quote:

Originally posted by waterrat:

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
That would be absolutely sacrilegious.
Springfield = fantastic
Win, Rem, Ruger = good choice
Mauser, Tikka, Blaseer = bad choice should be a metric cartridge.....

Okay maybe that's harsh, I guess any .400 Whelen is better than none.

Snellstrom How do you feel about a 1917 Remington Action? It's being fitted in the stock as we speak?

IMHO the p14+p17 are the best. Aka they hold the most bullets and can be fed with stripper clips for herd shooting.

It's finally come together, PWS fit the 400 barrel I'd purchased from him a year ago to a 1917 Remington action that was sourced from Ketchican. My skills are nil some it took some time to fit and bed to the original stock. It's got weaver mts for now and a 1X4 Leupold (Hogplex)??
My starting (maybe finishing) load is 56gr IMR 4895 for getting on the paper, it shot real well with 300gr Hornady's so I loaded 4 400gr Woodleighs this morning. The 1st shot was 2130 fps. The next 3 made this group which could probably been better as I was fighting glare and the Hogplex is a busy recticle. A bit of time Talley's,more bullets,and brown bear testing next. Many thanks to PWS who made this work for me!!!! Does anybody want to buy a 458?

Awesome! Another Alaskan 400.

Waterrat
Nice rifle! It is great to see so many people supporting this historic cartridge.
I can't wait to hear how the 400 grain Woodleigh does on Brown Bear at 2130 fps!
Keep us posted.

My buddy that has been using my 416 PDK in Alaska for years. He has one load for everything. Caribou up to and including Brown and Grizzly. He is using a 340gr Woodleigh at 2430fps (I think). He feels he has a touch longer range and has never needed more bullet weight.

I would think the slower 400 would be plenty.

Jim; Thats awesome!! On an overcast day they will all be touching :-) . How long is the barrel. Thats some good velocity for only 56 grains. ! Must be very mild shooting.
I put the Spruce King barrel back on my Ruger action , so I probably don't need another 458.
Really great . You do defy the synthetic stock /guide rifle rule with aplomb :-)
Congratulations!!

So, have any bears , or other succumbed to the 400 Whelan's here yet this spring. We already have bears out and about in the Copper Basin. Not lots, because there aren't many here.
I've put the TSX loads in my 6.5 Creedmoor which I always have with me. And have my 9.3×64 and 458 ready to go to work eliminating calf killers . But do wish I had a 400 still .

I'm reporting this post to the CDC. It's a virus. I just received my first 400 Whelen. Built on a Granite Mountain Arms M98 take down. It has three barrels 270'Win, 9.3x62 and the "dare I say it" original 400 Whelen.

This round is unreal 2175fps from a 21 inch tube and shoots an honest 1 inch group. 60gr RL15 and Woodliegh 400gr RN using Fed GM Match large rifle primers. Within 10fps of my SxS 450-400 3 inch with the same bullet.

I mounted a Swarofski 1-6X24 6i scope on it. 5 round magazine, this things is just supper fun.

Thanks for keeping it alive and for the inspiration to have my little thumper built.

Sorry just retread that, 2125fps.

Fell; Congratulations . As I sit here noticing how thick the willows are here. It would be a great place for a 400 . But, for the summer anyway what I have will have to do with what I have. Not that there is anything wrong with a 9.3×64 + a 458 Win . But, the 400 would be nice. Have you tried any other bullet weights yet ?

I got my 400 out yesterday.
Took the scope off and sighted in the irons, it is shooting great! Golf ball sized group at 50 yards with irons.
Now I'm testing the repeatability of the quick release rings.
I plan on bringing it to the Safari Rifle challenge in Libby MT next month.
The load I've settled on is 400 grain Woodleigh, 58 grains of IMR 4895 and in my rifle the average fps is just over 2140. I use Federal and CCI primers in Qual Cartridge brass.
The rifle is not picky it shoots 400 grain .411 diameter Woodleighs and .410 Hornady 400's all to the same point of impact.
I have shot a few 300 grain Hornady bullets through it using 63 grains of TAC for fire forming loads but I think I'll mostly shoot 400's in it.
I may try resizing some .416" diameter Speer 350 grain bullets down to .411" and see how they shoot, I think that weight would be great.

I now have my CZ 550 in 400 Whelen from the CZ custom shop. Built along the lines of the CB 375.

