Boom stick that is very cool. I think I heard about the .405/.348 similarities at one point before. That would be an exceptional chambering in a bolt-action for North America.

quote:

Originally posted by 31/2Makesmelaugh:
Boom stick that is very cool. I think I heard about the .405/.348 similarities at one point before. That would be an exceptional chambering in a bolt-action for North America.

Or if you are looking for more case cap. than the .405 ream out your 1885 chamber to a 450-400-3".. Dies and cases from Hornady..
You should be able to load your .405 up to around 2050fps with 400gr bullets.. Might be all you need..

Thought about buying a Ruger No.1 in 450-400 Nitro 3" but ammo was too pricey and I got an exceptional deal on the 1885. I will stick with the .405 for a while.

3.5

No 410 B&M yet! I won't say never again, as that has been proved wrong a few times now! Some of you know you just have to keep at it, one day I take a notion to do something else so who knows!

I am an 1885 fan for sure. Don't do much work with one in the field, have too many other projects and rifles ahead of the 1885s to get to them. I still have not taken a 50 B&M AK to the field yet! Maybe I take it on the next Australian buff shoot?

Michael

Doc M,
Good luck with the musk ox.
Brian has acknowledged receipt of my .458 B&M parts, by email from him to me.
I await the magic elephant wand, a six-pounder more than adequate for anything that walks.

RIP

Thanks, I am headed out the door now for a long day of flying! We will see if the 330 NonCons 416 B&M have enough juice to knock them down. Beyond that I doubt I will do much bullet digging up there! Little cool for bullet digging, of course would keep the hands warm I suppose. But they will also be warm inside my gloves, that will be inside my coat!

I will catch you guys when I get back.

Michael

Michael,

Have a safe trip, keep those hands warm...let the guide dig those bullets out for you!

Hey Guys, I'm Back!

Some of the best advice I can give you, Do Not Fly United Airlines!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They lost my ammo somewhere in Chicago! I never received it at all for the hunt, only when we returned from! The 416 B&M never even got fired. I had to borrow my friends 338 Winchester to do my shooting. We stopped and waited in Yellowknife until the last two days of the hunt and I decided if I was going to shoot at all I better continue on. Shot both muskox at the same time within a hundred yards. One good note, 338 Winchester 225 gr Barnes X did a great job, I only shot one time each muskox, 1 went 10 yds the second went 10 ft. Zero issues, bullets passed completely through, appeared to cause lot's of trauma along the way!



Now to add icing to the cake, United lost the same bag on the way back home too, after we picked it up in Edmonton and took it with us, they lost it again! I have never seen such incompetence in all my life! NEVER EVER NEVER will I fly with United again. If the only way to get there is United, you might as well not even go, just forget it!

Michael

Congrats on a successful hunt!
Sorry to hear about the ammo.
That musk ox hide could make a great winter coat.
Makes me want to send the guide a care package before the flight for future hunts.
Alaska is gorgeous.
That airline should send you some Grey Goose!

Hey Boomy
Sorry, that's not Alaska, that's outside Cambridge Bay on Victoria Island, Nunavut Territory Canada about 40 miles out from camp.

Man the airline even hangs up on you when you try and talk to them! I won't be looking for any "I'm Sorry" or "Grey Goose". Not even sure any real people work at United. We called United in Chicago ALL DAY last Sunday to check on the bag, NO ANSWER on the phone ALL DAY LONG! Left messages, no return calls either. I guess they don't work on Sundays?

Michael

Canada is pretty too! I got it confused with some Alaskan town. Sorry.
What are your plans for the hide and skull trophy wise?

Well Done, MM!

Boomy

I will be doing 2 shoulder mounts and I have 2 back hides that will be tanned for my little girl. Always have to have something for her when we go out.

Jeffe

Thank You my Friend!


Got a call from my friend Patrick with Accurate Innovations today. He and his daughter did some shooting with one of my 458 B&M rifles the other day and he has it on the web site. What a hoot. Now be gentle guys, they are not used to shooting big bore rifles, so go easy on them! We all know the 458 B&M is a pussycat and easy to shoot! Of course Patricks daughter does very well with it (I think better than Patrick does) Go have a look!

http://www.accurateinnovations...Videos/thebiggun.mp4

Michael

It was fun to see the reaction on the girls face when she shot it.

With the right shooting technique anyone can shoot your B&M well. Even that 100 lb 16 year old.

