quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . he marketed and sold the hunt, Corey would have never even known much less dealt with Ibi but for Andrew who obviously explicitly or implicitly communicated that paying Ibi was okay and that Ibi was someone who could be trusted. Sorry, someone that initiated, facilitated and ultimately caused the transaction with Ibi to be consummated does not get a pass in my view, much less deserve to be called a victim. Then to tell Corey good luck getting your money from Ibi, that’s just reprehensible.

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Can they confirm how Ibi distributed funds?

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Originally posted by Lhook7:

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Originally posted by Frostbit:

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Originally posted by dogcat:

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Originally posted by Saeed:

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Originally posted by dogcat:

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Originally posted by Safari2:

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Originally posted by dogcat:
Silence tells us that Ibi has not sent any money nor has Andrew...

Thanks for keeping this thread alive dogcat.

I don't intend to let it go. This is similar to the thread on Blair Hunting International.

Saeed and I have a disagreement due to our perspective. I fully understand that you believe the government is to blame. I see it that Baldry and Ibi are to blame and they are accountable. The government did not take the money - Ibi did at Andrew's direct instruction. In my world, Andrew and Ibi are the problem here. They spent money that was a deposit... now can't pay it back.

Can you show me how Andrew spent any money received from Ibi?

Ibi,by Andrew's admission, said that the other hunters got their deposits back. Obviously, Ibi spent it or he would have refunded it.

That answer did not address Saeed's question, which was specifically..........

"Can you show me how Andrew spent any money received from Ibi?"

Can you or Saeed show where he did not?

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Andrew was and is an accomplice to the bigger crook. He does bear some responsibility.

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Originally posted by Frostbit:

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Originally posted by Lhook7:

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Originally posted by Frostbit:

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Originally posted by dogcat:

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Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by Safari2:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
Silence tells us that Ibi has not sent any money nor has Andrew...

Thanks for keeping this thread alive dogcat.

I don't intend to let it go. This is similar to the thread on Blair Hunting International.

Saeed and I have a disagreement due to our perspective. I fully understand that you believe the government is to blame. I see it that Baldry and Ibi are to blame and they are accountable. The government did not take the money - Ibi did at Andrew's direct instruction. In my world, Andrew and Ibi are the problem here. They spent money that was a deposit... now can't pay it back.

Can you show me how Andrew spent any money received from Ibi?

Ibi,by Andrew's admission, said that the other hunters got their deposits back. Obviously, Ibi spent it or he would have refunded it.

That answer did not address Saeed's question, which was specifically..........

"Can you show me how Andrew spent any money received from Ibi?"

Can you or Saeed show where he did not?

No, I can not. I was not involved in this affair in any way other than reading this thread. Were you?

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

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Originally posted by Lhook7:

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Originally posted by Frostbit:

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Originally posted by dogcat:

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Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by Safari2:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
Silence tells us that Ibi has not sent any money nor has Andrew...

Thanks for keeping this thread alive dogcat.

I don't intend to let it go. This is similar to the thread on Blair Hunting International.

Saeed and I have a disagreement due to our perspective. I fully understand that you believe the government is to blame. I see it that Baldry and Ibi are to blame and they are accountable. The government did not take the money - Ibi did at Andrew's direct instruction. In my world, Andrew and Ibi are the problem here. They spent money that was a deposit... now can't pay it back.

Can you show me how Andrew spent any money received from Ibi?

Ibi,by Andrew's admission, said that the other hunters got their deposits back. Obviously, Ibi spent it or he would have refunded it.

That answer did not address Saeed's question, which was specifically..........

"Can you show me how Andrew spent any money received from Ibi?"

Can you or Saeed show where he did not?

No, I can not. I was not involved in this affair in any way other than reading this thread. Were you?

No, I was not.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
https://forums.accuratereloadi...641055962#6641055962

Interesting that this hunt was advertised here on AR. Read the comments and one will see that CME commented.

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:
I don’t want to continue a quote discussion. I am disappointed that you chose to edit my response in your quote when I accurately quoted yours. Much like Andrew has edited his posts to try to minimize his part in this sordid affair. If you can find a flaw in my actual response to you, please post it.

quote:

Originally posted by Cme:
Andrew introduced me to the outfitter and I’m in the process of finalizing my hunt with the outfitter for 2023. Besides the deal on the Buffalo for an additional hunter the outfitter offers great rates on other animals as well. The outfitter has been very easy to work with a very accommodating.

