Doc M,
Yep, you got the same weight for the stock as I did, 1.75 lbs or 1#-12oz.

The dry weight of the rifle, with open sights only, is now 6#-14oz.
Scoped: 7#-12oz.

RIP

Much improvement! I am not much on plastic stocks, but I do like that cheap little Ultimate. Looks good, feels good, must be good! Where have I heard that before?

Hmmmmm?

Excellent.

Michael

Die sets have started trickling in from Hornady. Last week 5 sets of 500 MDM, this week 5 sets of 50 B&M and 5 sets of 458 B&M.



Left to go--458 B&M Super Short, 458 B&M SA, 375 B&M, 9.3 B&M

Michael

I love seeing the pictures of these rifles, but dang it, to me they scream peep and post with a scout scope to facilitate easier reloading of the magazine with eyes up. But that is just me...

quote:

Originally posted by johnnyreb:
I love seeing the pictures of these rifles, but dang it, to me they scream peep and post with a scout scope to facilitate easier reloading of the magazine with eyes up. But that is just me...

JR those are back on page 2...towards the bottom of the page.

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Die sets have started trickling in from Hornady. Last week 5 sets of 500 MDM, this week 5 sets of 50 B&M and 5 sets of 458 B&M.
Michael

I have ordered two diesets in 458 Accurate Reloading from Hornady several months ago, but have heard nothing yet..
Glad to hear that you got yours..

Buffalo

The dies I have been getting the last couple of weeks have been on order 5-6 months now. They are already in the Hornady system, like the 458 AR's. Dies that are new and not in the system seem to be taking a little longer! We have several new ones, John is busting to get at the 375 B&M and I am the same about the little 458 Super Short! Hornady says they are next? Fortunately I am in a habit of ordering 5 sets at a time, so I try to have some on hand for folks, 5-6 months is a very long time to wait! We can't start load development until we get the dies on the new ones!

JR

You can set one up any way you want. Just pick what you want to do!

Michael

HENRY, ALEXANDER - 450 3 1/4" BPE HAMMER FALLING BLOCK - A NEAR PERFECT BORE - ORIGINAL GUN - 90% ENGRAVING COVERAGE - 14" LOP Over a Checkered Steel Butt - Only 6 Lbs. 14 Oz. - Rear Bolted Lock - A Super Piece of Wood - Left Side Lock - It Feels Like it is Alive
Style: Caliber: Price:
Bolt Rifle

450 3 1/4" BPE $9,950.00
Description:
#2134, Alex'r Henry 12 South St. Andrew St. Edinburgh, Patent No's 1454 and 352: A Totally Original Alexander Henry Rear Bolted Left Hand Lock 450 3 1/4" Black Powder Express Single Shot with Alexander Henry's Hammer Falling Block Action that was Made in 1871 with a 27 1/4" barrel, An island sight with 1 standing & 1 folding gold lined rear sights, Island front ramp, The barrel carries the serial number of 2134 and stamped A.H., It has a left hand lock, Stepped lockplate, It has the early type of lock attachment, The hammer with a rear bolted lock/safety, Dolphin style hammer, The rebate for the cartridge rim is cut in the breechblock and not the barrel breech which is very unusual on a Henry action, Martini style extractor, The trigger guard tang comes to within 3/4" of the grip cap, An engraved steel grip cap, The action number is 352, The barrel number is 1454, 90% coverage of classic period scroll engraving with full coverage on the top tang that is superb in style and execution, 14" LOP over a checkered steel buttplate with a round 1" trapdoor, 6 lbs. 14 oz., A very nice piece of wood with excellent color and contrast, This 139 year old Classic is totally original with 85% barrel blue, 15% original case colors, The wood with original finish and it is as solid as it was 139 years ago, Granted it has its share of nicks and dings but there isn't a crack to be had, The checkering is still 90%, The bore is excellent plus and absolutely looks like new, The screws are all of 95% correct and sharp. The inside of the lock remains at 97% and the inletting is crisp and sharp with zero oil soak. This is another first rate quality piece with style, grace, workmanship, handling and Alexander Henry romance from a great period at the pinnacle of sporting guns in the last years of the 19th century.




