That is a damn interesting idea.

I saw CME’s business partner yesterday. Not sure if CME is going to make it . I am sure he will see this . Perhaps he will pursue it.

On the other hand, if Ibi doesn’t have the money, what will happen. As the old saying in the south goes, you can’t get blood out of a turnip.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
This is an open forum.

And whether we like it or not, subjects do take different directions as in some members minds, it reflects the way they see it.

Why was this thread started?

It wasn't started by anyone actually involved in this sad episode!

Why was THIS thread started? It was started because Andrew started the thread below in an attempt to deflect:

https://forums.accuratereloadi...1411043/m/2711090672

Just more of his attempts to make others look bad.

quote:

On the other hand, if Ibi doesn’t have the money, what will happen. As the old saying in the south goes, you can’t get blood out of a turnip.

Let's assume, though highly doubtful that Ibi doesn't have the money and in which case would make his company bankrupt and theoretically unable to continue operating.

But on the other hand we have reports that all other clients received their refunds which leads us to believe that the coffers are/were not empty several months ago and if there are no funds left the company will go through liquidation process which foresees creditors being paid off first, etc. etc. (Larry you know all this better than I).

It would be interesting to know if Ibi has been awarded any hunting concessions and if there are other outstanding debts, the government could likely appoint an administrator to put things right.

The Zambian authorities however will make sure CME in particular will be attended to as a matter of priority and avoid souring relations because of a renegade operator.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
This is an open forum.

And whether we like it or not, subjects do take different directions as in some members minds, it reflects the way they see it.

Why was this thread started?

It wasn't started by anyone actually involved in this sad episode!

Why was THIS thread started? It was started because Andrew started the thread below in an attempt to deflect:

https://forums.accuratereloadi...1411043/m/2711090672

Just more of his attempts to make others look bad.

Yep…

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
And Ibi might reply that he souvenir in this situation if the government didn’t screw things up!

It might be worth noting that Zambia ranks among the top 5 countries in sub-Saharan Africa as a tourist destination from which it rakes in between $350 to $400m per year.

The Zambian government will not tolerate complaints about a fraudulent deal committed by one of its operators, especially when the formal complaint comes from a foreign diplomatic mission.

I doubt the government would care about excuses related to internal politics within the hunting industry having had an impact on someone's business; fact remains that money was received and goods not delivered and the Zambian tourist industry's name gets tarnished.

It would therefore cost nothing and all to gain, to approach the US Embassy in Lusaka for "assistance".

From experience I very much doubt the Embassy would get involved in commercial dispute. Not saying don't try it, but I would be surprised if they would get involved in any action.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
...
The facts are that after a number of clients asked CMS to "reserve" quota for them, then showed up late season and decided not to shoot the reserved quota thereby leaving CMS stuck with paying for the unharvested quota, CMS announced a policy that hunters seeking to reserve quota would need to pay the trophy fees for such animals in advance. The policy attracted a number of negative comments. As a result, CMS rescinded the policy before a single hunter was ever charged trophy fees for reserved quota. No one was ever charged non-refundable trophy fees.
...

Actually, I was charged 50% of a non-refundable trophy fee for a zebra at Nyakasanga in 2022 up front. My contract for the 2023 Kazuma hunt did state the following: "Pre- booked Plaingame booked will require a 50% non refundable deposit of Trophy fees (applies to eland, zebra, kudu, hyena)".

If the policy is changed it is not reflected in contracts people sign.

quote:

Originally posted by tanks:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
...
The facts are that after a number of clients asked CMS to "reserve" quota for them, then showed up late season and decided not to shoot the reserved quota thereby leaving CMS stuck with paying for the unharvested quota, CMS announced a policy that hunters seeking to reserve quota would need to pay the trophy fees for such animals in advance. The policy attracted a number of negative comments. As a result, CMS rescinded the policy before a single hunter was ever charged trophy fees for reserved quota. No one was ever charged non-refundable trophy fees.
...

Actually, I was charged 50% of a non-refundable trophy fee for a zebra at Nyakasanga in 2022 up front. My contract for the 2023 Kazuma hunt did state the following: "Pre- booked Plaingame booked will require a 50% non refundable deposit of Trophy fees (applies to eland, zebra, kudu, hyena)".

