Rob... If you do your steel rims the 28 GFH could fly using 500 jeffery brass and shoot either 550 or 577 bullets. 577 for bolt and 550 for shotgun or bolt. The 500 AHR brass is the longest.

Marc Jamison has already made brass for a "28 Gauge Sig Super Mag" which is hellaciosly close to a 28GaFH.
Best not to mess with screw-on rims if you don't have to.
I never did get "The Rest of the Story" on the 28Ga Sig Super Mag ...

Jamison International, LLC would be my first choice to make drawn brass 12GaFH, with shotgun primer and 50BMG primer, either or.

Love that Blue Dot and H50BMG cocktail.

While its totally ass-backwards to me, I dont off hand see why 209 shotgun primers could not be adapted to .50BMG threaded cases. I take a look at it this weekend once I've played the spring game with the NEF. The adapters would be dirt cheap. BTW, I broke down and bought a new Chrograph today. I am dying to know the velocity of my 220gr load
Boomie- I must be dense why do you want a 28gaFH?-Rob

I bought a Competitive Edge Dynamics M2 Chrono in preperation for when I do my 12GFH/.729 Express. I'm very happy with it, I like how the only thing down range is the sensor package, the rest is 30' away via a cable. So if I do accidently shoot the damn thing, I'm not up for a whole new chrono, just the sensors. It even has VRS so it can call out the velocitys as I shoot, dont even have to look at it, thats if I will be able to hear it tho.

Just an observation and thought some might want to lob out 550's or 577's

Not trying to complicate things but if there is an 8, 10, 12, 16, 20 might as well know there can be a 28 for those who want to go smaller. (LOL funny thinking of the 577/550 as small) Like the 50 BMG there is another case in the case of the 28 gauge that can use an existing brass like the 12 GFH fo form brass. If a casemouth headspace thing is an option one could shoot a rimless 28 Gauge out of a bolt action. A short bolt action 577 would be a nice non DG shotgun/pumkin roller pig splaterer. The cases need no real forming but cutting off at desired length and loading. A rimless bolt shotgun that can go on a number of actions that can fit the 500 jeffery might be interesting to a few nuts out there.

Just a thought

Gibs,
Good choice, that CED.
I'll get one of those after I shoot up my two remaining Pro Chrono Pluses.

Rob,
Anxious to see the 220-grain charge velocity with your load. You take the high road, and I'll take the low road. My low loads are a starter, will be going higher, and see how the RMC and Nohbozo cases overlap.
How much H50BMG does it take to fill one of your cases to the mouth?
Need to do a gross water weight comparison too.

I don't want to be so dependent on you for everything so will concentrate on 1400-grain Lead Darwins and see if I can work up to 220-grains of H50BMG with those, in the RMC brass, until I get all the kinks out of my system.
A replacement NEF spring is $2.20 from Numrich.
I am willing to pay more for one of yours.
There I go again, being dependent.

A bushing for fitting 209 primers into your Nohbozo brass would make any old NEF-er spring work. Would that be a stainless steel press fit or screw-in?
Love that Blue Dot and H50BMG.

RIP- I was thinking press fit adapters to preserve the option of using .50BMG primers in those cases. Just make a ton of them, as they should be pretty trivial to make on a bar feeder. I will make some and see how they work. Still think a new spring and .50BMG primers are the way to go but I'm becoming more open minded. My cases hold 335 gr of water as I remember and I will measure how much H50BMG tomorrow as I cant remember that value.
I would not hesitate at all to load the 1400 gr lead Darwins over 220gr of H50MBG. My guess is 1400-1500fps max though.-Rob

We have a 28GA FH with cases ready made by RMC that is
3.25" long, a true From Hell magnum length from our design
and already in two guns and soon 4 more and can get over
6000 ft lbs. And no having to make rims or thread cases.
And uses 550 cal barrels or uses smooth barrels on existing
28ga guns with modern barrels.We have slugs for rifled and
slugs that work for smooth, Latter is the Lyman 350-360 grain
slug guys cast for 20ga shotcup. Since we discovered the
use of the Lyman in a smooth 28ga FH guys will have 3-4 or more getting
reamed out for long brass case. 150 dollar Nef 28ga, a 100 dollars for
bunch of cases, I have a reamer specs set, and reamer done by end of Mar.
What guys have done to slip in bushings in BMG pocket is to use
large rifle primers, as the shotgun primers are too long.
I have put shotgun primer bushings in our long 12GA FH case, in cut off ones,
using a ready made hdwe 1/8" short brass pipe connector that has the nut in
middle. Drill out case, thread it with 1/8" pipe tap, screw in fitting,
cut off fitting flush, run reamer into hole in fitting, chamfer edge of hole
and voila all set for shotgun primers. Did the same on 16GA FH case.Now the
shotgun primers work fine in 28ga to fire slow rifle powders as the case
isn't of 20,16,12ga diameter powder charges that take more primer or a
starter powder to ignite. Ed