I shoots the swift Break away solids into 3" at 100yrds. Am taking it to the Nyea Nyea, in Namibia for a non trophy bull ele in a few days. I'll get back to let you know how it works.

I haven't posted on this thread but got lots of help by reading it.

quote:

Originally posted by els:
I now have my CZ 550 in 400 Whelen from the CZ custom shop. Built along the lines of the CB 375.

I shoots the swift Break away solids into 3" at 100yrds. Am taking it to the Nyea Nyea, in Namibia for a non trophy bull ele in a few days. I'll get back to let you know how it works.

I haven't posted on this thread but got lots of help by reading it.

Excellent.
Ele with a 400 Whelen.
Is that a CZ 550 Medium?

You can beat a classic load for the 450/400 NE with the 400 Whelen, and that is quite adequate, eh?
What bullet are you using?

If a picture is worth a thousand words, an equation is surely worth a hundred.

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I am using the new swift Break away solids. we will see how it works. I have used the 450/400 on elephant before and it worked fine. still I 'm a little nervous about the lack of huge horse power in the 400.

That said I every year older I get the less I like getting whacked with recoil and I have proven that I shoot better with less thatn 50 ft lbs of recoil and bullet placement trumps horse power.

I'll let you know how it works in about 25 days.

quote:

I have used the 450/400 on elephant before and it worked fine. still I 'm a little nervous about the lack of huge horse power in the 400.

There is no "lack of horsepower" on the Whelens part, especially if you are comparing it to the classic 450/400. The 2 are nearly identical.
A 400 grain bullet pushed to 2150 fps seems formidable to me.

I think so but proof is in the pudding. I'll try to get close and shoot carefully.

Should be back July 8th and I'll report.

I know what you mean. I wouldn't say the 400 lacks power. But , bigger carts give more. Kinda like bulldozers, A D9 just plain pushes more than a D8. But, ya still have t be able to operate it right to get the advantage.

Cold Trigger Finger my point was that he said he had used a 450/400 on elephant before and it worked just fine then said that he was a little nervous about the lack of huge horsepower in the 400 Whelen and when you compare the 2 they are equals.
I agree a 458 or a 470NE has more horsepower than a 400 whelen but if you compare it to a 450/400 there is no difference.
A 400 grain .410 or .411 diameter bullet launched at 2150 fps out of a 450/400 can in no way be a better killer than a .411 diameter 400 grain bullet launched at 2150 fps from a 400 whelen.
I wish the guy good luck on his trip and can't wait to hear how his safari goes, I always love to hear the 400 whelen reports on game!

Ya, it could be he will be in a different situation, closer bush , Kali elephants and the lack of the 2nd barrel instantly available. . But, your right, they r ballistic twins.

OK before I even get started some one is going to say PICTURES! I haven't posted pictures in 4 or 5 years I think and I just don't think I can get around to going through the learning curve again.

That said, I just finished the hunt with SMJ Safaris in the Nyae Nyae conservancy area. I want to give a little report if my jet lag will allow it. I only took one rifle the 400 Whelen that I have built by The CZ custom shop. I am a unrepentant ballistic experimenter and some time's I think that I hunt more for the experimentation that it affords me than any other reason.

I had the Whelen built for curiosity and the fact that my ability to tolerate recoil and still shoot adequately has deteriorated over the years. So I had the rifle built to try to have a truly big game capable rifle that would deliver 40 ft/lbs recoil or less. At that level I can shoot with out flinching. That worked out great. The rifle scope sling and 4 rounds oof ammo weigh 11 lbs. With my service load of 400 grain bullet , 58 H4895, standard primer @ 2150 out of the 26 inch barrel it develops 38 ft/lbs of recoil. I find that just about perfect.

I used 2 bullets. Swift break away solids that I swaged from .416 to .412 and some very old Hornady 400 grain soft point round nose bullets that I also swaged down to .412.

The primary game was a non trophy elephant bull. That is a very old bull with small tusks. That worked out fine. I counted 34 bulls the first day. I could have shot one on the first afternoon but didn't want to end the hunt that quickly so walked away. The next morning we tracked an very old fellow from a water hole. I wish that I could report that I made a perfect brain shot but I shot to far forward on a side brain shot. While I didn't perform perfectly the 400 did. even with not perfect placement on the huge old bull the bullet shot all the way through the animals skull and caused him to sag at the shot. The PH backed me up with a 416 Remington with a shoulder shot that broke the shoulder and stopped the bull. I shot him twice more. Once through the upper shoulder and then another side brain shot that sealed the deal. Both swift breakaways shot through the elephants skull. My PH who specializes in Elephant hunting said he has only seen on other caliber shoot all the way through the skull of these huge elephants and that was a 458 lott with nosler solids. The bottom line is that the 400 with good solids is handily adequate for any land animal.

