quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
You left out a few parts . . . like Andrew marketing and selling the hunt in the first instance, like Andrew setting the client up with Ibi, like Andrew changing his story repeatedly here and editing old posts to be consistent with the evolving story, like Andrew telling everyone the client's issues were with Ibi and it was out of his hands after he put the whole hunt together, etc. Do you think the client ever would have ever paid Ibi but for Andrew selling the hunt that way and assuring the client all was good? You want to paint Andrew as a victim, he was involved in the deal from its inception all the way until the deal went tits up and then he wants to pretend it is all Ibi's issue. Some folks actually feel that an outfitter selling and booking a hunt has a bit more responsibility than that to make the situation right.

Exactly!

Exactly +1

I think what escapes some of the guys in the outfitting, PH game, is that many, MANY of us ran businesses to get the disposable income to afford these expensive, hunting vacations.

To that end, “we ain’t a bunch of rubes that just started at this.” I’ve dealt with employees and other business associates of all types, my whole career. Most of them think they are/were fooling me. You’d better get up early, pack a lunch and bring a flashlight, cuz you’re gonna get hungry and it’s gonna get dark, waiting to fool me.

I see straw-men, much obfuscation and finger pointing here. To try to claim no responsibility after pursuing Cme on another forum, via PM, I call BS.

I have no solution to offer Cme other than offering up support and some compassion for his situation. 80k is a huge sum to be out.

Robbing Peter to pay Paul flat out sucks. As I stated earlier, I’ve never operated my business that way.

If the outfitting business model works like that, it’s obviously a failing business model.

Steve

I receive AH notifications all the time and really what is so wrong with pursuing hunting opportunities on other forums?

I get your business ethics but then again you did not have your company stolen from you or all your contracts cancelled. Business in Africa is a different ball game and you tread lightly here.

Who is claiming no responsibility? I am the only one communicating with Cme to resolve this.

I did not rob anyone and at the end of the day, I also got shafted and had to reshuffle and seek reimbursements and deal with operators who fucked me with daily rates and trophy fees.

Let me try to clarify- I get it that the Government caused this cluster to begin with. The margins for error are clearly very very small.

I myself have hunted with several PH’s that use your same business model. Wayne Grant in Tanzania was the same arrangement. I’ve never had something like this or even close to this occur. (In Africa)

My point here is that you do bear some responsibility. I’m not saying total financial responsibility but you in fact made the deal possible to begin with.


The fact that Ibi used Cme’s deposit to repay everyone but Cme, really sucks.

I don’t pretend to know your financial situation and it’s none of my business, is it possible to get loans in Zambia for GMA’s? Seems you having a block of your own would eventually lead to smoother sailing.

I for one know what a 80,000 dollar loss would feel like, a kick, square in the sack.

Steve, you got fucked over in Tanzania and you posted your experience on AR. Did you make a claim and did you get any money back? And what did that cost you?

So I introduced a client to a bonified operator and there were no red flags to either me or Cme until many months later.

Mjines is a jerk and feels he has some cuddly responsibility to Buzz whom I apparently I threw under the bus. Is Buzz bothered by what Andrew Baldry thinks? But Mike now has whittled down his accusations to my editing of texts. No wonder he is retired.

Yes, I got roundly fucked over in Tanzania. But it was a hunt through Federico Gelinni, not my last experience in Ibanda with Wayne Grant. That was a great trip.

Federico really didn’t lie, he simply misrepresented the facts based on my questions. IE: I asked “How many camps are in the GMA?” He answered “one”. I then ask “I want a private camp” he answered “yes”.

When I arrive I’m in a shithole fly camp 2 hours from the beginning of hunting, out in the sun. The main camp had 7 Chinese guys hunting Lions, Leopards and Elephants.

I know emotions are running high on this. I enjoyed our time together in Bangweulu and I’ll let this go.

I simply hope all parties can walk away whole.

Good luck to all.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
You left out a few parts . . . like Andrew marketing and selling the hunt in the first instance, like Andrew setting the client up with Ibi, like Andrew changing his story repeatedly here and editing old posts to be consistent with the evolving story, like Andrew telling everyone the client's issues were with Ibi and it was out of his hands after he put the whole hunt together, etc. Do you think the client ever would have ever paid Ibi but for Andrew selling the hunt that way and assuring the client all was good? You want to paint Andrew as a victim, he was involved in the deal from its inception all the way until the deal went tits up and then he wants to pretend it is all Ibi's issue. Some folks actually feel that an outfitter selling and booking a hunt has a bit more responsibility than that to make the situation right.

Exactly!

Exactly +1

I think what escapes some of the guys in the outfitting, PH game, is that many, MANY of us ran businesses to get the disposable income to afford these expensive, hunting vacations.

To that end, “we ain’t a bunch of rubes that just started at this.” I’ve dealt with employees and other business associates of all types, my whole career. Most of them think they are/were fooling me. You’d better get up early, pack a lunch and bring a flashlight, cuz you’re gonna get hungry and it’s gonna get dark, waiting to fool me.

I see straw-men, much obfuscation and finger pointing here. To try to claim no responsibility after pursuing Cme on another forum, via PM, I call BS.

I have no solution to offer Cme other than offering up support and some compassion for his situation. 80k is a huge sum to be out.

Robbing Peter to pay Paul flat out sucks. As I stated earlier, I’ve never operated my business that way.

If the outfitting business model works like that, it’s obviously a failing business model.

Steve

I receive AH notifications all the time and really what is so wrong with pursuing hunting opportunities on other forums?

I get your business ethics but then again you did not have your company stolen from you or all your contracts cancelled. Business in Africa is a different ball game and you tread lightly here.

Who is claiming no responsibility? I am the only one communicating with Cme to resolve this.

I did not rob anyone and at the end of the day, I also got shafted and had to reshuffle and seek reimbursements and deal with operators who fucked me with daily rates and trophy fees.

Let me try to clarify- I get it that the Government caused this cluster to begin with. The margins for error are clearly very very small.

I myself have hunted with several PH’s that use your same business model. Wayne Grant in Tanzania was the same arrangement. I’ve never had something like this or even close to this occur. (In Africa)

My point here is that you do bear some responsibility. I’m not saying total financial responsibility but you in fact made the deal possible to begin with.


The fact that Ibi used Cme’s deposit to repay everyone but Cme, really sucks.

I don’t pretend to know your financial situation and it’s none of my business, is it possible to get loans in Zambia for GMA’s? Seems you having a block of your own would eventually lead to smoother sailing.

I for one know what a 80,000 dollar loss would feel like, a kick, square in the sack.

