Thought I’d throw a few more photographs from the shoot…


Here’s Dennis with his now “17-inch barrel” M77 375 Ruger with Ruger synthetic stock.


Ron shooting the 50 B&M SS…using Dennis’ Jeep spare as a rest.

I agree with Ron, the 416 B&M is a very interesting cartridge…it’s very easy to see why the 416 is the most popular Heavy Medium caliber.

As a M98 Mauser guy…I can foresee an intermediate length M98 Mauser with a 19” barrel…with a small variable scope and synthetic stock…should come in at about 7lbs ready to hunt!!!

I love 98 Mausers. Here's one of my favorite rifles. 7x57 1908/34 Brno 20" Carbine with a Maple stock. It weighs just under 7lbs.



Ron

That's a sweet looking rifle Ron.

NEWS FLASH NEWS FLASH



OK just got off the phone with Brian, extensive conversation concerning .410 .411 .408 and god knows what else! Issue is solved, no more issues, no discussion needed.

Official now 410 B&M. It will be a .410 bore. Shooting .411s are just dandy and no issue at all. So .410 is the bore size. Will do our best for 1:12 twist rate. Baring 1:12--we can go with 1:14 at worst. So maybe, we think we can get 1:12, that is the goal. 1:14 worst case scenario. Now for those special elephant bullets needed if ever, and we are at 1:14, then I will get us some 350-370 gr bullets done, with a proper minimum meplat of 65% or better, and this will be good to go happy!

Next 457 B&M and 475 B&M Super Short---.474 caliber barrels and 1:12 twist rate (Hopefully)

Reamers will be in the works, Brian and Dave working details out on the reamers. I ordered a reamer only 3 weeks ago, and I will have it on Tuesday, so turn around on reamer is going to be quicker than I thought! Give it a month say, and we will have 3 new B&M reamers and the beginning of 3 new B&M cartridges!

Michael

quote:

Next 457 475 B&M and 475 B&M Super Short---.474 caliber barrels and 1:12 twist rate (Hopefully)

Michael,

I don't know if you'll find the 1:12" twist rate barrel in .475 caliber...but Pac-Nor sells a 1:10" twist rate six-groove barrel in .475 caliber so you can go with the Super Match Grade in SS or CM. So...sounds like it'll be a 1:10" twist rate for the 475 B&M and 475 B&M SS!

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

Next 457 475 B&M and 475 B&M Super Short---.474 caliber barrels and 1:12 twist rate (Hopefully)

Michael,

I don't know if you'll find the 1:12" twist rate barrel in .475 caliber...but Pac-Nor sells a 1:10" twist rate six-groove barrel in .475 caliber so you can go with the Super Match Grade in SS or CM. So...sounds like it'll be a 1:10" twist rate for the 475 B&M and 475 B&M SS!

Jim

1:10 works for me! We will go 1:10 for sure in the 475. Brian is checking what we can do in .410. He thinks 1:12, but for sure 1:14.

Excellent!

Moving forward!

Well for your future B&Ms I suppose we will have to have AI add an inch eh?

M

quote:

Well for your future B&Ms I suppose we will have to have AI add an inch eh?

B&M's...MDM's will definately have an extra inch! At both ends!! Gotta have balance!

Jim

Good research on the Pac Nor. I sent word to Brian this morning we want the 1:10 Pac Nor.
Thanks.

HEH, Wife still don't know inches to well , to my advantage of course!

Speaking of inches, I just can't see why I need 21 inch barrels on the 500 MDM, I think 20 would do just dandy, it's only 95-100 grs of powder so it should burn in 20

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Speaking of inches, I just can't see why I need 21 inch barrels on the 500 MDM, I think 20 would do just dandy, it's only 95-100 grs of powder so it should burn in 20

Michael

Not sure what velocity you're looking for but you can exceed 2300fps from a 20" barrel with the 510gr FN using both H322 and H335 with 100% powder burn (case fill rates are 98% and 93% respectively) with under 63K psi for both.

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Speaking of inches, I just can't see why I need 21 inch barrels on the 500 MDM, I think 20 would do just dandy, it's only 95-100 grs of powder so it should burn in 20

Michael

Not sure what velocity you're looking for but you can exceed 2300fps from a 20" barrel with the 510gr FN using both H322 and H335 with 100% powder burn (case fill rates are 98% and 93% respectively) with under 63K psi for both.