Another 6#-14oz .458 at Champlins.
Ballistics of this:
Easily duplicated by a 6#-14oz .458 B&M,
just use blackpowder!

Shootin' this weekend.

RIP

First, that 450 is a work of art, no doubt. Maybe with the weight, the beginning of a B&M, roots? Wow! Very Nice, above my pay grade. Not sure the barrel length, but probably needs to be whacked to about 20 or so for proper aesthetics?

Ok, waiting on a shooting report! How do you like the way the little Ultimate stock feels? Oh, if you are shooting heavy loads, duct tape your trigger finger up with the Ultimate stock, bolt wants to knock the bark off your finger! Just one roll around the finger will do and save some skin. Other than that zero issues. Maybe if you have hair on your fingers removing the duct tape? But that is only after the first time, then it's ok from there, no hair left. HEH.

Sometime this morning try to post photos of Sams 50s and 458.

Wonder where Con is with his 458B&M? Have not heard in some time now????

Wonder where my XX English 18 inch Gunkote 458 B&M is too??????? Hmmmm? Nearly forgot about it with all the other shooting things going on?

Michael

I would prefer a banded frontsight on the stainless rifle pictured above.I got this feeling lately, against the idea of drilling anything into my barrel.The rifle looks nice,BTW.I like to be assured that if the rifle is not shooting well,it is not caused by anything stressing the rifling.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I would prefer a banded frontsight on the stainless rifle pictured above.I got this feeling lately, against the idea of drilling anything into my barrel.The rifle looks nice,BTW.I like to be assured that if the rifle is not shooting well,it is not caused by anything stressing the rifling.

Hey Shootaway, where you been? Are you talking about the NECG barrel band front sight??? Are you worried that this is a problem??

Just want to be clear

M

sorry,meant the rear sight

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
sorry,meant the rear sight

Shootaway

You are worried about the rear sight being attached to the barrel?

M

Yes,the hole drilled in the barrel to attach the sight or sight base.

Shootaway

I am getting in the truck right now. I am headed to Montreal, as I am driving up, leave me your phone number, because I want a truck load of those free Canadian drugs you are taking. Can you arrange that?


No man, you know I am messing with you!

Concerning the rear sight, I have those installed on---I went to count, hell I run out of toes and fingers, but 50 + being conservative, rifles. On 15-20 rifles I have that SSK T'SOB forward rail mounted and it has 4 great big heavy holes in it, and Winchester has been mounting the same NECG rear barrel mounted sight on Custom Shop big bores for many years before closing down New Haven. All rear barrel mounted big bore sights have big gaping holes in the barrels to mount them on. I have never in my life heard of an issue with that? What's it going to do? What difference could it possibly make?

Next time you come down south stop on by and visit awhile!

Michael

Before I get started posting yesterdays test reports on the 577 Nitros on TBP thread I will show off Sam's B&Ms. Sam got the B&M Bug while he was here several months ago, now has a 375 Modified B&M, a 458 B&M, two 50 B&Ms and a 50 B&M Super Short. Well, I always say if 1 is good, then 3-4 is real good!



Michael

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Yes,the hole drilled in the barrel to attach the sight or sight base.

Solder the base on if you don't want to drill holes in the barrel. If you don't like it heat it up and take it off. The front sights on my B&M's are soldered on.

I should be in NC before midnight.Just kidding but thanks anyway.Who wouldn't want to see all your rifles and hear about your hunting adventures?

Shootaway

Well that's an invite for real, ever get down this way let me know and drop on by!

But if you stop in NC you will be one state short, keep on digging till you cross that state line into the "Free State" of South Carolina, we may leave the Union again soon!

Michael

Sorry,
Fighting actions on multiple fronts here, and weather not satisfactory for my outdoor chrono requirements.
Tests of my new .458 B&M will have to wait, aiming to verify some findings that Doc M has established regarding effects of twist on Barnes Buster .458/400gr FN-FMJ.
Later,
Letter Rip

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

Originally posted by johnnyreb:
I love seeing the pictures of these rifles, but dang it, to me they scream peep and post with a scout scope to facilitate easier reloading of the magazine with eyes up. But that is just me...

JR those are back on page 2...towards the bottom of the page.