Speaking of Primers. Just out of idle curiosity, is there any valid reason why you would NOT use a BMG primer with normal rifle/shotgun powder's ?

The shotgun powders would be in smaller amounts
compared to rifle powders in same case and
very fast burning with regular primers. Those
fast powders speed and peak pressures would be
greatly accelerated with bmg primer that is
three times stronger than regular primer. To
dangerous of pressure changes.Fast rifle
powders like the 4759, 4227 we use with regular
primers would have to be in smaller amounts so
you'd have too much airspace or you'd fill it
with wads.but even then you are going to speed
up the powder. The goal is to keep pressures in
shotgun type actions low(25k psi brass case)
and level.Ed

RIP...my observations were just that...I will leave it to you or someone else to do the actual testing of your device. Who knows...it might just be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but I will stick to my sissy bag(s) in front of my shoulder and let the recoil push me around a bit and use the "lead sled/rifle vise" I made many long years ago...it's ugly but it works. I wouldn't try to talk anyone into or out of anything...

Taping/sewing/connecting sandbags bags together or adding handles at each end has been going on for as long as I can remember...much easier to grab a handle on a sandbag than to grab a heavy slick, wiggly object. If I had any business acumen I would be selling "handled bags" to the benchrest/1000yd boys/anyone right now...maybe someone has already done that.

I did do some work with a pendulum style "chronograph", along with several other very experienced wildcatters, to calculate recoil by the amount of offset produced by the rearward movement of the rifle...bullet torque complicated the proceedure with heavy recoiling shooters and we/they compensated by various means until it ended up basically with the rifle locked onto a weighted "lead sled/rifle vise" that freely slid on a piece of plexi-glass...basically a precursor to a "lead sled" by about 30 years...and nothing more than a modified "iron monster" of early "unlimited" benchrest days.

We tried many different combinations of weight added to the vise and to the shooter but never thought to "sandwich" ourselves in between a recoiling rifle and another object. Everyone... except me...already had experiences with broken stocks when the rifles butts were placed against some heavy object, so part of the experiment included providing some sort of "give" in the system to keep that from happening...I was a rank grunt/gopher boy for the most part...still a very good learning experience into many a great many facets of this sport.

A friend gave me this shell. Would this idea work for the 12GFH with 50cal brass? Use 32 H&R brass if the 38 rim is to big.

Nice pic, thanks, but even the F215 was not up to chores for the 700 NE.

Doubt the small pistol primer would be as good as a 209. Looks like that would weaken the case head too.

A 209 plus Blue Dot starter powder will do it.
As Ed points out, they are all adequate for setting off the Blue Dot starter.
Practical differences in 209's are subtle variations in the shape and hardness of the cup.

Some 209 makes are hotter than others and may produce pressure differences in low pressure shotshells, on the order of 3000 psi.

That may be a significant variation in an 11,500 psi shotshell,
but trivial in a 12GaFH,
so just pick a 209 that works and stay with it, working up to desired velocity.

I have collected 1000 each of 5 different shotgun primers for experimentation:
CCI209
CCI209M
Win209
Rem209P
Fed209A

The standard CCI209 is adequate, though any of the others may be hotter.
An NEF-er that won't set off a CCI209 is decrepit indeed.

Maybe I'll get an NEF-er capable of CCI35's one day, or a custom rifle.

A bushing for 209's or sticking with the 50BMG primers ... best options.

Book review:

In Practical Dope on the Big Bores by Fred C. Ness (1948):

"The .50-caliber machine gun load is an enormous one by shoulder weapon standards, and it must be the ultimate of the wildest wildcat dream."

Sounds like he was talking about Rob's 12GaFH.

