quote:

Any one needing new 12ga FH rifled Pacnor barrels contact me.
I have two new blanks I won't need.Sell for 2/3 original costs.
Work for Savage bolts, mossberg bolt actions, etc.
One is 1.5" dia and other is 1.36" dia, both 30" plus long.Ed

Ed,
I'll take both of those barrels if I may.
Will send you a PM.
Thanks,
Ron

Guys -here is the good news. The cases with cracked necks could all be shortened to 3.25 inches and still held 220gr of H50bmg with the Darwins loadd to 3.90 OAL. Got good neck tension by running the short cases into my Full length 12ga FH sizing die and using a 1 inch brass rod to force them to the face of the die. They still look really impressive. I'm going to shoot them this afternoon.
BTW - we were shooting some 3" winchester one ounce sabots through the NEF's yesterday and had a ball! The brake reduces recoil to a mild level and accuracy was incredibly good. I stood a few feet next to my friend and could feel the gas from the brake so its definately working even at 1400fps loads.-Rob

When you take the sabots and put in long
case with 280gr W748 then you really have
a blast, with NEF. Barrels going to RIP.Ed

Ed- Yes, That should to be a blast! can I get 20 of those straight .50BMG cases from you? PM me when you get a chance.-Rob

Rob -- PM sent.. In the Savage with 300gr
sabot, I used more of a faster ball powder.
real hairy muzzle flash. Ed

Range report number 2. Fired 8 220g H50BMG loads with .7295 1085gr Brass Darwins. These were in the 3.25 inch cases. Screwed rims in to max and assured primer was .002 from receiver and had no misfires. Shot Offhand of course and damned things shot to the same point of aim as my winchester sabots. Recoil was actually not bad at all. About the same as my .458 , 8.5lb Lott. We shot both guns, 4 rds each. I put all four pretty much through the same hole. One Darwin was finally recovered from the sand backstop after quite a bit of digging. Never found any of the others. Bullet was well engraved and looked almost like it could be shot again. A good day! Now for some 350 gr aluminum speedsters!-Rob

Ed,
Did you get the dust off those barrels?
Could you tell me what the muzzle diameters are?
I am sure you would not have one that was too thin, and if they they are straight cylinders over 30" long, I can get them turned to whatever. I will mail the check in the A.M., had to work late today.

Rob,
The 49/64" collet works well on your brass for starters, then down to 3/4" for tighter.
The 51/64" works well on the RMC brass for starters. Now I have 5 of the "5C" collets in 1/64" increments. Along with the MEC Supersizer, I almost don't need reloading dies now.

The Vais brake muzzle hole is .530" for the .510" bullet,
and so is the rest of the brake internally, except for the 1" length
of 1"-24tpi threading.
The vent holes are .375" diameter,
and there are 6 per row, 8 rows, 48 holes total.
Brake is shiny stainless and weighs 14 ounces on my cheap postal scale.
4" long and 1.5" diameter, 1.497" diameter more precisely, throughout.

If I use it on a 12GaFH (sort of like if O.J. did it),
then I will start by drilling it to .750" straight through the center.

Pics below also show the aluminum chunk that weighs 7 ounces,
with no Swiss-cheesing, but also a center hole that is about .530".

Impressive break rip.

Hey... How much would an aluminium Darwin weigh?
Rob... You already have the program... That would be pretty cool. Maybe 200 grains?

quote:

Maybe 200 grains?

330 Grains in Aluminum...

Rip they are all shined up like a mirror.
The 1.36" barrel is same all the way to muzzle.
The 1.50" has a slight taper to the muzzle to 1.4".
They are plenty heavy for whatever you need. Ed

Boomstick- I think Macifej is just about dead on.
RIP- I think that Vais break will work very well for you. You will need to find someone to thread the barrel with a lathe with either a short headstock with a spider or a lathe long enough to hold the barrel in a 4 jaw chuck and steady rest. The forearm screw mount got in the way of the easy route on my Lathes. Make sure they dial indicate the barrel for zero runout. I had a hell of a time with it when I bored my brake as it was hard to zero. I'd find a machinist rather than a gunsmith for this. Otherwise I think you will be happy with it and yes a .750 hole should work perfectly. Haqve them taper the rear of the brake so it doesnt look like a Bubba silencer.
Yes the ol 5C collet trick has gotten me through some nasty reloading problems. Works particularily well on the 12GaFH as the bases dont expand.-Rob

You might have the brake bored to thread ID out to 1/4" - 1/2" of the end of the brake. That would leave an open chamber in the brake in front of the muzzle and a shorter distance for the bullet to move through the restricted area. Supposed to work better according to one author I read on the subject of muzzle brakes and recoil reduction. One of those areas that need more testing done to produce actual empirical data, and probably one of those argumentative areas.

FWIW the bore to vent area is roughly 12X...pretty good I'd say...definitely a "Quick Dump" brake.

I would definitely go with Rob's suggestion of getting a machinist to do the installation and the way he described setting up the barrel. I can spend 2-3 hours getting my old "sloppy Joe" lathe 4 jaw, spider, tail stock and cross slide dialed in to do a chamber or install a brake...good thing my time isn't worth much and I'm not trying to earn a living of the endeavor.