Yeah, I saw them, and I think michael458 and I chatted back and forth about them a little bit on pages 5 or 6. I have been itching for a 458, but the time is just not right for me right now. What little reloading and range time I have for the rest of the summer will be dedicated to getting handloads together for my CZ527 6.5 Grendel. Next thing I know, it will be deer season in northern NY...

quote:

Originally posted by johnnyreb:
Yeah, I saw them, and I think michael458 and I chatted back and forth about them a little bit on pages 5 or 6. I have been itching for a 458, but the time is just not right for me right now. What little reloading and range time I have for the rest of the summer will be dedicated to getting handloads together for my CZ527 6.5 Grendel. Next thing I know, it will be deer season in northern NY...

I know what you mean. If you’re looking for a 458 in the 458 WinMag power range, that is very accurate as well as being wrapped in a nice light handy package short package, then the 458 B&M will definitely work for you. Also it’s light weight will not beat you to death. I realize that the internet folklore dictates the 458 WinMag to weight at least 9lbs because of its recoil… …but we had two ladies fire Michael’s 50 B&M at the West Coast Hoot & Shoot in June. Neither complained of being brutalized by the recoil and I might also add that they both fired the rifle very accurately.

So far I’ve fired Michael’s rifles in 416 B&M, 458 B&M, 50 B&M, and the 50 B&M Super Short…the 458 was nice but really didn’t do anything for me…principally because the 416 B&M and 50 B&M really peaked my interest…and between the two nothing else is really needed. Well maybe the 9.3B&M and a 6.5 B&M…(um…think that one is the 6.5 WSM) for smaller game animals and vermin. Anyway I was pleasantly surprised just how accurate and flat shooting the 416 was with both 350gr Barnes TSX and 350gr Speer MagTips bullets at 325yds…all of 7 ½ lbs including a Leupold VX3 1x5 scope. Yep guy could get by with just the 416 but what’s the fun in that. Now the 50 B&M…definitely a big bore easy to fall in love with and also accurate at a longer distance than one would think; I was able to hit a metal gong (think it was a worn 16” circular saw blade) five out of six shots at 200yds offhand using iron sights…with my eyesight I definitely need a scope at that distance. Oh yeah, the little 50 B&M Super Short…definitely a fun shooting hog gun…and if I lived in bear country I’d have one hanging off my shoulder while walking around the property…a definite step up in power from the 500 S&W and being a rifle also more accurate, at least for me.

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

Originally posted by johnnyreb:
Yeah, I saw them, and I think michael458 and I chatted back and forth about them a little bit on pages 5 or 6. I have been itching for a 458, but the time is just not right for me right now. What little reloading and range time I have for the rest of the summer will be dedicated to getting handloads together for my CZ527 6.5 Grendel. Next thing I know, it will be deer season in northern NY...

I know what you mean. If you’re looking for a 458 in the 458 WinMag power range, that is very accurate as well as being wrapped in a nice light handy package short package, then the 458 B&M will definitely work for you. Also it’s light weight will not beat you to death. I realize that the internet folklore dictates the 458 WinMag to weight at least 9lbs because of its recoil… …but we had two ladies fire Michael’s 50 B&M at the West Coast Hoot & Shoot in June. Neither complained of being brutalized by the recoil and I might also add that they both fired the rifle very accurately.

So far I’ve fired Michael’s rifles in 416 B&M, 458 B&M, 50 B&M, and the 50 B&M Super Short…the 458 was nice but really didn’t do anything for me…principally because the 416 B&M and 50 B&M really peaked my interest…and between the two nothing else is really needed. Well maybe the 9.3B&M and a 6.5 B&M…(um…think that one is the 6.5 WSM) for smaller game animals and vermin. Anyway I was pleasantly surprised just how accurate and flat shooting the 416 was with both 350gr Barnes TSX and 350gr Speer MagTips bullets at 325yds…all of 7 ½ lbs including a Leupold VX3 1x5 scope. Yep guy could get by with just the 416 but what’s the fun in that. Now the 50 B&M…definitely a big bore easy to fall in love with and also accurate at a longer distance than one would think; I was able to hit a metal gong (think it was a worn 16” circular saw blade) five out of six shots at 200yds offhand using iron sights…with my eyesight I definitely need a scope at that distance. Oh yeah, the little 50 B&M Super Short…definitely a fun shooting hog gun…and if I lived in bear country I’d have one hanging off my shoulder while walking around the property…a definite step up in power from the 500 S&W and being a rifle also more accurate, at least for me.

