I don't think Mercedes is going to settle for less than her already owned 50 B&M Super Short, 1st gun built, Gun #1. She already has that in her side of the gun rack, I don't think she will go for less! She is not one to let her brothers get a step up on her.


M

Just back from Zim Buff & Ele hunt. Everyone loved the .458B&M rifle and were impressed by the CEB performance from both the B&M and the .416Rem. One must be careful of what is behind the intended target, as pass throughs are common. One shot, one kill on frontal shots to both Ele and Buff.

More info to follow in the next days.

Mike

Welcome back looking forward to the reports--sounds like a great time was had

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
Just back from Zim Buff & Ele hunt. Everyone loved the .458B&M rifle and were impressed by the CEB performance from both the B&M and the .416Rem. One must be careful of what is behind the intended target, as pass throughs are common. One shot, one kill on frontal shots to both Ele and Buff.

More info to follow in the next days.

Mike

Welcome back and like Cross we are awaiting reports on the rifles, bullets, and all the details! Happy you made it home safe.

On our trip we used extensively Your and Henry's cartridge slides---Perfect!!!!! They got a lot of use and abuse as well! Best cartridge slides I have ever used.

Michael

I am just copying Mikes post from hunting reports here.


LionHunter
one of us
Picture of LionHunter

Posted Aug 19, 2012 1:42 PM Hide Post
Back from Zim less than 48 hours and still in recovery mode. But here's some brief info:

PH Al Shearing went ga-ga when I pulled my .458B&M rifle from its' bag to zero. He and the Appie used words like "beautiful" and "so compact". It got better when I put two shots into MOA on target. SIL was shooting a Win Mdl 70 in .416Rem - same as Al carries - and did similar on target. I explained the CEB bullets, as Al had not seen them but had heard some about them. To say enthusiasm was high would be an understatement. The beautiful word was used again on day one - mine is a SS 20" bbl with OEM brown laminate stock modified for proper LOP by Brian at SSK when he built it for me. There is a pic of Michael458's similar on his B&M website.

Day 1 - tracked Buff herd in the morning, let them settle and came back to them in the afternoon, SIL takes a frontal chest facing heart shot with a BBW#13 NonCon at 30 yards while buff is feeding, blows huge hole through buff heart (petals at work here) and lodges in the intestine, buff runs 20 yards and folds up, insurance shot paid, recovered original bullet during butchering, no deformation and all petals expended (none recovered).

Day 4 - Locate Ele herd digging for water in riverbed at late afternoon, Identify two tusked cows eligible for ration quota, wait for them to come out of the riverbed into the bush and move into 15 yards range, large tusked cow candidate turns her head towards us and I take a frontal brain shot as she raises her head, she crumples ass end first as I re-load while watching her reaction, PH says you brained her but I see her raise her head after she goes down, can't get insurance due to brush, herd reacts and we begin to back away as I re-charge my magazine, now dark when herd leaves and I put in two insurance shots, take the tail and some quick pics and leave to return in a.m. with road and skinning crew. Before butchering I let Al put 2 NonCons into the top of her head and the Appie put 1 solid into her neck spine, recover one NonCon with perfect formation (other is pass through), examination shows my kill shot passed below the brain striking the spinal cord which resulted in the CNS reaction paralyzing her from the neck down and accounts for her raising her head after the shot, original bullet not recovered but believed to be lodged in the spinal column. As this was a ration quota, every part immediately goes to the government camp so no further examination can be done; hopefully the Appie can reclaim the skull for dissection and possible bullet recovery at a later time.

To say everyone was impressed with the B&M rifle, cartridge and BBW#13 bullet would be an extreme understatement. After shooting it, Al commented on how surprised he was at the light recoil level of the short rifle. This was my second Ele taken with the BBW#13 solid - first was last season from my .458Lott while awaiting delivery of my B&M.

SIL tried for a Hippo and Zebra in Chewore South but no shooters were found, so we moved to Chewore North and spent the final 2.5 days hunting a bull Hippo on the Zambezi, again with no luck. The bull Hippo on the river just get hammered all season long.

