The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Any fresh thoughts on the .400 WhelenGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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That's awesome !!! Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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My .400 Whelen is "in the mail" from dpcd. OH BOY!  There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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Congrats Bill on the 400. Hands down the finest big game cartridge ever developed.  "...I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprize, and independance to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks." Thomas Jefferson | |||
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Mart, only took me 5 1/2 YEARS since starting this thread to finally acquire my own. Sheesh!  There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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I have gone in an other direction on my 400 Whelen and an offering dies and lots of expanders up for sale or trade. I will make you a great deal. Jim I tend to use more than enough gun | |||
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Yes, I have no doubt that a 400Whelen is a good cartridge, but a 416Ruger is available in over-the-counter rifles and can be loaded for a little more punch or distance should the desire arise. In general, as diameter increases, a case that may have been great for smaller diameters becomes less and less optimal. The -06 cases, 67grains water, seem best around the .27"-.33" diameter range. At 40-caliber, a person can benefit from cases over 90-100grains water. As an example of this principle, consider the .243 case. It is great up to about 26-28 caliber. Ironically, it starts to lose its adequacy and versatility around its parent diameter of 30 cal. The 308 may be good with lighter bullets, but it is too small to be versatile with heavier bullets around 180-200 grain .308". Even more so, when a 243 becomes a 338Fed or 358 Win. Ditto with the -06 cases, as they cross the 35-36 caliber thresholds and head up to larger diameter. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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Quote all the ballistics and theory you want, but to be one of the cools guys you have to have a 400 Whelen. It's like being the shooting/hunting fraternity's version of the most interesting man on the world."...I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprize, and independance to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks." Thomas Jefferson | |||
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Tanzan, I understand your position. There are better and more powerful cartridges out there in new factory rifles that don't cost much money compared to the custom route. I just have a different perspective. I have an emotional and sentimental attachment to the 1903 Springfield. It was manufactured by a U.S. government arsenal to the highest standards of the time. Can you imagine the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT making excellent military rifles that can become world-class sporters in the 21st century? I can't. It is, excuse the French, a fucking miracle that our worthless government built wonderful rifles for well over a century and it is a great privilege as an American citizen to own and shoot one. Second point is my father was his designated squad sniper when in the 97th Infantry in World War II. He was issued a scoped Springfield which he used in combat in Germany and the Sudetenland in the closing months of the war. After the war, the first thing he did was buy a 1903 Springfield to be his hunting rifle, and he used it the rest of his life. Next point: Townsend Whelen and Griffin and Howe. I have an abiding respect for Bill Ruger and a grudging respect for the minions that are guiding his brand today, but geez, Whelen and G&H? They are very nearly Mount Rushmore material. So I am able to shoot a genuine 1903 Springfield in a Whelen/G&H chambering and get as good or better performance than the .450-400 NE? GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME, MISTER!  There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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Yes, Bill, I would happily go on a hunt with a 400 Wheelen. the 416 Ruger is just a money issue. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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Tanz, I hope you took my post in the spirit I intended it -- friendly. Here is the 1903 Mark I Springfield as built by Tom Jackson. Barrel is 24 inches, by Douglas. Stock is the Boyd's drop-in. Phosphated finish, as this is a hunting rifle not a looking rifle. It comes in at 8 1/2 pounds and feels very lively in the hands. I will add a Decelerator pad to give me just a bit more LOP. Going back over the posts in this thread, it looks like I will want some H4895 to go with the Barnes 300-grain TSX bullets I have at hand, and I may need to neck ream the dang QualCart .400 Whelen basic brass. Will keep an eye out for some plain vanilla .35 Whelen brass to give the Cream Of Wheat treatment.  fullsizeoutput_930 by ComeWatson, on Flickr fullsizeoutput_92f by ComeWatson, on FlickrThere is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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Absolutely. Friendly. You all put that pretty rifle on "long-term loan" and I'll try it out here in TZ.  +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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Very nice rifle Bill! Welcome to the 400 Whelen group, club, herd or whatever. I too went the route of the 1903 Springfield on my 400 Whelen project for the following reasons: 1. It is what Townsend Whelen would have done. 2. The 1903 is truly an Americn classic from battle to Sporter. 3. My dad hunted for most of his life with a 1903 Springfield I've not had any of the difficulties or drama with Qual Cart brass in my 400 that some here seem to have. I trim mine to proper length, then size it in my 400 sizing die and load. No drama. I think the key is trim to appropriate length first. I also "bump up" 30/06 brass with ease.... I lube the inside neck, run a .338 expander in it then run it in my 400 die and I have perfectly sized 400 brass albeit slightly short but very useable. Ready to load full power 400 loads in, NO CREAM OF WHEAT LOADS NEEDED. IMR OR H 4895 is great in the 400, I hear CFE223 is as well but I've not tried it. TAC works great with 300 grain bullets for me. | |||