Ha, too funny. When I first saw the thread, I told myself I needed a 416 B&M, and then I started looking at reloading components, and decided a 458 B&M would be more fun to play with. My current and only "big" is a CZ550 9.3x62 American, which must weigh close to 10 pounds "all up" (full magazine, sling, CZ rings, Leupold 1.75 to 6), and it is easy to shoot off the bench, even after a round of sporting clays with a fixed breech 12 gauge. I think it handles well though, but I am 6'2" tall, and longer guns "feel" a little better for some reason. My 10th wedding anniversary is coming up in 2014, and my wife and I are formulating plans for a three part trip to sub Saharan Africa, the beginning and end being tourist stuff, and the middle being hunting. Thus, I can justify another rifle to take with my 9.3... My 458 B&M will have to be peep and post with a scout scope, and (blasphemy) a 21" barrel... Flame on!

quote:

Originally posted by johnnyreb:
Ha, too funny. When I first saw the thread, I told myself I needed a 416 B&M, and then I started looking at reloading components, and decided a 458 B&M would be more fun to play with. My current and only "big" is a CZ550 9.3x62 American, which must weigh close to 10 pounds "all up" (full magazine, sling, CZ rings, Leupold 1.75 to 6), and it is easy to shoot off the bench, even after a round of sporting clays with a fixed breech 12 gauge. I think it handles well though, but I am 6'2" tall, and longer guns "feel" a little better for some reason. My 10th wedding anniversary is coming up in 2014, and my wife and I are formulating plans for a three part trip to sub Saharan Africa, the beginning and end being tourist stuff, and the middle being hunting. Thus, I can justify another rifle to take with my 9.3... My 458 B&M will have to be peep and post with a scout scope, and (blasphemy) a 21" barrel... Flame on!

6”2” tall…21” barrel… Hey no laughing from me! I have 35” sleeve length though I’m only 5’10” tall and require a standard 13 ½” pull length stock for cold weather and a 14 ¼” to 14 ½” pull length stock for hot/warm weather. Michael’s factory Ultimate stocks only have a 13 ¼” pull length stock and all shooting was done in warm/hot weather so I had to hunker around the stock a bit to keep the scope away from the eyebrows and thumb away from the eye! I’ve already informed Michael that I require a 1” longer pull length stock…and a 1” longer barrel to balance out the extra stock length. So you just go ahead and run that barrel length out to 21” to balance your stock pull length.

Hey just thought, if you’re balancing your 9.3x62 with the big bore what about upsizing to the upcoming 475 B&M…plenty of big bore pistol bullets in that caliber for plinking and practicing as well as quality monometal rifle bullets from 300gr through 500gr (hollow point and FN solids)! Or just go ahead with the 458.

LOL…all is good, regardless of selection.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
The barrel on my .458 B&M is 19.5" long, from breech face to 11-degree recessed muzzle crown.
I like it!



The 300 WSM above for comparison is the new South Carolina model, with B&C Kevlar stock that weighs 2#0oz. with full bedding block.
Barreled action is 4#15oz.
Dry rifle weight is 6#15oz.
24" fluted barrel is only 0.595" at the muzzle.
Trigger pull is 4.5 pounds with "new & improved" trigger set at factory. .

Hey RIP…How do you like the B&C stock on that 300 WSM Extreme Weather SS rifle?

Ruger No.1 .458 Win. Mag, Leupold FX 4x duplex.

J.D.,
You are just a rechamber away from a 450 Nitro Express 3.25", granddaddy of all Nitro Expresses, though I have yet to have any problems with a Ruger No.1 on rimless or belted cartridges.

Jim,
That Kevlar stock with full bedding block is the hounddog's howl, better than the cat's meow!
It is, however 1/4 pound heavier than the Ultimate stock.
The spacer for the ultimate stock ought to make two-piece bottom metal fit it too,
though the new rifles have one-piece.
If the Ultimate stock ever fails to please, the .458 B&M will go into the Kevlar.