Jim

Well you see, that's what I am talking about! No, I don't need 2300 with that bullet at all. In fact I downloaded it to 2200 fps for Australia, and never recovered the first bullet at 2200 fps! Also, that would zip thru elephants like going thru half warm butter even just at 2200 fps. Put the 550 in at 2100-2150 fps and same story! Either way, 20 inches is plenty. Now I have 5 damn guns with 21 inch barrels!

Gees!
Michael

quote:

Now I have 5 damn guns with 21 inch barrels!

Maybe you need to sell those and start over with 20" barreled rifles!

Naw...just send them back a couple at a time and have Brian shorten the barrels and refit the front sights.

Jim

I am supposed to sell, or let someone have the last 2 500s for what I have in them, but I can't help but try and find an excuse that I really do need to keep those guns too? I am working on that excuse for the last few days!

M

OK, a little advice from my pals! I am liking the hell out of these two 500 MDMs! Everything seems to be just about perfect with them! I like the stocks. My thoughts were to build these guns, have them on hand just in case down the line someone decided they needed a 500 MDM, I would have a couple of them ready to go, for exactly what it cost me, no more. Dies everything else on hand, or will be soon I hope if Hornady gets the new dies completed!

So I am thinking maybe I should keep them and to hell with anyone that wants one! If maybe I kept just one of them, which one, the blue gun, or the matte finish gun kote gun? Or maybe I should just keep both of them and plan on using one on buffalo next year, and then take the other one to Australia and use on buffalo??? What you reckon I oughta do with these things?

I got a birthday coming up, does it count if you give yourself something I wonder?

Being 2.25" case length it would be sweet to do maybe a single stack on a m98. I know Winchesters are the platform it us designed for but it would be another good action for this.

Obviously your birthday present needs to be both rifles!

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Being 2.25" case length it would be sweet to do maybe a single stack on a m98. I know Winchesters are the platform it us designed for but it would be another good action for this.

Boomy
Maybe I am lost, but those are the full length 2.8 inch 500 MDMs. But yes, I have been told this would work in the single stack very well. Mike at (Jim Mike from Who?) suggested a single stack for these.

Oh and Boomy, Jim is going heavy with the 50 MDM in a mauser action, which he can fill us in on that right here on this thread, as I consider it a part of the family too!

Jim

I am thinking both rifles myself, as I can't make up my mind on just one.
M

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Being 2.25" case length it would be sweet to do maybe a single stack on a m98. I know Winchesters are the platform it us designed for but it would be another good action for this.

Boomy
Maybe I am lost, but those are the full length 2.8 inch 500 MDMs. But yes, I have been told this would work in the single stack very well. Mike at (Jim Mike from Who?) suggested a single stack for these.

Oh and Boomy, Jim is going heavy with the 50 MDM in a mauser action, which he can fill us in on that right here on this thread, as I consider it a part of the family too!

Jim

I am thinking both rifles myself, as I can't make up my mind on just one.
M

Michael you’re thinking to hard about those two rifles!! Just keep ‘em both!

Boomy,
Mike Cuypers from Bijou Creek Gunsmithing suggested going to a double stack center feed modification of a standard belted M70 for use with the 500 MDM (RUM based cartridge @ 2.8” case length)…which requires making a new magazine box, follower and spring, then working the rails so the cartridge with retain and feed 100% reliably. This would be a bit more expensive than when the factory accomplishes the work, which Winchester did when it produced the M70 in 300 RUM, but it is the correct way to accomplish the work.

If the 2.25” case you were discussing is the 475 B&M…then the perfect M98 Mauser would be an intermediate length action. It will require the construction of a new double stack magazine box so that three cartridges can properly stack in the Mauser configuration. The original magazine can be modified as a single stack box and likely two cartridges would fit but I personally would have the new double stack box built. I don’t think Sound Metal Products currently manufactures an appropriately sized bottom metal for the M98 Intermediate Length Mauser, not sure if Sonny Hill Industries does or not, but any competent Mauser gunsmith can accomplish the work.

50 MDM:
The 50 MDM uses Hornady’s 375 Ruger Basic Brass and powder capacity wise fits nicely between the 50 B&M and the 500 MDM…both of which are RUM based cartridges.

My 50 MDM is being built on a M98 Mauser action, I likely will use a FN’ Columbian military action though I still haven’t decided whether to use a FN commercial or a DWM 1909 Argentine action instead…as it seems to be my choice which is causing the indecision.