Both kill shots are recorded by video cameraman. 15 BBW#13 solids and 11 NonCons in .416Rem were given to PH Al Shearing when we departed. He promised to report on their performance as used.

Looks like I should have posted this as a new hunt report, so I will make a reference post to it.


Mike
______________
SCI Life
NRA Life
Sables Life
Mzuri
IPHA

I should add that this was Beau's first safari and taking the Buff was his idea from the start. After coaching him at the range and watching his skill as a rifleman develop, I surprised him by posting the Buff targets. He shot both the profile and facing targets at 50 yards and we examined the shot placement on the reverse - anatomical - sides. I honestly believe this was of great help in his learning where to aim and place his shots. Taking his Buff face on with a perfect chest shot through the heart certainly demonstrates the value of these targets to first time DG hunters, IMO. Also, his buff was taken at 60 yards rather than 30.

DG anatomical targets are available from Safari Press. PG anatomical targets are also available. www.safaripress.com

Beau has caught the african safari bug, big time. He's decided he only wants to hunt DG and says he has no interest in PG, prefers remote tented bush camps over chalets with lots of other people in camp. He found Mana Angwa Camp to be beautiful. I may have created another monster for our small fraternity of DG hunters.

Guys, I knew much about this being Beau's first safari, and man, jump right on old buff and go to it is great. Most start out with plains game and that is what I would always recommend for beginners to get their feet wet. Big difference for Beau, he had "Pops" along to teach him the ropes, a very distinct advantage for him! And, it most certainly appears that with proper instructions, Beau did real good!

Now Beau was using a fine rifle, Winchester M70 416 Remington, special from the Custom Shop, I have it's mate here exactly like it in fact. He had proper guidance and training, and made the shot! Well, of course, having really "Superbly" "Expertly" loaded ammo was a big help too, especially when that ammo was loaded with a 370 gr BBW#13 NoNCon at 2450 fps +. Hammer down! Would love to see those heart photos?

Just one thing I see missing, gonna have to get Beau a proper short B&M rifle for the next safari with "Pops"!!!!!!!! Then we are going to teach him how to load his own so he can get lot's of practice in!!!!!!!!!

Very very excellent--How old is Beau? Always good to see one of the family doing it! I was so proud of my two boys on this buffalo shoot of ours, I know exactly how Lionhunter feels! And I too have created a couple of "Monsters", but they already had a head start on the "Monster" part of it!

Michael

Yes, and many thanks to Michael for those great loads. Couldn't have worked better!

Beau drilled nightly, loading dummies from his cartridge belt into the rifle magazine. Start with a fully loaded (DUMMIES) rifle. Fire three, load two, fire one, repeat. Also practiced from sticks. He did this nightly for weeks leading up to departure. He also fired hundreds of full house loads at the range for months before leaving for Zim, even shooting the day before we boarded the plane. He is a 35 year old commercial banker and was a -2 handicap golfer at university, so has athletic skill sets.

I taught him to shoot some years ago and he hunted Nilgai in Texas and Mule Deer and Roosevelt Elk on Santa Rosa Island with me a few years before the safari.

I also taught my daughter, now Beau's wife, to shoot before her 21st birthday safari. She killed her first animal - 1 shot, 1 kill - on her birthday in RSA. My goal is to live long enough to teach my now 3 year old grandson to shoot and then take him on safari in about 8-10 years.

The buff heart shot pics are on the way to you and yes, you may post them.

BTW, I loved the pics of you and your boys in OZ.

quote:

BTW, I loved the pics of you and your boys in OZ.

Mike

I was very proud of both those boys! As we spoke about before leaving, they only had one real session with me with those Super Shorts. Of course they have a good bit of shooting experience, so it is not new to them. After watching them work with the rifles that day, I knew there was really nothing else that could be done on the range. Their gun handling and shooting absolutely superb. The real test had to come from the field now. And I was amazed at both of them! No buffalo anywhere was safe when you turn those two loose on them. I think I used to be that good? I suppose at some point one has to turn things over to that next generation---But I ain't there yet! LOL..............

