Getting kind of slow on the big bore forum.
Hot topic right now is shootaway touting his .458 Lott Ruger RSM makeover whilst mingling with streetwalkers in Las Vegas ?
Oh, well, the .458 WIN sure beats that.

Rip ...

Deciding between the 3 generations of .450 Nitro Express is a tough one when planning the next safari.
If only I could take all three.
That would be a great bit of redundancy and backup.
But actually, Marcella alone with a 1-4X20mm Nikon scope and a backup 2.5X-8X36mm Leupold, and a backup-backup 2.5X20mm Leupold would be pretty nice too.

Rip ...

hussaa on Ms Marcella going it alone. All you need is the bubba 480 loaded in a bag full of ammo and a license for about 20 Buffalo. That would generate a lot of Mission content.
I think Shootaway has, or is about to, discover why he needed that helmet.

quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:
All you need is the bubba 480 loaded in a bag full of ammo and a license for about 20 Buffalo.

What a nice thought, buy a donkey.

That Ruger No.1-H "Tropical" .458 WIN I bought in 1984 and foolishly traded away, has been reincarnated !
It was my first big bore, having graduated from the .30-30 Marlin and the .30-06 Ruger M77 Roundtop.
This re-incarnation was made in 1980, by the serial number:

Aside from a few minor dents on the right side of the buttstock, she looks fresh as a daisy.
That is her name.
Might get it engraved and inlaid with gold,
"Daisy" on the left side of the action (letters and flowers),



and my initials on the right side, "R.I.P."



This 40-year-old rifle must have been owned by a little old lady who only took it out of the safe for Sunday go to meeting.
It has a clean-breaking 3.0-pound trigger, old adjustable type.
9.0-pound rifle weight, open-sighted and unloaded.
40.5" Rifle Overall Length (ROL) as is.
24" barrel with muzzle diameter 0.815".
From my cold dead fingers this time.

Rip ...

My last fiberglass B&C stock will serve well on Daisy while her wood is getting freshened up.



Rip ...

What a thing of pure beauty. Ruger #1 in 458wm. I have lusted in my heart for one I do confess. Happy for you Sir!

I can hear certain members right now: "You should convert that one into a Lott".

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
I can hear certain members right now: "You should convert that one into a Lott".

HA! That would be sacrilege !
I have learned my lesson. After you do that to a No.1, there is no going back without setting the barrel back or getting a new barrel,
or re-chambering the ruined No.1 from .458 Lott to .450 NE Rigby.
That'll work for nostalgia, and would be better with short-bullet loads than a .458 Lott.
Might even equal a .458 WIN-V-3.8" with long-bullet loads, if the thin-rim brass is up to it.
The rifle is up to it for sure.

Rip ...

Bob,

Take note of an idea for reinforcing/rebuilding that spare "cracked" buttstock you have.
A steel, brass or thick aircraft aluminum tube lining for the hole the buttstock bolt goes through ?
There are some threaded steel or brass conduit tubes used for making lamps.
They run insulated wires through them to carry the AC current.
Like a piece of allthreaded pipe.
If one can be found long enough and with a big enough hole inside diameter ...



That blued-steel & "gold" grip cap ain't coming off without some destructive effort.
I'm on the lookout for steel, brass, or titanium-aluminum tubes.
Find one of proper ID and OD and just rough up the outside of it to adhere better to epoxy.
Or, have a gunsmith-machinist thread the outside of the tube and thread the buttstock through-hole with same threads,
then epoxy those threads together.
Has this been done before or should Bubba get a patent on this idea ?

Rip ...

How about this...
The rest of the letters can be small font.

Buy a donkey, boom stick.
Good work getting the right words with the right picture:
'The line quoted by Doc at the end of the fight at the OK Corral is historically true, and was reported in the Tombstone papers reporting the fight. When confronted by one of the cowboys at point blank range, the cowboy reportedly said, "I got you now Doc, you son of a bitch!", to which Doc gleefully retorted, "You're a daisy if you do!" '(imdb)
Your support of THE MISSION is greatly appreciated.

GRANDPA'S FOUR FIVE EIGHT

It rested between the Ivory
That hung on Grandpa's wall
Like a grand keyboard ebony
To the yellowed tusks it helped fall.

It's barrel smooth and polished
From a hundred bearers' hands,
It reflected the light warmly
Like campfires' flickering brands.