Steve, you got fucked over in Tanzania and you posted your experience on AR. Did you make a claim and did you get any money back? And what did that cost you?

So I introduced a client to a bonified operator and there were no red flags to either me or Cme until many months later.

Mjines is a jerk and feels he has some cuddly responsibility to Buzz whom I apparently I threw under the bus. Is Buzz bothered by what Andrew Baldry thinks? But Mike now has whittled down his accusations to my editing of texts. No wonder he is retired.

Yes, I got roundly fucked over in Tanzania. But it was a hunt through Federico Gelinni, not my last experience in Ibanda with Wayne Grant. That was a great trip.

Federico really didn’t lie, he simply misrepresented the facts based on my questions. IE: I asked “How many camps are in the GMA?” He answered “one”. I then ask “I want a private camp” he answered “yes”.

When I arrive I’m in a shithole fly camp 2 hours from the beginning of hunting, out in the sun. The main camp had 7 Chinese guys hunting Lions, Leopards and Elephants.

I know emotions are running high on this. I enjoyed our time together in Bangweulu and I’ll let this go.

I simply hope all parties can walk away whole.

Good luck to all.

Bloody hell!

That is terrible!

I would have packed and gone home!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
You left out a few parts . . . like Andrew marketing and selling the hunt in the first instance, like Andrew setting the client up with Ibi, like Andrew changing his story repeatedly here and editing old posts to be consistent with the evolving story, like Andrew telling everyone the client's issues were with Ibi and it was out of his hands after he put the whole hunt together, etc. Do you think the client ever would have ever paid Ibi but for Andrew selling the hunt that way and assuring the client all was good? You want to paint Andrew as a victim, he was involved in the deal from its inception all the way until the deal went tits up and then he wants to pretend it is all Ibi's issue. Some folks actually feel that an outfitter selling and booking a hunt has a bit more responsibility than that to make the situation right.

Exactly!

Exactly +1

I think what escapes some of the guys in the outfitting, PH game, is that many, MANY of us ran businesses to get the disposable income to afford these expensive, hunting vacations.

To that end, “we ain’t a bunch of rubes that just started at this.” I’ve dealt with employees and other business associates of all types, my whole career. Most of them think they are/were fooling me. You’d better get up early, pack a lunch and bring a flashlight, cuz you’re gonna get hungry and it’s gonna get dark, waiting to fool me.

I see straw-men, much obfuscation and finger pointing here. To try to claim no responsibility after pursuing Cme on another forum, via PM, I call BS.

I have no solution to offer Cme other than offering up support and some compassion for his situation. 80k is a huge sum to be out.

Robbing Peter to pay Paul flat out sucks. As I stated earlier, I’ve never operated my business that way.

If the outfitting business model works like that, it’s obviously a failing business model.

Steve

I receive AH notifications all the time and really what is so wrong with pursuing hunting opportunities on other forums?

I get your business ethics but then again you did not have your company stolen from you or all your contracts cancelled. Business in Africa is a different ball game and you tread lightly here.

Who is claiming no responsibility? I am the only one communicating with Cme to resolve this.

I did not rob anyone and at the end of the day, I also got shafted and had to reshuffle and seek reimbursements and deal with operators who fucked me with daily rates and trophy fees.

Let me try to clarify- I get it that the Government caused this cluster to begin with. The margins for error are clearly very very small.

I myself have hunted with several PH’s that use your same business model. Wayne Grant in Tanzania was the same arrangement. I’ve never had something like this or even close to this occur. (In Africa)

My point here is that you do bear some responsibility. I’m not saying total financial responsibility but you in fact made the deal possible to begin with.


The fact that Ibi used Cme’s deposit to repay everyone but Cme, really sucks.

I don’t pretend to know your financial situation and it’s none of my business, is it possible to get loans in Zambia for GMA’s? Seems you having a block of your own would eventually lead to smoother sailing.

I for one know what a 80,000 dollar loss would feel like, a kick, square in the sack.

Steve, you got fucked over in Tanzania and you posted your experience on AR. Did you make a claim and did you get any money back? And what did that cost you?

So I introduced a client to a bonified operator and there were no red flags to either me or Cme until many months later.

Mjines is a jerk and feels he has some cuddly responsibility to Buzz whom I apparently I threw under the bus. Is Buzz bothered by what Andrew Baldry thinks? But Mike now has whittled down his accusations to my editing of texts. No wonder he is retired.

Yes, I got roundly fucked over in Tanzania. But it was a hunt through Federico Gelinni, not my last experience in Ibanda with Wayne Grant. That was a great trip.

Federico really didn’t lie, he simply misrepresented the facts based on my questions. IE: I asked “How many camps are in the GMA?” He answered “one”. I then ask “I want a private camp” he answered “yes”.

When I arrive I’m in a shithole fly camp 2 hours from the beginning of hunting, out in the sun. The main camp had 7 Chinese guys hunting Lions, Leopards and Elephants.

I know emotions are running high on this. I enjoyed our time together in Bangweulu and I’ll let this go.

I simply hope all parties can walk away whole.

Good luck to all.

Bloody hell!

That is terrible!

I would have packed and gone home!

It was a terrible shit show. that said, I had one of the most productive hunting days of my life. I shot a very nice old (and deaf) Dugga Boy, first thing out. Shortly after I shot a very nice bushbuck. While taking pictures a good Sable walked buy and I shot him too.

We went back to camp, long drive. Dumped off the animals at the skiing shed, had lunch. Went back out and got on a group of 8-9 Dugga Boys, made a short stalk and killed a 42" Bull.

But the area (Kilwa) was a communal area. There was a guy building a great big house right near the only water for miles. Hundreds of people in the bush, lots of wood poachers and no anti-poaching at all. Poached Elephants lay dead everywhere.

The PH was an American guy who was scared to death of Buffalo. He never went up close to get it done, just myself and his lead guy, which was fine.

There are a whole bunch of posters that need to get off their high horse IMO.

So far, the accusations against Fairgame from the peanut gallery can be summarized as:
- He is guilty of selling the hunt to Cme, hence he is 100% responsible for the refund even though he did not receive a cent.
- He is a crook because he has done nothing to refund Cme
- He does not intend to refund Cme

Yet Fairgame has stated more than once that he intends to make sure Cme receives his money back in full. None of us know Fairgame's financial or personal situation, yet some of you make it sound like Fairgame has $80k sitting in his bank account gathering dust. Preaching from your position of privilege about what you would've done in his shoes or how you handle your business transactions with zero knowledge about what he is up against.