I’ve already purchased a Sound Metal Products 5MX bottom metal designed for the M98 Mauser; it is a five down double stack designed and cut for the 375/416 Ruger cartridge. There’s plenty of metal on the magazine sides that can be machined away to accommodate the 50 MDM cartridge dimensions; once machined the magazine will hold five 50 MDM cartridges in a proper Mauser’ cartridge stack.

For the initial build I will be using a synthetic stock…most likely the B&C Medalist stock…so I’ll either need to do some glass work around the bottom metal or perhaps just purchase a new standard depth SMP’ 5M bottom metal.

I already have the reamers, gauges, and CNC Specialty Products (Blackburn) trigger with other parts on order…I have a target date of late September for delivery of everything to Steve Button to make it work.

Hope the 50 MDM is part of the family... …as there'll like be another one or two cartridges in the hamper once this is finished!

Heh Jim, when you git that little 50 MDM thing all dun, you gotta git back up here and let me shoot that sucker! We'll go huntin bears n' stuff. . . . . .

Heh, crawled thru the berry bushes on my belly with my chopped off .375, and man was it a joy. No more gittin hung up on branches and blow down. Sure glad it didn't have a nice wooden stock to screw up to. Just hose the mud off when I got home, and was good to go again the next day. Course; it's a pure D huntin iron, and no beauty queen. Hell, I'd put it up against any other shootin iron here. . .

Cheers!

quote:

Originally posted by DWright:
Heh Jim, when you git that little 50 MDM thing all dun, you gotta git back up here and let me shoot that sucker! We'll go huntin bears n' stuff. . . . . .

I absolutely will do that Dennis. Speaking of huntin bears...do you have one pending sausage from yesterday?

Also, you have a PM.

Michael.
I would dearly want to buy one.. Just a bit worried about two things - export from the US and also about bullets.. Brass I could just order a lifetime supply right away, but bullets... hmmm!! .500" bullets only made in the US (or could be custom made by GS Custom) - but I bet they would be a pain to get here...
A pity I do not live in the US - then I would have bought one right NOW!!!

I have had several guns built over the last couple of years to have on hand if someone wanted one of these. All the 50-458-416 B&Ms in different configurations, 50 Super Shorts, a couple of Marlins in 50 B&M AK. I have a 416, 50 Super Short, and the two Marlins left on hand, all the rest have disappeared. Along with dies and brass. This way, should someone like to have one, no waiting, it's RTG-(ready to go). All at my exact cost, nothing more. Not in the gun selling business and don't want to be. That's why I had these two guns built too. I suppose I will try and contain myself and keep these guns "pure" as I would like to see them in the hands of someone that can use them. I have 3 500 MDMs now!

Buffalo
As for .500 bullets you have a good point, especially in your situation. I am not so sure how difficult it would be for David to make some and send to you? As for export, I know a group that Daryl Lenkic used to get his 50 B&M and 416 B&M in to Australia, rifles, dies, bullets, brass the works. But not sure how that would work in Denmark. There are guys in Germany that get Lehigh bullets, but that is Germany. I think once you sent me a link for some CNC bullets you were using from Denmark??? If I recall correctly? If so, they could make the .500s. Corbin has been working with some fellow on some .500s and I have several samples now to test, which will be another source of .500s too.

GS could make them easy I am sure.

Anyway..........

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

Originally posted by DWright:
Heh Jim, when you git that little 50 MDM thing all dun, you gotta git back up here and let me shoot that sucker! We'll go huntin bears n' stuff. . . . . .

I absolutely will do that Dennis. Speaking of huntin bears...do you have one pending sausage from yesterday?

Also, you have a PM.

Unfortunatly, no sausage makin's, just found some pretty big tracks in the mud for a half mile or so.
Tangle got so thick we darn near didn't get out of there. Sure glad I wasn't carrying a long barreled blaster.
Yup, new montra. . . . "seventeen or go home"!

The 470 B&M doing 500 @ 2150 in a 6.5 lb gun will be so sweet.
A small but reliable shoulder and plenty of bullets designed for that velocity. Pistol poppers for pigs and crows too!

michael458

Sent you a PM

Thanks
mark

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
The 470 B&M doing 500 @ 2150 in a 6.5 lb gun will be so sweet.
A small but reliable shoulder and plenty of bullets designed for that velocity. Pistol poppers for pigs and crows too!

