and brought a Boyds laminate, luck I did, I think the Boyds is deeper and allows you to fit that extra round in the mag. I can get 2 down with about 1/4 inch to spare. All up I waited 12 months to get the job done, the gunsmith here is considered one of the best Big Bore rifle builders in Australia. So I just left it with him and waited. The Barrel and chamber were cut at PACNOR and Jeffe had a headspace gauge sent over with the dies and 3 empty cases. I also got the largest NECG master front sight band Brownells sell, a barrel band and the NECG Ruger peep. The barrel profile was the SENDARO VARMINTER, it's a little light but I wanted the barrel at 25 inches and now the balance is right over the front cross bolt. I also had a 1 inch limbsaver put on, a second recoil lug added to the barrel and a brass wrist pin epoxied down the full length of the pistol grip, front two recoil lugs are bedded. The front sling swivel was also removed and capped off, it looks OK When the peep is off I have a straight 2.5 compact leupold on it and the balance is just right. All up with scope the gun weighs in at about 10 pounds, 9.5 without the rings and scope Here's some photo of the whole setup  500 AccRel evolution 416 Rigby, Trimmed to 2.65, necked up, loaded for fireforming, 500 AccRel  The NECG rear peep and plenty of inletting room around the rear of the action and stock  Peep removed and compact scope added, will need to carry a small screw driver in the pack to exchange if need be. Cross bolts are a bit big but very effective, they are SAKO  Barrel band replaces forend stud and it's capped off.  Barrel profile comparison, on the left is my Remington SPS 375H&H, on the right the Sendaro Varminter profile of the 500 AccRel  Last but not least the whole gun I will be out fireforming brass today and will get some load data up shortly Best regards S&F | |||
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Very nice rig!.. that scope a 30MM tube? What did it wind up weighing? i just woke up, so I can't put the words together to say how humbled and proud I am for the ARs to have made it this far. Thanks EVERYONE Joe, anneal the cases, at least after you die form them jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Congrats on the 500 Short and Fat! It is a heck of a combo the 500AR and the MKII Fun to shoot!  577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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posting more load data for the 500 AR on ammoguide..l load the SOFTS (dgx) .25 gr LESS than the DGS - no, really, the softs went ~20fps FASTER than the solids. opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Did some Chrony work today with my 500 AccRel I went with AR 2208, this is sold to the US market and distributed as VARGET, since ADI Australia and Hodgdon have some sort of a relationship VARGET is a fraction slower burning than H4895 and H335 I do think the AUSTRALIAN powder of choice is AR2206H, it's producing similar speeds with similar load density to your H335, unfortunately we don't have H335 here. Actually you guys do have our AR2206H over there, I'm pretty sure it's marketed in the USA as H4895 The results ;- 100 grains of 2208 (varget) behind a 535g Bertrum projectile produced a very mild load with a 5 shot average of 2282fps. Still a suprising amount of room in the case and showing very little pressure signs. I might keep trying to bump up the loads with 2208(varget) and see if it gets better with a fuller case ! regards S&F | |||
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Joe GREAT results .. though some may find it disturbing that 2300 with a 535 is "very mild" .. But i know what you mean.. your primers probably look like 30-30 ... round on the edges and slight concave, from the fireing pin strike? I've taken that bullet to 2400+, for I said "well, that's enough for TODAY" Will you be posting on ammoguide? i am certain you know this info On the adi ar2206h
http://www.adi-limited.com/handloaders-guide/news.asp ADI powder xref jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Thanx Jeffe, although I must fess up I do were a LIMBSAVER recoil bra for this sort of development work Already posted the details on AmmoGuide, will add more as I go And you right about the primers, I get much flatter primers in my WSM rounds. Thanx for the reference, I do have their reloading book and a copy of that chart is at the back I do think I will end up going back to AR2206H (H4895) because it's the only powder I can load where I can use the same amounts as you do with H335 for similar velocities. The whole idea of trying to use ar2208(varget) is to get a fuller case and keep the pressure down, but it might not work, anyhow I'll keep sneaking up on the loads and see if it gets better regards S&F | |||
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S&F .. Congratulations .. What a nice rifle .... .. The way the stock is inletted for the reciever I don,t think you will have any stock problems ..... That is the same design as I have on my 9.3x64 B ..... .. . . Are you getting much shot to shot velocity variation ???? 2280 fps w/ 535n gr bullet .. On a standard Ruger . WOW .... .. Fritz454's thread on Bolt or Double has me thinking about a 16" barreled ,have with me bear rifle .......... I very much like the look of that 500 AccRel. round ... What is the twist of the barrel .... , ..???????? Thank you for your time and for posting the pics ...  WTG Jeffe  .If it can,t be grown , its gotta be mined .... | |||