I don't know Fairgame from Adam, but I for one, have no reason to doubt his honorable intentions to ensure Cme is refunded in full, and that he is applying his best efforts and resources to achieve that. He's the best chance Cme has. I just hope he doesn't have to use a penny from his pockets to do so despite him alluding he is likely going to have to do so.

I have resisted the temptation to jump into this shit show, but I am with Bwana on this one.

quote:

Originally posted by squeezenhope:
I have resisted the temptation to jump into this shit show, but I am with Bwana on this one.

Likewise, 100%

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:
There are a whole bunch of posters that need to get off their high horse IMO.

So far, the accusations against Fairgame from the peanut gallery can be summarized as:
- He is guilty of selling the hunt to Cme, hence he is 100% responsible for the refund even though he did not receive a cent.
- He is a crook because he has done nothing to refund Cme
- He does not intend to refund Cme

Yet Fairgame has stated more than once that he intends to make sure Cme receives his money back in full. None of us know Fairgame's financial or personal situation, yet some of you make it sound like Fairgame has $80k sitting in his bank account gathering dust. Preaching from your position of privilege about what you would've done in his shoes or how you handle your business transactions with zero knowledge about what he is up against.

I don't know Fairgame from Adam, but I for one, have no reason to doubt his honorable intentions to ensure Cme is refunded in full, and that he is applying his best efforts and resources to achieve that. He's the best chance Cme has. I just hope he doesn't have to use a penny from his pockets to do so despite him alluding he is likely going to have to do so.

Exactly!

And some of those involved in this scape goating are the sort of people who will never piss on you if they see you on fire!

Andrew Baldry is broke. Fixing old wrecks of cars to scrape a living. His concession at Royal Kafue was stolen from him by an American too rich for him to fight effectively.
Now a bunch of extremely wealthy guys in America who have never had to try and do business in Africa are amusing themselves by kicking a poor man when he is down and out.
While assassinating Andrew's character on this forum perhaps they should look in the mirror.
Let those who are without fault amongst you, cast the first stone!

quote:

Originally posted by the Pom:
Let those who are without fault amongst you, cast the first stone!

That’s ironic. Interesting choice of an adage. That’s precisely what brought the whole Cme situation to light. Cme read a post by Andrew trashing another outfitter for screwing a client and irritated with the hypocrisy of Andrew’s post, Cme called Andrew out. Timely to remember that it was Andrew’s hypocrisy that brought this whole matter to light and interesting that it was Andrew’s client Cme, frustrated with Andrew’s handling of his situation, that resulted in this mess. Efforts to paint Andrew as a victim and others as the source of all of Andrew’s grief are disingenuous at best. Andrew would have been better served by heeding the quoted adage himself.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:
There are a whole bunch of posters that need to get off their high horse IMO.

So far, the accusations against Fairgame from the peanut gallery can be summarized as:
- He is guilty of selling the hunt to Cme, hence he is 100% responsible for the refund even though he did not receive a cent.
- He is a crook because he has done nothing to refund Cme
- He does not intend to refund Cme

Yet Fairgame has stated more than once that he intends to make sure Cme receives his money back in full. None of us know Fairgame's financial or personal situation, yet some of you make it sound like Fairgame has $80k sitting in his bank account gathering dust. Preaching from your position of privilege about what you would've done in his shoes or how you handle your business transactions with zero knowledge about what he is up against.

I don't know Fairgame from Adam, but I for one, have no reason to doubt his honorable intentions to ensure Cme is refunded in full, and that he is applying his best efforts and resources to achieve that. He's the best chance Cme has. I just hope he doesn't have to use a penny from his pockets to do so despite him alluding he is likely going to have to do so.

Exactly!

And some of those involved in this scape goating are the sort of people who will never piss on you if they see you on fire!

you sum up baddly the fiasco that some tried to put Andrew under the bus.

i thought CAR was bad but when my boss has the ideas to do some business in Zambia and im talking at the end of the 80s ...

those who have done business or lived in africa might a different vision on the fiasco that is affecting the ph that tried to make it works and of course the ones that dropped money and maybe not to be recovered but this is not the responsivility of andrew to recover but despite he is trying.

The onslaught is spearheaded by know it all, ignorant idiots!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
The onslaught is spearheaded by know it all, ignorant idiots!

Not at all unlike the character and business assassination of Buzz Charlton by some here.....

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
The onslaught is spearheaded by know it all, ignorant idiots!

Not at all unlike the character and business assassination of Buzz Charlton by some here.....

Buzz has always been welcome here.

For years.

He started blocking hunters faces in pictures he posted here.

I don’t like to see faces obscured, neither do many other members.

I posted I did like it, because it gives the impression that we are ASHAMED of what we are doing.

He could post pictures without those who wished to be hidden.

Turned out very few people wanted to have their faces hidden.

Including members here.

But, he took it upon himself to decide for them

Then a member here posted that someone was demanding NON REFUNDABLE TROPHY fees.

Not many here liked that idea.

Turned out it was Buzz who came up with this stupid idea.

As soon as he saw that some members here did not like his new policies, he gets his knickers in the twist, and threatens that he will never post anything here again!

That is the attitude of someone with the mentality of a 10 year old.

He could have stated that mistakes were made, and lessons learned.

But he chose to run away.

Saeed,
I sat with Buzz for an hour at DSC. I asked him what was up. There was a lot more to the story than was aired here. Primarily, the issue on mandatory fees stems from hunters choosing not to shoot or accept shots on animals they committed to hunt. You do not agree with that because of the way you choose to hunt with you to go TZ.

As know in TZ, you are required to book a preset number of days to get access to the species you want to hunt. This is a similar practice in that you are being forced to pay more up front to get access to what you want to hunt. This may not upset you as you have been hunting TZ since I have been posting here.

I have hunted TZ once only because of this practice. So, what do I do? I don't hunt TZ. You don't have to hunt Zim or even hunt the animals offered if you don't like the terms of the deal.

Buzz and his group are good guys. I booked a hunt with Dean Kendall, whom you have hunted with in TZ. So, I would think you would step back and reset on Buzz and CMS as people who are reputable and are "good guys" hunt with him and work for him.
Crooks don't attract honest people.

On faded out faces - that is the hunters choice. Further, if a choice is not made, I assume Buzz opts to fade them out so as not to violate someone's wishes. In my case, I could care less. However, I have hunted with an outfit that never posts photos out of retaliation in thier own home country. To each his own.

You have always seemed a common sense guy in your posts and hosting this website. I have been posting here 20 years and rarely have seen something that just does not add up. In this case, it does not add up.

On this issue, you may be over-reacting a bit. Again, your choice obviiously....

