RIP

Well the Winchester WSM action was made for the B&Ms! Perfect platform for the series. Cannot be improved upon. I have a couple of standard Rugers laying around in 338 Winchester. The B&Ms do fit in these actions. I don't ever recall stuffing 3 down to see how they fit. But can't see a reason why that would not work fine. Not sure what Con has done or which action.

Brian should be close soon I would think. Drop him a note and see. I have not been putting him on too many extra missions of late, reamers for 410 B&M and the 475s, a bullet order, but not too much, oh, I forgot the two new 50 B&Ms and the 458 B&Ms to fit those stocks I have. But that is back burner stuff, yours was long before that and should be very close to ready I would think.

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:

The 470 B&M doing 500 @ 2150 in a 6.5 lb gun will be so sweet.

500 grain bullet. 2150 fps. 6.5 pound gun.

I think you guys are crazy!

Doc M,
OK I will send Brian an email, since I have your permission, ho ho.

Dave,
I am hoping for a 500 gr .458 bullet at 2150 fps,
or even better,
450-grain North Fork FP, CP, and SP bullets at +2250 fps in a 20" barrel,
from a 6.0 pound .458 B&M.
That is what it will take to thoroughly trounce Will's .416 Taylor Elephant wand. HO HO.

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
RIP

Well the Winchester WSM action was made for the B&Ms! Perfect platform for the series. Cannot be improved upon. I have a couple of standard Rugers laying around in 338 Winchester. The B&Ms do fit in these actions. I don't ever recall stuffing 3 down to see how they fit. But can't see a reason why that would not work fine. Not sure what Con has done or which action.

Brian should be close soon I would think. Drop him a note and see. I have not been putting him on too many extra missions of late, reamers for 410 B&M and the 475s, a bullet order, but not too much, oh, I forgot the two new 50 B&Ms and the 458 B&Ms to fit those stocks I have. But that is back burner stuff, yours was long before that and should be very close to ready I would think.

Michael

you have a ruger in 338? why, MM, i won't even make you pay shipping to me ... its right next to the OTHER R .. i won't say it, this time...

the 340 AR is going to clean up the winmag chamber, and be DESIGNED to shoot the TSX/TTSX at full speed, without spiking pressure!

PSA -- if you find MM laying on the floor and thrashing, please remove his wwallet .. send the contents to porter, and let him bite down on the leather.. have a nice young lady whisper "winchester" into his ears till he calms down!

if he over reacts to the nice young lady, have her scream

PUSHFEED at the top of her lungs! its like a taser!

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Doc M,
OK I will send Brian an email, since I have your permission, ho ho.

Dave,
I am hoping for a 500 gr .458 bullet at 2150 fps,
or even better,
450-grain North Fork FP, CP, and SP bullets at +2250 fps in a 20" barrel,
from a 6.0 pound .458 B&M.
That is what it will take to thoroughly trounce Will's .416 Taylor Elephant wand. HO HO.

Doc RIP

DOn't need my permission! Sorry, just making a suggestion, as that's exactly what I would do myself! With 20 inches you can exceed 2150 with 500s and I have run 450s at 2275 in 20 inches with 78/AA 2520.

Easy.



Jeffe

Had that Ruger 338 with the boat paddle stock for over 20 yrs I bet! Even has a good trigger put in it. Have not even shot the thing in probably 15 yrs or more.

340 AR? I am missing something here, but sounds like an excellent move for the AR's. Of course there is 358 and 9.3 too!



M

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
I was going to use a Ruger MK II in 300 WSM but found the magazine shorter than on the M70 Winchester 300 WSM.

RIP,
Absolutely true ... with minor modification my Ruger magazine is at 2.95". Mine has been build however to be almost exclusively used with 400gr Woodleigh PP or a 300gr TSX on big brown deer.

I'd love to build another on a Winchester M70 ... just to compare. Love to do a 50 B&M but got the bad news yesterday that I cant source a 0.500" barrel from my preferred local supplier ... need to look into a few other locals.

Hopefully my stock will be relieved at the tang by later tonight and the rifle ready for firing tomorrow.
Cheers...
Con

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
PSA -- if you find MM laying on the floor and thrashing, please remove his wwallet .. send the contents to porter, and let him bite down on the leather.. have a nice young lady whisper "winchester" into his ears till he calms down!

