The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Any fresh thoughts on the .400 WhelenGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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 Boom time for you to go back and reread the last 23 pages.  Heck who needs the vast majority of cartridges out there. When 2-3 would handle everything anyone would need to shoot. The 9.3x62 rebore to 410 is the 411 Hawk. Since the 400 Whelen thanks to many of the guys posting in this tread has become pretty std. So easier to get reamers, dies etc. Yes I designed and built my 400PDK. longer case more potential capacity touch more velocity. I love it and will never stop using it. That said if I wanted a new 400 other than my PDK I'd look to the 400 Whelen. Gets it done without the extra powder of the Ruger Remington or Rigby. Now I'll sit back and watch.  As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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Hi Boom stick I think Ram Rod covered it from a practical aspect. This whole deal of making up non-standard cartridges is just for the joy of doing it. But it is silly!!! Fact is just buy a 30-06 and 458 in Remington 700 and hunt the entire world period. Or if you really want to be practical... Buy a 375 H&H and use one gun and hunt everything with it. Fact is I'm a little sick when it comes to messing with rifles and ballistics... Just can't quit and actually I don't intend to because it is one of the few things I really enjoy. So when I'm not as tired as I am right now I'll discuss the pros and cons of my present 400. If you own a gun and you are not a member of the NRA and other pro 2nd amendment organizations then YOU are part of the problem. | |||
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I agree. The 400 ticks all the right boxes. Heck, it would be easy enough to have a reamer and dies made to make a 9.3×64/400 . But, WHY. ??!! Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Boomy's fertile Mind, produces many exercises in futility. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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The reality is that by the 1920's the Germans and Brits had produced every combination of bullet diameter and case capacity that is possibly needed from a practical aspect. The only real changes of any note is propellant and bullet technology and even in those aspects there is a lot less that is new from a practical aspect. I had my present rifle built just because it is fun. It is a little historical and I really wanted to have a rifle that I felt was fine for the biggest game that wouldn't have enough recoil to make shooting it a chore. The 400 Whelen filled that nitch from my perspective. Things I like are the fact that the rifle built on a 30-06 size action is small enough for me to carry it one handed with my hand around the action, thumb under the scope in comfort for long periods. I like the position of the safety on the CZ and I really do like the set trigger. I can't focus with open sights properly anymore but with the 26 inch barrel an the pop up peep I can do passable shooting with the irons. the rifle is heavy at 11 lbs all up but I have never found that to be a problem and it really helps to steady the rifle when it is time to shoot and that's what it is all about in hunting. About the 416 Ruger. Last year I hunted Asiatic buffalo in Northern Australia. I didn't take a gun. In fact I had originally intended to take this CZ 400 on that hunt but as with all custom rifles in my experience the actual delivery date was about twice the original estimate. In camp they had two very seasoned cz 375's and hand loaded ammo with Woodleigh bullets. They also had a Ruger 416 Alaskan that was brought over with a representative of Ruger who tried it out on buffalo. There was no ammo left for it though. They did have an ancient reloading press, and old scale, 416 Ruger die's, 400 grain Woodleighs , Woodleigh reloading manual, fired cases, primers and I think AR22O8.  I was in heaven! The starting load Showed 2100 fps. so I loaded 1 or 2 grains more and off we went. The load worked just as on would think it would. It was very decisive. Now I was not shooting trophy bulls but these were still large animals. I think the 416 Ruger is just great that said loaded to full potential out and 8 lb rifle I would only shoot it when I had too. that calculates to 67 ft/lbs recoil. That is past my " hey that was fun " level quite a bit. What would I do different..... Really nothing.... except, maybe, instead having spent so much money on guns equipment reloading etc over the years I might have bought a 30-06 and a 458 and spent the rest of that money on hunting trips. All in all the 400 Whelen trip has been fun and I appreciate all the great information on this site. If you own a gun and you are not a member of the NRA and other pro 2nd amendment organizations then YOU are part of the problem. | |||
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If you own a gun and you are not a member of the NRA and other pro 2nd amendment organizations then YOU are part of the problem. | |||