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
Saeed,
I sat with Buzz for an hour at DSC. I asked him what was up. There was a lot more to the story than was aired here. Primarily, the issue on mandatory fees stems from hunters choosing not to shoot or accept shots on animals they committed to hunt. You do not agree with that because of the way you choose to hunt with you to go TZ.

As know in TZ, you are required to book a preset number of days to get access to the species you want to hunt. This is a similar practice in that you are being forced to pay more up front to get access to what you want to hunt. This may not upset you as you have been hunting TZ since I have been posting here.

I have hunted TZ once only because of this practice. So, what do I do? I don't hunt TZ. You don't have to hunt Zim or even hunt the animals offered if you don't like the terms of the deal.

Buzz and his group are good guys. I booked a hunt with Dean Kendall, whom you have hunted with in TZ. So, I would think you would step back and reset on Buzz and CMS as people who are reputable and are "good guys" hunt with him and work for him.
Crooks don't attract honest people.

On faded out faces - that is the hunters choice. Further, if a choice is not made, I assume Buzz opts to fade them out so as not to violate someone's wishes. In my case, I could care less. However, I have hunted with an outfit that never posts photos out of retaliation in thier own home country. To each his own.

You have always seemed a common sense guy in your posts and hosting this website. I have been posting here 20 years and rarely have seen something that just does not add up. In this case, it does not add up.

On this issue, you may be over-reacting a bit. Again, your choice obviiously....

CMS had a legitimate business issue . They way they ORIGINALLY planned to address it was not well thought out . Ultimately, they realized that and changed . No one paid in advance.

The photo issue can be delicate . Some people have been attacked as they were identified from photos . Some lost their jobs over pictures . I get the blurring out of faces. Some don’t care. I happen to be one of those . Others do care . I totally get it.

On blurring out faces, I would just show a photo of the animal over a blurred out face which subtracts from the aesthetic.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
Saeed,
I sat with Buzz for an hour at DSC. I asked him what was up. There was a lot more to the story than was aired here. Primarily, the issue on mandatory fees stems from hunters choosing not to shoot or accept shots on animals they committed to hunt. You do not agree with that because of the way you choose to hunt with you to go TZ.

As know in TZ, you are required to book a preset number of days to get access to the species you want to hunt. This is a similar practice in that you are being forced to pay more up front to get access to what you want to hunt. This may not upset you as you have been hunting TZ since I have been posting here.

I have hunted TZ once only because of this practice. So, what do I do? I don't hunt TZ. You don't have to hunt Zim or even hunt the animals offered if you don't like the terms of the deal.

Buzz and his group are good guys. I booked a hunt with Dean Kendall, whom you have hunted with in TZ. So, I would think you would step back and reset on Buzz and CMS as people who are reputable and are "good guys" hunt with him and work for him.
Crooks don't attract honest people.

On faded out faces - that is the hunters choice. Further, if a choice is not made, I assume Buzz opts to fade them out so as not to violate someone's wishes. In my case, I could care less. However, I have hunted with an outfit that never posts photos out of retaliation in thier own home country. To each his own.

You have always seemed a common sense guy in your posts and hosting this website. I have been posting here 20 years and rarely have seen something that just does not add up. In this case, it does not add up.

On this issue, you may be over-reacting a bit. Again, your choice obviiously....

CMS had a legitimate business issue . They way they ORIGINALLY planned to address it was not well thought out . Ultimately, they realized that and changed . No one paid in advance.

The photo issue can be delicate . Some people have been attacked as they were identified from photos . Some lost their jobs over pictures . I get the blurring out of faces. Some don’t care. I happen to be one of those . Others do care . I totally get it.

You are right.

But blaming us here on AR for whatever bad decisions he made is NOT acceptable.

He decided to leave because we have complained TWICE about bad decisions HE had made.

Non of us here was responsible.

He said that enough was enough.

Members here complain about totally unacceptable rules he has brought in.

As I have mentioned, I do NOT like to see faces blocked.

In his posts or others.

It is just plain awful!

And draws unwanted attention straight to those faces.

It cries I AM ASHAMED OF BEING A HUNTER!

Booking certain number of days for specific animals is all over the place.

Not just Tanzania.

It is practiced in every country.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
On blurring out faces, I would just show a photo of the animal over a blurred out face which subtracts from the aesthetic.

OR with the ph or tracker in the unblurred photo.

Just checking in to see if Andrew’s client has received his refund?

quote:

in TZ, you are required to book a preset number of days to get access to the species you want to hunt.

That is true though one is not obliged to pay trophy fees in advance and the licensing system which grants the privilege of hunting established varieties of animals determined by the Hunting Permit is set by the Wildlife authorities and not the Outfitter.

I don’t like collective punishment.

One client booked certain animals and then didn’t want them?

Why punish everyone else?

How many clients hunt and go back home without paying all their trophy fees?

Quite a few do.

And the professional hunters they hunt with accept that, despite some experiencing other clients who don’t pay.

Same goes for hiding faces.

Some members here were in those pictures and non of them wanted their faces covered!

I think Buzz must have gotten off the wrong side of the bed.

And decided to blame us here for his own mistakes!

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:
Just checking in to see if Andrew’s client has received his refund?

Not yet reported to have been paid. Based on cryptic comments here from the perp, do not expect it.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:
Just checking in to see if Andrew’s client has received his refund?

Not yet reported to have been paid. Based on cryptic comments here from the perp, do not expect it.

Why not speak with Cme direct rather than post your negative assumptions here?

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:
Just checking in to see if Andrew’s client has received his refund?

Not yet reported to have been paid. Based on cryptic comments here from the perp, do not expect it.

Why not speak with Cme direct rather than post your negative assumptions here?

Well, that is darn interesting...

1. You are the epicenter of this mess and committed to sorting it out. Nothing sorted yet, at least for public consumption.

2. My negative assumptions are not assumptions, they are facts based on the fact that no money has been returned.

3. The "deflect and fall on the sword campaign" has not been very successful, hence all of this wonderful publicity you are getting.

4. You happily post on several other conversations, you write about your legal issues in Zambia and about the loss of your camps/equipment/etc. , yet this is not resolved.

5. I assume that are in daily contact with Ibi about this and how this has wrecked your reputation and business plans for the future. I get it that some believe he is 100% responsible and the Saeed and others see that as well. I do not share that view.

I see this like a blind date gone horribly wrong. My point - "a friend says - hey I know this stunning girl that wants to go out on a date with you. You say, sure. You meet the girl at the restaurant. All looks ok. You get up to go the bathroom. You come back and she is gone.... with you credit card you laid on the table to pay the check. You cannot find her or get her to call. You call the "arranger" of this date, your good buddy. He says - sorry, thought she was ok, no responsibilty of mine to get the $80,000 of fraud charges back from your credit card... you took her out, not me..."