If the policy is changed it is not reflected in contracts people sign.

if you don't mind, how did that hunt turn out?...bob

I wanted to let everyone know that I received a very small payment today from Ibi. It’s a start and hopefully he continues with installments until I am whole.

quote:

Originally posted by tanks:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
...
The facts are that after a number of clients asked CMS to "reserve" quota for them, then showed up late season and decided not to shoot the reserved quota thereby leaving CMS stuck with paying for the unharvested quota, CMS announced a policy that hunters seeking to reserve quota would need to pay the trophy fees for such animals in advance. The policy attracted a number of negative comments. As a result, CMS rescinded the policy before a single hunter was ever charged trophy fees for reserved quota. No one was ever charged non-refundable trophy fees.
...

Actually, I was charged 50% of a non-refundable trophy fee for a zebra at Nyakasanga in 2022 up front. My contract for the 2023 Kazuma hunt did state the following: "Pre- booked Plaingame booked will require a 50% non refundable deposit of Trophy fees (applies to eland, zebra, kudu, hyena)".

If the policy is changed it is not reflected in contracts people sign.

Oh hell, this should be good for another 10 pages….

quote:

Originally posted by tanks:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
...
The facts are that after a number of clients asked CMS to "reserve" quota for them, then showed up late season and decided not to shoot the reserved quota thereby leaving CMS stuck with paying for the unharvested quota, CMS announced a policy that hunters seeking to reserve quota would need to pay the trophy fees for such animals in advance. The policy attracted a number of negative comments. As a result, CMS rescinded the policy before a single hunter was ever charged trophy fees for reserved quota. No one was ever charged non-refundable trophy fees.
...

Actually, I was charged 50% of a non-refundable trophy fee for a zebra at Nyakasanga in 2022 up front. My contract for the 2023 Kazuma hunt did state the following: "Pre- booked Plaingame booked will require a 50% non refundable deposit of Trophy fees (applies to eland, zebra, kudu, hyena)".

If the policy is changed it is not reflected in contracts people sign.

I see this in a contract, and I will tell those involved to *&@#$%!

May be because it worked then, it was tried again, with 100% UNREFUNDABLE trophy fees!

So so happy I don't have to sign ANY contract.

Pierre brought a contract for me to sign.

Told him I don't sign contracts!

He said "Not a problem. Let us go hunt!"

And he turned out to be a perfect gentleman, and an honest professional hunter and we hunted with him again.

And would never hesitate to hunt with him.

Those demanding "non refundable trop[hy fees" can bloody well stick their contract where the sun never shines!

quote:

Originally posted by Cme:
I wanted to let everyone know that I received a very small payment today from Ibi. It’s a start and hopefully he continues with installments until I am whole.

Glad you got something.


I hope he continues to pay.

quote:

Originally posted by Cme:
I wanted to let everyone know that I received a very small payment today from Ibi. It’s a start and hopefully he continues with installments until I am whole.

That is good news!

quote:

Originally posted by bob-mt:

if you don't mind, how did that hunt turn out?...bob

I got a nice old bull. 55 and 54 lbs a side. Here is a link to the shots and pic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cD7-wjTq_bY

quote:

Originally posted by Cme:
I wanted to let everyone know that I received a very small payment today from Ibi. It’s a start and hopefully he continues with installments until I am whole.

I hope those payments continue. This is good news.

quote:

Originally posted by Cme:
I wanted to let everyone know that I received a very small payment today from Ibi. It’s a start and hopefully he continues with installments until I am whole.

Happy for you. At least it is a start. Hope it continues in a timely manner.

Wonder how much pressure these three threads on AR contributed Ibi's actions.

Good news!!! Let's hope it continues to completion...

Great news Corey. While I hope the parties involved see this through to a timely completion, I have to wonder if the very small partial payment was just an effort to take the heat off a bit and create the appearance of substantive progress. Hopefully my skepticism is unjustified and meaningful progress is made in getting you the whole $80K in short order . . . but I won’t hold my breath.