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So true! Just wanted to get ELS personal perspective and experience. As I said, I am a fan of the Whelen carts, 25,45,38 and 400 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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I am also having to look at my recoil threshold. Thinking about loading 400gr bullets @2150 fps hopefully that will make shooting my 458 fun again. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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OK, I am finally gathering parts for a build. Have a donor Springfield Mark I with Lyman receiver sight on the way, and a decent piece of walnut. Will order a Shilen No. 4 contour barrel. Hope to find a place to borrow or rent a Michael Petrov-spec reamer. One question is how many of you with .400 Whelens have left them set up with iron sights? Thinking with an ivory or sourdough front, this may be a useful set up in many of the places one would take a .400. Also would eliminate the need for now of having the bolt altered and safety replaced. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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Bill, I alternate between a Lyman 48 and a Redfield 2 3/4x PCH on my 400. Right now it wears the scope. Last year I took my cow moose with the Lyman 48 on it. With just a few exceptions I have irons, either, receiver sight or open sights, on my rifles. My favorite iron is a receiver sight with a sourdough or patridge style front sight. els said it's hard to stop messing around with loads and ballistics. I certainly don't need any more rifles but they keeping finding their way into my life. With that comes the need for dies and brass and bullets and load research and range time and finally a trip to the field. I'm afraid I'm stuck in that deadly loop. Despite other rifles coming to live with me, the 400 Whelen is here to stay. It will be with me if and when all the others have gone on to other caretakers. Mart "...I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprize, and independance to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks." Thomas Jefferson | |||
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Appreciate the thoughts, Mart. Think I will go with the irons platform initially. Bill There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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With this recent experience with the 400 I am going to pass my 416 Rigby, 450 -400, 450 Ackley one or two 375 H&H's and 458 Lott down the road. I've been there done that. I think for what hunting for large animals that I have left the 400 will just do very well. If you own a gun and you are not a member of the NRA and other pro 2nd amendment organizations then YOU are part of the problem. | |||
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 The Wise Old Man's Battery: 400 Whelen for the big stuff and a 6.5mm of some sort for the rest. The 6.5 can vary from "6.5 Creedmoor ilk" to "26 Ripmoor ilk" depending on the dance agenda. They are all most efficient, having high whomp to whump ratios, just like the 400 Whelen. Whomp on target divided by whump on shoulder is directly proportional to Hunter Happiness AND Longevity.    Rifles In Progress by Riflecrank Internationale Permanente aka Squirrel Killer Pet Wildcat Certifying Authority and Tree Rat Control Specialist NRA Life Benefactor and Beneficiary to the Fourth Degree https://home.nra.org/ | |||
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The Wise Old Man's Battery: 400 Whelen for the big stuff and a 6.5mm of some sort for the rest. The 6.5 can vary from "6.5 Creedmoor ilk" to "26 Ripmoor ilk" depending on the dance agenda. They are all most efficient, having high whomp to whump ratios, just like the 400 Whelen. Whomp on target divided by whump on shoulder is directly proportional to Hunter Happiness AND Longevity. very much so! If you own a gun and you are not a member of the NRA and other pro 2nd amendment organizations then YOU are part of the problem. | |||
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I could probably thin mine down to just a .22 rifle, a .223 or 22/250, a .257 Roberts a 30/06 and a 400 Whelen. But why on earth would I do that! | |||
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RIP; your a very smart man. !! Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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The only thing I use iron sights for anymore . Is summer time bear protection. For hunting I use scopes because I shoot better with them . I vastly prefer carrying a non scopes rifle. And there's no reason to beat a scope up throwing the rifle around . . The P14 +17 Enfields have pretty much the toughest irons available. But, that's only foot if using either of those receivers. Otherwise . I stay with express rear and banded + hooded front . Shallow v and fire red bead. Oh, and a 223 , a 6.5 Creedmoor and a 400 Whelan. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Finally got my Grantie Mountain Arms takedown back, for the second time and 16 months late .... The load is 59gr RL 15 with 400gr Woodliegh RN, shoots like a dream and the recoil is very to,arable. It has a 21 inch barrel and gets 2125 FPS. Right at MOA with a Swaro 1-6x24. | |||