6. I assume you are using your Zambia PH powers to rain hell on Ibi and get this money back to your client.

7. I assume that ultimately you will make this right.

8. I assume that CME will post when/if he gets his money and then the kisses and hugs can start up again.

9. I assume that you will stay transparent on this mess to the bitter end or successful end.
\

My only truly negative assumption is that this may not end well....

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:
Just checking in to see if Andrew’s client has received his refund?

Not yet reported to have been paid. Based on cryptic comments here from the perp, do not expect it.

Why not speak with Cme direct rather than post your negative assumptions here?

Well, that is darn interesting...

1. You are the epicenter of this mess and committed to sorting it out. Nothing sorted yet, at least for public consumption.

2. My negative assumptions are not assumptions, they are facts based on the fact that no money has been returned.

3. The "deflect and fall on the sword campaign" has not been very successful, hence all of this wonderful publicity you are getting.

4. You happily post on several other conversations, you write about your legal issues in Zambia and about the loss of your camps/equipment/etc. , yet this is not resolved.

5. I assume that are in daily contact with Ibi about this and how this has wrecked your reputation and business plans for the future. I get it that some believe he is 100% responsible and the Saeed and others see that as well. I do not share that view.

I see this like a blind date gone horribly wrong. My point - "a friend says - hey I know this stunning girl that wants to go out on a date with you. You say, sure. You meet the girl at the restaurant. All looks ok. You get up to go the bathroom. You come back and she is gone.... with you credit card you laid on the table to pay the check. You cannot find her or get her to call. You call the "arranger" of this date, your good buddy. He says - sorry, thought she was ok, no responsibilty of mine to get the $80,000 of fraud charges back from your credit card... you took her out, not me..."

6. I assume you are using your Zambia PH powers to rain hell on Ibi and get this money back to your client.

7. I assume that ultimately you will make this right.

8. I assume that CME will post when/if he gets his money and then the kisses and hugs can start up again.

9. I assume that you will stay transparent on this mess to the bitter end or successful end.
\

My only truly negative assumption is that this may not end well....

Andrew is a victim of this sad episode!

Why don’t you put the same effort you are expending on Andrew on the Zambian government and Ibi??

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:
Just checking in to see if Andrew’s client has received his refund?

Not yet reported to have been paid. Based on cryptic comments here from the perp, do not expect it.

Why not speak with Cme direct rather than post your negative assumptions here?

Well, that is darn interesting...

1. You are the epicenter of this mess and committed to sorting it out. Nothing sorted yet, at least for public consumption.

2. My negative assumptions are not assumptions, they are facts based on the fact that no money has been returned.

3. The "deflect and fall on the sword campaign" has not been very successful, hence all of this wonderful publicity you are getting.

4. You happily post on several other conversations, you write about your legal issues in Zambia and about the loss of your camps/equipment/etc. , yet this is not resolved.

5. I assume that are in daily contact with Ibi about this and how this has wrecked your reputation and business plans for the future. I get it that some believe he is 100% responsible and the Saeed and others see that as well. I do not share that view.

I see this like a blind date gone horribly wrong. My point - "a friend says - hey I know this stunning girl that wants to go out on a date with you. You say, sure. You meet the girl at the restaurant. All looks ok. You get up to go the bathroom. You come back and she is gone.... with you credit card you laid on the table to pay the check. You cannot find her or get her to call. You call the "arranger" of this date, your good buddy. He says - sorry, thought she was ok, no responsibilty of mine to get the $80,000 of fraud charges back from your credit card... you took her out, not me..."

6. I assume you are using your Zambia PH powers to rain hell on Ibi and get this money back to your client.

7. I assume that ultimately you will make this right.

8. I assume that CME will post when/if he gets his money and then the kisses and hugs can start up again.

9. I assume that you will stay transparent on this mess to the bitter end or successful end.
\

My only truly negative assumption is that this may not end well....

Andrew is a victim of this sad episode!

Why don’t you put the same effort you are expending on Andrew on the Zambian government and Ibi??

Put Ibi's name, address and phone out here as well as the appropriate Zambia governement officials and I ASSUME they will get the calls and emails.
However, so far, I have not seen them named other than arm waving.

Saeed - I do not see how you are so rough on CMS and are giving Andrew a pass....

CMS actions were business related. Not one customer lost a dollar or spent a dollar they did not plan or want to spend. In this case, one of your "members" is out $80,000 due to a seeming naive PH/Outfitter/Pretend agent, a crooked concession owner and a typical African government. And the outcry is against this mythical "Ibi" and a government. Good luck on getting action out of any governement. Better luck getting action out of a crooked concession owne and even better luck getting action out of a PH/Outfitter that thought he was cutting a fat hog in booking the hunt then getting to PH the hunt.

I see inconsistency here.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:
Just checking in to see if Andrew’s client has received his refund?

Not yet reported to have been paid. Based on cryptic comments here from the perp, do not expect it.

Why not speak with Cme direct rather than post your negative assumptions here?

Well, that is darn interesting...

1. You are the epicenter of this mess and committed to sorting it out. Nothing sorted yet, at least for public consumption.

2. My negative assumptions are not assumptions, they are facts based on the fact that no money has been returned.

3. The "deflect and fall on the sword campaign" has not been very successful, hence all of this wonderful publicity you are getting.

4. You happily post on several other conversations, you write about your legal issues in Zambia and about the loss of your camps/equipment/etc. , yet this is not resolved.

5. I assume that are in daily contact with Ibi about this and how this has wrecked your reputation and business plans for the future. I get it that some believe he is 100% responsible and the Saeed and others see that as well. I do not share that view.

I see this like a blind date gone horribly wrong. My point - "a friend says - hey I know this stunning girl that wants to go out on a date with you. You say, sure. You meet the girl at the restaurant. All looks ok. You get up to go the bathroom. You come back and she is gone.... with you credit card you laid on the table to pay the check. You cannot find her or get her to call. You call the "arranger" of this date, your good buddy. He says - sorry, thought she was ok, no responsibilty of mine to get the $80,000 of fraud charges back from your credit card... you took her out, not me..."

6. I assume you are using your Zambia PH powers to rain hell on Ibi and get this money back to your client.

7. I assume that ultimately you will make this right.

8. I assume that CME will post when/if he gets his money and then the kisses and hugs can start up again.

9. I assume that you will stay transparent on this mess to the bitter end or successful end.
\

My only truly negative assumption is that this may not end well....

Andrew is a victim of this sad episode!

