458 BM -- 458AR -- 460weatherby ...
short, standard, and HUGE action .. notice, we miss the long!

OK, I've been lurking around here watching and learning about the B&M series of cartridges for some time now.

As most know, I am a hard core Blaser shooter because I am very fond of the rifles, have proven them to me in the fields all over the world and they offer the best variety of cartridge selection a lefty can ever get.

That being said, I really wanted a big bore, something over the .40 or .416 variety and can't get that in my R93 and I didn't want to invest in a new R8.

Guess after looking over many options for myself in the .458 family of cartridges, I chose to have a .458 B&M made on a lefty Win 70 Classic rifle.

Finding a WSM rifle at a good price in a cartridge that I have less than NO use for (7mm WSM) was easy.

Then many e mail conversations with Michael regarding his cartridges resulted in my rifle going off to SSK for the conversion.

I got my dies and brass from Michael. Which is someting that even as a fairly advanced reloader, I'd never want to pursue myself.

Now the rifle is in hand. A beautiful job from SSK I might add and I have to find time to get some reloading done so I can get this rifle outside for a proper work out....

All I can say is Michael was great and very helpful throughout the entire process. SSK was also very reasonable and easy to work with. Delivered the custom project in much less time that you normally expect for such a job.

My experience began by reading all about these cartridges on AR and other sources. Guess that's a good thing about the internet. Not many places you could get this much information on such a unique family of cartridges.

If they are not your "cup of tea" fine. Just don't piss in these guy's mess gear for providing shooters and hunters with options other than those promoted by the big gun makers.

I'll happily carry my 458 B&M in Moz chasing Cape Buff on my next trip!

(The R93 will also go along for the PG portion of the hunt, in 9.3x64 of course!)

quote:

Guess what I get to do this morning? I have to get cleaned up and go to a "Dance" competition! NO, not me, I can't dance (roll around in bullets naked yes) but can't dance for crap. My 6 yr old daughter! What a glorious day I have!

Michael while it would be a glorious day to get a picture of you in a too-too I’m sure I speak for us all that we’re very happy it’s your daughter who’ll be doing the dancing! I also presume that she got her good looks from “she who must be obayed”!

Chopper guy. . . . . . .
Right on!
I myself am seriously thinking of having a short .50 B&M built when I get a little more flush. Have chatted back and forth with michael in the past regarding this. He was extremely helpful and giving with worthwhile information. It's a shame the nay-sayers don't do a little more reading about them before they just jump in and redicule. Guess it's hard to teach an old and dim dog new tricks!
Good luck with your new rifle!

Chopper

Brian and I were talking Thursday I think and he wanted to know if all was well and you were happy with the 458 B&M. I told him I thought so, but that I was unsure if you had time to shoot yet.
I suppose you have not made it to that point yet. I know you have everything you need, but if not just drop me a line, whatever will be on the way. You have all the load data you need right?

You simply must keep us posted here on your progress with it.

Buffalo? 450 Swift and 450 Barnes banded, 77-78 grs AA 2520, makes good buffalo pills! They can't take much of that!

Be sure and let me know when you are going, I will be wanting to send you off with some 458 B&M brass for that, I can't recall how much you have, but I have more of course.

Glad it has worked out good for you. How's it handle and feel? Compared to other rifles you have handled in that category?

Michael

Capo

Long day, "obayed" the boss, played dance contest, and all that sort of thing all day. Well, gotta do what you gotta do! Oh for sure baby takes after Mommy! Mommy looks damn good in a too-too or is it tu-tu? Well last time I had a tu-tu on someone complained about my legs, so it has been some time since then. Let me see if I can find photos of that somewhere?

Dwright

50 B&M or 50 B&M Super Short? I forget which one you favor. I get oldtimers and forget easy. Confused,that sort of thing. Or 50 B&M SA, or 50 B&M AK? Holy cow, now I am confused? HEH!

Michael

Ya, I like that real short one. Can't remember if you said you tried a hardcast in one or not. . . . , but the idea intrigue's the hell out of me. Short rifle; light, handy, powerful big bore. . . . what's not to like.