Got the ele photos, and going to do a thing on the B&M site with them! Especially the one with you standing there with the rifle and elephant--excellent!

Michael

Last night I received a partial hunting report from Carl, Lionhunters hunting partner. Both Carl and Mike hunted with 20 Inch 458 B&M rifles. Concerning bullet performance I will post that later up on terminals, but here is what Carl had to say about the rifle, which he used for elephant, and was successful of course.

quote:

My rifle made a big hit. The PH wanted it badly because of the size of it. He loved the shortness of the rifle. I'll never have a long barrel rifle again. Your B&M series rifles would do well over there if someone could commercially load the rounds for sale in gunshops.

quote:

I'm thinking of making my 300 RUM into one of your 500's.as it is on a Winchester action

These are the sorts of things we really like to hear.


I worked a bit on the B&M website, and added a photo of our man Lionhunter! I love this photo!!!!
I hope Mike does not mind me posting it!




Also on the B&M website I added a new page, under the Links page you see "Articles" all the B&M articles are listed there, and below those are the new ones concerning CEB. In the future, should I run across something worthwhile, I will also put those on there too. All are .pdf format and you can download direct to your computer.

direct link

http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/Articles.html

Michael

As to the photo, that is the B&M patch above the left pocket. Where's my safari hat? Everyone knows you can't hunt Ele without a proper hat, what?

Please note that I am 30 pounds heavier than I was for last years safari. I have been unable to exercise for the past 11 months due to injuries and wore a cast on my left leg until one week before departure on this years safari. There was never a doubt that I was going, however. I still cannot climb and had to tell Al Shearing he must find me a "flat land" ration Ele to take, which he did. Good man, that Allan Shearing!

That B&M 15 round culling belt I designed and had Henry Flores make from a previous Ele hide looks great, got lots of compliments from the african staff (who also loved the B&M short rifle) and it worked like a dream. All feedback on the B&M cartridge slides we have sold has been from very pleased buyers, some of whom are asking for more! I have only a few remaining; if anyone is interested, send me a PM for details.

Great pic
That culling belt is bad ass.
Maybe make a rifle sock out of the trunk?

Mike

Hats? Yep, new B&M hats will be in the works, new buffalo logo on them. But, they will be my hats, the black ones that I wear all the time. Maybe I check into another color, but same style, both black, and maybe something else, will see next week. Taking 20+ samples of shirts to have embroidered next week, so will be discussing much of these sorts of things. Also meeting about pamphlets and getting those ready.

Got to call Henry about the B&M slings and cartridge slides as well, see where he is with that. Our cartridge slides worked great in Australia. So good I left my set with Paul, he loved them.

Worked on a new image for Lionhunter and his elephant---






Michael

Hey Michael,

In addition to your black cap, we need a green wide brim/jungle hat to protect those of us who don't want sunburned ears, neck and face! PLEASE!

Interesting sepia effect on the pic. Makes me look like an old-timer, but then I guess I am, relatively speaking!

quote:

In addition to your black cap, we need a green wide brim/jungle hat to protect those of us who don't want sunburned ears, neck and face! PLEASE!

+3

Sean,

Have a great safari! We need pics of the damage!

Sean

Best of luck, safe return, lot's of photos and stories expected!

M

Michael 458.maybe I have not seen it here.but I am surprised that there is not more interest in the 375B%M.There is a wide selection of bullets and I think I saw it can get 2700fps with a 270 grain bullet.which has a high BC making it I think the flatest shooting of the B&M ?? I think that is with a 20 inch barrel.what would the weight of that rifle Be

quote:

Originally posted by kev5000:
Michael 458.maybe I have not seen it here.but I am surprised that there is not more interest in the 375B%M.There is a wide selection of bullets and I think I saw it can get 2700fps with a 270 grain bullet.which has a high BC making it I think the flatest shooting of the B&M ?? I think that is with a 20 inch barrel.what would the weight of that rifle Be

Michael =

Me =

.375? Michael's opinion? Really?
Nah, don't even bother to reply.