Be sure to zero on the inside of the bore at both ends...and have the brake threads checked for squareness to the OD of the brake...I haven't found too many barrels where the bore ID is square with the barrel OD, and make sure the machinist doesn't put a bow the middle of the barrel while dialing it in, it is easy to do.

Any barrel can look straight but be crooked as a snake on the very small levels. A very good machinist with a precise lathe can get within some very small numbers.

Vias brakes are beauties...definitely.

Luck on your project.

Yesterday I did make a short run of Aluminum Darwin Beer Kegs. They came out exactly 350gr. Unfortunately with NEF pressure limitations, I could find no powder that would push them faster than approx. 2750fps. Thus , I'm going to increase the depth of the hollow point and try to get down to 250grs. Then we should easily exceed 3000fps with ww748 loads. Interestingly IMR 3031 now starts to look attractive with velocities near 2750 with 190 gr loads. Starting to feel like I'm reinventing the High Velocity Aluminum FP Minie Ball. Test firings tomorrow!-Rob

Glad the aluminium darwins are flying...

I see nothing wrong with 350 @ 2750

That is firing a pre expanded 416 rigby bullet!!!!

Watch out cape Buff for Satans Single Shot and flying aluminium!!!

Dont forget to recycle the aluminium beer kegs for the greenies

Boomstick- the aluminum Darwins was a good idea!With a 1.0 deep ,and I might add very impressive hollow point, they came out at 240grs. I went with IMR3031, 200grs for a quick load estimated 3000 plus fps.Interestingly you can get much more efficiency out of 145 gr of 2400, however, I wanted a full case capacity load for the 3.25 inch cases. We will see tomorrow if it doesnt rain. I have six of the beauties in front of me as I type this. Have to say the NEF is really fun! Brings new meaning to the great line from ARMY of Darkness- THIS IS MY BOOMSTICK! BTW they do sound alot like a .50BMG!-Rob

Rob and FOOBAR,
Thanks for the pointers on the brake for the NEF 12GaFH.
That NEF-er sure is more fun than hell!
I'll be talking to a capable machinist.
So, the vent-area to bore-area ratio for this Vais Brake is about 12.7 for 12ga and about 26.0 for 50BMG. Aggressive you say?

Good to hear Rob is experimenting with loads for aluminum Darwins. Beer cans and kegs are usually made from aluminum.
"Can" some aluminum pointy bullet loads be next?
350 to 450-grain HP plains-varmint loads would be swell at 2750 fps.

Here is the amount of tilt that works well on a Mossberg 835 cantilever, with the plastic hulled training-wheel loads (1401 grains at 1012 fps).
This gives the scope plenty of adjustment range. The top of the receiver is drilled and tapped for a scope mount that can be used with the iron sighted slug barrel too. A shim to stiffen the cantilever could make use of those holes:





Triple Foster Darwin slugs in the same gun with the buttstock empty of lead and epoxy will only kick like a 500 A-Square.

Just killing time until I get some Nevada brass, from Area 51.

And speaking of "Grays," I finally got a trophy gray squirrel this AM. Tree top neck shot at 12.5 yards with a .177-caliber lead pellet at about 1000 fps. No exit wound. He dropped dead, fell out of the tree at my feet. What a releif he didn't charge, as I was hunting solo with a single-shot Beeman air rifle with open sights. No PH to back me up!

Rob. What is the unit cost on the aluminium darwins?
The price of metals has gone down considerably since all the market bruhaha. I like the idea of a solid no hollow point Darwin too for max weight.

Have you done an aluminium 12 gauge scaled up version of the 50bmg VLD bullet? Should be about 500 grains! Shoot that @ 2700 for 460 WBY energy and looooooooong range accuracy.

PS I would like to see what an aluminium Darwin would do to a deer

Pics of the Darwin award winning bullets please

quote:

dropped dead, fell out of the tree at my feet

Roasted or Grilled...???

Mac,
Marinate in Italian salad dressing overnight, then bake in the oven smothered in BBQ sauce until it falls off the bone. 400 F for 90 minutes will do a pot full of tree rats. Save'm in the freezer until I get a good mess.

RIP - Some good shootin there OM1 given the cost of aluminum the cost of a Darwin is basically machine time (n and I could go faster). Approching $2.00/BULLET.
Damn they really look good too. Lets see how they work tomorrow.-ROB

Rob,
Aluminum Darwins: "Foster Lite"

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Mac,
Marinate in Italian salad dressing overnight, then bake in the oven smothered in BBQ sauce until it falls off the bone. 400 F for 90 minutes will do a pot full of tree rats. Save'm in the freezer until I get a good mess.

Hmmmm...wonder how stock from squirrel bones might be...boil a few lbs of previously roasted bones in a stock pot with herbs, spices then strain & filter for soup base later....could combine some deer bones you might have too...

Hmmm ... Squirrel and venison sure would beat the roadkill coon and possum that usually goes in my burgoo ... why didn't I think of that! Thanks for the idea!