I simply must put a good plug in for my friends at Accurate Innovations. Of course you guys already know that I do love the wood on my rifles! But getting a good piece is hard to come by at a reasonable price, and then putting them on the big bores is a special project in and of itself! Some know I have busted a few of the factory stocks on the B&Ms, and the MDM is famous for busting stocks. But with the Accurate Innovations stock and the Aluminum Chassis the action sits in--No More Busted Stocks!

Below is a busted factory stock I had on one of my 50 B&Ms


This stock busted, we thought we had pinned and repaired, and then it cracked again. So I had Accurate build a nice Turkish Walnut stock to go on the rifle, of course with the Aluminum Chassis that is standard on every rifle.

No more issues, problems solved.

On the 500 MDMs they very simply require an Accurate Innovations stock of some sort, with the chassis you can pretty much pick your wood and you won't have a problem. Currently I have 3 Win M70 500 MDM personal rifles, one English Walnut, Claro Walnut, and the Myrtle stocked gun I used in Australia for buffalo.

Of which the English gun is NEW since I got back and we will talk about it shortly. I have learned that the English Walnut is 1/2 lb heavier than the other stocks! Can be a plus, but if you are looking for less weight, then choose another wood. I can live with that exta 1/2 lb on the 500 MDMs, which brings it to only 8.75 lbs anyway. Not too bad, and lighter than any of my Win M70s in 458 lott that come in at 9.5 lbs bare naked!

Also while I was away last week I received two fine English stocks from AI, one for another 500 MDM that I will be holding for anyone that might wish to have one and the other for either a 50 B&M or maybe a 458 B&M.


On all my stocks I order from AI I add options that I like, first the length of the stock is important depending on the rifle. On the B&Ms sometimes with the short 18 inch barrels I like either 30-30.5 inches overall stock length and on the 500 MDMs I like 31.5 or so, not much more. With AI that is no problem. Also we have established our barrel channel measures to a standard, depending on the cartridge. I like shadow line cheek piece, ebony tips, ebony grip caps, AI's inlet sling studs, and the 1" Pach Decelerator pads as standard on all mine. Depending on whatever either the laser checkering, or hand checkering which is only a few more $$. So there are lot's of options to either add or not.

If you are thinking of wood, do go over and visit with AI for a bit on the website, it will be worth the effort.

http://www.accurateinnovations.com/

And don't forget to go and see the video of the 458 B&M they have currently. In the next few days I am sending up one of the 500 MDMs for them to demo for a few weeks!

http://www.accurateinnovations...Videos/thebiggun.mp4

Good guys to work with!

Michael

Hey Michael, Nice Muskox! Sorry you had a hard time with luggage. This has always scared me with taking a wildcat on a hunting trip. When I go on hunts my buddys and I always split our ammo up in each others bags so we will at least have some ammo.
While you were gone I got busy and build a 375 B&M modified. I used a 375 RUM reamer and chambered it short. My case is the same 2.250 long but I have the shoulder a little different than the B&M I think and shoulder angle is 30 degrees. Gun shoots great and even though the barrel I had was I little heavy it handles nicely. I cut it to twenty inches and I still amazed at how your short cartridge has so little recoil. What powders are you using in your 9.3 B&M? I have only loaded the 375 so far with RL15 and its working pretty good. I have not shot it over a chrono yet but powder charges are very close to 375 H&H.

Sam

Hey Congrats on the great hunt.
Glad your home safe.
I never fly anymore, my wife is a retired Air Trafic Controller and she scared it out of me !
I'll stick to ships and trains...

Damn that looked cold!!
John

Sam

I have never went on a trip anywhere that I did not split ammo, EXCEPT this one! I only took 40 rds and I almost split it and decided not to for some reason I can't even recall! I was slack about a lot of things on this trip, don't know, maybe just too much going on with other things? You can bet your ass I will never NOT split ammo again! Always! Also we are looking into the GPS units that are used on luggage and get some of those too! It is unreal, that they lost the same bag on the return trip!

Made a modified 375 B&M? Damn pirate I say! HEH

Cool! I think in that case you will do good with RL 15 for 375, as it is a top with the 9.3 and there won't be much difference in the two. I will send you the load data for the 9.3 via email in a few minutes. I think it will be interchangeable without issue. Keep us posted please, as John up in PA is working on the same, but waiting on dies from Hornady as I am too for several cartridges now. What rifle?????