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thanks -- its easay to get that bullet to 2400.. with a 25" barrel, but it was slow twist ... opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Thanx Gumboot your right it's KOOL There was a bit of variation, out of the 5 shots the lowest was 2253 the highest was 2324, i guess I'll have to stop relying on just the powder thrower to do the charge. Now the barrel is A PACNOR .510. I'm pretty sure I ordered the 1:18 twist, profile is the Varmiter Sendero which is great for a 25 or 26 inch barrel, but not my recommendation for a short barrel, it's too thin, it was almost too thin to add the 2nd recoil lug Even with the 25 inch barrel and sights the gun comes in at about 9.5lb If you are going with the shorter barrel I'd use a quicker powder. regards S&F | |||
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.. Thanks for the reply ........... Doing alot of research at this time , Also building a house ,, Lots of research called for  .If it can,t be grown , its gotta be mined .... | |||
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And here is the latest 500 AccRel rifle built on a CZ 550 magnum. Almost finished, just could not wait to get it into shooting configuation. Barrel is a McGowen 1 in 10" twist, 24" long in a heavy CZ contour measuring .800" at the muzzle. CZ "knuckle" milled in place from barrel stock for recoil lug and rear sight. Stock will be crossbolted and bedded if not replaced with an upgrade. Special thanks to Jeffeosso for the use of his tooling and his input on this project. Rodney.     | |||
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Looking GREAT Rodney ... Needs bedding, bolting, barrel accesories and bluing! How do you like the jeffe profile? opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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I really like the "jeffe profile", the balance is very good and your going to like this one. Having the "CZ knuckle" milled from barrel stock was a fantastic idea. Feeds flawlessly, slicker and smoother than any of the others. Only problem is I've only three loaded cartridges for it, maybe just as well until the stock gets some upgrade modifications. Thanks again for the help. Rodney. | |||
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Rodney - Sent you a PM opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Gents More load development this afternoon. Well after much deliberation regarding what powder to use here in Australia (no H335), I decided to go with AR2206H, this is made here in Australia and sold to Hodgdon and marketed over there as H4895. Now it is only ever so slightly slower than H335, So the load data is pratically the same I loaded Jeffe's Ammo Guide max Load of 102g of AR2206H (H4895), federal 215 primers and a Bertrum 535g projectile, these projectiles are actually seated about 20 thou deeper than the Woodleighs. Results over the chrony: 2457 2444 2472 2461 err 2 2505 Average 2467.8 fps => Muzzle energy 7239 sfp (awesome) Six shots in total, shot 5 recorded an error, but it might have been bad light The damn gun has come alive, in a big way, no injuries but a slightly sore neck from trying to bench a decent group at 50 Yards, not happy it's was about 2.5 inches but it's more me settling in I think...  I use the same primers in my 375 & 300 and they are quiet a bit flatter than those in the 500 AccRel so pressure signs are definately still only on the upper side of moderate. There is actually still a bit of room in the case. Holy Cow Jeffe, what a round. However I am definately stopping there have found my max load. regards S&F | |||
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Thanks Joe -- Those big ole blue nosed bullets will probably SMACK the wiggle out of most things. The primers look great, that's about where i go, "okay, there's more in here, do i WANT it" ? you inch longer barrel gave 12 fps, but i was burning h335 and you the 2206 .. same load weight .. "Come Alive" is right.. at 2150, its a puppy.. and 2450, its a pitbull! There's still more room for powder in it.. and its really surprising the power you can get out of that short little 50! The ruger is just perfect for them, for a hunting rifle.. built like a banksafe, and the rings won't slide! good on ya! jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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416 AR -- for the guys that contributed bullets -- THANKS i've got 12 different bullets, 6 shots each, all lined out .. i'll load them over the week and go put them over the chrono soon .. if i can't shoot next sunday, it will be like the 16th or 17th before I can shoot opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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What happens when you rechamber a 458 Lott with a 458 AR? You get a neck length almost identical to the 404 and a cool Rigby looking cart 458 Ar left and the long neck bastard on the right. The 460 G&A was a cart designed to do 500 @ 2400 so this should be a modern version. I guess you could fire form 404 brass in the chamber for an unrebated version.  