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Bill; that looks perfect ! At 8.5 lbs it should be an ideal balance between packability and shootability. I have the same stock on my 9.3x64 . It points like a finger with the express sights and with the scope. Is that a step barrel ? Or am I just not seeing the pic correctly ? Did you have an under barrel recoil lug installed ? The 300 gr TSX should be a peach in that ! Will you be trying any 400 gr bullets ? I need to research CFE223 see if it is a good powder for my 375 Whelan A.I. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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I agree the .416 Ruger is a better, more versatile cartridge than the 400 Whelan, but I disagree with your statement about the .308 Win...my X Bolt shoots 180 grain bullets at 2750; at 500 yards, I can hit a small plate every time. Yesterday I shot it at 600 in two different wind conditions and would have killed any deer. On the other hand, past 600 it a lot tougher to connect than even my Swift shooting 80 grain AMAX bullets, to say nothing of my Edge or Lapuas. I like the .243 a lot, but when it comes a all around hunting, the .308 has it beat hands down - I will be using my Rem 7 in .308 next month on a deer hunt in MN. | |||
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Waterrat: As brown bear guide, what do you carry? | |||
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CTF, yes, a step barrel. I will let dpcd 'splain. I honestly didn't look closely enough at the stock channel to pay attention to a recoil lug, as I was so eager to put it together and handle it. I will look. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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I tend to use more than enough gun | |||
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Great rifle, Bill. Regarding the personal significance, very cool, and it is the perfect gentleman's DGR.  Hopefully Peter Cardona has fixed the problem with 400 Whelen brass. It was a real thing at one time, as documented in this thread by roughone and yours truly. We sent the brass back and Pete returned it in working order. No problems with what we got on the rebound. May you not have to neck ream or neck turn.  | |||
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Bill Be sure to let us know how it shoots... I have no doubts you will love it. | |||
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You're welcome to that load. It looks hotter than what one would expect from average rifles, especially if one uses a shorter barrel 20"-22". +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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You are correct in that the velocity surprised me - I assumed 2660 (Hodgdon manual data) but my LabRadar says otherwise. Load is 45 gr Varget with the bullet seated just off the lands. Bbl is 24 inches. | |||
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Bill, Congratulations on a fine rifle and I enjoyed the sentiment you expressed. You are going to so enjoy the 400. Now we'll have to schedule an induction ceremony to the 400 Whelen owners association and teach you the secret handshake. I did the cream of wheat method for a while until I got one of CH4D's expander dies. It works great. I anneal the brass before hand and it takes it up to .416. Then it's just trip through the FL die. Either method works well but I anneal before either if the brass is not new. "...I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprize, and independance to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks." Thomas Jefferson | |||
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What do you 400 owners think on barrel choice? I'm looking around for a barrel, and I see 410, 411 and 412. Seems to be more available bullets in the 410 and 411 diameters If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter! | |||
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Mine wears a .411 Shilen. Michael Petrov recommended I go with that and I have not been disappointed at all. Great barrel and a good shooter. "...I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprize, and independance to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks." Thomas Jefferson | |||
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MileHighShooter I have the same barrel as Mart, in my eyes it was an excellent choice. My rifle shoots .410 and .411 bullets to the same point of impact. (Woodleigh and Hornady 400 grain) This barrel also shoots a real deal sub 1" 5 shot group too (100 yards with a 2-7 Leupold). | |||
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I've had two Shilens, the first went to Waterrat and was a #4 contour, six groove crome-moly. I'm still shooting a #5 contour, stainless eight groove. Shilen's dimensions are a good match with the Petrov chamber and both are 1.5moa or better with preferred loads. | |||