To think that I could have cut three more inches off the barrel of that .458 B&M, and shaved a few more ounces!
Doc M has some 16"-barreled 50 B&Ms that weigh 6#-4oz., so it is written.
My .458 B&M with 19.5" barrel is 6#-14oz, heavy by comparison!!! .

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Jim,
That Kevlar stock with full bedding block is the hounddog's howl, better than the cat's meow!
It is, however 1/4 pound heavier than the Ultimate stock.
The spacer for the ultimate stock ought to make two-piece bottom metal fit it too,
though the new rifles have one-piece.
If the Ultimate stock ever fails to please, the .458 B&M will go into the Kevlar.

To think that I could have cut three more inches off the barrel of that .458 B&M, and shaved a few more ounces!
Doc M has some 16"-barreled 50 B&Ms that weigh 6#-4oz., so it is written.
My .458 B&M with 19.5" barrel is 6#-14oz, heavy by comparison!!! .

Great to know. I have a B&C Medalist on order for my M98 based 50 MDM.

RIP

Jim and I talked about that stock some time ago. They are available and I looked at getting one, just have not got around to it yet. A bit pricey on their own as I recall too! At least compared to the Ultimate. Yes, that little spacer will work with any 1 piece stock with a 2 piece gun.

I tried to get you to 18 inches but who listens to me anyway! Nahh, you fine with that 19.5, need to see what you can do with it anyway.

Yes, Billy had his full 50 B&M cut to 16.25. I tested the 510 gr Solid from it with the same loads as the 18 inch guns. With 70 gr of IMR 4198 the 510 does 2105 out of most of the 18 inch guns. In Billy's 16 inch gun same load does 2080 fps. 25 fps, not much for 2 inches of barrel.

The 458 B&M would still be rather effective at 16. I think one might loose more velocity with the smaller bore from 18 to 16 with most loads, but you would still be around 2150-2175 fps with the 450s, more than enough for buffalo and what have you!

You know guys I was thinking today. With most of these cartridges I have not found or investigated their true full potential. There are many powders that I have not worked with or tried. I have done quite a bit, but there could easy be powders that would be very effective out there that I have not tried. Bullets yes, I have and will always continue to work with different bullets to enhance the cartridges even further, but there are discoveries that could be made for sure! I expect Doc RIP may very well make some of those discoveries!!!

Michael

quote:

Jim and I talked about that stock some time ago. They are available and I looked at getting one, just have not got around to it yet. A bit pricey on their own as I recall too! At least compared to the Ultimate.

Yep, $257.45 in basic black with 14.5" pull length...but cheaper than some others and far cheaper than a decent walnut stock (that'll happen down the road).

Jim

Yes, $257 that is about what I remember. Oh I think it's a nice stock for sure. Has a chassis the action sits in right? I am big on that chassis for these guns, regardless.

I just got news tonight that the 50 B&M has claimed another standard stock. My buddy Lou in Ohio has a 50 built on the standard sporter stock. I have seen a several 50s on this stock, I have two including gun #1 that was built on this stock and had at least a couple of 1000 rounds shot through it without a problem, but Lou's stock has cracked on the forend. Lou has been looking for an excuse to call Accurate Innovations anyway.

Well I leave it to you guys, dark on my side of the world and past my roosting time.

M

I have several B&C stocks and they are very nice. CDNN has the coyote lite stocks at $149 I think and this is the B&C stock. The stocks are a little heavy but very well made.

Michael, The stocks that are breaking, have these been glass and pillar bedded? Glass bedding should help a lot and I'm not talking about that clump of hot glue that Winchester puts in the recoil lug area.

Sam

quote:

I have several B&C stocks and they are very nice. CDNN has the coyote lite stocks at $149 I think and this is the B&C stock. The stocks are a little heavy but very well made.