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
if he over reacts to the nice young lady, have her scream

PUSHFEED at the top of her lungs! its like a taser!

Michael and Co.
Well, good news and bad news with a Ruger conversion. The good news is that the Woodleigh 400gr PP at the cannelure fits the magazine at just under 2.9" COL. Magazine capacity is still 3+1 but it wont feed as such. First one coming from the right side of the box isn't sitting properly and on striking the feed ramp is being cocked up and striking at about the 10 oclock position rather than slip in the chamber. It'll go visit the feeding guru in Melbourne. As a 2+1 its slick as goose snot fast and slow. Always knew there'd be a hiccup somewhere. I'll hunt with it as a 2+1 for now.

Synthetic stock has now been relieved, fireforming duties tomorrow. As a 22" barrel with Ruger profile and 0.625"-0.650" at the muzzle ... its wonderfully portable ... I cant see a need to go to 20" ... yet.
Cheers...
Con

Con,
I am with you on the length of barrel.
I asked Brian to make mine no less than 20", no more than 23".
My barrel is going to be around .700" at the muzzle, and I thought that was light!

quote:

First one coming from the right side of the box isn't sitting properly and on striking the feed ramp is being cocked up and striking at about the 10 oclock position rather than slip in the chamber. It'll go visit the feeding guru in Melbourne. As a 2+1 its slick as goose snot fast and slow.

Con...can you have the feeding guru in Melbourne track the mods done to correct the first cartridge feeding? It likely would be of great interest to many on the forum.

Thanks,

RIP,
I can understand your point of view ... the original 350RemMags where maligned for being too light and too barky from their short tubes. I flinch much more convincingly from muzzle blast than recoil, so too short a barrel can be a distinct negative for me. Given the nature of the terrain we hunt, which is steep, too light a rifle can also be a negative trying to hold steady.

capoweed,
Will do! I have holidays in a fortnight and will call him to book an appointment. I'm not letting this rifle go during the peak of our hunting season unless he can get it back fast. So will ask to go down and have him work on it the same day. I'll also have the conversation about perhaps opening the action at rear to extend my COL.

I also just love the way it never so much as rains as pours. Stumbled across a reasonably priced second-hand M70 300WSM yeterday. A Featherweight ... I wonder if I can hog the barrel channel out for a lightweight 45cal or 50 cal (need to source one locally though first ... making some calls next week) tube. I can very much see what Micheal was trying to create in the concept of the B&Ms ... I just worry whether you can build them too light and too short, but I think that's a personal choice every adopter of a B&M will need to make.

Just a final comment. Geez Hornady make some wonderful dies. They're set up to full-length size accordingly about dead-on to maybe 1/8 turn off the shellholder. In forming my cases, I get a 'crush fit' (for fireforming) at about 1/4 turn off the shellholder ... this is how I had the local builder headspace the rifle as I didn't have the headspace guages. The dies are precise and oh so smooth!

Just a final one for the 50 B&M shooters ... once you cut your brass to approximate length ... how do you trim it to final length given the case walls are well over 50cal in width and most cutters are about 0.495" (Forster Original)? Is there any narrowing if put through the FL die? Or must a 50cal capable trimmer be purchased. Lucky I've got one coming hey?
Cheers...
Con

RIP and Con

Barrel length? Yes, a little personal there, along with contour. I have found exactly what works with me with the 18 inch barrels and the .785 barrel. Feels just right, to me. Maybe not for everyone. And while we don't loose much performance down to 18, performance is incredible with lighter bullets with the longer barrels. I have a 24 inch 1885, and with 450s velocity with the same loads is over 2300 fps and with 500s some loads at 2200+ fps in the 24 inch gun. It also is exactly the same overall length as a 20 inch bolt gun. While that is good performance in the case, I am more than willing to take less (but not by much) and have the portability of the 18 inch guns.

The cartridges were designed for 18-20 inches. But longer don't hurt performance.

The featherweight stock will not accommodate my barrel contour. Smaller barrel contour, maybe? We looked at some 50 super shorts in the featherweight guns, but not enough stock for the barrels I like.