Oh and FYI Accurate Innovations is soon going to put the Super Shorts on for making some nice wood stocks!!!! I know I am going to have a couple done at least!

I will send the data shortly for the 9.3


Phats

I hate flying these days, it's always an issue of sorts with someone! Either checking in, Customs here or there makes no difference. Firearms can be a hassle, ammo can be a hassle, all sorts of ignorant crap! Coming back the ticket agent asked if the ammo was in it's original box! Ok there is no original FACTORY boxes for 416 B&M of course. I said BETTER than the original, she states if not in the original box it won't be allowed! Ok, YES IT"S IN THE ORIGINAL BOX you ignorant C%$t! Ok, I didn't say the "C" word, But I damn sure thought it! Give me a break! I hate flying! That's one big reason I have slowed my hunting trips down to very few, no longer do I go on 4-5 hunting trips a year, just the flying is not worth the hassle!

It was nice and warm this time of year up there. I think it made it to 20 degrees F on that day!

Michael

Private yeah, You definately get the credit for designing the cartridge, and I appreciate it. It's hard to mess with a tool & dime maker when it comes to chambering a gun. Got the load data, thanks. Look forward to hearing all about your trip. You need to get back to shooting the threads have been boring lately.

Sam

Sam

Piece of cake Sam, and no worries! All is great. I want some sample cases of the 375 when you visit please! I think the load data from the 9.3 will work for you fine, IMR 4064 and IMR 4320, RL 15 all good in that case.

Lets see we have now starting at the top--500MDM--50 B&M--50 B&M SA--50 B&M AK-50 B&M Super Short--458 B&M--458 B&M SA--458 B&M Super Short--416 B&M--375 B&M--9.3 B&M, what did I miss?

I am going to shoot in the new 500 MDM tomorrow! Sort out the irons and check it out some.

I will probably be back on the test work next week for sure. It is piling up, and I have plenty to do. I will be chewing a good bit of the print you and Corbin brought a few weeks ago for sure!

I will be around if you get a chance in the next couple of weeks? This week busy just trying to catch up with things. I won't be leaving or going anywhere until the NRA in Charlotte, mid May. So pretty much open.

Any new progress with the little 50????

Michael

Michael,
Thanks for the data and yes I'll be glad to give you some cases. I think the 9.3 data will be a perfect starting point and keep me from doing a lot of work for nothing. Hey you still have to do a .470 even though you don't like that caliber. I'll try to slip away so and bring you powder and cases.

Sam

Only thing missing is the 500 B&M AK and the 400 B&M

Michael,
I hope I can break away in the next couple of weeks to come and see you. I'm getting really busy but have to take a little time off.
I made my dies for the 375 by cutting .600 off of factory 375 RUM RCBS dies and polishing out the base a little. They work great especially for $28.00. I did have to make form dies to take the neck down in steps. I had tons of .375 bullets so the project made since to do. As a former tool & die maker I really enjoy the machining. Always learning something new and don't mind experimenting.

Sam

Michael,
WHAT RIFLE? Model 70 what did you think? You know I'm a double and model 70 man.

Gees, I had forgot about the 475 B&M and 475 B&M Super Short! I suppose that is next in line. To go to work on.

Boomy
I tried to take the 348 case up to 500, but not very successful (yet). Not a big issue to take it up, but there is so much taper to the 348 case that I end up with an hour glass shaped case, I can't get the taper straightened just yet! What I did notice is that the case shrank back to 2.1 anyway?

400 B&M? Don't start!

Sam

You are far too talented! I can't wait to see the rifle and cartridge. John will not be able to do much until the OFFICIAL 375 B&M Hornady dies arrive. Keep us posted, any data you gather can be used by him easy. There won't be much difference if any between your version and his. Rifle---Well I was making sure that it was a Winchester, I figured, but just making sure! Congrats! Good Job! I will get details when you show up with it!!!

When you can take a break let me know, we will make a plan! I will work my schedule around yours! Might as well load up some 375 B&M bullets to test while we are at it too!

Michael

Michael,
Thanks for the compliment. I will gladly share my data as I work up loads. I'm sure the 9.3 data you sent will be right on for start up.
Years ago when I had a 50 Alaskan I made a expander for opening 348 brass to 50. It worked good but I later made a shell shrinker to go in a 12 gauge single shot and fire formed my brass in it with a pretty good load of pistol powder and toilet paper wad. I'll find that stuff for you and bring it down when I visit again. Doesn't Starline make 50 Alaskan brass which would make life simple?