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Originally posted by fairgame:
I am afraid I am going to have to pull out of this one as I am committed elsewhere. However, I have posted another great Leopard deal on the forum.

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Originally posted by Frostbit:
Was Chanjuzi closed to hunting on February 10, 2022? I ask because that is the date Andrew offered the hunt on here.

Then later in the thread CME posted......

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Originally posted by Cme:
Andrew introduced me to the outfitter and I’m in the process of finalizing my hunt with the outfitter for 2023. Besides the deal on the Buffalo for an additional hunter the outfitter offers great rates on other animals as well. The outfitter has been very easy to work with a very accommodating.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Do you have answers to those questions?

These may have been answered elsewhere. I apologize if they have been answered elsewhere.

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Originally posted by larryshores:
I see.

Surely one could find out about the timing of the concession issues.

quote:

A Lusaka High Court judge, Sharon Newa, ruled that permanent secretary Muhanga’s 4 May 2022 decision, was illegal because only the procuring entity, which is the Zambia Department of National Parks and Wildlife Licencing Committee has the jurisdiction to cancel hunting concession agreements.

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:
On the 10th February 2022 Andrew advertised an offer that was made to him (presumably by the outfitter):

"I have been offered a great opportunity for Leopard in a prime area of the Luangwa Valley - Chanjuzi."

This was followed by a number of very positive replies (no negative ones) by several well known and highly respected posters.

On 17th March 2022 Cme posted:

"Andrew introduced me to the outfitter and I’m in the process of finalizing my hunt with the outfitter for 2023. Besides the deal on the Buffalo for an additional hunter the outfitter offers great rates on other animals as well. The outfitter has been very easy to work with an very accommodating".

On 25th March 2022 Andrew withdrew:

"I am afraid I am going to have to pull out of this one as I am committed elsewhere. However, I have posted another great Leopard deal on the forum".

From what can be understood, Andrew put Cme in contact with the outfitter who has in the past produced and delivered the goods in an area known to a number of respected posters and an agent among others, who had nothing but good things to say about the outfitter and the area.

Andrew did NOT sell the hunt, as clearly stated by Cme.

The way I know it, when a PH or agent sells a hunt on behalf of the outfitter there is either a hike in price or an established/agreed commission between the two who are then known to be the "seller", to whom the full amount is paid to be disbursed accordingly and which, in this saga, appears otherwise.

Once more, has Ibi confirmed that he paid a commission of sorts to the alleged"seller"?

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Originally posted by Lhook7:
Before Andrew edited his posts, it was pretty apparent that the initial funds were received before the closure, but the additional funds were requested after the closure.

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No sir…. Andrew represented and Sold the hunt…period.

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Originally posted by fulvio:

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No sir…. Andrew represented and Sold the hunt…period.

"Andrew introduced me to the outfitter and I’m in the process of finalizing my hunt with the outfitter for 2023".

So according to your logic Andrew is liable (that is what it boils down to) because he introduced Cme to the outfitter.

There is also a strong possibility that Cme was further convinced and emboldened by the flowery comments of assurance provided by other respectable gents on the forum to book the hunt directly with the outfitter (Ibi); are they too accomplices?

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Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

No sir…. Andrew represented and Sold the hunt…period.

"Andrew introduced me to the outfitter and I’m in the process of finalizing my hunt with the outfitter for 2023".

So according to your logic Andrew is liable (that is what it boils down to) because he introduced Cme to the outfitter.

There is also a strong possibility that Cme was further convinced and emboldened by the flowery comments of assurance provided by other respectable gents on the forum to book the hunt directly with the outfitter (Ibi); are they too accomplices?

I get many PM's during the year from AR members asking for boots on the ground advice concerning Alaskan guides, hunting and fishing locations, specific timing of trips, etc. I suppose I should consider stopping that help.

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Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

No sir…. Andrew represented and Sold the hunt…period.

"Andrew introduced me to the outfitter and I’m in the process of finalizing my hunt with the outfitter for 2023".

So according to your logic Andrew is liable (that is what it boils down to) because he introduced Cme to the outfitter.

There is also a strong possibility that Cme was further convinced and emboldened by the flowery comments of assurance provided by other respectable gents on the forum to book the hunt directly with the outfitter (Ibi); are they too accomplices?

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Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

No sir…. Andrew represented and Sold the hunt…period.

"Andrew introduced me to the outfitter and I’m in the process of finalizing my hunt with the outfitter for 2023".