And to all you dumbass naysayer's: I don't want no damn 10 lb. rifle for nothin, no where, no time, no how! My .375 weighs 7-3/4 lbs, and that's about right for me. And definately no hillbilly fish stringer attachment on the end of the barrel, they should be outlawed!
. . . . . Just sayin' . . . . . . .

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Mommy looks damn good in a too-too or is it tu-tu? Well last time I had a tu-tu on someone complained about my legs, so it has been some time since then. Let me see if I can find photos of that somewhere?

Tu-tu it is...I'll blame it on the pain medication!

Dwright

You bring up an interesting point, that I have actually forgotten about. When I first started with the 50s (.500) I tried and shot every .500 caliber bullet I could get my hands on. This included all the cast bullet designs and several makers. Accuracy was sometimes extremely good to 50 yds and most of the time did well. But when I first took the cast loads to 100 yds they went all to hell. I am talking 3-5 inch groups with cast bullets! WOW, I really got very concerned about my barrels and longer ranges? I took all the jacketed bullets to 100 yards and got little tiny groups with those! Repeated many many times to satisfy myself, finally I came to the conclusion that for whatever reason these guns would just not shoot cast bullets at all! Again I tried in the current 2 inch version 50 B&M SA, 50 Super Short, and the 50 B&M. None of which was successful, fast, slow, medium velocity, all sorts of different powders, every combination I could come up with, and finally just gave up completely on cast bullets in any of these .500 caliber barrels! Just was not to be!

Jacketed, or solids, far more accurate than I can shoot and never coming up short on accuracy in any department, but not so for cast bullets.

Later a good friend of mine ended up with 2 50 B&M Super Shorts, one little bolt gun, the other a Ruger # 1. His won't shoot cast bullets either, and he shoots and loves cast bullets in all his rifles, but not in the 50s, and he is willing to accept far less than myself in that department.

The 458 B&M is great for cast bullets, and this same fellow has a 458 B&M and shoots it regular with cast bullets, in fact mostly cast is what he shoots in his. I suspect the new 458 B&M Super SHort will do well for cast too. I will try it.

When you lay hands on the Super Short rifles, you can't believe them, they are in a class totally on their own, just ask Sam about them.

Speaking of Sam! Sam sent an email I think yesterday, I have not responded back yet, but he is starting load development on the 375 B&M and I am going to post his results. Sam, hope you don't mind?

Michael,

Thought you would like to see results of my 375 with 20 inch barrel. I did some load work today with RL-15 and 300 Grain Hornaday soft point bullets.

60 Gr RL15 300 gr bullet Velocity 2266
61 Gr “ 2347
62 “ 2408
63 “ 2456
64 “ 2458
65 “ 2538 Primer has some cratering but not really flat.
66 “ 2536 “ “ “ “ “

Looks like 63 grains may be the best load from what my chrono shows. I might be able to reduce pressure a little if a turn more off the necks. I might also try Varget but it looks like I may need to go to a slightly faster powder like IMR 4063 or even IMR 3031.

2456 FPS out of a 20 inch barrel with a 300 grain bullet is nothing to turn one’s nose up at.

Sam


When doing load development I am a case expansion measurer. Sometimes this is a mystery, especially when a totally new development, such as the B&Ms. I will tell you what I came up with.

First to have any idea, I fired some 300 RUMs and measured just above the extractor groove at the pressure ring. Lord factory loads measured to increase of .005 inches. That seemed like a lot to me, so I did 300 WSM and some of the Super Short cartridges too. Pretty much same story, case expansion to .005 inches. I was more used to belt expansion of .001-.0015 on the belted cases.

So I started working with the 50s and I just pulled out of the air that case expansion getting close to .0015 was getting to top pressures. I went on this premise for a long time. But I started pushing issues and even getting to expansion of .002-.0025 I only started seeing other factors coming into play, crater primers, flat primers and other indicators. So I changed up a bit and decided that case expansion to .0025 was closer to being max than .0015. So I developed the 50 B&M, 458 B&M and 416 B&M on that premise. Now remember, this is not new unfired brass, this is with brass that has been fired, and sized again. New brass will expand more readily before settling in.