That's a 20mm M103 case with a fully loaded 38 special blank used as a "Primer"...that there would be a tad hotter than a solo BMG primer. The standard percussion primer for the M102/103 case is the M36A2 which is about 25% bigger in volume and bang than an arsenal #35 primer aka CCI-35...

The CCI209 plus Blue Dot is a tad hotter than a 38 Special blank, maybe the same as a 38 special case loaded full of pistol powder.
I reckon the CCI209 plus Blue Dot is hotter than a 50BMG primer also.

Love that 209 plus Blue Dot.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
The CCI209 plus Blue Dot is a tad hotter than a 38 Special blank.
No change on my comments.

OH YEAH!!! Well 2 tablespoons of Bullseye, one tablespoon of Nescafe, and a pinch of Cayenne is even hotter...

O.K., I changed my comments.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
The CCI209 plus Blue Dot is a tad hotter than a 38 Special blank, maybe the same as a 38 special case loaded full of pistol powder.
I reckon the CCI209 plus Blue Dot is hotter than a 50BMG primer also.

Love that 209 plus Blue Dot.

Looked at the 209 primer/.50BMG situation today.The .50BMG primer hole will need to be reamed out and a suitable adapter bushing made. Biggest issue is some Bozo forgets to add priming powder and tries to light off a case of H50BMg with a 209 alone.Bad Karma will most likely ensue!
Maybe the 209 primer approach isnt such a good idea!-Rob

The 12GaFH is not for Bozos!
Turning a two-piece Nohbozo case into a 3-piece (case, rim, bushing) is getting to be a bit complicated.

RMC cases with 209's and Blue Dot.
Nohbozo cases with 35's.
I am visiting the smith with my Vais Brake tomorrow.
Will keep working on the hammer blow issue.

I thought the soft pistol primer and a shorten 38 special case or a 32 H&R case with a felt wad over blue dot would help to get things going. That is if the spring for the firing cannot be made stronger. Anyway good work and if New Jersey gets a bear season again I know who to call.

I think going to weaker primers and booster charges in any form is the wrong way to go. I appreciate the idea though and your efforts to help. The right answer is a stronger spring and keeping a strong ignition system. Using boosting charges is fine in the hands of experienced handloaders like RIP and ED, but sooner or later some Bozo is going to forget and potentially injure himself. I doubt the NEF would survive a double concussion or worse. I totally get the interest in using 209 primers and will make some adapters for the experienced Nohbozo's only. however, one of the basic features of the 12GaFH was the use of reliable .50BMG primers vs the need for duplex loads which I really dont care for.-Rob

Rob...you brought up an excellent good point...I've done a small amount of work with duplex loads and never liked the results either, too many ways of causing a major FU...

Working through the primer "problem" and coming up with a good solution is a prime example of "development" at it's best.

As far as using RMC brass, what are your ideas as far as the type of powder to use and the velocity/pressure issues with using the heavier 1400 gr Darwins or maybe a maximum slug weight to use with the RMC brass...

I still have a problem of finding CCI-35 primers, so unless I find another simple solution for priming I'm still stuck with not being able to use your cases and I would really like to...

Do you have any suggestions for suppliers of the CCI-35 primers???

Thanks

The fast rifle powders that do in RMC 3.5"
brass with shotgun priming, good ignition, are
4227,4759, and VV110. For heavier slugs of 870
gr, 1000gr, and 1400gr use 4227. Same
powders in plastic. I used 80 plus gr 4227
in RMC with 1400gr in NEF. But recoil wise
lighter is easier.Like Rob's brass 1000 gr one.
Perfect size between heavy and light is
870gr truncated cone nose lead slug Greg
designed.Or same weight turned slug I had made
by Bridger. Came 750gr, then I can ad weight to
hollowbase.In pic is lead 870gr..Ed

FOOBAR

Midway

Grafs

Lock Stock & Barrel

1400-grain Darwin with 65 grains of IMR-4227, a CCI209 and fiber wads
to fill the roll-crimped 3.5" Federal plastic hull got just over 1000 fps in the 14.5-pound Mossy.

That recoil felt worse than using Rob's 1085-grain brass Darwin
with 170-grains of H50BMG, started off by the CCI209 and 15-grain Blue Dot charge,
in the 3.5" RMC case, to give almost 1400 fps in an 11.5-pound NEF-er.

This even though the Mossy has barrel porting, almost an internal brake,
and my NEF-er does not, yet.