The Hornady dies are fantastic. I had started with all RCBS, and while not extremely expensive at $285 a set, I don't think they are any better at all than the Hornady dies at half that price or a bit less than. Hornady now gets all the B&M series dies and I have almost all in stock. Waiting on an order now!

Con, I use the RCBS trimmer for all my brass, and the cutter is just enough to get all the 50s trimmed. I can't say for any other cutters as I have never used them, but even the RCBS is close, but works fine.

I see you are getting prepared for a 50 B&M! HEH!

There is a 50 and 416 in Australia now. The boys have been shooting them. They both built laminated guns, the 50 is 18 inches and the one guy wanted a 22 inch 416 B&M.

Michael

Michael, I trust you received the rifles back in one piece. . . . ?

Great fun to shoot, and came away with a whole new view of what I like in a big bore rifle.

Doc M,
It worked. Brian replied that the rifle is done except for getting my in-the-white sights matte blacked as I requested.
I trust that he will not blacken the brass bead nor the ivory pop-up moon bead.

Dennis

Doug emailed me yesterday he had the rifles, however he has not stopped by with them yet. I suspect he will drop by today or tomorrow with them. Glad you enjoyed, now you know what I have been talking about for a year or so here.

Doc RIP

Good, it should not be long now you will be shooting! Ahhh, what's a little black on the beads between friends? Don't worry about it.

M

Dennis
Received both rifles from Doug this afternoon, mint condition, I think probably better than when I sent them to you? Must have rubbed on them enough to shine them a bit I suppose! Only problem is that you sent ammo back with them? You guys get scared of shooting them? Sent nearly a whole box of 50 Super Shorts back?

Michael

Good deal. Glad you have them back in your hands safely. Ya, did a little bore scrubbing for sure.
Daddy always told me, 'If yur gunna make um dirty, make un clean'!
Ya, had some ammo left over. We all shot all we wanted enough to get an idea of just what they are about, and what they will do. Figured it would be rather rude to smoke um all up anyway.
Beside's, ol' Capoward kept mumbling something about needin' 'more power' for squirrels n' small vermin'. . . . . Somethin about a .500 MDM or somethin like that. . . . yuk yuk. . . .

Again Michael, I want to thank you for the grand opertunity to shoot the little guns. You are a true "southern gentleman", in the highest regard.
Not many folk will send someone they've never even met a couple of expensive rifle's, clear across the US. and several box's of handloaded ammo to shoot up. . . . . . Hell, come to think of it Michael, you may be about half nut's!

Very much a pleasure!

Michael,
Dennis had kept quite a few 50 B&M Super Short from the initial ammo shipment for me to shot…fun little cartridge. But I was truly piggish shooting the 416 B&M, and as Dennis pointed out…rude as well…as I don’t recollect any of them not being shot. Again thank you very much for the opportunity to shoot both rifles; I echo Dennis’ comment, “You are truly a Southern Gentleman.”

Dennis,
You are quite the gentleman as well, sharing unlimited shooting with your two 45 ACP handguns and your newly pruned M77 375 Ruger. Thank you for taking me out for the day of shooting, it was truly enjoyable. See you in August.

Jim and Dennis

Shooters are in general some of the best people on the planet. There are exceptions in every group of course, but for the most part shooters are great folks. I don't have any friends and I don't associate on a regular basis with people that are not linked to shooting in some way. I have very little in common with people outside of shooting, and not much to do with them.

It pleases me that both you guys like the rifles and I get a kick out of sharing that with other shooters. Not to mention that I am pretty proud of the little B&M family of rifles, and it's very difficult for anyone to really comprehend what they are about until hands are laid upon them.

As far as being nuts, oh yes, absolutely "certifiable".

Michael

Some news on the B&M front. Talked to Brian Friday, we decided for the 410 B&M to go with a .411 barrel, 1:14 twist rate easy to get, no special orders, and will be standard. Will be fine with .410 bullets, no issues. Capo gave us a brief on barrels available, he was correct as I recall. So Chopper, if you want to do different on the barrel, better call Brian this week.

Good news on the 475 B&M and the Super Short version, PacNor barrels, 1:10 twist rates will be standard issue!