The stock of Turkish walnut,
Chewed and clawed a bit,
It still showed a trace of checkering
and a dent where horn had hit.

Stamped on the barrel lightly
Was a name and not much more.
A single word "Winchester,"
"Winchester Four Five Eight."

If that rifle could only talk
And take us back again
With grandpa to Africa,
A time of buffalo, elephants and men ...

But that day has set it's sun
And the rifle speaks no more.
Oh what I'd give for one last time
To hear that Winchester roar.

(Parody aimed at the Lottites. Original was about the .404 Jeffery, from page 39 of WHERE ELEPHANTS GO TO DIE by Rege Podraza.)



Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Bob,

Take note of an idea for reinforcing/rebuilding that spare "cracked" buttstock you have.
A steel, brass or thick aircraft aluminum tube lining for the hole the buttstock bolt goes through ?
There are some threaded steel or brass conduit tubes used for making lamps.
They run insulated wires through them to carry the AC current.
Like a piece of allthreaded pipe.
If one can be found long enough and with a big enough hole inside diameter ...



That blued-steel & "gold" grip cap ain't coming off without some destructive effort.
I'm on the lookout for steel, brass, or titanium-aluminum tubes.
Find one of proper ID and OD and just rough up the outside of it to adhere better to epoxy.
Or, have a gunsmith-machinist thread the outside of the tube and thread the buttstock through-hole with same threads,
then epoxy those threads together.
Has this been done before or should Bubba get a patent on this idea ?

Rip ...

Thanks for the ideas RIP. I haven't used it as kindling, it's in the box you sent yours to me in. Yep, I do have plans for it, just have not gotten around to it.

And thanks for promoting the Ruger Tropical in .458 Win Mag. I always coveted one but settled for a #1 in .45-70 -- shorter and lighter, and with the improved throat almost as powerful. But pushing a 500gr Hornady at 2200 fps from an 8.4 lb rifle (ready with scope and one in the chamber) can get your attention when you hit 80! Yeah, I know there are minor loads that work to, and I'd tried all that. But the .458 Ruger No.1 can equal all or any of that with less psi and less recoil. And it can exceed any of those former loads by at least 100 fps - still at less psi and recoil.

With the 1- foot of snow dumped on us a couple of weeks ago now quickly disappearing, I'm expecting to head to the range early April.

Glad to see Stradling back.

RIP, your idea of chopping some 500gr TSX's to 400grs intrigues me greatly, but I don't have any 500s but I do the 450 TSX's. I'm thinking of setting up a system where some 450s could be chopped to 400grs. What would the BC be? I've calculated about .334 BC -- seems reasonable based on what Barnes claims for the 450gr. The 400-X I've pushed to 2590 fps from my 24" Ruger @ 3.61" COL. The powder was H4198 ignited by WLRM primers. Reference was Ackley.

Best regards,

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

quote:

Originally posted by .458 Only:
Thanks for the ideas RIP. I haven't used it as kindling, it's in the box you sent yours to me in. Yep, I do have plans for it, just have not gotten around to it.

That's good, we both have a back-up buttstock for our .458 WIN Ruger No. 1 rifles.
Mine is fiberglass, black B&C, they don't make them anymore.
However, after getting it out and holding it beside Daisy's walnut, it hit me like a ton of bricks:
It would be plumb ugly to do that to her.
First time I ever felt that way about walnut.
Anything else on a Ruger No.1 .458 WIN just won't do. Daisy must wear walnut.
I am going to make sure mine never cracks. 40 years is young for that piece of wood.
Get your mildly cracked buttstock fixed and then do the same to the intact one.
Compare notes here for THE MISSION.

And thanks for promoting the Ruger Tropical in .458 Win Mag. I always coveted one but settled for a #1 in .45-70 -- shorter and lighter, and with the improved throat almost as powerful. But pushing a 500gr Hornady at 2200 fps from an 8.4 lb rifle (ready with scope and one in the chamber) can get your attention when you hit 80!

Yes, and it gets the acute attention of someone 19 years younger than you too !
My 7.25-pound .45-70 No.1 (no scope or ammo) was rechambered for the .45-2.6" Sharps with a Win.Mag. throat.
Adding a 1-pound scope, rings, a pound of ammo on the buttstock and in the chamber,
plus a slip-on recoil pad/LOP adjuster,
will get it up to 9.5 pounds. Shootable with heavy loads, nicer with lighter loads !