Besides the bullet weight factor, maybe the slower burn of the H50BMG gentles it a bit?

That large volume of H50BMG will also make a muzzle brake more effective,
though it won't help with the bullet weight factor.

So, I need all the recoil help I can get for the 1400-grainers,
and think 1400 to 1500 fps will be fast enough with 1400-grainers.

Dropped off the NEF-er with the smith today, for the Vais Brake and thread protector work.

Will be able to use the thread protector capping the muzzle for any shotshell, sabots, etc.
The brake will go on for heavy brass-cased loads.

I'm putting another NEF-er together dedicated to 50BMG primers and brass.
Gotta have at least two of them, need a place to keep the thread protector and the brake.
One for Nohbozo brass, and one for RMC brass.

Will commence to casting Darwins in straight 95/5 solder and silver solder,
for some lead-free cast bullets ...
will see how they measure and weigh and just how hard they are.

Anybody ever cast in zinc?

Book Review: Great book.
F.C. Ness in Practical Dope on the Big Bores:

"When jacketed bullets are not available and bullet molds at hand
it is practical to cast light weigh tough bullets of zinc.
Gas checks are not necessary, but a grease wad should be used at the base of the bullet,
or its grooves should be filled with some standard lubricant.
Weights will run about 40 percent lighter than for lead bullets from the same mold,
and it is not advisable to go to the trouble of using zinc for any bullets smaller than .30-caliber
or for lead-alloy weights lighter than 150 grains which will be reduced to about 100 grains of zinc."

A zinc Darwin: 840 grains

That fits the bill for perfect slug weight according to Ed.
'Twould be a "tough bullet" too.

Might need another mould from Brooks True-Bore for a pointier bullet,
to make full use of 2400 fps loads with 840-grainers,
good for 200-yard plains game and varmints, flat enough trajectory for that
with a better BC.

Shooting a critter with a zinc bullet:
Galvinized to death.

Likewise use of a galvinized roofing nail as a penetrator disk
on the nose of a Darwin Lead slug: Lead poisoned and galvinized all at once.

Maybe casting in zinc will cure the common cold?

Thanks Macifej...last time I checked Midway they were only listed in lots of 500, were out of stock and no backorder. LS&B, Cabelas, Midway, Midsouth, Natchez didn't list them or they were unavailable...but I didn't try Grafs...I will right now.

And thanks Ed, RIP...again. I should be getting my barrel from Rob toward the end of the month and some of his Brass BeerKegs...I also have lead slugs from 600 to 1000 gr, either in hand or on order, a couple of my aluminum slug designs with a hole down the middle to add lead for additional weight ready to turn out when it warms up a bit...and a couple of MB designs to turn, drill, and thread.

I will order up some RMC brass also and Robs brass if I can get the CCI35 primers. Wonder how my old Lee 12ga handloader set would work on the brass cases????

I just checked Grafs...$141.99/500 and out of stock...and Midway is 145.99/500 out of stock and no back order.

I must have hit a "no CCI35, no back order...I must be a "nun"...I don't want you to get nun, you don't deserve nun and you ain't never gonna get nun..." blackhole anomaly.


Keep looking.....Keep looking....Keep looking...

FooBAR- Check the FCSA.org website for suppliers. I have some IMI primers if you cant find CCI 35's. Try Natchez though.
I shot 2000gr bullets from my Borchardt 12GaFH and basically stuffed all the H50BMG I could into the case. I would personally go 180 grs of H50BMG with a 1400gr bullet.
Hate to say this but I did make 209 shotgun primer adapters for the .50BMG cases today and they do work fine. Takes some extra case prep, including drilling a .238 hole thru the primer pocket and making a press fit bushing. If thats what true Nohbozo's want I can provide this as a option. The cases can still be used with .50BMG primers. Seating the primers is easy and if the adapters are superglued in place, I doubt they will come out on reloading.
RIP- I used one of ED's cases and it held 356 gr of H50BMG filled to capacity. Will chronograph some 225 gr H50BMG loads with 1085gr brass Darwins monday.-Rob