Okay I am not sure what is wrong with what I said.I do not know nothing at all about the B&M and I am just trying to learn alittle about it, I am not trying to be a jackass and I am sorry if anyone took it that way.I am just saying I would love to see more reloading and date on the 375B&M, I like what I saw on it and wanted to learn more about it.sorry if I said anything in the wrong way,I am not good with words,but a 375 270 grain bullet has a high bc along with the NPA 260 grain I thought it would be great to have a light weight rifle with hittting power and a flat shooter,Kev

Kev,

It's not you and we we weren't attacking you.

Michael doesn't own anything in .375 caliber and truly doesn't care for the caliber - other than to use the 375 RUM cases for his 500 MDM - so we tease him every chance we get about it. Nothing more, nothing less...

Michael does own a 9.3 B&M and will be building a 366 B&M (1/4" longer case) in the near future so anything he says about the 9.3 would mirror recommendations for the a 375 B&M.

I believe Sam Rose owns a 375 B&M, but not sure if anyone else does, so he may pop in with some comments/recommendations.

Anyway that about it. A 375 B&M would be a very nice compact cartridge/rifle combination on a M70 WSM action.

quote:

capoward

Thanks for the kind reply I thought I was out of line and had no clue why .I have a browning lever 1895 in 9.3 x 62 great round.but I think that a 270 grain 3375 at 2700 will shoot flatter than a 250 grain 9.3

quote:

Originally posted by kev5000:

quote:

capoward

Thanks for the kind reply I thought I was out of line and had no clue why .I have a browning lever 1895 in 9.3 x 62 great round but I think that a 270 grain 3375 at 2700 will shoot flatter than a 250 grain 9.3

The performance of the 270gr .375 and the 250gr .366/9.3 bullets are totally dependent upon the cartridge case they're being fired from; specify comparable capacity cases and the performance is virtually identical between the two.

What rifle action do you want to put the .375 B&M into?

I thought one could order the rifle from them completely done if not I would get a win short action as that is the one I think they work on? I just want a hard hitter that if needed can get out to 400 yards.elk.mule deer,caribou. some times need to reach out,but I like having a thumper.I live in Alaska and have a 50 alaskan and a 416 Rigby,so want something that can shoot long range,400 yards,but lighter than either,The 416 can reach out,but that 25 inch barrel and weight,oh may,Kev

Kev,

Here's the link to Michael's website:
http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

You can contact him directly through the website.

quote:

Originally posted by kev5000:
Michael 458.maybe I have not seen it here.but I am surprised that there is not more interest in the 375B%M.There is a wide selection of bullets and I think I saw it can get 2700fps with a 270 grain bullet.which has a high BC making it I think the flatest shooting of the B&M ?? I think that is with a 20 inch barrel.what would the weight of that rifle Be

Yes Kev, the boys are pulling your leg some, as they know I don't care much for 375--short story is, it's just common. Every time I turn around someone is touting the 375 as being an all around best African caliber--NOT. It's not a buffalo caliber nor the best for the heavies. Amateurs use the 375s for this work, sissy girls that are afraid of recoil and so forth. So 375 is on my Sh*t List, right at the very top. So much so, that while there is a 375 B&M, I won't have one! LOL......

Now, all that said, as a medium, it's actually just fine, and very good at what it does, as a medium, for like elk, moose, plains game, zebra all such things as that. It's just not and never will be a "Dangerous Game Caliber", not to me. 9.3 B&M is in the exact same category with me, an excellent medium for medium work.

History of the 375 B&M. Our friend in PA, John Hauldy, a B&M fanatic, has 2 416 B&Ms, 458 B&M, and two 50 B&M Super Shorts. Great guy, but he wanted a 375 B&M after I did a 9.3 B&M. After some begging, pleading, I told him that I would design it, get the reamers, send to SSK--but once he built the rifle, he was responsible for doing the load data on it. John agreed, and he proceeded with the project after Dave made the reamer and sent to SSK. I don't have much data on the 375 B&M as I have never messed with it. Later Sam built a modified 375 B&M, left it here for a month or so for me to mess with, but I could not work up one tiny bit of interest in it, so I sent it back with him on one of his visits.