One of the gun writers did an article on the 458 B&M but nearly insisted on pressure data. I really did not see the need, but I got off my lazy ass and hooked up the strain gages and put my pressure trace to work on all the current cartridges at the time to gather pressure data to go with it.

It was good that I did this for them, and I confirmed quickly that I was right on course with the case measurements, nearly dead on in most cases. I did learn that some of my 400 gr loads in the 416 B&M was pushing matters some however, while all 350 or less weight bullets were spot on.

As I started developing the 9.3 B&M recently I was not getting the velocities I thought it was capable of at an expansion of .0025. Looking at other indicators, at .0025 I don't believe I am anywhere close to max and I consider max safe pressure for all the B&Ms to be 65000 PSI. So I started to recall the .005 measurements on the small bore RUMs and WSMs. It figured that the smaller the bore size, the more case expansion that could be allowed? Maybe? So I started pushing things again. I got to case expansion of .0035 before I started noticing other factors that began to show up. So with the 9.3 B&M I set the current case expansion to .0035 for max safe pressures. So far that is holding up, it seems very safe, several hundred rounds fired now safely, and brass life long, I have not lost even one case yet after several firings each. No, I am too busy and too lazy to hook up the strain gages yet, so I am staying with .0035 expansion. I am sure the 375 B&M is in this exact same category.

Sam, I think I will see you tuesday, of course you are bringing the 375 B&M so we will measure some cases too. I am very sure we are safe at that measurement. One day we will hook the gages up to check.

Oh and by the way, since I am not a 375 fan at all, I know very little about how this 375 B&M compares to other 375 cartridges, someone want to enlighten me on that without me having to go to the books, as I really too lazy to do that too? It sounds pretty good to me! But I am no 375 expert either.



Capo

Save me some of that good pain meds, what are they? You know "Good Dope will give you Hope", ain't nothing to me to take a pain med, especially if they are free! Ones I get prescribed to take to the bush in case of accident, I get real stingy with those and the dates always run out before they are used! Damn shame too! But I get too stingy to take them, might need them someday if a bear bites me or something.

HEH

Michael

Michael...The meds aren’t heavy pain killers, just the typical Hydrocodone-10mg/Acetaminophen-325mg combo tablets…they do help me sleep and do take the edge of the pain if I overdo things but primarily they keep me from scratching those darn staples.

Michael,

Sure you are welcome to share what I have done on the 375 B&M. I loaded up a bunch more ammo today with several different powders to try. I will post results when I get them. As far as pressure indicators, I to use case expansion to know what pressure is doing. Since I used a 375 Rum reamer to make my chamber the rear of the chamber has less clearance than most factory chambers. I have not seen any case head changes thus far. Another indicator I use for max pressure is when adding powder doesn't give you a gain in velocity. This may not be the best way to know max load but It has always worked for me. I have fired cases now about 10 times each and primer pockets are tight but looser than when I started.
More to come.

Sam

Capo

Well keep taking them and don't stop until you feel better. You can keep the little 350s, I have some 750s and 800s, big dogs! But, I don't use them, might need them for real sometime! Are you at home, or still in the hospital? Fast recovery I hope!

Michael

Michael,

Still not home yet…tomorrow afternoon I move back home! It’s been awhile, got out of the hospital on the eighth day and today is the eighth day at a close friend’s home.

The recovery seems to be going well and I am feeling better than I have for a few months now but I would lose a race with a little old lady in a walker. I definately will have a lot of walking and stretching exercises to do these next few months to get the strength and elasticity back in the body.

Did I tell you I received my headstamp stamp? I haven't seen it yet but son say's it's a heavy piece of metal. I'll stamp up a couple of pieces of brass after I get home and will post.

Well today I'm loading a bunch of 458 B&M. Starting with some 450gr Swift A Frames and Barnes Banded solids. I'm anxious to see hoe they shoot.