Yeah, I know there are minor loads that work to, and I'd tried all that. But the .458 Ruger No.1 can equal all or any of that with less psi and less recoil. And it can exceed any of those former loads by at least 100 fps - still at less psi and recoil.

Yep, all the way through .458 Win-V-3.8", and depth of bullet seating is a non-issue.

With the 1- foot of snow dumped on us a couple of weeks ago now quickly disappearing, I'm expecting to head to the range early April.

The wind still blows here too !
A tornado went through Cookeville, Tennessee last week, 18 souls lost. That is really close to the game farm I used to visit to spear and shoot pigs, water buffalo, fallow deer, turkey (beheading by .300 Weatherby), and the occasional Jacob's Four-Horn or Black Hawaiian ram.
Hope it is still there for the .458 WIN.

Glad to see Stradling back.

Indeed ! THE MISSION could always benefit from more of stradling's stream of consciousness.

RIP, your idea of chopping some 500gr TSX's to 400grs intrigues me greatly, but I don't have any 500s but I do the 450 TSX's.
I'm thinking of setting up a system where some 450s could be chopped to 400grs.

I'd do that too if I ran out of 500-gr TSX.
But I would definitely rather sacrifice the too-long-for-terminal-stability 500-grain TSX.
The 450-grain TSX is great as is.
The two bullets are identical in the forward section except for depth of hollow point, as I am sure you know.
You will only need to shorten the 450-grain TSX by about 0.1" to get it down to 400-grain TSimprovedX (T6).
Go slow and get your first one perfect, save it as a template.
Stop the base filing when you get to within 402 grains,
and do the rest with beveling/chamfering the sharp edge of the base
and chamfering or minimal drilling inside the hollow point.
Use hand tools whenever possible to avoid too rapid copper removal.
And please do tell what Bullet Overall Length you come up with for that method of BBM-ing the 450-grain TSX to 400-gr T6.

What would the BC be? I've calculated about .334 BC -- seems reasonable based on what Barnes claims for the 450gr. The 400-X I've pushed to 2590 fps from my 24" Ruger @ 3.61" COL. The powder was H4198 ignited by WLRM primers. Reference was Ackley.

Barnes claims BC of .412 for the 500-gr TSX and .369 for the 450-gr TSX.
Since with same form factor, BC is proportional to sectional density which is proportional to weight in same-caliber bullets (all .458 here),
I calculated BC of 400-grainer based on shortening the 500-gr TSX: BC = (400/500) X .412 = .330
Based on the 450-grainer: BC = (400/450) X .369 = 0.328
Close enough for BBM.

Best regards,

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Great stuff at Bob's blog, y'all.
All .458 WIN crusaders ought to be reading them.
Buy a buy a donkey donkey for supporting THE MISSION, Bob.

Rip ...

I always enjoy reading Bob at www.bigbores.ca
Shalom Bob.
A life well lived Sir.

Honor shared with those who Honor.

Several weeks have past since an “accident” occurred at the range to my Ruger Tropical in .458 Winchester Magnum. I had just finished firing five medium loads of a 470gr hardcast at around 2075 fps. I then removed the rifle from the Lead Sled, looked it over (which I always do) and to my utter horror noticed a hairline crack extending from where the butt stock attaches to the action for a full 5 – 6 inches, then another crack right where it touches the action!

To put this in perspective, I’d cleaned the barrel and all external parts the evening before coming to the range. I had previously been given a “head’s up” by the “second” man, mentioned above, that the Lead Sled had a reputation of cracking stocks on heavy magnum rifles. There is no “give” for the stock to move rearward under severe recoil, therefore tremendous pressure must be endured by the stock all by itself. (Recently, I’ve abandoned the Lead Sled for the .458 Win., taking that force on my body that moves rearward under recoil.)

Immediately, I knew what was involved. It could not be repaired in any manner that would render it capable of handling .458 Win Mag loads! Replacement might take a year or more! We’re not as fortunate in these matters as those south of the border. Even then, costs could amount to + $500, taking into account shipping from Ruger, Canadian tax, import duties, and exchange on the Canadian dollar! For a senior on a fixed income, that’s no small amount!