Sam

Sam

Yes, please bring the expander you made for the 50 AK with you if you can! Boomy and I have been talking about the 348 brass which is longer than the brass for the 50 AK at 2.1 inches. I think the 348 is 2.24 or 2.25 in that area. The extra length might add a little velocity, but would certianly keep pressures low. Yes, Starline makes the 50 AK brass and it is excellent brass, I use it for the 50 B&M AK. Just size to .500 and load up, easy as that. But it seems the 348 when formed might shrink to 2.1 anyway? If so, the 500 B&M AK is moot, and a little more difficult to do I think.

If Capo is out there somewhere might get him to run some Quickload data to compare 2.24 to 2.1. Honestly while it is a good idea Boomy, I am beginning to wonder if it is really worth the effort? Might gain 100 fps but quite sure it would be hard to obtain 200 or more fps.

Michael

Michael,
If you want I can put that stuff in the mail so you will have it soon. I'll try to remember and send it tomorrow.

Sam

Sam

No, don't mail. Just bring it with you. No hurry on it, I have plenty to do in addition to that, so I can use the excuse anyway!

Thanks for the offer however!

Make a plan to come visit now!

Heard from Corbin lately? I have not.

Michael

Michael,
OK maybe one afternoon next week if that will work for you.
Talked with Corbin a couple days ago. He's busy but going to Sanford for Vintagers shoot this weekend.

Sam

I would like to introduce you guys to my two new little friends I received last week!


A new 500 MDM and the new gun #1 in 458 B&M Super Short.

First I will give you a little report on the 500 MDM. Shot it today, shoots great, feed and function 100%


As for established loads it compares almost exactly with the other two guns. 550 gr Solids 87/H-322 at 2216 fps, 515 gr Solids 91/H-322 at 2310 fps, 470 gr SSK HPs 95/H-322 at 2457 fps. More than enough to do anything I want to do.

Size wise this one is 1/2 lb heavier than the other two guns coming in at 8.75 lbs, the 1/2 attributed to the English Walnut. The Myrtle gun comes in a 8.25 lbs and the Claro Walnut at 8 lbs even. I use 1.5X5 Leupolds mostly on these guns and the Claro gun comes in 1.75 lbs lighter than my standard Win M70 in 458 Lott, and of course they are 3 inches shorter with the 21 inch barrels, the Lott having a 24 inch barrel.

Compared to the 50 B&M the 500 MDMs are big guns! But in comparison to any other rifle in it's class it is a small package.


I only ran 25 rds through it today. Much more will be done with it.

FYI-Not in the gun business at all, don't want to be. But I am working on two more 500 MDM rifles, these will be for anyone that might want one, I will have on hand. Any of you guys are welcome to them for exactly what they cost me, I will send invoices with them. One is bright blue, the other is Armor Coated matte finish. I expect them to be done in a few weeks, one is waiting on a stock I have here to send up to Brian at SSK.

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Michael,
OK maybe one afternoon next week if that will work for you.
Talked with Corbin a couple days ago. He's busy but going to Sanford for Vintagers shoot this weekend.

Sam

Sam

Next week looks good as far as I know. We will make a plan!
Michael

Michael:

Do I understand this correctly? The claro walnut gun is eight pounds and you are shooting 550 grain bullets out of it at over 2200 fps without a break? Is that correct?

Dave

Yes, the Claro gun is 8 lbs, Accurate Innovations stock with the Aluminum Chassis that absorbs recoil over a large area. No issues, no breaks, and that gun has about 300-350 rounds through it so far. Further up on this page see the stocks and you can see why there has been no issues or problems. I busted the hell out of the factory stocks, one in 18 rounds and the other in 4 rounds. Now the Myrtle gun has well over 500-600 rounds, Claro gun has 300-350 rounds, and of course the English only 25 rds today. Also of course not all of those are 550s at 2200 fps. I shoot a great variety of bullets in .500, so many of them are from 426-550 in these guns. But running 470s at 2450 fps and 510s at 2300 fps is nothing to sneeze at neither.

Michael

I don't doubt the guns ability to withstand the punishment. My question was more directed an the punishment inflicted on the shooter. It is an interesting endeavor but I am confused where you are going with this? Why would you want a fifty caliber gun shooting 470 grain bullets at 2450 fps + that weighs the same as the average 30-06?

Michael,
I see what day works best for me and let you know so we can make the plan.