Now to get back to 12GaFH:
Single projectile shotgun loads are legal for squirrel only during modern gun deer or elk season here in Kentucky.

Imagine a combination deer and squirrel hunt with aluminum slugs in a 12gaFH.
Better go for head shots and "barking" of the squirrels when using aluminum slugs ... or carry some regular shotshells for the small stuff. I will have to see how they pattern in a fully rifled bore.
Regular broadside chest shots on the deer should do fine at close range with the Foster Lite Darwins, but that pointy bullet is going to be needed for the 200 to 300-yard shottistry, I dare say.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Hmmm ... Squirrel and venison sure would beat the roadkill coon and possum that usually goes in my burgoo ... why didn't I think of that! Thanks for the idea!

Start with some Swansons beef stock instead of water, add a minced carrot, some chunked celery, some whole cloves, 1/4 cup of porto, sage, oregano, fennel, few bay leaves, thyme, some whole rosemary, lot of black pepper, couple TBS of Soy sauce....and whatever else floats your boat. Boil that mixture with the bones on low for about three hours covered. Take the lid off and let it reduce for as long as you want. Let it cool a bit then strain/filter...fridge or freeze for later.

Just did a pot with beef and turkey bones which had been previously BBQ'd. I use a lot of smoked Hungarian Paprika and Cayenne too...

With the no hollow point aluminium darwin say 375 grains you could hunt squirrel to cape buff with a $300 Satan Single Shot and 25 cents worth of metal.

Pretty impressive.

You must have some dumb squirrels up in L.A. Boomer...down here they'd see that big aluminum keg leaving the barrel, see the trajectory, and step aside....that things way too slow for a Diego Park Rat...!!

Yep, I have eaten more chicken-fried squirrel than any other kind.

Standing by for 12 Gauge From Hell handloading coordinates.
Start theme music for Star Trek ...
Where no man has gone before ...
These are the voyages of the Starship Nobozo

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Macifej,
More than I want to know! That chef stuff is getting a bit too gay for my tastes.
Scotty! Beam that stuff up!


Standing by for 12 Gauge From Hell handloading coordinates.
Start theme music for Star Trek ...
Where no man has gone before ...
These are the voyages of the Starship Nobozo

I forgot you're out in chicken-fried steak country...

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
You must have some dumb squirrels up in L.A. Boomer...down here they'd see that big aluminum keg leaving the barrel, see the trajectory, and step aside....that things way too slow for a Diego Park Rat...!!

2700 fps... that must be some squirrel to sidestep that!

At 3000fps . even a Mendocino speedster Squirrel is not a match! They are too busy looking for Eagles to sidestep a 12 ga FH lite. Doom from Above! -Rob

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
At 3000fps . even a Mendocino speedster Squirrel is not a match! They are too busy looking for Eagles to sidestep a 12 ga FH lite. Doom from Above! -Rob

True!! I was thinking about your 1000 fps flting bus version...

That's OK....I have something I've been working on for you 12 GA's that will cause a paradigm shift in your shotgun worlds...

PM incoming....

Rob. If you make any more AD (Aluminium Darwins bullets... not Anno Domini "Year of our Lord"...that would be sacrilege), could you weigh one before the hollow point was put in? Thanks.

Boomstick- Cant do! drill is first step of pgrm. Just add 25grs.
Macifej- Pse do illucidate! Nothing makes me happier than a new idea! Particularily if its not mine!-Rob

Ok...

At 375 grains that would be a death hammer on anything but elephant I think.

-A eco friendly "death hammer" too- Biodegradable in2000 years or less.-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
True!! I was thinking about your 1000 fps flting bus version...

Dammit Macifej!
Are you trying to insult Rob?
He has never stooped to 1000 fps with a 1400-grain Lead Darwin. That is my invention, and he has been kind enough to call his brass beer keg by the same name, "Darwin."
That too will be a great natural selector, on both ends of the gun!

Foster Lite Aluminum Darwin:
Double Foster Brass Darwin:
Triple Foster Lead Darwin:

You know I'm not really reading all of this stuff..just skipping over and cherry picking.

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
You know I'm not really reading all of this stuff..just skipping over and cherry picking.

RIP invented the Darwin and I just made it from brass. Its RIP's invention and a damn good one it is. Made from AL its got its place in our wacky world- good idea Boomstick. This 12ga FH stuff is just too cool! Macifej- I need to know what your thinking of? More mayhem possibly?-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
-A eco friendly "death hammer" too- Biodegradable in2000 years or less.-Rob

Who said Rob was not "Green"

Being that the AD would be a non deforming flat point solid it should penetrate quite well. It would act like an pre expanded medium bore bullet.

Well maybe some day you can fix that bug in the program to have a dual flat point max weight AD bullet.

What is the diameter of the hole?
could you alter the Aluminium Darwin hollow point to stuff in 500 S&W pistol bullets to alter and vary the weight to add 275 up to 700 grains?

It would be a "Natural selection" to add any weight pistol bullet you wanted