.

For the interest of all the followers - what exactly is a "small payment?"

Are we talking USD 5 tsd or 10 tsd or what ??

Dont keep us guessing ??

.

quote:

Originally posted by Charlie64:
.

For the interest of all the followers - what exactly is a "small payment?"

Are we talking USD 5 tsd or 10 tsd or what ??

Dont keep us guessing ??

.

I know but it is not up to me to say exactly what it is . I will say the number is less than 10% of the total due .

Will those calling for heads demand a percentage as a recovery fee? Surely the jabs must have done something to move this along…

Good news and I look forward to hearing about more payments to come.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Charlie64:
.

For the interest of all the followers - what exactly is a "small payment?"

Are we talking USD 5 tsd or 10 tsd or what ??

Dont keep us guessing ??

.

I know but it is not up to me to say exactly what it is . I will say the number is less than 10% of the total due .

It was $5,000

quote:

Originally posted by Cme:
I wanted to let everyone know that I received a very small payment today from Ibi. It’s a start and hopefully he continues with installments until I am whole.

I won't say that's good news but at least it maybe a signal that Ibi intends to make good the amount he owes you. Unfortunately if he has set that small payment, guessing around $5k, as the level of instalments he will make then even at monthly intervals you will be looking at another 15 months before Ibi's debt to you is cleared.
This is all conjecture of course, you may know better details than that, but we know that you were hoping to have your father accompany you on an African hunt and due to his health condition time was not on his side.
I do hope you and your father can manage something together before too late.
Best wishes.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by tanks:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
...
The facts are that after a number of clients asked CMS to "reserve" quota for them, then showed up late season and decided not to shoot the reserved quota thereby leaving CMS stuck with paying for the unharvested quota, CMS announced a policy that hunters seeking to reserve quota would need to pay the trophy fees for such animals in advance. The policy attracted a number of negative comments. As a result, CMS rescinded the policy before a single hunter was ever charged trophy fees for reserved quota. No one was ever charged non-refundable trophy fees.
...

Actually, I was charged 50% of a non-refundable trophy fee for a zebra at Nyakasanga in 2022 up front. My contract for the 2023 Kazuma hunt did state the following: "Pre- booked Plaingame booked will require a 50% non refundable deposit of Trophy fees (applies to eland, zebra, kudu, hyena)".

If the policy is changed it is not reflected in contracts people sign.

I see this in a contract, and I will tell those involved to *&@#$%!

May be because it worked then, it was tried again, with 100% UNREFUNDABLE trophy fees!

So so happy I don't have to sign ANY contract.

Pierre brought a contract for me to sign.

Told him I don't sign contracts!

He said "Not a problem. Let us go hunt!"

And he turned out to be a perfect gentleman, and an honest professional hunter and we hunted with him again.

And would never hesitate to hunt with him.

Those demanding "non refundable trop[hy fees" can bloody well stick their contract where the sun never shines!

Same here.

Such requirements will NEVER be in any safari contract I sign.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by tanks:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
...
The facts are that after a number of clients asked CMS to "reserve" quota for them, then showed up late season and decided not to shoot the reserved quota thereby leaving CMS stuck with paying for the unharvested quota, CMS announced a policy that hunters seeking to reserve quota would need to pay the trophy fees for such animals in advance. The policy attracted a number of negative comments. As a result, CMS rescinded the policy before a single hunter was ever charged trophy fees for reserved quota. No one was ever charged non-refundable trophy fees.
...

Actually, I was charged 50% of a non-refundable trophy fee for a zebra at Nyakasanga in 2022 up front. My contract for the 2023 Kazuma hunt did state the following: "Pre- booked Plaingame booked will require a 50% non refundable deposit of Trophy fees (applies to eland, zebra, kudu, hyena)".

If the policy is changed it is not reflected in contracts people sign.

I see this in a contract, and I will tell those involved to *&@#$%!

May be because it worked then, it was tried again, with 100% UNREFUNDABLE trophy fees!

So so happy I don't have to sign ANY contract.

Pierre brought a contract for me to sign.

Told him I don't sign contracts!