Thanks,
Sam

quote:

a fifty caliber gun shooting 550 grain bullets at 2200 fps + that weighs the same as the average 30-06?

... ain't no thang!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
I don't doubt the guns ability to withstand the punishment. My question was more directed an the punishment inflicted on the shooter. It is an interesting endeavor but I am confused where you are going with this? Why would you want a fifty caliber gun shooting 470 grain bullets at 2450 fps + that weighs the same as the average 30-06?

Dave

Huh? Why my man it makes an excellent buffalo rifle of course!

See;

http://forums.accuratereloadin...3981035711&f=4711043

The entire premise for the B&M Series of rifles/cartridges, and now the 500 MDM is to have a rifle/cartridge/bullet combination that hammers the big stuff, without being burdened by a 10-12 lb, LONG, gun! Recoil is actually quite manageable and in the field you don't even notice it anyway. Honestly it's not punishing at all, I don't think anymore than a 458 Lott. Damn sight easier to carry all day too. Of course the 500 MDM is still a big gun, and if I had to carry for several days all day long I would prefer my 50 B&M. With the 1.5X5 Leupold it comes in at 8.25 lbs with the turkish stock, a lot shorter with it's WSM action, and 18 inch barrel, and can still shoot .500 caliber 510 gr solids at 2130 fps. Now it's a pleasure to carry during the day.

I plain got tired of toting around a gun that is 46 inches long and weighs 10-12 lbs day in day out. They are not handy, fast, nor easy to deal with, so all those fine guns are retired for the duration, never to go to the field again.

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

Recoil is actually quite manageable

Oh really?

Michael, you can't kid a kidder. I have a .500 Jeffery and a .470 NE. I've shot a .505 Gibbs and a .500 NE plenty. I know what the recoil of these guns is like in a guns in the 10-12 pound range. Now, I understand that felt recoil is a subjective thing and maybe the recoil of an unbraked eight pound 50 caliber rifle pushing a 470 grain bullet at better than 2400 fps is manageable for you but I would seriously bet it wound not be manageable for 99.9% of the rest of the shooting world. Like I said, this is a really interesting excercise and I admire your acumen in putting together this experiment but if someone wanted to carry a lighter gun, don't you think it would make more sense to drop down a bit in caliber?

Dave

Well OK, but I ain't kidding! I think it might be the amount of shooting that goes on here, I don't know, but I do a lot of test work on different things, and while I am in no way "recoil tolerant" I suppose if one shoots on average 150-200 rounds a week of such things you begin to pay less attention to it?

And by the way, it's not an exercise and not an experiment, I take them to the field and use them. The experiments ended about 4 yrs ago with the first 50 B&M in the field for the first time.

Why make a sacrifice to small calibers just to loose weight? Loose the weight, keep the caliber. Now there is a point for sure. If you look through this you will see some very small and light 458 B&Ms, some with the Ultimate stocks and coming in at 6.5 lbs with the 18 inch barrels. These guns are still capable of shooting 500 gr bullets at 2150 fps and 450s at 2200+ fps. Now those get a little hateful to shoot and the bolt handle knob knocks the bark off my trigger finger every single time! Now that gets to be a little aggravating for sure! So when doing that I just go ahead and wrap that finger with duct tape and forget about it! But in all reality I consider those guns to be my Alaska guns and I am far more likely to be shooting 350-400 gr bullets for that sort of work anyway and with those it's not an issue at all.

The light 416 B&Ms are no issue even with 350s at 2450 fps.

Rifle and stock design control recoil. I have a 510 Wells on a Ruger 77 it weighs 12 lbs and it is a hateful thing to shoot! I have Ruger #1s in larger bores and they are all hateful to shoot. I shoot nothing but Winchester M70s these days, and there is a difference. I would much prefer to jump on the Winchester M70 in 500 MDM and 470s at 2400 or 550s at 2200, than to drag that big ass Ruger thing out and shoot 535s at 2200 fps! The Winchester is much easier to shoot to me, and it's 4 lbs less and about a foot shorter!

Actually in the 500 MDM I feel more recoil with the 550s at 2200 than the 470s at 2400 fps. You should see how those 470s knock buffalo around. I will be taking one of the 500 MDMs next year for buffalo and elephant. And again I do want to emphasize that this is not an exercise and it's not an experiment, these rifles work for a living. Not closet queens either, they get shot a lot.

If you ever get over to SC drop by, I will show you.

Michael