B&M rifles will be at the West Coast Hoot and Shoot--two 458 B&Ms, 50 B&M, 50 B&M Super Short!

Michael

Hi Michael,

Yes indeed, thank you very much for the opportunity to shoot these little boomers. It was quite the experience. Very nice rifles!

Thanks again...

Ron

Hey Ron

You are very welcome, I am pleased you guys enjoyed them. You and the Big D need to get a couple!

Michael

Ok I’ve now officially found the second B&M that I really really like…

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:



Pleased with my new stock, it's a nice Turkish that Jeff at AI picked out, did some nice checkering on it, so this will be it's new home from now on.

Michael

No changes needed on this puppy…well except for slightly longer pull length for warm/hot weather work.

Sure glad I’ve not shot the 416 9.3 B&M! Having the 50 B&M Long and 416 B&M tugging at the brain is enough for any one person…well except for Michael.

Jim

I see a photo of you shooting this one over on H&S? Or was that the 458? No photos of Boomy shooting a B&M?

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Jim

I see a photo of you shooting this one over on H&S? Or was that the 458? No photos of Boomy shooting a B&M?

Michael

Corrected...corrected. Yes that is a photo of me shooting this rifle, the 50 Long, not the AI stocked 458. Lotsa photos of everyone shooting the B&Ms - Blacktailer had his camera on everyone from multiple angles. The 50 SS was a hit by all - DagoRed really liked it - I think Boomy was shooting at the 200yd gong with the SS and actually hit it a few times using the iron sights.

Jim
The little 50 is always a hit, nothing like it really, until we get the 458 and 475 B&M SS. That front sight is so big it must be a big gong! Front sight covers a huge area, mostly for real close work.

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Jim
The little 50 is always a hit, nothing like it really, until we get the 458 and 475 B&M SS. That front sight is so big it must be a big gong! Front sight covers a huge area, mostly for real close work.

Michael

Yes the gong was an 18" metal disc so it was big. Also I corrected my post above, rifle was the AI stocked 50 B&M Long. I found out late in the day when we starting shooting the iron sighted rifles at the gong that the 50 L front sight covered the gong and when sighted that way would hit the gong every time. Lotta fun.

It'll be interesting to see which will be the most versatile…the 50 SS, the 458 SS, or the 475 SS. I think in the long run the 475 SS will give the best balance between the three…not quite the punch of the 50 nor the range of the 458…but if limited to a single caliber likely the best balance of the three…

Jim

The Super Shorts! I did not even have a 50 Super Short in hand before already having drawn up and planned the 458 and 475 Super Short. As we know I became very aggravated with 470 caliber because of the Capsticks, so anything 470 got put on the back burner, and only now even getting around to making reamers for them. Once I got the 50 Super Short, I also put the 458 on the back side. But this was early on, and I did not realize how efficient these cartridges were going to be. I had the 50 and figured how could one improve on that? I actually was getting bored and decided to do the 458 Super Short. Now that I have it I am extremely anxious to get started on the load data for it. I suspect it is going to be a hammer of a little gun, and taking into account all the new bullets that are just tailor made for it that have become available recently. It's a 400 gr or less cartridge, not a big bullet 458.

The 475s I have resigned myself that bullets will have to be designed. Maybe the Turnbull bullets will do, but I for sure would like to have some really good solids in the 450 gr range for the 2.25 B&M case, and maybe some lighter solids for the Super Short. You know how I am about a good solid! The 475s have potential, but I think the 458 and the 50 are top dogs in the Super Short case until proper 470 bullets are in hand.

Michael

Maybe we can get some of the Hoot and Shoot guys over here to comment on the Super Short

M

Yes the H&S guys have been extremely quiet regarding the four rifles you arranged for them to shoot. I guess that includes me as well. Guess I'd better get to work!

Jim

Maybe they are just too shocked to speak about it, a loss for words? HEH. I talked to Boomy this afternoon, he is putting together something special I think, soon as his shoulder heals some. HEH. I don't mean to say you boys are sissies or anything, but I shoot that much every week. I do cheat a little however and use one of those sissy pads.