Also, my rifle is having no problem holding 3 down (with dummy loads), they stay perfectly in place. Brian did a great job with the whole rifle.

I'm also going to load up some lighter bullets for practice and deer hunting - Just for fun.

I've got some 300 gr Barnes spire point originals that should suit that role nicely.

Still my biggest problem is scope selection and not really a big deal. I'll probably end up with mt Trijicon Accupoint 1.25-4 with German cross hair and green dot. I've grown fond of illuminated reticles even in daylight for hunting in dark woods and shadows.

We're finally getting spring rains so shooting will have to wait a bit longer.

Michael,

Here are some more loads I worked up today for the Modified 375 B&M. My case has same 2.250 length and a .320 neck with a shoulder angle of 30 degrees. Necks were turned to .406 but need a couple more thousanths taken off to get good release. Barrel is an Adams & Bennett F44 contour 1-12 twist Chrome Moly at 20 inches.

Fire form load was 59 Grains RL-12 and a 220 grain Hornaday bullet with a velocity of 2326 fps.

The maximun case expansion was .0015 with the 63 grain load of IMR4064. Cases had been fired before several times so may not expand quite as much as new brass. All loads used a 300 grain Hornaday SP that were made 25 years ago. Sorry for the RL-12 loads but I like this powder and I have lots of it that I bought when it was discontinued years ago.

58 Grs IMR 4895 2164fps
59 Grs IMR 4895 2226fps
60 Grs IMR 4895 2261fps

60 Grs IMR 4064 2303fps
61 Grs IMR 4064 2351fps
62 Grs IMR 4064 2408fps
63 Grs IMR 4064 2453fps

63 Grs Varget 2369fps
64 Grs Varget 2365fps
65 Grs Varget 2426fps
66 Grs Varget 2430fps

59 Grs RL-12 2288fps
60 Grs RL-12 2310fps
61 Grs RL-12 2338fps
62 Grs RL-12 2390fps
63 Grs RL-12 2424fps

58 Grs IMR 3031 2313fps
59 Grs IMR 3031 2354fps

Michael, your shooting range has got me spoiled. Shooting today in high winds was not fun. The wind was trying to blow everything off my bench. See you Tuesday if nothing comes up.

Sam

Sam

I promise if you are only getting .0015 case expansion with fired cases, you can go further if you want to or felt the need to do so. Me, a 300 gr bullet at 2450 fps should do all anyone needs to do with a 375 gr bullet of that size.

I have been happy with a tad over 2500 for the 286s in the 9.3. But what I have the 9.3 for is plains game and stuff like that, and the 250 Barnes at 2700 fps in the 9.3 will do anything I could ever want to do with the 9.3.

Bring some loads Tuesday and we can run thru the data pretty quick if you want, not an issue.

Sam this is excellent, thank you!



Chopper

Get back with us on your results when you get some shooting in!

What we have found with the 50 and the 458 B&M is this;
These are WIn M70 WSM rifles, designed for a cartridge holding roughly a 140-180 gr bullet up front. When you put a 458 or a 50 in that magazine it is topped with 450-510 gr bullets up front, lot's of weight in front that the magazine rails are not designed to hold down, so with those two cartridges there is a retaining issue, rounds will pop out of the magazine unless there is some work done. Brian is able to work magic here. Most of the time he sorts it out before you ever get the gun. I keep him in dummy loads to run thru the guns. Every once and awhile one will slip by that might develop some retaining issues after some shooting in. If so, it's simple, send it back to Brian, and never has it come back ater that time and not retain from then on. Feed and function is just not an issue with any common bullet. Some big meplat cast bullets might give an issue, but nothing other than that. Give it a hard workout, don't cut it any slack when you start shooting, slam that bolt and work it hard!

You got the message about the bases the other day? Like I said I have that same exact scope, I don't like the crosshairs, but like the scope itself. It's close to a Lupy 1.5X5.

Keep us posted, and of course if you need anything let me know!



Capo

Get better soon my friend, is there anything I can do from here?