Why don’t you put the same effort you are expending on Andrew on the Zambian government and Ibi??

You are the only person saying that Andrew is a victim. Apparently, we have different definitions of what a victim is.

quote:

Originally posted by Cme:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:
Just checking in to see if Andrew’s client has received his refund?

Not yet reported to have been paid. Based on cryptic comments here from the perp, do not expect it.

Why not speak with Cme direct rather than post your negative assumptions here?

Well, that is darn interesting...

1. You are the epicenter of this mess and committed to sorting it out. Nothing sorted yet, at least for public consumption.

2. My negative assumptions are not assumptions, they are facts based on the fact that no money has been returned.

3. The "deflect and fall on the sword campaign" has not been very successful, hence all of this wonderful publicity you are getting.

4. You happily post on several other conversations, you write about your legal issues in Zambia and about the loss of your camps/equipment/etc. , yet this is not resolved.

5. I assume that are in daily contact with Ibi about this and how this has wrecked your reputation and business plans for the future. I get it that some believe he is 100% responsible and the Saeed and others see that as well. I do not share that view.

I see this like a blind date gone horribly wrong. My point - "a friend says - hey I know this stunning girl that wants to go out on a date with you. You say, sure. You meet the girl at the restaurant. All looks ok. You get up to go the bathroom. You come back and she is gone.... with you credit card you laid on the table to pay the check. You cannot find her or get her to call. You call the "arranger" of this date, your good buddy. He says - sorry, thought she was ok, no responsibilty of mine to get the $80,000 of fraud charges back from your credit card... you took her out, not me..."

6. I assume you are using your Zambia PH powers to rain hell on Ibi and get this money back to your client.

7. I assume that ultimately you will make this right.

8. I assume that CME will post when/if he gets his money and then the kisses and hugs can start up again.

9. I assume that you will stay transparent on this mess to the bitter end or successful end.
\

My only truly negative assumption is that this may not end well....

Andrew is a victim of this sad episode!

Why don’t you put the same effort you are expending on Andrew on the Zambian government and Ibi??

You are the only person saying that Andrew is a victim. Apparently, we have different definitions of what a victim is.

What CME said... He is the injured party and Andrew/Ibi are the offenders.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by Cme:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:
Just checking in to see if Andrew’s client has received his refund?

Not yet reported to have been paid. Based on cryptic comments here from the perp, do not expect it.

Why not speak with Cme direct rather than post your negative assumptions here?

Well, that is darn interesting...

1. You are the epicenter of this mess and committed to sorting it out. Nothing sorted yet, at least for public consumption.

2. My negative assumptions are not assumptions, they are facts based on the fact that no money has been returned.

3. The "deflect and fall on the sword campaign" has not been very successful, hence all of this wonderful publicity you are getting.

4. You happily post on several other conversations, you write about your legal issues in Zambia and about the loss of your camps/equipment/etc. , yet this is not resolved.

5. I assume that are in daily contact with Ibi about this and how this has wrecked your reputation and business plans for the future. I get it that some believe he is 100% responsible and the Saeed and others see that as well. I do not share that view.

I see this like a blind date gone horribly wrong. My point - "a friend says - hey I know this stunning girl that wants to go out on a date with you. You say, sure. You meet the girl at the restaurant. All looks ok. You get up to go the bathroom. You come back and she is gone.... with you credit card you laid on the table to pay the check. You cannot find her or get her to call. You call the "arranger" of this date, your good buddy. He says - sorry, thought she was ok, no responsibilty of mine to get the $80,000 of fraud charges back from your credit card... you took her out, not me..."

6. I assume you are using your Zambia PH powers to rain hell on Ibi and get this money back to your client.

7. I assume that ultimately you will make this right.

8. I assume that CME will post when/if he gets his money and then the kisses and hugs can start up again.

9. I assume that you will stay transparent on this mess to the bitter end or successful end.
\

My only truly negative assumption is that this may not end well....

Andrew is a victim of this sad episode!

Why don’t you put the same effort you are expending on Andrew on the Zambian government and Ibi??

You are the only person saying that Andrew is a victim. Apparently, we have different definitions of what a victim is.

What CME said... He is the injured party and Andrew/Ibi are the offenders.

The Zambian government is the ultimate culprit here.

Followed very closely by Ibi.

Andrew didn’t receive any money.

Ibi did.

But, you, as everyone here, is entitled to your opinion.

I have no problems hunting with Andrew.

But I will make sure it is NOT on anywhere Ibi runs.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:
Just checking in to see if Andrew’s client has received his refund?

Not yet reported to have been paid. Based on cryptic comments here from the perp, do not expect it.

Why not speak with Cme direct rather than post your negative assumptions here?

Well, that is darn interesting...

1. You are the epicenter of this mess and committed to sorting it out. Nothing sorted yet, at least for public consumption.

2. My negative assumptions are not assumptions, they are facts based on the fact that no money has been returned.

3. The "deflect and fall on the sword campaign" has not been very successful, hence all of this wonderful publicity you are getting.

4. You happily post on several other conversations, you write about your legal issues in Zambia and about the loss of your camps/equipment/etc. , yet this is not resolved.

5. I assume that are in daily contact with Ibi about this and how this has wrecked your reputation and business plans for the future. I get it that some believe he is 100% responsible and the Saeed and others see that as well. I do not share that view.

I see this like a blind date gone horribly wrong. My point - "a friend says - hey I know this stunning girl that wants to go out on a date with you. You say, sure. You meet the girl at the restaurant. All looks ok. You get up to go the bathroom. You come back and she is gone.... with you credit card you laid on the table to pay the check. You cannot find her or get her to call. You call the "arranger" of this date, your good buddy. He says - sorry, thought she was ok, no responsibilty of mine to get the $80,000 of fraud charges back from your credit card... you took her out, not me..."

6. I assume you are using your Zambia PH powers to rain hell on Ibi and get this money back to your client.

7. I assume that ultimately you will make this right.

8. I assume that CME will post when/if he gets his money and then the kisses and hugs can start up again.

9. I assume that you will stay transparent on this mess to the bitter end or successful end.
\

My only truly negative assumption is that this may not end well....

Let's leave the fact that I think your analogy under your point 5 is a terrible one, but let's play along.... If that happened to you, would you really expect "your friend the arranger" to pay you back $80k?

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:
Just checking in to see if Andrew’s client has received his refund?

Not yet reported to have been paid. Based on cryptic comments here from the perp, do not expect it.

Why not speak with Cme direct rather than post your negative assumptions here?

Well, that is darn interesting...

1. You are the epicenter of this mess and committed to sorting it out. Nothing sorted yet, at least for public consumption.