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PWS, Did you notice much handling difference in the #4 vs #5? Shilens website shows the #4 as .375 and under only If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter! | |||
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MHS, No, didn't notice any difference but that was largely negated by my "Chop and Chrono" test above. The #5 is now 21" long so it's pretty handy. Given a choice, however, I would go with a #4 in the 22-23" range. My rifle is a Stainless Classic Win M70 with the factory Tupperware stock, a 1" Pachmayr Decelerator, Leupold 4x in steel Leupold rings and bases and weighs 8lbs 8oz unloaded. BTW, anyone who thinks the .400Whelen "doesn't kick much" is a heck of a lot more tolerant of recoil than me. No surprise though, 400gr@2150 is serious power! | |||
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I believe mine is a Douglas #4. I love it. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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PWS; I agree that a 400 gr bullet @2150 isn't nuthin. But. Didn't you have a 600 OK ?  Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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roughone and I found Shilen to have the right specs to do the Petrov-G&H chambered rifles: IIRC, .411 groove, .404 bore, and 1:14". Townie's original 400 Whelen (1923) was .409-grooved. A .410-grooved Douglas is a good barrel for a 400 Whelen. Shilen may have changed their mind since I got my two Shilen barrels, but a few years back they were doing their .411-grooved barrel as light as No. 4 Sporter. I got one in stainless, No. 4 Sporter, that is 0.660" muzzle diameter at 25" length. I also got a chrome-moly No. 5 Sporter that is 0.725" in muzzle diameter at 23.6" length. I think Shilen's No. 4 Sporter contour is ideal for the 400 Whelen, whether the 400 Whelen-Petrov-G&H 3.4" of 2003, or the 400 Whelen-Petrov-Berry 3.6" of 2013. Synchronicity: Two rifles, identical weights: Ruger Hawkeye with No. 5 Sporter, 23.6", and factory (35 Whelen donor) walnut stock, integral scope bases: 7 lbs 14 oz dry weight Winchester M70 Classic Stainless Featherweight with No. 4 Sporter, 25", factory (270 WCF donor) Tupperware stock, QRW bases: 7 lbs 14 oz dry weight  Rip . | |||
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Well I am headed off the Zimbabwe again in a few days. one rifle hunt my CZ 400 with Woodleighh softs and solids. I'll give a little report when I get back. If you own a gun and you are not a member of the NRA and other pro 2nd amendment organizations then YOU are part of the problem. | |||
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RIP, roughone still have that reamer and making guns? I noticed some of these posts are several years old. Took all my bits of free time three last 3 days, but I FINALLY made through all 27 pages!! I'm thinking I need to make a 400 happen. It'll make a nice American partner to my metric near twin, 10.75x68, that I'm in the process of putting together. I bought 20 QC shells from someone here on AR, and I've got a few spare M70's that need to be freed from their unfortunate lives with .277 bores If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter! | |||
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MileHighShooter, You will have to contact member roughone on that. Rip . | |||
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Getting closer. So after my recent second move in less than three months, I discovered that I am missing the box that had all my shellholders, lube/sizer dies and other critical small reloading goodies. So I grabbed a Lee shellholder at the local gun store and used it to full-length size a few pieces of Qual Cart .400 Whelen basic. Now to trim ... but no. Those bullies at Hornady built their rotary trimmer so that it will not accept either Lee or RCBS shellholders. So now I am waiting for a package of odds and ends from Grafs so I can trim my cases and finally build some loads. Brought home a fresh pound of H4895 to light underneath the Barnes 300 TSX. Thought I would start at about 58 grains and work up. One thing I noticed about the Qual Cart brass is that Winchester large rifle primers are a rather loose fit. Anyone else experience this? Sure hope I can do the rifle justice with iron sights. I am in need of cataract surgery in my shooting eye. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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I suppose that I could do some reduced 416 Rigby loads to see how I might like a 416 Ruger. But my CZs would be too comfortable. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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Kevin Weaver of Weaverrifles.com has a correct 400 Whelen reamer. His shop is in Peyton, CO. He is however Sheep hunting at the moment. | |||
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I know he does good work but last time I looked he waa really pricey If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter! | |||
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Milehigh: Shoot dpcd a PM. He has a nice, new Manson reamer to Petrov's specs and he is very, very easy to work with. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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Bill, I wasn't too sure about the barrel pattern he uses, but looking at yours I like it. Guess I was expecting more pronounced steps with the Oberndorf pattern If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter! | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Any fresh thoughts on the .400 Whelen
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