I prayed about it, and immediately had peace! I KNEW my Father in heaven would take it in hand, as I had put it there. No worries from that point on! Within a couple of days I mentioned the problem on the AR forum as I’d been sharing test loads, and said I’d not be able to continue due to the cracked butt stock. It was not, believe me, with any intention of getting sympathy or anything else, it was simply to inform others that I’d not be able to continue contributing to the thread on the .458 Win Mag.

Well, Dr. Ron Berry (known as RIP on the forum, except for a few friends who know him as “Ron”) immediately wanted to know how he could get a “spare” (as he called it) to me! We dealt with it privately, and within about a week I had a “new” Tropical butt stock for my Ruger Tropical in .458, pictured on the header! I gave, and owe, many thanks to Ron, but did not forget to give thanks to my heavenly Father! Ron may not know this, but his generous gift was the hand of God in blessing me! As James, the brother of our Lord, wrote it in his epistle: “Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father … who does not change like shifting shadows”. (James 1:17)

It’s Canadian Thanksgiving time, so what an additional reason for offering thanks to my Father above, while not forgetting my generous friend… Thanks again Ron!

Til the next,

Shalom

BOB MITCHELL

I forgot about the Lead Sled being the culprit in Bob's split stock.
Maybe no reinforcement of the "spare" is necessary if the Lead Sled is avoided,
but it would not hurt.
It would indeed be provident even if not providential.

Now I must reveal how ignorant I was about the B&C synthetic stock for the Ruger No.1.
I thought I would practice installing the pillar that I thought Bubba had invented by doing it to the B&C buttstock.

LO AND BEHOLD ! IT IS ALREADY THERE !

I had never shined a flashlight down the hole under the buttpad until today.
There is a circular metal flat at the end of that deep hole
a little bigger in diameter than the washer that the through bolt uses to clamp down against the walnut.
It is non-magnet and silver-colored where the thin spray of black paint has been scratched off by the steel washer abutting there.
At the end of the buttstock that meets the action, shining the flashlight shows that smaller diameter hole has metallic walls too.
I had never noticed this before, assuming the tang and grip portions of the buttstock were just solid-filled fiberglass like on the old McMillan stocks and such.
The paint overspray dried on the entrance walls near the openings of those holes hides the metal very well.
It's probably an aircraft aluminum sort of metal like they use for the bedding blocks in the Medalist bolt-action stocks.
An X-ray of the B&C forend and buttstock would be interesting.

B&C beat Bubba to a bedding block/pillar for the Ruger No.1 buttstock.

I will try to copy it for the walnut buttstock,
like Bubba thought he had invented.
Meanwhile Daisy is going ugly early.

Rip ...

a few pictures of

J.P Smithson Gunmaker's

pair of 458 win mags

right and left hand
both 5 down 1 up

the left is the zastava action both rifles right at 9 pounds

one done one getting close to done







the last photos -- included just so as to---

get your blood up

What action do you use for the RH one? Love that optic pushed forward by the sight. Cool setup.

quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:


Several weeks have past since an “accident” occurred at the range to my Ruger Tropical in .458 Winchester Magnum. I had just finished firing five medium loads of a 470gr hardcast at around 2075 fps. I then removed the rifle from the Lead Sled, looked it over (which I always do) and to my utter horror noticed a hairline crack extending from where the butt stock attaches to the action for a full 5 – 6 inches, then another crack right where it touches the action!

BOB MITCHELL

At the risk of being pounced upon by Lead Sled haters, I feel compelled to offer my own experience. I have been shooting heavy recoil rifles since around 1960, and using my own home made "lead sled" for load development and sighting in. This includes rifles which put the .458 in the shade, such as my .505 SRE and my .577 VSRE, which respectively fire a 570 grain bullet at 2150 fps and a 750 grain bullet at 2050 fps, The .505, I might add, weighs only 8 3/4 pounds, so the recoil is significant.

I have never experienced any damage to a stock from using a lead sled. The secret, in my humble opinion is making sure the butt plate or recoil pad of the rifle is lodged very firmly in the vertical part of the device, so that there is no opportunity for the rifle to get a "running start" before being brought to a stop by the device.

In my experience, the lead sled is just an extension on the theory of the mercury recoil reducers some shooters use in the butts of their shotguns, since, when used properly, it merely adds weight to the rifle, hence lowering recoil. The idea that the lead sled has no give to it is erroneous. I have to push mine back into position after each shot.