Yes, the head stamp, there has been so much going on the last couple of days I missed getting back to you on that. DO get some photos posted on that, I am very interested in that as you know!


Michael

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

Did I tell you I received my headstamp stamp? I haven't seen it yet but son say's it's a heavy piece of metal. I'll stamp up a couple of pieces of brass after I get home and will post.

Jim

Hoorah!
A headstamp bunter of your own?
What kind of press will you use to stamp heads?
What wildcat was that?
Who made the bunter?

470mbogo had his own bunter, used a hydraulic jack or press of some kind ...

Gallstone pancreatitis or gangrene of the gall bladder, either could be a killer.
US Attorney Generals and Kentucky Governors alike have been sidelined recently by such.
Knock wood!

Get off the Narco before headstamping your thumb, or popping a stitch from straining on the handle of a press.
Take good care, ya heah?
JackPhantomHuckleberryHoundDog, RIP

Thanks Michael, I know I can go heavier with the loads I posted. I just ran out of brass and time to do any more today. I think IMR 3031 loads could be increased a few more grains. I had a 60 grain load to try but it was a little long on headspace and wouldn't chamber. I'll make up a few more loads above what I've tried for us to test. This cartridge is turning out to be a really nice one and will be a great plains game and in a pinch for the bigger stuff with the right bullet. I will build another with a lighter barrel when I get time. I found some good looking 375 solids of unknown manufacture that I will bring to try. The bullet is steel jacketed and has a nice flat point, weight 300 grains.
This cartridge with lighter bullets may really turn on the heat.

Sam

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

Did I tell you I received my headstamp stamp? I haven't seen it yet but son say's it's a heavy piece of metal. I'll stamp up a couple of pieces of brass after I get home and will post.

Jim

Hoorah!
A headstamp bunter of your own?
What kind of press will you use to stamp heads?
What wildcat was that?
Who made the bunter?

Gallstone pancreatitis or gangrene of the gall bladder, either could be a killer.
US Attorney Generals and Kentucky Governors alike have been sidelined recently by such.
Knock wood!

Get off the Narco before headstamping your thumb, or popping a stitch from straining on the handle of a press.
Take good care, ya heah?
JackPhantomHuckleberryHoundDog, RIP

RIP,

Gall bladders can be a pain, mine ruptured the afternoon before I hit the emergency room…fortunately I can now say never again but it sure was painful.

Cartridge is the 50 MDM that Michael and I have been working on awhile now…slots nicely between the 50 B&M below and the 500 MDM above. But we’re still working out a few kinks relating to the cartridge and magazine retention but will hopefully have that issue taken care of shortly…

This time I went with a heavy metal hand stamp that allows the use of a small sledge hammer though I plan to use a hydraulic press – I just haven’t put all the press parts together yet. I’m using wife’s laptop while she’s out of town (mine’s having an issue but not dead yet) so don’t have any of the manufacturer information with me. If the stamp doesn’t work out well then I’ll work on having a true bunt manufactured.

No cast heh? Darn! Well, the .458 would probably fill the bill better for myself anyway, as I have quite a few moulds in that caliber. I have heard about problems being encountered with .50 cals in handguns as well. I just can't quite wrap my head around why that seems to be the breaking point with cast. I would imagine it has something to do with the surface shearing point of the lead material once a givin bullet dia and weight are concerned. Too much mass in the interior of the bullet as related to the bearing surface for proper grip with the lands. Has anyone checked for bullet skidding on the .50s I wonder. . . . . . . . . Possibly a rear & front driving band gas check to remedy?

Dennis

No, none of the 50s shoot cast at all! I was disappointed too, but I don't shoot much cast in the rifles anymore anyway. I don't know why, and I am no cast expert. But I tried low and higher velocity, 1:18 twists and 1;12 twists, made no difference at all.

Yes, the 458 would be a better choice I think if you wanted to shoot cast bullets. Now it's just choose between the itty bitty 458 Super Short, or the 458 B&M??? The 458 Super Short is the same size gun as the 50 Super Short! Which I am and will be waiting on dies for the 458 version for some time before starting load development on it. I think it is going to really shine in that 300-400 gr bullet class, and it should be just dandy for cast bullets, as David shoots a lot of cast in his 458 B&M, same barrels.