2. My negative assumptions are not assumptions, they are facts based on the fact that no money has been returned.

3. The "deflect and fall on the sword campaign" has not been very successful, hence all of this wonderful publicity you are getting.

4. You happily post on several other conversations, you write about your legal issues in Zambia and about the loss of your camps/equipment/etc. , yet this is not resolved.

5. I assume that are in daily contact with Ibi about this and how this has wrecked your reputation and business plans for the future. I get it that some believe he is 100% responsible and the Saeed and others see that as well. I do not share that view.

I see this like a blind date gone horribly wrong. My point - "a friend says - hey I know this stunning girl that wants to go out on a date with you. You say, sure. You meet the girl at the restaurant. All looks ok. You get up to go the bathroom. You come back and she is gone.... with you credit card you laid on the table to pay the check. You cannot find her or get her to call. You call the "arranger" of this date, your good buddy. He says - sorry, thought she was ok, no responsibilty of mine to get the $80,000 of fraud charges back from your credit card... you took her out, not me..."

6. I assume you are using your Zambia PH powers to rain hell on Ibi and get this money back to your client.

7. I assume that ultimately you will make this right.

8. I assume that CME will post when/if he gets his money and then the kisses and hugs can start up again.

9. I assume that you will stay transparent on this mess to the bitter end or successful end.
\

My only truly negative assumption is that this may not end well....

So you did not speak with Cme?

No need. CME posted here just a few posts up. Obviously he has not been paid....

quote:

Originally posted by Cme:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:
Just checking in to see if Andrew’s client has received his refund?

Not yet reported to have been paid. Based on cryptic comments here from the perp, do not expect it.

Why not speak with Cme direct rather than post your negative assumptions here?

Well, that is darn interesting...

1. You are the epicenter of this mess and committed to sorting it out. Nothing sorted yet, at least for public consumption.

2. My negative assumptions are not assumptions, they are facts based on the fact that no money has been returned.

3. The "deflect and fall on the sword campaign" has not been very successful, hence all of this wonderful publicity you are getting.

4. You happily post on several other conversations, you write about your legal issues in Zambia and about the loss of your camps/equipment/etc. , yet this is not resolved.

5. I assume that are in daily contact with Ibi about this and how this has wrecked your reputation and business plans for the future. I get it that some believe he is 100% responsible and the Saeed and others see that as well. I do not share that view.

I see this like a blind date gone horribly wrong. My point - "a friend says - hey I know this stunning girl that wants to go out on a date with you. You say, sure. You meet the girl at the restaurant. All looks ok. You get up to go the bathroom. You come back and she is gone.... with you credit card you laid on the table to pay the check. You cannot find her or get her to call. You call the "arranger" of this date, your good buddy. He says - sorry, thought she was ok, no responsibilty of mine to get the $80,000 of fraud charges back from your credit card... you took her out, not me..."

6. I assume you are using your Zambia PH powers to rain hell on Ibi and get this money back to your client.

7. I assume that ultimately you will make this right.

8. I assume that CME will post when/if he gets his money and then the kisses and hugs can start up again.

9. I assume that you will stay transparent on this mess to the bitter end or successful end.
\

My only truly negative assumption is that this may not end well....

Andrew is a victim of this sad episode!

Why don’t you put the same effort you are expending on Andrew on the Zambian government and Ibi??

You are the only person saying that Andrew is a victim. Apparently, we have different definitions of what a victim is.

100%. Andrew is a victim. Buzz is a crook. Saeed has slipped through the hour glass with Alice I’m afraid.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Cme:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:
Just checking in to see if Andrew’s client has received his refund?

Not yet reported to have been paid. Based on cryptic comments here from the perp, do not expect it.

Why not speak with Cme direct rather than post your negative assumptions here?

Well, that is darn interesting...

1. You are the epicenter of this mess and committed to sorting it out. Nothing sorted yet, at least for public consumption.

2. My negative assumptions are not assumptions, they are facts based on the fact that no money has been returned.

3. The "deflect and fall on the sword campaign" has not been very successful, hence all of this wonderful publicity you are getting.

4. You happily post on several other conversations, you write about your legal issues in Zambia and about the loss of your camps/equipment/etc. , yet this is not resolved.

5. I assume that are in daily contact with Ibi about this and how this has wrecked your reputation and business plans for the future. I get it that some believe he is 100% responsible and the Saeed and others see that as well. I do not share that view.

I see this like a blind date gone horribly wrong. My point - "a friend says - hey I know this stunning girl that wants to go out on a date with you. You say, sure. You meet the girl at the restaurant. All looks ok. You get up to go the bathroom. You come back and she is gone.... with you credit card you laid on the table to pay the check. You cannot find her or get her to call. You call the "arranger" of this date, your good buddy. He says - sorry, thought she was ok, no responsibilty of mine to get the $80,000 of fraud charges back from your credit card... you took her out, not me..."

6. I assume you are using your Zambia PH powers to rain hell on Ibi and get this money back to your client.

7. I assume that ultimately you will make this right.

8. I assume that CME will post when/if he gets his money and then the kisses and hugs can start up again.

9. I assume that you will stay transparent on this mess to the bitter end or successful end.
\

My only truly negative assumption is that this may not end well....

Andrew is a victim of this sad episode!

Why don’t you put the same effort you are expending on Andrew on the Zambian government and Ibi??

You are the only person saying that Andrew is a victim. Apparently, we have different definitions of what a victim is.

100%. Andrew is a victim. Buzz is a crook. Saeed has slipped through the hour glass with Alice I’m afraid.

have you ever thought this has fuck all to do with you?

. . . doesn’t seem to stop you from posting on other outfitter’s threads and threads about other outfitters.

You are right. This has nothing to do with me...

Nor does the war in Israel, Trump vs Biden or the price of oil....

Yet I care, a little bit....

You post here, so you get to be accountable for your deals, decisions and screw ups that you make public....

Can't have it both ways....

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Cme:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:
Just checking in to see if Andrew’s client has received his refund?

Not yet reported to have been paid. Based on cryptic comments here from the perp, do not expect it.

Why not speak with Cme direct rather than post your negative assumptions here?

Well, that is darn interesting...

1. You are the epicenter of this mess and committed to sorting it out. Nothing sorted yet, at least for public consumption.

2. My negative assumptions are not assumptions, they are facts based on the fact that no money has been returned.

3. The "deflect and fall on the sword campaign" has not been very successful, hence all of this wonderful publicity you are getting.

4. You happily post on several other conversations, you write about your legal issues in Zambia and about the loss of your camps/equipment/etc. , yet this is not resolved.