He said "Not a problem. Let us go hunt!"

And he turned out to be a perfect gentleman, and an honest professional hunter and we hunted with him again.

And would never hesitate to hunt with him.

Those demanding "non refundable trop[hy fees" can bloody well stick their contract where the sun never shines!

Same here.

Such requirements will NEVER be in any safari contract I sign.

Not only that, I would include a clause whereas if I quit in the middle of a hunt and/or miss my quarry I get reparations from the unscrupulous rascal whom sold me the hunt ina well known area.

My god some of you just are like a bunch of gossiping ladys. Many think way to much of themselves and the power they have by talking.

I will look at this as a good sign and doing what they said they would. May not be as fast as most would like it but a start to making cme whole again.

quote:

Originally posted by bcap:
My god some of you just are like a bunch of gossiping ladys. Many think way to much of themselves and the power they have by talking.

I will look at this as a good sign and doing what they said they would. May not be as fast as most would like it but a start to making cme whole again.

Exactly.

The sad truth is that a number of people have posted here and elsewhere on this topic solely for the purpose of making personal attacks for ulterior motives.

They are clearly disappointed by this positive development and are obviously having difficulty hiding it.

Disgraceful but par for the course.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:

quote:

Originally posted by bcap:
My god some of you just are like a bunch of gossiping ladys. Many think way to much of themselves and the power they have by talking.

I will look at this as a good sign and doing what they said they would. May not be as fast as most would like it but a start to making cme whole again.

Exactly.

The sad truth is that a number of people have posted here and elsewhere on this topic solely for the purpose of making personal attacks for ulterior motives.

They are clearly disappointed by this positive development and are obviously having difficulty hiding it.

Disgraceful but par for the course.

Who are “they” lol
Name one person who is “clearly disappointed”

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:

quote:

Originally posted by bcap:
My god some of you just are like a bunch of gossiping ladys. Many think way to much of themselves and the power they have by talking.

I will look at this as a good sign and doing what they said they would. May not be as fast as most would like it but a start to making cme whole again.

Exactly.

The sad truth is that a number of people have posted here and elsewhere on this topic solely for the purpose of making personal attacks for ulterior motives.

They are clearly disappointed by this positive development and are obviously having difficulty hiding it.

Disgraceful but par for the course.

That's rich coming from someone who hasn't sat for a good part of a year $80,000 out of pocket and possibly facing another year plus before the debt is cleared. No hope of any penalty interest being received either for baling out a business he doesn't know with $80,000 for the length of time he has and will continue to do until the debt is paid in full. That's no given either the longer the period of repayments goes on.

You would play a different tune if it was your $80,000 sitting in Ibi's back pocket.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:

quote:

Originally posted by bcap:
My god some of you just are like a bunch of gossiping ladys. Many think way to much of themselves and the power they have by talking.

I will look at this as a good sign and doing what they said they would. May not be as fast as most would like it but a start to making cme whole again.

Exactly.

The sad truth is that a number of people have posted here and elsewhere on this topic solely for the purpose of making personal attacks for ulterior motives.

They are clearly disappointed by this positive development and are obviously having difficulty hiding it.

Disgraceful but par for the course.

That is rich coming from someone that posted a hunt report solely for the purpose of making a personal attack for ulterior motives.!!!!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:

quote:

Originally posted by bcap:
My god some of you just are like a bunch of gossiping ladys. Many think way to much of themselves and the power they have by talking.

I will look at this as a good sign and doing what they said they would. May not be as fast as most would like it but a start to making cme whole again.

Exactly.

The sad truth is that a number of people have posted here and elsewhere on this topic solely for the purpose of making personal attacks for ulterior motives.

They are clearly disappointed by this positive development and are obviously having difficulty hiding it.

Disgraceful but par for the course.

That's rich coming from someone who hasn't sat for a good part of a year $80,000 out of pocket and possibly facing another year plus before the debt is cleared. No hope of any penalty interest being received either for baling out a business he doesn't know with $80,000 for the length of time he has and will continue to do until the debt is paid in full. That's no given either the longer the period of repayments goes on.

You would play a different tune if it was your $80,000 sitting in Ibi's back pocket.