The little bit of data given on the 375 B&M is from what John sent to me, and a tiny bit that I did. John is indeed running various 270 gr bullets to 2700 fps in his 20 inch barrel, and apparently has zero issues or problems. I tried to expand on that data with some other powders, and I was able to get well into the 2600-2650 fps area with Sam's rifle, but when approaching 2700 it was getting a little sticky. None of the data has been run through pressure traces.

John has used his rifle on elk and various other critters now with the 270s with great success from what I hear. John is featured on the 375 B&M Page with his rifle and elk he shot with it. His rifle is a 20 inch stainless, Ultimate stock and comes in at around 6.5 lbs without scope. Same as the 9.3 with the 20 inch barrels and Ultimate stocks.

Here is direct link to the 375 B&M Page.

http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/375-BM.html

I have done a good bit of work with the 9.3 B&M, pressure data, terminals, load data, the works. Just this year I took it to the field to test in Africa in April, and it was a huge success on zebra, wildebeast, hartebeast, impala, things like that. I used a 210 ESP Raptor from Cutting Edge, at 2900 fps from a 19 inch barrel rifle. I loose about 40-50 fps per inch of barrel, all the rest of the 9.3s have been 20 inch guns. In the 9.3 B&M I am able to run 250 Barnes TSX at 2700 fps and stay under pressures as well.

Both are good medium caliber rifles to be used for medium caliber things! While they can serve in the realm of buffalo, neither are buffalo calibers, you need more caliber to be effective on buffalo, and any dangerous game. Perhaps either would be excellent leopard guns, especially with one of the BBW#13s or Raptors. But even then, if I was leopard shooting, which I will never go on another "Leopard" hunt (I hate Leopards too), but if I did, I would choose one of the larger caliber Super Shorts and just knock the living hell out of them!

I think either 9.3 or 375 would meet your goals of having a super easy to carry, compact rifle in medium caliber.

Michael

Thanks for filling me in,ad I agree with you and that is what I am looking for a medium round that if needed will take on large bears,if I should run into a problem and yes it has happen to me one almost got my beloved dog and I had only a 44 mag handgun shot near it and it took its sweet time to leave,do not fool with my dog.Anyway I have ab rigby and a 50 alaskan that I shoot 570 grain bullet at 1800fps with it,got the big ones cover so a light weigh rifle for backpacking yet hits hard it need.Now which one the 375 or 9.3 must think,if hunting elk may need to shoot as far as 350-400 yards once in a blue moon. but it is nice to know you can do it if needed,6.5 puonds 20 inch barrel, I like it alot

So with ultimate win stock and 20 inch barrel both the 9.3 and 375 come in at only 6.5 pounds if that is the case I now hate you! as you are going drive up my credit cards,must have.Both these rounds would be great for mule deer,elk ,caribou and longer range game with hitting power I am loven this.And if a bear comes looking for trouble he has bitten off more than he can chew.those bears bug me have had a few incounters with them don't trust them much.

quote:

Originally posted by kev5000:
So with ultimate win stock and 20 inch barrel both the 9.3 and 375 come in at only 6.5 pounds if that is the case I now hate you! as you are going drive up my credit cards,must have.Both these rounds would be great for mule deer,elk ,caribou and longer range game with hitting power I am loven this.And if a bear comes looking for trouble he has bitten off more than he can chew.those bears bug me have had a few incounters with them don't trust them much.

HEH HEH...........

Kev, don't go look at the 50 B&M Super Short---6.25 lbs, 16 inch barrel, .500 caliber, real and proper bear medicine, turn a bear inside out and then some. LOL................

Opps, don't take credit cards! Might save you some money that way! But, I do take a check, and there are discounts for suitcases full of CASH!...

Not having internet service at bear hunting camp sense 8-9.

I sure missed a lot of successful hunting and testing.

Congratulations to everyone's success.

Michael and the boy's have more than reassured me, that my 50 B&M Super Short will be more than up to any task I could put it up to, short of a bull elephant.