This is my own version of the "lead sled", which I built as a rough copy of the German Preuß Gerät (device), which has been used by German gunmakers for over a century to regulate or sight in their products.

Up until this past year, I also used a led sled with no adverse results. That includes a couple of shots with my Merkel 500NE and VC 577NE.

When working up for my buffalo hunt this past summer, I started out with the sled again, just to start reacquainting myself with the rifles, a 375 H&H and 416 Rigby. This with 1 25lb bag of shot on the sled so there was still some movement allowed.

After approximately 10 rounds with the Rigby, stocked with a Match Grade Arms synthetic stock, to my horror, I noticed the stock had cracked from the toe, parallel to the recoil pad, and running up toward the heel, about 3/4 of the way from bottom to top. I could pull the stock apart about an inch at the bottom.

Thought about having it restocked by Wayne at AHR but decided I'd try a repair first. I poured slow set epoxy into the deep part of the crack and smeared the remainder with a tongue depressor. Clamped into place and gave it 24 hours to set.

The repair worked fine but it confirmed reports of the led sled cracking stocks. Now when I hear someone say they use a led sled and haven't had any stocks crack, I say ... Not Yet!

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Up until this past year, I also used a led sled with no adverse results. That includes a couple of shots with my Merkel 500NE and VC 577NE.

When working up for my buffalo hunt this past summer, I started out with the sled again, just to start reacquainting myself with the rifles, a 375 H&H and 416 Rigby. This with 1 25lb bag of shot on the sled so there was still some movement allowed.

After approximately 10 rounds with the Rigby, stocked with a Match Grade Arms synthetic stock, to my horror, I noticed the stock had cracked from the toe, parallel to the recoil pad, and running up toward the heel, about 3/4 of the way from bottom to top. I could pull the stock apart about an inch at the bottom.

Thought about having it restocked by Wayne at AHR but decided I'd try a repair first. I poured slow set epoxy into the deep part of the crack and smeared the remainder with a tongue depressor. Clamped into place and gave it 24 hours to set.

The repair worked fine but it confirmed reports of the led sled cracking stocks. Now when I hear someone say they use a led sled and haven't had any stocks crack, I say ... Not Yet!

The energy has to go somewhere; if the rifle can't move, it has to be absorbed by the rifle.

My lead sled is not anchored to the table and ALWAYS moves back when firing hot loads such as 400 grain DG loads in my Winchester 1895 .405 WCF.
That lead sled has also been used by others that shoot at my friends range and there has been no bad affect to any rifles.

Go figure.

quote:

What action do you use for the RH one? Love that optic pushed forward by the sight. Cool setup.

the argentine mauser action

1909 cost about 200 - 400 bucks so 1/10th of your basic granite mountain action

the lefty was built using a doner 300 win mag we got from Allen about a year back so 750 usd

one of em has the swift bullets bottom medal installed and the zastava has Duane Wiebe's bottom metal on it
-- hope that guy in texas is still making it as it worked out great


the reflex sight is set low and about right for old men

it snaps off

like Joes quick release scope mounts

and you can buy 2 to take to africa

so you have a back up

or more to the ''delta'' point

shoot one of em in with lighter bullets

to work up the planes game you shoot out at 250 yards


after the elephant hide and the buffalo head are both in the salt

a one gun does it all concept
absolutly amazing what you can ring out of a 458 with a little creativity


it's the delta model so quick and accurate

Firstly, I have never used a lead sled, never will, I hope.
I did use lead saddlebags one time.
A 25-pound bag of lead shot hanging on each side of my shoulder, 50 pounds total.
One shot offhand, and never again.
About like leaning your back against a tree before touching off.

I get the deltapoint of that sight stradling posted.
Nice.
I would use the delta-pointed one for my plains game and varmint shooting with the .458 WIN and light bullets,
and use the dot for the close range, heavy-bullet loads.
Shucks, those things are light enough to carry in a pouch in your pants pocket.
I always wear pants when hunting, usually with cargo pockets.
Ready for anything with two of those red dots.

Rip ...

For less than the price of a set of Smithson scope mounts:



The B&C buttstock is 4 ounces lighter than Daisy's walnut buttstock with a 13.5" LOP.
But the above recoil-LOP-pad adds an inch to LOP and 7 ounces.
Daisy is 9#3oz as shown.