M

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Jim

Maybe they are just too shocked to speak about it, a loss for words? HEH. I talked to Boomy this afternoon, he is putting together something special I think, soon as his shoulder heals some. HEH. I don't mean to say you boys are sissies or anything, but I shoot that much every week. I do cheat a little however and use one of those sissy pads.

M

A bunch of sissies??? Well out of our group I’m pretty sure that Grenadier likely shoots his H&H Paradox double as much or perhaps more than you on a weekly basis but then he also shoots it in shotgun competition.

Me I know I’m wuss and after seeing my picture it apparent that I’m an out of shape overweight wuss.

And after shooting quite a few rounds through your 50 SS and 416 B&M as well as Dennis’ newly shortened 375 Ruger last month without additional padding I fully realized this time around I’d save the shoulder and use my leather Pachmayer slip-on pad (for the little extra trigger pull length that it provides) AND my Evoshield shoulder pad for the shoulder protection that it provides.

So…no next day sore shoulder for me this time around!!!

Jim

HEH!! I think Boomy is crying the "Blue Shoulder Blues".

I am sure he will recover however and probably be shooting again this weekend. I sent some lighter loads with most everything, I know I sent some of those 500 gr Hornadys at only 1900 fps or so for the 50 B&M. Those are the ones rounded off in the die Sam made for me. Excellent bullet too. Sent a few 510s at 2130 fps or so too. But the 50 I sent weighs in at 7.5 or 8 lbs in that turkish stock, so it's heavy. Of course the 50 SS is just plain fun, no recoil there. 458s are easy shooters.

M

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Jim

HEH!! I think Boomy is crying the "Blue Shoulder Blues".

I am sure he will recover however and probably be shooting again this weekend. I sent some lighter loads with most everything, I know I sent some of those 500 gr Hornadys at only 1900 fps or so for the 50 B&M. Those are the ones rounded off in the die Sam made for me. Excellent bullet too. Sent a few 510s at 2130 fps or so too. But the 50 I sent weighs in at 7.5 or 8 lbs in that turkish stock, so it's heavy. Of course the 50 SS is just plain fun, no recoil there. 458s are easy shooters.

M

Boomy was rubbing the shoulder pretty good at the end of shooting.

I was definitely the shoulder blues the next day in Oregon. But not this time! Lesson well learned!

Yeah the AI stocked 50 B&M Long was heavier than the Ultimate stocked 458 but I think from your earlier weightings only about 1.5# so not a lot. Scoped and slinged the little 50 Long would be around 8.75# to 9# ready to hunt so would be downright cuddly to shoot.

The 500gr Hornadys were loaded at 1908fps and was definitely fun round to shoot. This would be a great practice round for first timers and it worked well on the 200yd gong also.

Lol after shooting about a combined 80 rounds of 12 paradox, 450 NE and all the B&M rounds in rigs 2 or 3 lbs lighter than nominal my shoulder was a tad sore. I was wondering how bad my shoulder would be. I got a 2" bruise and was sore for two days but am healing pretty good. Maybe pop off the rest of the ammo for my indepth review this weekend. I love big boomers but after 50 rounds in light rifles it gets a bit much. For hunting purposes when only two or three rounds are needed, no sweat! The 6.5 Lb rifle shooting 480's at 2150 was the quickest in felt recoil velocity but not hard to shoot if only a few rounds were needed. Was such a thrill to handle snd shoot these!!! Thanks again Michael

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Lol after shooting about a combined 80 rounds of 12 paradox, 450 NE and all the B&M rounds in rigs 2 or 3 lbs lighter than nominal my shoulder was a tad sore. I was wondering how bad my shoulder would be. I got a 2" bruise and was sore for two days but am healing pretty good. Maybe pop off the rest of the ammo for my indepth review this weekend. I love big boomers but after 50 rounds in light rifles it gets a bit much. For hunting purposes when only two or three rounds are needed, no sweat! The 6.5 Lb rifle shooting 480's at 2150 was the quickest in felt recoil velocity but not hard to shoot if only a few rounds were needed. Was such a thrill to handle snd shoot these!!! Thanks again Michael

When you're done with that Colin's probably gonna need someone to fire a full pop load from his newest rifle. We might even collect the bus fare to get you there ...