I think the Coyote Lite Stocks are an offshoot of the B&C Standard Varmint Stock…I think about 2lb 8oz weight… with the slits to slightly reduce weight…though not sure how much weight is saved…perhaps 4oz or so? And fortunately due to RIP’s weighing the two stocks, we know that the factory Winchester WSM Ultimate stock weighs 1lb 12oz while the new B&C (Medalist) manufactured Winchester WSM Extreme Weather stock weighs 2lb even. So for an additional 4oz one gets the full length aluminum bedding block (plus an extra ½” in stock pull length).

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Michael, The stocks that are breaking, have these been glass and pillar bedded? Glass bedding should help a lot and I'm not talking about that clump of hot glue that Winchester puts in the recoil lug area.
Sam

Sam

Yes, Brian does a jam up bedding job on the rifle. Total and complete. This is the first sporter stock I have heard of busting on the guns. Those do not have much figure in them, pretty straight grain. This one must have just had some figure where it cracked. His rifle has not been shot that much either, probably less than 200 rounds, and I did half that getting it ready for him. He had to have a brake on his so I had Brian shorten the barrel to 17 then ugly brake put on.

Jim/Sam

I got one of those Lite Stocks from CDNN for that heavier barrel 6.5 WSM. It's ok, too wide at the front for me. Of course that's a "monkey" rifle, for one purpose only, not a toting around gun.

M

Guys I have to tell you I am very excited this morning. We are getting ready to enhance the capabilities and expand the versatility of all the .500 caliber cartridges. While we have excellent bullets already available for these cartridges and rifles, 500 MDM, 50 B&M, 50 B&M Alaskan, and the 50 B&M Super Short, we can always add to versatility with a new bullet line.

I am working with North Fork Tech on doing just that!

We are working on several designs based on the entire North Fork Line! While exact weights are not 100% they will be close, a 450 gr FPS and CPS for the 500 MDM and 50 B&M, a 375 FPS and CPS for the 50 B&M Super Short and 50 B&M AK. Now these are in very early development, but we are looking at a 450-500 gr Bonded Core for the 500 MDM and 50 B&M, a 450 gr for the 50 B&M AK, and a 350 gr for the 50 Super Short.

As all of you know my philosophy on this, but repeat and repeat again---A cartridge is only as good as it's bullet, the bullet does the heavy lifting and can make or break a cartridge! It's all about the Bullet in the end!

No doubt I will keep you posted on this new development.

Michael

I posted this over on the Terminal Penetration Thread...posting here incase someone doesn't track both.

quote:

We are working on several designs based on the entire North Fork Line! While exact weights are not 100% they will be close, a 450 gr FPS and CPS for the 500 MDM and 50 B&M, a 375 FPS and CPS for the 50 B&M Super Short and 50 B&M AK. Now these are in very early development, but we are looking at a 450-500 gr Bonded Core for the 500 MDM and 50 B&M, a 450 gr for the 50 B&M AK, and a 350 gr for the 50 Super Short.

Hopefully the bonded core will be based upon their new design/technology...that I believe they were developing to make the bonded core bullets useable in DRs…basically make them bore-riders.

Wow!
Congratulations!
Your excitement is warranted and I share in the excitement.
With a bullet maker like North Fork added to the line up of .500" bullets not only in their FPS and CPS bullets but their softs is a big deal. Having softs that will hold up to rifle velocities has been the big opening here.
OK
Now for my thoughts.
For the 50 Super Short there are lighter softs and solids but what I was thinking was a 400 grain soft to duplicate the 45-70 power in the super short, duplicating the 450/400 power in the 50B&M AK/AR and 50 B&M Alaskan. The softs will take up less powder room so even more reason to go heavy. 400 grain .500" softs will be stubby as heck! In the 50 B&M the 400 grain bullet will duplicate the 416 Rigby in power. Was thinking a semi tough 400 grainer to duplicate the expansion of those bullets at their nominal velocities. Duplicating an expanded 400 grain 458 bullet at 1800 and duplicating the expansion of 410 and 416 bullets at higher velocities.
Ok now a 480 grain soft bullet can duplicate the 450 NE and a 570 grain perfectly duplicating the 500 NE perfectly in terms of weight and diameter. Softs are a great excuse to go heavy to duplicate these carts in the .500" diameter since the lighter softs and solids are already there. Heavy softs at moderate velocity will have greater appeal than lighter softs at higher velocity IMHO and we already have that covered.