Rip ...

A compromise use of synthetic buttstock with walnut forend, because the B&C forend is even uglier than the buttstock,
besides being too long, fat, and squarish in cross-section.
"Threaded pipe" or "pipe nipple" found in the lamp/light-fixture aisle at Lowe's:



The smaller one has an ID of about 0.285" and OD of about .385".
The larger one has an ID of about 0.375" and OD pf about 0.515".
They are steel. The small one could be screwed into the larger one if threading the inside of the big one is undertaken.

Lacking an X-ray of the B&C buttstock, I cannot be sure how exactly they are doing it.
Could just be washer and escutcheon-like pieces of hardware on the ends of the hole for the stock bolt.
My measurements say that only about 3-7/8" of pipe (less than 4") are needed to make the pillar through the walnut stock's grip.
That stock bolt is only 1/4" diameter.

Rip ...

This is a question I posed to a friend who is chairman of the Department of Physics and Astronomy at his university:

"I have a physics question for you. I seem to remember seeing or reading about the following demonstration. An egg is placed on top of a metal plate of say ¼”steel roughly 6”X6” and is dropped to the floor. Of course the egg breaks. Then another egg is put on top of the same plate, but this time is securely taped to the plate, and again dropped. This time the egg remains intact. I’m not quite sure what principle this is supposed to demonstrate, but for me, it reinforces my contention that a rifle, held tightly against the upright portion of a “Lead Sled” will not split its stock when it is fired, since there is no impact with the sled, and the sled and rifle are together moved backward with the force of the recoil.

I have been using such a contraption for over 50 years now, and have never split a stock. The Germans use a similar device called a Preuß Gerät, which is where I got the idea."

This is the answer I received.

"Your understanding of physics and recoil is correct."

quote:

Originally posted by stradling:
a few pictures of

J.P Smithson Gunmaker's

pair of 458 win mags

right and left hand
both 5 down 1 up

the left is the zastava action both rifles right at 9 pounds

one done one getting close to done







the last photos -- included just so as to---

get your blood up

That 458 of Joe's is the first and only rifle I have seen that I would consider trading Old Ugly for .
It not only looks good, but handles spectacularly!

Any idea whose bottom metal is on those Smithson 458s?

quote:

Originally posted by ColoradoMatt:
Any idea whose bottom metal is on those Smithson 458s?

swift and wiebe

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:

quote:

Originally posted by ColoradoMatt:
Any idea whose bottom metal is on those Smithson 458s?

swift and wiebe

Swift OR Wiebe, or is it a combination of the two.

Without looking back through stradling's immense contributions to THE MISSION,
I would say the right-handed Oberndorf has Wiebe bottom metal,
and the left-handed Zastava has the Swift.
It is amazing that that both hold 5 down +1 with such different belly profiles.
Thanks for supporting THE MISSION.

Since stradling's post below,
it is now obvious that it was not so obvious.

The right-handed action has a skinny Swift magazine box
with a custom-made Simpson floor plate so as to fool me.

The left-handed action has a Wiebe complete Mauser bottom metal
on which I suspect Joe Simpson has used the Wiebe M70 XRM trapezoidal tricks.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
That 458 of Joe's is the first and only rifle I have seen that I would consider trading Old Ugly for .
It not only looks good, but handles spectacularly!

I wonder how much boot Phil would want from Joe if he ever did that swap ?

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
That 458 of Joe's is the first and only rifle I have seen that I would consider trading Old Ugly for .
It not only looks good, but handles spectacularly!

I wonder how much boot Phil would want from Joe if he ever did that swap ?

Rip ...

Last time I talked with Joe, he seemed pretty attached to his 458.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
Last time I talked with Joe, he seemed pretty attached to his 458.

Rip ...

Trades like that are best done on an annual basis.

I once traded my John Bivins flintlock longrifle for a turn of the century hammer Purdey 12 ga, with the stipulation that either side could trade back in a year.
We both were happy to handle and use a new treasure for a year, but in the end we're glad to have our original back.

However after using one of Joe's 9.3x62 rifles for a year in order to do a full review for Rifle magazine, I was sorely tempted to send him a check back, rather than his rifle.

And I do have another 458 barreled action that I bought as a spare and have been working on Joe to offer one of his synthetic stocks.