Michael

Well I have some samples of what the 458 B&M Super Short is going to look like, sorta. These are formed, not fire formed. Will be waiting on dies from Hornady, have 5 sets on order, I suspect that it will be 2-3 months at best, along with 500 MDM, 458 BM SA, 375 B&M and 9.3 B&M.


Here is the rifle compared to a 458 B&M with 20 inch barrel. The 458 Super Short will sport 16 inch barrels, or mine will anyway.


Dennis, I do suspect the 458 version should shoot cast pretty good, a good friend has been shooting cast in his 458 B&M and I think Chopperguy intends to shoot some cast in his.

The 475 B&M Super Short will be the same setup too.

M

Cute.
I "Touched Indians" with Brian at SSK.
He has it right.
The barrel-band swivel base will be eliminated from my short-barreled .458 B&M.
It is silly on such a short and slim barrel as mine.
I like the swivel base on the stock forend tip best anyway.
20" barrel is plenty short for me.
Carry on.

RIP

Excellent! I quit putting them on most of mine too. I think it looks pretty good on the rifle above, but if it were shorter, or slimmer in your case, might not look right. Are you still going to be able to do a front barrel band? Those are standards on mine, personal preference of course, but I think they are rather classy! Especially on the "HillBilly" stocks, eh?

Never had an issue with the studs on the forend! Just hold tight like you should with a big bore and don't let that hand slip!

As for the little 458 Super Short, I figure it will do better than 45/70 by a bit and be just plain good fun. Probably pretty good pig gun I reckon. I think the combo of that 330 Barnes Banded and a 350 TSX should be excellent working together! Anyway, I need something to peak my interests a bit and keep me busy! I hate to be without a project or sometimes a few!

M

Doc M,
I mean that the forward swivel base must be pointed parallel to the long axis of the forearm/barrel bore. Sticking out from the tip of the stock, like a nipple from a tit.
Tits and nipples are very kind to the shooter's hand.

Yep, barrel band front. Requested NECG parts.

Front Sight:
Masterpiece Banded Ramp # R-100-728
Windowed Hood # R-120
Bead S-4 Night Sight # R-104-256

Rear Sight:
Masterpiece Fully Adjustable: # R-200-930

Parts is parts!!!
JackPhantomHuckleberryHoundDog, RIP.

RIP

OK, I think I am with you on the tits and nips, on the tips!

As for fronts and rears






I think something like this! Definitely my favorites!

Hey! Same parts as I want on mine!
I like the matte black finish on the sights, and a bead-blasted stainless barrel,
hopefully with the same caliber engraving.

Replica of Old Betsy "Presented to David Crockett at Nashville, Tenn. May 5, 1822"

A 40-caliber/.395 roundball Squirrel&Bear Rifle!!!
JackPhantomHuckleberryHoundDog, RIP

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Well I have some samples of what the 458 B&M Super Short is going to look like, sorta. These are formed, not fire formed. Will be waiting on dies from Hornady, have 5 sets on order, I suspect that it will be 2-3 months at best, along with 500 MDM, 458 BM SA, 375 B&M and 9.3 B&M.


The 475 B&M Super Short will be the same setup too.

M

Michael,

That 458 B&M SS with the BND SLD is darn cute lookin and should be an awesome on pigs!!!

RIP

I like the matte black rear sight against the matte stainless too! I have often wondered (but never mentioned to Brian) what a matte black front barrel band and matte black rear sight would look like on a matte stainless barrel? For my purposes I have now settled on all my rifles being set up just like what you see. Some of the first rifles I wanted versatility to be able to set up anything and any sight with putting a T'SOB just forward of the receiver and using the XS Ghost ring rear, being able to use either forward scope or Aimpoint with that. But the forward scope soon fell out of favor with me because of the field of view, while the Aimpoint is still very good and I can shoot it better than irons, it still is not a 1.5X5 Leupold, and in the field I have trouble seeing the target proper in brush. So that sorta fell out of favor with me too! So I have settled now on the NECG rear and the barrel band front on all my rifles. This configuration also just looks good in addition to being useful. That big bead is easy to pick up, and if I am going to use irons it will be close anyway, within 25 yds!