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Now onto the he next rifle. I came across a Sako 85 Grey Wolfe in 30-06 and traded for it. I want to build an all SS 400 Whelen for a trip to Cameroon in April 2018 for Bongo and forest ele. I need a good reasonable gunsmith to barrel it and get it to feed for me. Any suggestion? My last guy was a disappointment. The idea would be to do all SS and have Robar do one of the crazy waterproof finishes on it. Basically a rifle you can hose off after a day in the rain forest and keep going. | |||
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Rell You should post a picture of your new 400. Sounds like you have a great load, 2125 fps and accurate with a 400 grain bullet is definitely deadly. If I were to recommend a gunsmith I'd have to say talk to Kevin Weaver, Weaverrifles.com He did my 400 Whelen on a Springfield action. Good luck with your rifle. | |||
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Rell; sounds like you need a stainless Ruger M77 Hawkeye or Mk ll . My 458 has been submerged in saltwater and or covered in salt spray. For years. It doesn't have a speck of rust on it. And as I lived in a rain forest And sometimes there was snow on the ground and I was busy working, I didn't hose it off afterward most of the time. I learned to occasionally pull the fireing pin assembly out and clean it real good and spray it down with Corrosion Block. Mine has a Shilen barrel on it that is just as corrosion resistant as the Ruger action and bolt. If you go with a 30 mm tube scope you may want to have the rings cerrakoted as I don't think stainless Ruger dovetail rings are available. The Ruger action and synthetic stock would make a great 400 Whelan. As I have gone with the 375 Whelan Ackley Improved at this point and have a military Mauser actioned one . I'm going to have one built on a stainless Hawkeye action. If I lived on the coast I would have a 400 built. But for here in the Interior, The 250 gr TTSX BT at 2550 fps is a good load. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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The benefit of the Ruger action over all the push feed actions is it copys the old military bolt actions in simplicity of design. Has very few small Springs or parts . It has a trigger that is super easy to adjust and only has 3 parts to it . And the primary part is big and robust. The safety is Very robust and when put in full safe , It's safe ! Anyway, enough of my advertising Ruger's. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Rell, that load gives you just over 4,000 foot-pounds of energy, enough for you to be able to use the rifle in the big bore shoot in Libby, Montana, in July!  There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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I wish I could just buy a factory Ruger 400 Whelan. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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I retrieved my 400 a while ago from Andy Hawk. I couldn't live with the cock on closing so Andy installed the Dayton unit,I love it. Also another crossbolt,polish the chamber,slick up feeding. The rifle is ready and our -00 stuff is changing so range time is near. A new hip has got me on slow mode for a bit more too! I will report soon with target's and chrono #'s. I tend to use more than enough gun | |||
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I wish you could too Glen! I tend to use more than enough gun | |||
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Bill I took my 400 Whelen to Libby last year (2016), was very fun to shoot with those guys and I'm pretty sure I had the only 400 Whelen there! I shot 400 grain bullets at 2140 fps. Below is a picture of the load I was getting ready for that shoot. I have been shooting a 2-7 Leupold on it, I'm thinking of running it open sights for the next shoot.  | |||
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That is a very nice target, my friend! What is the length of your barrel? As to sights, there were a lot of red dots on the rifles at that BASA shoot in the thread Gerhard posted. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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A prairie dog accurate , elephant rifle . Thats impressive ! My 9.3 fits me very well and the express sights line up somewhat automatically . But the 1-4 Vortex with the V Bright reticle , floating center bead . is faster. And more precise. Jim, hope the healing up goes real good. Glad to hear your 400 is on good buddy terms with you now ! Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Pretty impressive you are only 300 fps short of a .416 Rem. | |||
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Would it be an unforgivable sin to drop a Shilen-rebarrelled 1903 Springfield into a laminated Boyd's stock for a hunting rifle that may likely see some weather in its career? There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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No more of a sin than my 1903 in a synthetic.   | |||