I have been doing a bit of research in to copper/nickel casting. It seems that copper by its self is a bitch to smelt an pour into a mold, airation is a major concern plus copper by its self does not flow well. Now a 50/50 Cu/Ni smelt is way over the standard alloy's (90/10, 70/30) but it will flow very easy and its lighter than the normal alloys per foot length. The other option is aluminum casted full bore rounds but Aluminum is not in my opinion a good choice for a bullet. Aluminum is by its nature a brittle fragible soft metal. I know thats at odds but thats how it is. I feel that bullet weight retention would not be very effective with a pure aluminium bullet. A Alloy of Aluminum and say nickel might be the way to go. Both have a very close HAZ so it might be doable, copper/nickel is far easier since its a 1 phase smelt. I have yet to hear about a Aluminium an nickel alloy, so I cant say for sure. However both a Aluminium alloy of some kind and/or a Copper nickel alloy can be smelted at home, you would need a good forge tho. Nickel needs a bit more heat than copper, but its close to copper and to melt copper is not that much more than lead. Hell you can even use a microwave if you get the right bits (a micowave can smelt upto 1200°C). There is one problem tho with a copper smelt, hydrogen pickup, it will need to be deoxidized either by the use of one of the proprietary degasifiers used with nickel bronzes or, better yet, by plunging 0.1% Mg stick to the bottom of the ladle.

The other thing is, we would need a good supply of full bore mold's . Not real sure how to over come this one. I see that you can get a Blank Mold from RCBS. I dont know how one would go about getting it made into a standed round full bore mold. But if we did/or could get molds, I think a few different choices in bullet types should also be concidered. From the Darwin types through to something like my .729 Express.

Rob,
The 3.5" RMC case:
brass weight with spent 209 primer: 1372 grains
gross water capacity: 322 grains
H50BMG loose capacity: 310 grains

The 3.85" Nohbozo case:
brass weight with spent CCI-35 primer: 896 grains (Rob's case)
gross water capacity: 335 grains (Rob's case)
H50BMG powder capacity: 356 grains (Ed's case)

RMC water:H50BMG ratio = 1.039
Nohbozo water:H50BMG ratio: 0.941

Either you used a drop tube and compression, or "Rob's case" and "Ed's case" are different?

Brass weight RMC:Nohbozo ratio = 1.531

Gibs,
Your kitchen is getting too hot for me!
What about zinc?
It melts at 787 F or 420 C, 770 F according to another which is easily attained in a usual lead caster's melter.
It casts well by itself, not when contaminating lead, however.
40% lighter than lead alloys and "tough."
You can cast it in the regular lead bullet moulds. No gas checks needed for your hyper velocities.

I'd like to learn more about zinc. Where are the old zinc casters from the 1940's?

I can see doing shotgun primer adapters for guys wanting
our case in regular chambers in guns that are hard to strengthen
firing pins or hammers and plan on using 4759,4227 powders.
If a person is lenthening chambers, putting extra work into
the gun, and wants more power they will strengthen firing
pins, so they will stay with BMG primers.
Some 8ga kiln gun loads are zinc bullets running 2300 fps
plus, weighing about 800gr.So zinc can work. RG's aluminum
cored jacketed slug is great also. Guys wanting fast slugs
and low recoil will probably swamp him with orders.Ed

RIP- No drop tube, just used a powder measure and didnt level the powder so could be a few grains high but not 40! Ed's cases are definately different than std .50BMG cases and have thinner walls as well as some other dimensional differences. They dont size completely in my dies and require the 5c treatment for adequate bullet tension. Its surprising as they are headstamped Lake City and look all the world like straight .50BMG cases. They are full length cases and many of mine are shortened due to the need to trim after fire forming. Also .50BMG cases vary all over creation in water capacity depending on the manufacturer. I never ever mix lots of cases when shooting FCSA competition as you could see the effects on paper very readily.-Rob

Thanks Rob...checked Natchez without luck, but found them at Cabelas..$170 bucks...25 bucks higher than the other two sites, Cabelas is always pricier than the rest, but at least they're available. I will never use 500 primers in this application so I will stick with the 209 adapted cases, besides I'm not into pushing the envelope anymore...

I hit the FCSA site and the first dozen vendors...most had rifles, bullets, cases, accessories, etc., but didn't hit any with primers listed. Strange to say the least.

A guy could get real interested in selling his soul to buy a new toy if he spent too much time on that site...

The side effects of messing with zinc is probably the reason they're not a lot of old zinc casters...same with old welders that mucked around welding galvanized steel. "They" used to think drinking a quart of milk was all that was required to clean out the system for those lost souls. Between you, me and the corner post, asking me to weld on zinc was like asking to borrow my guns, wife or PU...it didn't set too well.