Ok those were just my thoughts and I hope they were not perceived as criticism. I am excited to see world class softs in the .500" diameter!!!
Michael you have been a busy bee lol
I do have the 500 Kill All reamer and dies... Makes me want to dream about building it.

Boomy and Jim

Yes, I am very excited about the series of new bullets. We are working hard and very fast. North Fork guys are amazing and we are going to have prototypes very quickly on the CPS and FPS bullets. What I want is a 450 gr Expanding CPS with a matching FPS for the 500 MDM and 50 B&M. 450 grs is perfect for the 50, will be running it at well over 2200 fps in 18 inches, and into 2500 fps in the 500 MDM, no buffalo on the planet can deal with that. The next set is a 375 primary for the 50 Super Short, and we think it will be dandy in the 50 B&M AK also, almost sure of it at this point. I think it is possible the 450 will also work in the lever guns, especially the M71s, with the Marlins we have to watch overall length, but I think we will be close.

OK I have made a command decision this afternoon concerning the premium soft points. It is very expensive tooling up for these, and I had 3 bullets slated. A 350 for the 50 Super Short, but I am dropping that from the line because of the tooling expense, it's not worth it for the Super Short, reason, we already have some excellent bullets for the 50 Super Short, and Swift has a 325 that will work fine in that capacity for the Super Short.

Next I had a pointy 450 gr premium bonded for 500 MDM and 50 B&M, and a flat point 450 gr for the 50 B&M AK. Right now we are going to proceed with the flat point version for the lever gun, it's the most needed as we come up a little short with the lever guns. Now depending on HOW flat the nose is, this bullet may or should work fine in the bolt guns too. So before we do the pointy version, we are moving forward with a bullet primarily designed for the lever action rifles, and we will see how it works in the bolt guns. It may work just dandy!

Now while we cannot change the nose profile once the dies are done, the weight can be changed without much of an issue. I am told by the powers at North Fork that weight is not an issue, a run can be made at 450 or 500 grs or even down to much less. Nose profile stays the same. So this bullet may be taken just about to any weight desired on a run! I think 450 is where I want to be with the 50 B&M AK levers, this can be run to 2000 in the marlins, and maybe up to 2100 fps in the M71s. This would hammer buffalo, backed with solids, look out buffalo!

So this is what is coming, and coming pretty quick.

Now this is good for all .500 shooters, not just the B&Ms. While designed for the B&Ms, these will work in other .500s too. THinking of RIPs upcoming 500 Tornado he has been in talks with 2Recon with. The new soft point, while designed for the 50 B&M AK, it will serve an excellent gap that is in the 500 S&W guns at 450 grs.

Michael

The .500"-diameter North Forks in 450 to 500 grains will be super, whether flat nose soft or semi-spitzer.
The flat nose will work for levers and revolvers in 500 S&W and up!
Will be tough enough for even the .500 MDM and .490 Lapua of similar power.
500 grain FN-softs and FN-solids and cup points would be my pick.
Use the Hornady plastic-tipped 300-grain XTPs for varminting.

Sure, I'll find a use for them in the ".490/.500/.338LM Lapua, with German-Engineering by 2RECON Michael.

However, nowadays I get most of my wildcatting thrills vicariously, by just reading the M.B.I.T. research threads.
M.B.I.T. (Myrtle Beach Institute of Technology) is the South Carolina, USA extension of W.U.A.R. (World University of Accurate Reloading).

Most serious scholars refer to this institution by the shorthand of WUAR-MBIT.

RIP

How goes the .490/.500/338LM Lapua? Moving forward? Remember, whatever I have you have, and we have bullets! Thinking that big 550 SSK Solids, 510 Solids and HPs take your choice, and now North Forks! With this selection of proper bullets, .500 is covered from end to end! Conventional Premium to all sorts of NoN Cons, and excellent solid designs for every occasion!

When you get that cartridge up and running I would like to have a couple of samples (wonder-fit in a Winchester-not easy I think). Anyway, bullets are here so good to go!

As for the North Forks, I am excited about those. I am demented I am sure, and getting worse. I can't think of a bullet these days without thinking "how it will work on buffalo", I suppose in the back of my mind, if it works on buffalo, it will work on anything under that easy.