So according to your logic Andrew is liable (that is what it boils down to) because he introduced Cme to the outfitter.

There is also a strong possibility that Cme was further convinced and emboldened by the flowery comments of assurance provided by other respectable gents on the forum to book the hunt directly with the outfitter (Ibi); are they too accomplices?

I get many PM's during the year from AR members asking for boots on the ground advice concerning Alaskan guides, hunting and fishing locations, specific timing of trips, etc. I suppose I should consider stopping that help.

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Originally posted by larryshores:

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Originally posted by Frostbit:

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Originally posted by fulvio:

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No sir…. Andrew represented and Sold the hunt…period.

"Andrew introduced me to the outfitter and I’m in the process of finalizing my hunt with the outfitter for 2023".

So according to your logic Andrew is liable (that is what it boils down to) because he introduced Cme to the outfitter.

There is also a strong possibility that Cme was further convinced and emboldened by the flowery comments of assurance provided by other respectable gents on the forum to book the hunt directly with the outfitter (Ibi); are they too accomplices?

I get many PM's during the year from AR members asking for boots on the ground advice concerning Alaskan guides, hunting and fishing locations, specific timing of trips, etc. I suppose I should consider stopping that help.

You aren’t advertising that help.

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Originally posted by Kpoynter:

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Originally posted by Frostbit:

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Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

No sir…. Andrew represented and Sold the hunt…period.

"Andrew introduced me to the outfitter and I’m in the process of finalizing my hunt with the outfitter for 2023".

So according to your logic Andrew is liable (that is what it boils down to) because he introduced Cme to the outfitter.

There is also a strong possibility that Cme was further convinced and emboldened by the flowery comments of assurance provided by other respectable gents on the forum to book the hunt directly with the outfitter (Ibi); are they too accomplices?

I get many PM's during the year from AR members asking for boots on the ground advice concerning Alaskan guides, hunting and fishing locations, specific timing of trips, etc. I suppose I should consider stopping that help.

Jim that is WILDLY different than what happened here

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

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Originally posted by Kpoynter:

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Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

No sir…. Andrew represented and Sold the hunt…period.

"Andrew introduced me to the outfitter and I’m in the process of finalizing my hunt with the outfitter for 2023".

So according to your logic Andrew is liable (that is what it boils down to) because he introduced Cme to the outfitter.

There is also a strong possibility that Cme was further convinced and emboldened by the flowery comments of assurance provided by other respectable gents on the forum to book the hunt directly with the outfitter (Ibi); are they too accomplices?

I get many PM's during the year from AR members asking for boots on the ground advice concerning Alaskan guides, hunting and fishing locations, specific timing of trips, etc. I suppose I should consider stopping that help.

Jim that is WILDLY different than what happened here

Agreed, but as I mentioned to Larry above I meant to reference Fulvio's statement about others posting on the original thread being accomplices?

I realize it's a facetious statement.

quote:

Originally posted by Kpoynter:

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Originally posted by Frostbit:

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Originally posted by Kpoynter:

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Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

No sir…. Andrew represented and Sold the hunt…period.

"Andrew introduced me to the outfitter and I’m in the process of finalizing my hunt with the outfitter for 2023".

So according to your logic Andrew is liable (that is what it boils down to) because he introduced Cme to the outfitter.

There is also a strong possibility that Cme was further convinced and emboldened by the flowery comments of assurance provided by other respectable gents on the forum to book the hunt directly with the outfitter (Ibi); are they too accomplices?

I get many PM's during the year from AR members asking for boots on the ground advice concerning Alaskan guides, hunting and fishing locations, specific timing of trips, etc. I suppose I should consider stopping that help.

Jim that is WILDLY different than what happened here

Agreed, but as I mentioned to Larry above I meant to reference Fulvio's statement about others posting on the original thread being accomplices?

I realize it's a facetious statement.

True…you also posted the GMAs
Unfortunately for all involved the Chanjuzi GMA wasn’t part of that and probably should not have been. The outfitter and Andrew were betting on the come….everyone was screwed here in some level and everyone was hurt.
It’s horrible
That’s why Saeed repeatedly points at the Zambian government and it is true that they are the ultimate root of the issues plaguing these folks

quote:

By doing so you seem to imply (and again here) that Andrew has zero responsibility…
He absolutely does
His responsibility that most here believe he has is to do everything he can to help resolve the matter and to help facilitate a refund with the outfitter he represented and sold the hunt for.