+1

Frankly, I am disappointed.

Not that the client is being paid back his money.

But the way he is being paid!

Little bit at a time, and no one knows how long between payments and how long before all his money is paid.

I have no idea how much he got back.

Or if a payment schedule has been agreed upon.

REFUND means immediate payment!

Anything else is unacceptable!

I agree Saeed. It seems to me that this adds to the stress for CME. Now he is still wondering if and when the next payment will come . Given the number of times Ibi has misrepresented things , I am sure he is wondering.

While I am 100% sure that CME would like the full amount , the $5,000 was better than nothing .

I am happy he got the payment . I also wish it was the full amount .

It has been interesting to get the thoughts on this matter from Zambians at SCI.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Frankly, I am disappointed.

Not that the client is being paid back his money.

But the way he is being paid!

Little bit at a time, and no one knows how long between payments and how long before all his money is paid.

I have no idea how much he got back.

Or if a payment schedule has been agreed upon.

REFUND means immediate payment!

Anything else is unacceptable!

Has hell frozen over? Has Biden suddenly found his brain?
Saeed and I finally agree on one thing in this debacle? I need to buy a lottery ticket,

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Frankly, I am disappointed.

Not that the client is being paid back his money.

But the way he is being paid!

Little bit at a time, and no one knows how long between payments and how long before all his money is paid.

I have no idea how much he got back.

Or if a payment schedule has been agreed upon.

REFUND means immediate payment!

Anything else is unacceptable!

Has hell frozen over? Has Biden suddenly found his brain?
Saeed and I finally agree on one thing in this debacle? I need to buy a lottery ticket,

I am sure there are a million things we can agree on my friend.


On this subject our only disagreement is I don’t put as much blame on Andrew as you do.

Does he have a responsibility for what had happened?

Yes.

And my feeling is he feels the same.

But ultimately he has absolutely no control over Ibi, except to give him a wide birth in the future!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Frankly, I am disappointed.

Not that the client is being paid back his money.

But the way he is being paid!

Little bit at a time, and no one knows how long between payments and how long before all his money is paid.

I have no idea how much he got back.

Or if a payment schedule has been agreed upon.

REFUND means immediate payment!

Anything else is unacceptable!

Has hell frozen over? Has Biden suddenly found his brain?
Saeed and I finally agree on one thing in this debacle? I need to buy a lottery ticket,

I am sure there are a million things we can agree on my friend.


On this subject our only disagreement is I don’t put as much blame on Andrew as you do.

Does he have a responsibility for what had happened?

Yes.

And my feeling is he feels the same.

But ultimately he has absolutely no control over Ibi, except to give him a wide birth in the future!

Wow, we agree again... Heaven is here! Almost.

I'm glad to see CME getting some payments. I hope he gets made whole.

It really shouldn't be anyone's problem anymore other than the parties directly involved.

I can see cme wanting to update everyone on any progress or lack thereof, but for everyone else, what does it matter? Most who followed this thread over the 12 pages have made their mind up about the various players by now, so why post further?

This horse is beat...

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:
It really shouldn't be anyone's problem anymore other than the parties directly involved.

I can see cme wanting to update everyone on any progress or lack thereof, but for everyone else, what does it matter? Most who followed this thread over the 12 pages have made their mind up about the various players by now, so why post further?

This horse is beat...

I think you would have a different view if you were out 80k,it is a problem that got exposure,& there are some results now,this horse is far from being dead,I for one want crooks exposed,you rip off one of ours?your cash flow will suffer,if cme does not get compensated?it will cost in lost revenue & loss of reputation.

I sometimes wonder if a complaint has not been posted here, and the posts that follow, don't help expedite things along.

Buzz demanded a FULL NON REFUNDABLE trophy fees, and someone complained here.

The outcry against this stupid policy made him change his mind.

It transpired that this was NOT the first time this was done.

A member posted that they demanded 50% non refundable trophy fees before!!!???

We never knew this.

Must have given them enough courage to demand 100%.

Which exactly what had happened.

And Bill, you are right.

Crooks, no matter who they are, must be exposed.