Jim

That Barnes is the little 330 gr designed for the 458 Socom I think. Man it is a fine little solid, penetration dead straight to 50 inches in the 458 B&M. Even overrides the slow twist rates of the Hi Walls in 45/70 too. It should be a perfect combo with any 458 bullet from 300-400 grs, which is what the 458 Super Short is for. I can't wait to start playing with it! Damn Dies!

Michael

Doc M,
Brian responded in less than a day to my last email yesterday, discussed the metal finish, "can do."

And he asked me for some dummy ammo to establish the throat I want, glory be!

I believe Brian has my .458 B&M in his headsup display, and is getting ready to lock on these missiles I am sending him tomorrow for throat go-guages and feed dummies:



With a throat like this, and a 1:10" twist, I will be able to handle any bullet I want for whisperin' or whalin' or just plain ol' elephant cullin'.
The 20 Gauge 3.5" "Hellboy" is just for kicks.

JackPhantomHuckleberryHoundDog, RIP

OK guys; here's the deal. . . . .

I'm not exactly a newbie when it comes to handling and shooting rifles. But I got the opertunity to actually handle one of Michaels 16" barreled .50 B&M short mag Winchesters today.
I had seen pictures of it, but when I pulled it out of the box and unwrapped it, I was surprised at it's shorter than expected carbine like length.

This has got to be THE sweetest handling rifle I have ever had the pleasure to shoulder, period!
With it's short barrel it actually feels extremely well balanced and comes up fast. WAY fast!
Damn, I forgot to set it on our postal scales and weigh it, but it is very light. Walkin around the shop with it in my hand it felt about like a little '94 Win. carbine, BUT with a big hole in the front end.

I'm gunna go shoot this thing in the hills on Wednesday at a variety of ranges from 10 yards, to about 500, and would be happy to report how that goes if there is any interest.
Hmmm, not sure I can wait that long. . . . . .

Sweet!

What is the case capacity of the unfired case?

Should be close to the 458 2"

All those WSSM rifles should be rebarreled to this.

450 Marlin power in a micro action!

RIP

Yes, Brian is pretty good these days about checking his email. They had a little change up there recently the girl that had been handling the office for years took a leave, new girl is catching on, but there is a lot to handle. Brian pretty much runs the shop a lot of the time anyway, and has had to take on lot's of extra duties, including more communication.

Yes, it appears that he is zeroing in and going to get you sorted out shortly.

I can't wait for you to get it and start shooting some of those long missiles, that will be interesting to say the least! With your setup, I think it will be a versatile rifle!

M

Dwright

I can show photos, talk about them, try to convey what they are, but I have always contended that one can really not get a handle on it until hands are actually laid upon one. Then it all becomes clear. I think you just experienced that, as I knew you would, I have seen it a lot!

Sam on his first visit had that experience, LOL and nothing would do but for him to go home loaded with rifle, brass, bullets, dies.

I am extremely interesting in your honest opinion after you do some shooting and playing with it, but I am not so sure 500 yds is exactly what it is all about! LOL, but it should be fun.

I have never found but one little quirk with these guns and it seems to be inherit with all of them. During recoil the magazine spring rides to the front, up and over the little hump on the floor plate. When it does this, then the follower holds the cartridges in a position with the nose pointing down. Of course this effects feed and function. Move the spring back, follower sits level, issue solved. I have three of these guns. Now I am no gunsmith, and it is dangerous to turn me loose with any serious tools, I can destroy a good deal of things with the right tools and have a reputation of doing just that. So I have taken some JB Weld mixed myself up some and put a dab on the front of the spring to keep it from moving forward during recoil solving that entire issue. I have not done that with the gun you have, but did bend the hell out of that spring, I don't think it's moving forward, but might. On the little guns that is the only little quirk about them I have found, after heaps of shooting too.