While Zinc does have a lower melting point, it has one very nasty side effect. When zinc is exposed to extreme heat, it omits a poisonous gas. Smelting with have to be done outside in a well ventlated area or in a fume extractor. I dont know how many here a fimilar with welding practises, but if any are they should remember being told to never weld over zinc. This is why. You would normaly grind the zinc (galvinize) off the metal before welding. Now I know as Ed has stated, that there are zinc projectiles around, but I'd be very surprised if they came from a backyard forge.

The safest and easiest metals to use would be , Aluminium, an Aluminium Alloy, a Copper Nickel Alloy or just plain Nickel. Out in front in the Aluminium Alloy's is whats used to manufacture window frames, its an Aluminium Manganese mixture if I recall correctly and if my memory serves me right, you wouldnt need anything special to smelt it. Personaly I still think a Copper Nickel Alloy would be better but is more involved.

There is one other option, and that would be to see if a bullet maker, say like barnes, could come to the party with a special run of full bore 12G projectiles. It would mean that only one bullet shape and weight would be available at first unless demand drove the 12GFH Bullet requirements into full time production. At the moment I cant see any other way that a supply of projectiles can be met, not by Rob thats for sure. I'm pretty certain that Rob would rather be doing other more interesting things that trying to mass produce 12GFH projy!

So where does that leave us, back to the individual user being able to cast their own projectiles, which then leads back to mold's. Molds then lead back to a matrial to use in said mold's.

Or we try to use off the shelf components like Muzzle loading projectiles and sabots that are readably available.

Please remember that while its fun at the moment to use the special darwins that Rob's made up, this is not going to be a long term solution for projectiles. So far most of the 12GFH components have been off the shelf - Converted stock 12G firearms, Barrel Blanks from some one like Pacnor, BMG Brass fire formed, RMC Brass (we have been lucky that RMC came to the party) Standed Primers and powders, but projectiles......... BIG BLANK!

I think I'm getting a headache!

RG can make them as he has the big Corbin
hydraulic swaging/bullet presses.
Heavy jkt with lead cores or jkt light ones
with aluminum cores.I just got 80 jkt
715gr hollowpoints, 80 jkt 680gr hollowbase,
and some 385gr Aluminum cored.He'll try to
get you anything you want.
Phone - 770-366-4846
There is also Dixie hardened lead slugs.
BPI and Precision reloading sells many
types of slugs.Sabots are available now.
There is a great amount of stuff out there
for 12ga and the fact you have cards,wads,
plastic cushions, etc, you can load anything
up or down and no airspace problems in the
loads.12ga is the most versatile caliber
in the world.Ed

Poo-poo on the zinc poo-poo'ers!

Simple ventilation with a fan outdoors to blow any pot fumes away minimizes the minimal risks.

Over exposure to any metal fume is bad!

Zinc is a nutrient,
You need it in your body, gotta have it or you die.
It is ingested orally and nasally in OTC cold remedies, like Zycam.

Might cause contact dermatitis for the sensitive-skinned with heavy exposure. Minimal risk.

Zinc oxide: it is the soothing agent in diaper rash cream, but lo and behold ...

Work is Dangerous to Your Health:

"Workers exposed to zinc oxide fumes may develop metal fume fever. This illness is over in a few hours, leaving the workers with an immunity to the fumes--which, however, is lost after a day or two away from the job."

Elemental zinc and zinc oxide skin contact and fume inhalation:
That is what you are dealing with in casting zinc. Easy to minimize any risk. Safer than lead which is quite safe for home casters.

Chronic skin exposure to other chemical compounds of zinc, such as zinc chromate, zinc sulfate, and zinc cyanide may cause chronic skin irritation.

"... Zinc chloride is especially toxic and corrosive and causes skin ulcers; its vapors irritate the eyes and respiratory tract and can cause chemical pneumonia. Zinc stearate powder causes a disease similar to asbestosis, with lung scarring and air-sac destruction leading to emphysema. Exposed workers have also developed anemia and intestinal problems."

Smoking cigarettes is way more dangerous than casting bullets of zinc. Keep any minimal zinc fumes from the pot blowing away from you with a fan, and risk is about zero.

Zinc is at the center of the enzyme alcohol dehydrogenase, and many other enzymes in your body. Without zinc, once drunk you will never get sober.