Without CEB's and North Fork bullets that have been developed for the B&M SS they would never be the heavy weights they are...........Thanks Michael!

Gone are the days of grabbing the 12 ga. to track bears. My 50 B&M Super Short is my go to gun now. It's 3" shorter and a pound lighter and double the knock down power. And at least 4 times the penetration of a Brenneke slug.

Michael are B&M patches available to purchase. I would like to put one on my orange hunting hat and camo hat.

Coyote

Good to hear from you buddy! How was bear camp???

Oh, you have no worries on the 50 Super Short and bears of any size, shape nor color, the Super Short will put them in the dirt, but just as you say, use the right bullet and we have those! And either CEB or North Fork we all did a great job in getting them there, and you are very welcome, but no thanks needed.

Patches! No, I sure don't have any for sale, not to a B&M fellow like yourself, but if I had your address I can get some coming your way--Have the gray/black and the yellow/red, which one, how many or both?

Much else in the works too right now, shirts and T'Shirts.

And hats as well.

Michael

Michael,
Sent a PM with hunting camp address.

I've been at camp sense 8/9 baiting. First day of hunting season is 9/10.

The past three years bear numbers have been slowly dropping in my area. The DNR this year finely listened to me and lowered tag numbers 40%. It's going to take at least 5 years to bring numbers back to where they were 4 years ago, I hope.

One hunter is coming on 9/15 she was going to use a 7mm Rem.Mag."rat gun" She has shot 2 bears with me and is a very good shot.

I convinced her to use my 50 B&M SS. She is a meat hunter. So the first 200 lb. boar is going to be "tested".

Coyote

Got the address, expect some patches coming your way next week!

Well, although it sounds like there has been a decline of bears, you may have them moving in the right direction. Good.

Very excellent, you will get to see what happens to bears when they cross a 50 B&M Super Short!


Have you been shooting? I can't recall if we spoke about that? If so, what loads are you going to use?

Michael

I just wanted to thank Michael458 for being more than helpful,the man does not know me and is helping me get a m70 wsm and it is a great deal thanks again Michael. The next thing I'll try to do is change your mind on the great 375

He is a dine man to deal with. You will not be disappointed with any b&m rifle you get. I have one and am foing back for more in a couple of weeks!

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

Have you been shooting? I can't recall if we spoke about that? If so, what loads are you going to use?

Michael

Michael,
I've put over 160 round threw it so far.
CEB 345gr. 51 gr. of Lil'Gun 2336 fps

kev5000,
Just go with 9.3 B&M, your going to use CEB bullets. Michael has done all the load data, it would be a load and go.

This winter SSK Ind. will be building me a 9.3 B&M. I must admit that once I though about building a 375 B&M, but change my mind when the 210 Raptors came out.

I just spent part of the afternoon waking up the neighbors shooting the 500 MDM. Good stuff. Worked on rapid shooting drills today. I got a way to go, but sure is fun training. Today i did it with movement in between shots working the bolt while moving and the shhoting as soon as bolt was worked .

quote:

Originally posted by brent ebeling:
I just spent part of the afternoon waking up the neighbors shooting the 500 MDM. Good stuff. Worked on rapid shooting drills today. I got a way to go, but sure is fun training. Today i did it with movement in between shots working the bolt while moving and the shhoting as soon as bolt was worked .

Brent,

Are you using the 500gr .500 Hornady Interlock XTP FN bullets for practice? Reason I ask is that they can be periodically picked up as factory blems for a very reasonable price and they make great practice bullets for the .500 caliber cartridges.

Sam made Michael, and later myself, a pointing die that rounds the exposed lead flat nose of the XTP bullets for better feeding and slightly better BC. They were very accurate at 200yds from one of Michael’s 50 B&M AI stocked M70 rifles when I fired it here in Kali in June of 2010.

No cap, i have been using those expensive CEB non cons. I will be at Michaels in a few weeks, i will ask him about the die you are speaking of. Wu
Ould be nice to work on drills with less espensive bullets.