For the 450 gr FPS and CPS. The reason I went with this weight and not heavier is mostly concerned with the 50 B&M and it's case capacity. As we know here and on TBP, SD is not at the top of the list with solids and NonCons any longer, it's at the bottom. A 450 North Fork CPS and FPS in the 50 B&M can get well over 2200 and most likely into 2250 fps in 18 inches. So I happen to know a little bit about that velocity and buffalo, it will work just dandy, plenty of penetration with either, and hit plenty hard enough. Now moving up to the 500 MDM, which most likely I will carry less in the field in the future than the 50 B&M, this same 450 will be very easy to get to 2450-2500 fps, that is a hammer on buffalo, slam'em to the dirt hammer!

Now the 375 gr FPS and CPS. Mostly to enhance the capabilities of the 50 Super Short. Again, choosing this weight class to get velocity up to 2100+ fps in the super short. Remember how well the 325-350 North Fork CPS penetrated, 21-26 inches in various 458s? Now SD is a tiny factor now going from .458 to .500, but I suspect penetration will be in buffalo territory regardless with this Premium Non Con! Also we must remember that with our very best Premium bonded every day buffalo bullets such as various 458s--500 Woodleigh, 450 Swift-500 Swift, all these come in at 18-24 inches of penetration in the box! So the new .500 caliber 375 FPS and CPS will be in that territory I believe and velocity can be upwards of 2100 +, so this is a huge enhancement and combo for the Super Short.

Right now I think both these weights will also work in the 50 B&M AK lever guns too. In particular my favorite the M71s. The 375 weight class in the M71s can most likely get to well into 2250 fps and the 450s to 2000-2100 fps. This is into buffalo territory and of course anything less than buffalo.

Now for the Premium Soft Bonded, we have lot's of good non cons for the 50 B&M, 500 MDM, these will also work in the lever guns, but I have not (shame on me) put near the effort into the 50 B&MAK as I have the bolt guns! I simply must develop these guns more, and put a tad more effort than I have done so far. That being said, there is no suitable soft conventional premium for buffalo slamming. The 500 Hornady is superb in it's role as a thin skinned bullet, but it's not a buffalo bullet, simply too soft for that. This 450 flat nose from North Fork is going to be a fantastic bullet. I want 450 because again, can keep that velocity in respectable arena from 2000-2100 fps, good performance of course from the North Fork and a strong possibility that the same bullet will work in the Winchester M70s without modification, just depending on the nose profile we have to do for the lever guns, and the tubular magazine. Now if in fact feeding in the M70s is an issue, I can change the profile of this bullet slightly with my handy dandy "Nose Forming Die" that my chief bastard file engineer from Bastard Bullet Works made for me, none other than the Genius SRose. This will do fine for the bolt guns, and not change the terminal performance of the bullet. But only if needed, and I suspect it may not be needed at all, Win M70s do pretty well in this department.

So we are off and running. I hate to make comments, but I suspect will have the first prototypes of the FPS and CPS within a couple of weeks! Once that is settled, then we go to work on the Bonded Premium!

Whew, sorry, get all excited when working with bullets! Bullets make the cartridge! Without the bullet, the rest is moot!

I suppose I could also make another statement, keep a look out in future Rifle Shooter for what appears to be a rather good article coming from Layne Simpson on the 50 B&M AKs, and with sidebars or mentions of some sort of the other .500 caliber cartridges. Layne is just now getting started on the article, and is being very good to work with on it so far.

Keeping me busy between my normal work, B&M work, and bullet testing, does not get any better!

Also next week my Genius SRose has devised a set of 458 B&M Super Short dies! Don't ask how, I don't know, show me the baby, don't tell me about the labor pains. Sam knew I was jumping up and down to get started on load development of this little gun, waiting now for months for dies from Hornady to get started, Sam decided not to wait any more. Neither can I. So hopefully I will be able to get started working on that sometime next week.

Lot's of exciting things going on here at "MBIT"----MIB, can I get a black suit and glasses? That is sharp you know? MBIT is that close to MIB? Black suit, Lab Coat! Hmmmmm?

Excellent!

Michael