5. I assume that are in daily contact with Ibi about this and how this has wrecked your reputation and business plans for the future. I get it that some believe he is 100% responsible and the Saeed and others see that as well. I do not share that view.

I see this like a blind date gone horribly wrong. My point - "a friend says - hey I know this stunning girl that wants to go out on a date with you. You say, sure. You meet the girl at the restaurant. All looks ok. You get up to go the bathroom. You come back and she is gone.... with you credit card you laid on the table to pay the check. You cannot find her or get her to call. You call the "arranger" of this date, your good buddy. He says - sorry, thought she was ok, no responsibilty of mine to get the $80,000 of fraud charges back from your credit card... you took her out, not me..."

6. I assume you are using your Zambia PH powers to rain hell on Ibi and get this money back to your client.

7. I assume that ultimately you will make this right.

8. I assume that CME will post when/if he gets his money and then the kisses and hugs can start up again.

9. I assume that you will stay transparent on this mess to the bitter end or successful end.
\

My only truly negative assumption is that this may not end well....

Andrew is a victim of this sad episode!

Why don’t you put the same effort you are expending on Andrew on the Zambian government and Ibi??

You are the only person saying that Andrew is a victim. Apparently, we have different definitions of what a victim is.

100%. Andrew is a victim. Buzz is a crook. Saeed has slipped through the hour glass with Alice I’m afraid.

have you ever thought this has fuck all to do with you?

Surely you must realize that it was your comment about another outfitter that started this entire episode.

Let us see now.

Andrew is in this shit because of the government screw ups, and a land owner who took the money and never looked back.

Buzz, on the other, got himself in very deep shit because of his very own attitude towards others.

He not only considered everyone else a crook, he decided to make sure no one sees the faces of those who pay him!

Comparing Andrew and Buzz is the classic comparison between chalk and cheese!

Take your pick!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Let us see now.

Andrew is in this shit because of the government screw ups, and a land owner who took the money and never looked back.

Buzz, on the other, got himself in very deep shit because of his very own attitude towards others.

He not only considered everyone else a crook, he decided to make sure no one sees the faces of those who pay him!

Comparing Andrew and Buzz is the classic comparison between chalk and cheese!

Take your pick!

Dear Saeed, stop beating a dead horse. That CMS thing with prepaid trophies was dead before birth. It is rude to bring this matter up again and again. And for what it is worth it was just a business proposal. Not a single dollar changed hand and no one got hurt. The blurring of faces I hear you. Agreed. We hunters do nothing wrong. Being ashamed of what we do is stupid. But I can understand CMS regarding that. And who are we to override their decision ?

Regarding Mr. Andrew the facts are well discussed. No he did not take the 80.000 grand. But he guided this poor fellow towards that asshole who did steal his money. In my book Andrew must do what he can to help out.

-Make AR great again-

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Let us see now.

Andrew is in this shit because of the government screw ups, and a land owner who took the money and never looked back.

Buzz, on the other, got himself in very deep shit because of his very own attitude towards others.

He not only considered everyone else a crook, he decided to make sure no one sees the faces of those who pay him!

Comparing Andrew and Buzz is the classic comparison between chalk and cheese!

Take your pick!

Let me be sure I see your logic...

1. Baldry makes a business decision that costs his client $80,000, yet is not accountable. The "blame" is the crooked concession owner (not land owner) and the government. Baldry sells the hunt, tells client to pay concession owner, government makes a decision, client does not get money back....

2. Legit business OWNER and concession OWNER makes business decision based on people not following through on a committment to attempt to hunt certain animals. Legit business owner states policy. He gets push back from some prospective clients and mostly internet critics. He changes policy. Further, he posts advertising about hunts with faces blurred. Legit business owner does so at request of client or in case client does not respond to request about pictures, chooses to blur photos to avoid hassle/lawsuit/bad relations with said clients by going against their wishes. Again, a business decision that costs NOBODY and money. Further, a practice of many of his competitors.

So, if my logic is actually logic and not a tantrum, Legit Business Owner makes decisions that did not and will not cost anyone one dollar and he is criticized by certain folks that disagree with those practices and call him a crook???? He makes a decision that is acceptable in many countries. Further, it is Legit Business Owners actual business. He will enjoy or suffer the consequences of his business decision that is 100% legal, ethical and common practice in many places. No money lost. No customers unhappy over pictures. I struggle to make the connection to the conclusion - CROOK.

Yet, when Baldry, PH acting as agent and not a concession owner, leads the customer to make an $80,000 payment to a third party that may or may not have owned the concession at the time of payment - gets off with "oh, it's the governments fault, oh , it's the concession owners fault".... There is a lot of money lost. There is now a reputation ruined. There are many many potential clients that will never hunt in Zambia of with Baldry. The logic here is that Baldry is the victim???? Really??? Did you got Hogwarts or somewhere that logic is taught differently???

Saeed, I like you having not met you. I like this website. I have been posting 20 years. But between this event and the routine garbage posted on the Political forum, I have not seen any evidence that logic or truth has prevailed.

I booked a hunt at DSC with CMS, largely due to my discussion with Buzz at DSC about his legitimate business decisions to run his business as a business and get paid for what people commit to. He makes decisions based on what his clients need and want. On the issue of pre-paid trophy fees, part of the issue is that if hunter A says "yah, I will shoot a bushbuck and eland", those animals are committed to hunter A. When hunter B wants to hunt eland and bushbuck, the quota is gone due to committment by hunter A. When hunter A shows up and then says "I pass on bushbuck and eland", the quota is now "available" but likely too late to resell to hunter B or someone. CMS still pays the quota. If hunter A makes the effort on bushbuck and eland, and does not take one or both - that is hunting and CMS accepts and understands that. Part of the business.

I get it that you don't like that policy. Well, that policy for CMS is gone yet the drum is still being beaten and they are labeled crooks by you and others. I call BS on that as that continuing bashing serves only the basher. You will never hunt with CMS. You will never likely hunt anywhere but TZ again. So, why carry the club and bash this when there is nothing to bash???

As to Baldry, I don't know him. I have skin in this. I only care because of the mess it has caused other operators in Zambia. Did Baldry create this mess??? No. He is culpable, yes in that we was dealing with a financially unstable operator and selling an expensive hunt that had no safeguards in place in case this situation arose. Baldry chose to be the agent. He chose to be the middle man. And has continued to fan the flames with his odd comments and attempts to deflect. I hope he is good to his word that he is "in daily contact with Ibi to get this resolved". I hope for CME's sake and Baldry's.

Anyway, this is a mess that is still a mess many months later = the logic on that is clear.