Boomy

Both the 458 SS holds 66.9 grs water, 50 SS holds 69.7, both the same, might as well say 70 I suppose.

I have some ideas of what the 458 will do, but will wait until I start working load data on it.

The 50 that Dennis is playing with this week will shoot 300 Hornady at 2345 fps with 53/WW 296-The top load for the 300 Hornady is 56/WW 296 for 2425 fps.

I think I sent Dennis 3 loads, 350 Brass HP with 48/WW 296 for 2160 fps, 380 Copper HP with 48/WW 296 for 2050 fps, and some Remington 385s with 51/WW 296 for 2150 fps.

I figure that the little 458 SS will be super for any of the 300-400 gr 458 caliber bullets. It should do extremely well with the 350 Barnes X at 2150 or so I would think pretty easy. And remember I have those 300 gr Brass HP's! Should smoke with those, and they are extremely effective NonCons! Should be fun!

Just waiting on the dies now!

M

Michael, I will say, that if it shoots as nice as it feels, I WILL be placing an order for one pretty soon! Think I would have to go for a .458 bore however, as I have a ton of LBT bullet moulds in that caliber.

And if those old fashion 'armchair shooters' think that these little guns have no advantage when having to move fast for dangerous game, then they're nut's!
The guy's at the shop are all seasoned hunters, and everyone made a comment on just how fast the rifle feel's.
In fact sounds like there may be more then just myself that will place an order with SSK.

Will know more about which case length would be more desirable after shooting the gun. The 16" barrel is awesome and not sure if 18" would be advantagious enough to go with it; maybe, but wouldn't want anymore then that for sure; will refer to Michael on that issue later.

Yup, if you guy's have not handled one of these babys, you just have no idea how handy they are for sure.

One more thing I'd like to add here. I talked with Michael on the phone for a bit yesterday, and have to say, you've never talked with a more pleasant chap. A real 'Down home country gentleman'!

Well part of our "West Coast Boys" sent some photos of them playing with the itty bitty 50 B&M Super Short yesterday. I must say it's a hoot, here are a few of those!

First here is our boy DWright getting out of the vehicle with both guns ready! Not real sure what that "great big gun" on he bottom is! That's the 50 on top!


I think this is DB doing his thing



This is DWright shooting a squirrel!


I am not sure if they are hunting "Whales" (some mention about one of them being up a whales ass on the TBP thread????) or if DWright is demonstrating how they fish out there? I could start fishing like that, looks like more fun than using a pole and string?


Must have got one I suppose.

Long Range Squirrels!


Trying to look taller by standing on a log!


Oppps, I reckon bears do crap in the woods!



Good Show Boys!


M

The bottom one is a .375 Ruger pop gun. . . .

Now Michael, with this fishing thing, you are talking about an area of my expertise. . . . .
West coast rules of fishing with large bores: Aim low. The deeper the water, the lower you aim!
And, the bigger the bore, the better, no exceptions.
Hmmmm, I better check the regs on minimum required caliber. . . . . . .

DWright

I could get in this fishing with big bores! Sounds like that is the way to do it to me. Minimum caliber, why nothing unless it starts with a "4" is what I would say!

Wonder how a brass HP NonCon would do with that? 6 petals, breaking off at 2 inches in the water, spreading out away from center, solid continuing straight. Hmmm? Wonder if meplat size makes a difference, bigger meplat, aim more dead on, straighter penetration?

Some things to ponder!


M

Michael, you still need to aim lower as the depth of the fish increase's, as the fish appears higher then it really is; the light bending through the water n' all. (where's that Alf, I'm sure he can tell us all about this. . . ).
But I bet that big ol non-con would be just the ticket for our kinda fishin. May be able to get away with just gettin close!
Heh. . . . . that's what we need by golly. . . . is a non-con fishin thread!
OK, we need someone with a wading pool and a mess of carp. Who's in. . . . ?

Wondering Michael what the difference is in weight between the .50 Super short with the plastic stock like I have here, and a wooden stocked rifle, if any?