416 rigby  404 Jeffery  577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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you could, but wouldn't REALLY gain anything over the lott .. remember, the AR are designed for standard length actions, and with a long throat .. dropping them in a long action .. well, if you wanted to get more than the lott, just run an ackley reamer in it .. the improved lott is the ackley.. the full length GA works great .. the 458 ultracat is the full length rum, and then, stepping up, you get the 450 rigby .. none in the above paragraph fit easily in a standard action! opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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I think shooting a 500 grain bullet getting another 100 fps is something. That is what Jeff Cooper did with his "Baby" rifle. with the 460 G&A 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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we tried it .. i set the throat up long enough to do it .. BUT, really, you aren't gaining anything .. if you have the long action, do a lott .. if you want more than a lott, do the ackley .. then the capstick in the 470 .. odd to be arguing against my rounds, but the long action isn't missing anything in a lott or an ackley ... Look, we are easily hitting 2300 in the ruger action ... 2400 if you have a 24" barrel .. you just don't need the additional 50 fps .. if it won't die from 500gr at 2300, likely it has treads and a turbine motor opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Just thought it would be interesting... Not arguing against the AR's at all but was thinking of the 3.6" action and having more boom room than the lott. I always thought the 460 G&A or similar was the ideal magnum length 458 and cheap to do on a Lott 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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You can get a model70 RUM, and have Fred rebarrel to 458 ultracat .. that is a MONSTER rechamber a lott to the 458 and it will be the end of the world. opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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How bout some pictures of completed rifles. What does the "jeffe contour" look like on a completed rifle? thanks | |||
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it took all of 5 mins to fully setup my hornady LnL AP for the 458 AR .. and to adjust and crank out 50 rounds. that's just SWEET opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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How about a photo of that setup? M http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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I'll add to tanz2007's post. How about a new thread, "A photo essay of the rifles of the AR family of cartridges". That sounds like a great idea to me. I haven't got to build mine yet. Damn economy and being in the construction industry sucks. Thrown a big monkey wrench into all my rifle plans for sure. David Walker | |||
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Sounds like good time -- I'll need to get some of the Guys to take pictures and or have a get together! opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Hey Jeffe He's my two Download the reference and use it 1st 458 AccRel, Ruger Hawkeye action and Factory Walnut stock Limbsaver & SAKO crossbolts Barrel - 5.5 profile 24 inch Scope 2.5 - 8 x 36 VX III  2nd 500 AccRel M77 Ruger Mark 2, Boyds JRS Laminate stock Limbsaver kickpad & SAKO crossbolts Barrel - Pacnor Varmiter Sendero profile 25 inch Scope - Leupold 2.5 Compact also NECG Rear Peep and front sight)  Best regards Joe aka Short and Fat Australia | |||
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That's a good start Joe. There are several others posted on this particular thread. But it would be nice to have a new thread of pics and blueprints of everyone's rifles. That would give the others of us more ideas and suggestions as to what we need to use and/or include in our build. Thanks for all the help thus far fellows. Especially you Jeffe. Hopefully soon my 470AR will become a reality. David | |||
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Going to blue my old 500 this week, I think 500 AccRel friends..., remember, there's LOTS of loads here and on ammoguide opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Peyton has a 458 ACcRel for sale classifieds. opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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458 AccRel Brass on Midwayusa! opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Awesome!     maybe a few more people will discover it! 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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