Boomy

475 B&M. Just getting away from common with the name. Anyway, 475 is closer to actual of 474. I think it's gonna be fine. In the end I might have some bullets made for it like for the 50s, a really good solid, maybe some brass HP's to match.

I have tested the 400 gr Hornady .474s made for the handguns up to 2000 fps and it did fine, it will be an excellent bullet for the 475 Super Short. I am not sure of other bullets available, I have not looked at 470s in a long time.



Coloradoyaler

Got it and info sent.

Michael

aww, you should have called it the 470 BM, like the 470mbogo, 470 AR and 470 NE .. .475's shoot .483 bullets, MM

you know,, i didn't do a 470 ar on a mauser yet ...

MM, did you use a .540 shoulder, like the AR ?

Jeffe

Probably should have done 470 B&M, but too late now.

I will fess up and tell the truth, I got tired of playing with drawings, and lazy, and I told Brian the other week just take a 50 squeeze it to 470, with a 1/4 inch neck! Same with the super short and the same with the 410 B&M. I will let him and Dave sort out whatever they sort out!

Now I did not do that with any of the others, but these I did!

I imagine the shoulders will be very close. I may have old spec drawings from several years ago, but I did not use them anyway. We have done so many now, that Brian and Dave got it down!

I don't want to hear about the labor pains, show me the baby! LOL

Michael

quote:

MM, did you use a .540 shoulder, like the AR ?

Edited very heavily: Cartridge was spec'd at .536 shoulder, same as 500 MDM Ultra, guess we'll all find out in the future.

Jim

I cheated on these! Running out of time so I put Brian on them.

M

i am usually prety passive, but why not just cut the 470 ar a bit shorter? hell, it don't matter

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Jim

I cheated on these! Running out of time so I put Brian on them.

M

No problem. LOL

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
i am usually prety passive, but why not just cut the 470 ar a bit shorter? hell, it don't matter

Well, it's 2.25 for the WSM action. So that is basically what I am doing.

Of course the SS is 1.65 for the WSSM action.

M

Michael,
Unflattering photos of the first 458B&M in Australia.



Looks a bit lighter than my 10lb 458AccRel ...


I chopped some brass and formed it tonight ... all I coudl think of is: "I dont need a 50B&M ... I dont need a 50B&M ... maybe I need a 50B&M ... jeez a 50B&M would be nice."



Stock will need relieving as its pressing hard against the tang ... I'll take better photos this weekend ... but that barrel is 22" long and 0.650" at the muzzle with the exact same contour as the 350RemMag donor. The rifle can now be easily held at arms length and fully extended.
Cheers...
Con

NICE! that one will be lighter!

quote:

Originally posted by Con:
Michael,
Unflattering photos of the first 458B&M in Australia.



Looks a bit lighter than my 10lb 458AccRel ...


I chopped some brass and formed it tonight ... all I coudl think of is: "I dont need a 50B&M ... I dont need a 50B&M ... maybe I need a 50B&M ... jeez a 50B&M would be nice."



Stock will need relieving as its pressing hard against the tang ... I'll take better photos this weekend ... but that barrel is 22" long and 0.650" at the muzzle with the exact same contour as the 350RemMag donor. The rifle can now be easily held at arms length and fully extended.
Cheers...
Con

Con now don't you be taken your hacksaw to that barrel…say maybe 19” or 20” in length…you may never recover and start looking for other barrels to chop off too!

Go for it! My new saying's gunna be:
"If you can't pack it, wack it"!

Or somethin like that, might need some refining. . . . . . .

Con

Not only is it the first 458 B&M in Australia (not counting the one I took last year to wack 7+ buffalo with) it is the first 458 B&M owned in Australia, and the first B&M of any sort ever built on a Ruger action! I will be interested when this is up and shooting! We have never done a Ruger.

As for wacking that barrel, it's easy, there is no barrel band to worry with, we will get that thing down to respectable lengths 18 or so is my favorite of course.

I have created a monster now with Dwright, he is wacking everything he owns now! But I must make him understand, there are only a few cartridges you can do that with!

Big article coming out in Australia on the B&Ms next month I think in Australian Shooter, or something like that. Can't wait to see a copy of that.

Michael

I was going to use a Ruger MK II in 300 WSM but found the magazine shorter than on the M70 Winchester 300 WSM.
Would have taken some extra work to get the mag box a little longer with the Ruger WSM action.
Hence my use of the Winchester M70.
Still waiting on Brian at SSK ...