I will use a fan, doubt I will use gloves, just wash hands after handling zinc.

Zinc is good for your health!

Well thats fine for you Ed, I cant call RG (who da hell is that anyway) up on the phone, I'd have to sell an arm and a leg to pay for the phone call

As to Dixie Slugs, looked at their offerings, not that impressed, since most of their projectiles are only lead which are not designed for high velocitys. Plus the weight of the rounds will be to high for my liking. Also a full lead projectile is NOT the best option in a rifled barrel, causes to much lead fouling.

The BPI Sabots need to much buffering with wads to be effective since they blow out all to easy, also as we know, muzzle brakes and sabots are not a good mix, porting is okish tho.

What I was getting at is that the 12GFH needs an easy, reliable, cheap, readably available component for any one to use that will not cause any unforseen issues when reloading. After all its not like this is a standard 12G here, we are talking about a lot of potential explosive force if someone gets it wrong.

I have been doing quite a bit of searching for a good reliable projectile, so far not with any great success. Yes there are many options for 12G out there, but none that I would consider reliable for what I feel the 12GFH needs.

Different strokes for different blokes.

My latest perfection of "Rippalloy No. 2" for lead Darwins:

Casts a slug from my mould at 0.734" diameter.
Weight of slug averages 1372 grains.

Amazing coincidence is that the Rippalloy Darwin weighs as much as the RMC 3.5" brass case, exactly 1372 grains.

.734" may be a bit big even for the NEF-er rifling. That rifling handles Rob's .729" brass slug just fine.

I will size the .734" down to .730" to keep pressures down.

I don't think leading of the bore will be any problem, but I will lubricate the Darwin grease grooves.

My light bullet load:

.735" lead round ball with as-cast diameter in 30:1 alloy being .736" and weighing 571 grains.
That one can swage down easily in the bore for plinking fun, will see how fast it can go,
with liquid alox lubing and with a solid lube cookie between it and the following wads.
Accuracy? Can't wait to find out.

Heavy slug: 1372-grain Lead Darwin BHN 22 (SD = .368)
(Proposed Zinc Spitzer From Hell: .730/800-grainer)
Light ball: 571-grain 30:1 roundball BHN 16

RG's .729"/715-grain JHP might be ballistic enough and accurate enough for 200-yard shots, 2400 fps MV?

Gibs-Dixies are heatreated and they take high
velocty without leading. I shot 600gr to 3400
in Savage.No leading. RG Henson is in GA
and his bullets so far are $1.25 each,at least
a dollar less than other bullet makers making
jkt bullets of the 700 and 12ga sizes.And
in some instances 2-3 dollars less than
expensive brands. I don't know if he can export.
But he shows the way and maybe you fellows
there could get someone set up to do bullets.
If you get molds to cast your own, and do
heavy 1000-1400gr they won't be going fast
enough to lead anyway with a little tin(30 to 1)
in the alloy. Even in the long case.
I shot the alloy 360gr Lymans in
28GA FH over 2800 and no leading, and they
were not heat treated, just hard alloy.Ed

Here are the pics of the .50BMG cases and a 209 primer adapted case. I used a reject threaded case for this one and you can see where I dropped it. I may change the adapter design to include a 3/8 head so you can avoid the adapter coming out on depriming. The primer pockets are reamed to 5/16 so a std .50BMG primer can also be used. BTW pse note how a .50BMG primer is supposed to look when ARMED correctly.-Rob

That looks great Rob.
I could safely use some of those.
Love that BlueDot-H50BMG duplex load.



And here is a 5-pound 12 Gauge 3.5" smoothbore with fixed full choke, and rifle-type open sights.
It is exactly 5 pounds sans slip-on recoil pad and sling.
They don't make this one anymore, methinks.
I got it used, like new, except for having fired one turkey load previously.
Note the "Swamp Grass" camo pattern.
Could be a competitor in the ugly gun thread:



It will accept shotshell loads with RMC 3.5" brass.
I patterned it today and adjusted the sights to nuts on at 40 yards
with both of these:

Squirrel Load: 1-1/8 oz. "seven-and-a-half" shot 2-3/4" shells
or
Turkey load: 2-1/4 oz. no.5 shot 3.5" shells.

The latter load in this gun was more painful than any other 12gaFH load I have tried yet.

Will have to study that turkey load and estimate the recoil in the 5-pounder.