After that we went to the SMJ game farm and I proceeded to do some management hunting with the Hornady softs. I harvested:

1 kudu longest shot @ 167 paces

4 impala

1 giraffe . Male that was over a ton. I used solids on animal. A frontal chest shot penetrated into the pelvis and was lost.

1 black wildebeest

1 Eland cow

The only soft I recovered was the one in the Kudu. It was a hard going away shot that went into the left thigh exited and then entered the abdomen far back and transversed the entire abdomen diagonally and was found in the hide on the of side lower ribs. The shot just flattened the Kudu.

Take away is that the 400 is adequate for any hunting any where up to and including elephant. I think if would be just perfect for buffalo hunting. It shoots flat enough even with the 400 grain bullets to shoot out to any range that I will take a shot at an animal as my self imposed limit is 200 yards at an unwounded animal.. with the 300 grain Hornady spire point is is more than flat enough. With the soft Hornady bullets is just Thunderously effective on plains game! My plains game PH noted that he did zero tracking for wounded game. Every thing we shot except the Giraffe went down with in five yards of being hit.

I think we have a winner!

Most excellent.

Not bad!

I need to o something with my plans for a 38Whelen

Never really heard much about it but it seems like a great cartridge and easy on the shoulder compared to some ..

Els: That is great !! Thunderously effective. That sounds perfect. Thank you for the report. I am not familiar with the Swift Breakaway Solids. , Do u have a picture of them ?

quote:

Swift break away solids

Never heard of them. Didn't see them listed on their site.

this is the only picture that I could find. I bought one box of .416 at the Dallas safari show. Then called them directly and bought a second box.
http://www.africahunting.com/t...swift-bullets.19882/

yes the 400 old hornady bullets may have even been softened when pushing through the sizer die but every thing that I shot with them just wilted and there were quarter size entrance and silver dollar size exits except for the Kudu and that animal had big enough entrance wound that there would have been a blood trail if he had moved.

quote:

this is the only picture that I could find. I bought one box of .416 at the Dallas safari show. Then called them directly and bought a second box. http://www.africahunting.com/t...swift-bullets.19882/

Interesting. Wonder why they don't list them on their site?

I don't know. When I talked with Bill Hober the the owner of swift he said they were having some problems with getting the plastic tips for the bullets. That may be slowing production down.

[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i142/Ernest_03/break%20away.jpg"> [/IMG]

oh well posting pictures is just totally beyond me

[URL= ] [/URL]

well don't ask me???? I am not sure how I got the pictures to come up but these are the two recovered bullets from my elephant. the one on the right was fired side brain at very close range while the elephant was down. ransvered the entire head and was found in the sand several meters away buried in the sand.

bullet on right was the first side brain shot and was found in the skin on the other side of the elephants head.

[URL= ] [/URL]

very very old guy on his last set of molars

Els : see, You got er!!!! I ve always said that if an old logger can post a pic on here. Then Anyone can!
Can't even comprehend how a company could slow production because of a little plastic ball. But, anyway. That is some great penetration. ! I was wondering if when swaged down the full diameter of the base of the bullet would be reduced down to the point the parasitic drag of the rifling would jack up pressure. But it appears that the front of the bullet still clears the bore or top of the lands.

With that kind of penetration, it's pretty hard to justify more recoil. Even with swaging down, the bullets still retained their integrity.

yes I carefully measured the bore riding section of the bullet and the bore of the my barrel which is a McGowen and there was no engraving of the bore riding section.

The plastic piece is not a ball it is apparently a pretty sophisticated shaped piece.
Thanks for the replies.
I am pretty sold on the 400 Whelen. I could happily hunt for what's left of my hunting days with just the 400.

Congrats on an excellent hunt.
Not to play devils advocate (but I will), would you've just as happy with the 416 ruger? Is it the nostalgia aspect of the cart? Is it the number of carts down? What would you do different in the build looking back? Would a rebored 9,3x62 to 410 be better and cheaper? What do you like most about your new gun? I am a Whelen fan as well but curious about your perspective and experience.