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I ran a Hogue on my 400PDK for the first several years I had it. Now it has a piece of Bastogne on it. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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My plan is to eventually stock it in wood, this was a quick way to get it up and running..... | |||
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What you need is someone to cut you a semi. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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Dave, who made your synthetic stock? There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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I don't think it would be one bit. With a Boyd's I've found it necessary to use an under barrel recoil lug and to use at least 2 crossbolts in the action mortice. And one at the top of the wrist makes it better. Epoxy bed it and give it a little gap at the tang and rear of the guard. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Manufacturer unknown. I saw it on Ebay but it had ended before I got to bid, contacted the guy and he was a Colorado Parks and Wildlife guy who met me for a face to face sale on it. He said they bought it from Cabela's for his 1903. Some say Bell and Carlson but I'm not sure. Ramrod, when I'm ready and have a good piece of wood I know this guy who does that sort of thing..........  | |||
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Maybe I posted this already...? The guy who did Precision Shooting's gunsmithing column, McPherson, wrote that the .284 win ctg was the best ctg for wildcatting once you went past .35cal on the 06 case. I had a standard Whelen and an AI'd Whelen about 10yrs ago. The AI'd shoulder was very pronounced and worthwhile. Much bigger than .366 and you lost almost all aspects of shoulder. Want headspace on the rim? Got to be some issues like that going to .378 or .400.... Yet the .500 body diameter and rebated .476 head does give you another .024 to work with. The .30/284 and .30-06 are accorded interchangeable data in Hodgdon's 26th. So... Not only do you get more shoulder to headspace on, you get more room in the magazine for longer bullets... More versatility for bullet seating. Then there's the .338 Ruger magnum which is a bit more than a .338-06. neck that up to .416 and you have a .416 Ruger American or a shorty... I go where the bullets are... .338, .375, 6.5mm. .224... Got to admit though, being able to shoot 10mm handgun bullets in my rifle would be intriguing. Then again, you likely already have a .357magnum. The .358/284 would really shine in that combination. If you live in the lower 48, .38sp for pocket gun, .357 snub for carry, 8-3/8" N frame for handgun power, and basically an updated, improved .35 Whelen in the .35/284. There is that 200gr RCBS flatnose bullet mold that will really shine for rifle or handgun. You may recall there was a .38sp in 200gr factory load... how's them for fresh thoughts? | |||
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Actually they're not fresh at all, just the same, tired, old regurgitated pablum of the "it don't have enough shoulder" crowd. It amazes me that despite the scores of pages, on this web site alone, of positive experience with the 400 Whelen, the alleged lack of shoulder continues to be brought up. And always by those with absolutely zero hands on experience with the cartridge. On this site alone there have been thousands of trouble free rounds fired in the many 400 Whelens belonging to those of us objective enough to own one and do the research and load development. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if the 400 Whelen was the single most discussed wildcat on this site. The fact is the 400 has enough shoulder to headspace upon. Try pushing a .454 diameter brass tube through a .430 hole and let me know how well it works. Without some significant mechanical or hydraulic assistance (more than can be generated by closing a bolt) it ain't gonna happen. Just how far out does one need to seat a bullet? 400 grain bullets seated to the max length a long action magazine will allow still do not encroach on the case below the base of the neck. Unlike most Whelen detractors, I've actually had all three of the big Whelens, the 35, 375 and 400. Load development and practice for all three pushes my round count north of 2000, with never a failure to headspace, never a failure to fire. I should also note I load for a 10.75x57, a round with far less shoulder real estate than a 400 Whelen. The numbers of failures with it are equal to the total above (zero if you weren't keeping up) But then I, as do the other 400 Whelen shooters on these page, understand the principles of reloading. As an aside, 10mm bullets are .400-.401 and the 400 Whelen uses .411 diameter bullets. "...I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprize, and independance to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks." Thomas Jefferson | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Any fresh thoughts on the .400 Whelen
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