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I never fired this 7mm Rem. Mag.:  | |||
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Just looked at it like a piece of hard rock candy:  | |||
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I have a notion to install the 28"-long Shilen on this Ruger, with secondary recoil lug added, and shoot it before crowning. Use the perfected, standardized LongCOL load for 5 shots, chronographed. Then use a hacksaw to cut off one inch at a time, right there at the range,  and just stop at 2500 fps MV with the 400-grain HV. Then have it crowned and Wisner "African" sights and barrel-band installed. Prior to first shot: Crossbolts fore and aft of the magazine well, and behind the barrel lug. Axial grip bolt set in epoxy, drilled from the rear of the gripcap. Cannibalize a Hogue stock for pillars to set in the epoxy bedding. After the crowning touch to the barrel, pun intended, finishing touches to wood and metal finish also, pun intended. The donor rifle is currently all a glaring satin stainless finish right now. The floorplate is steel, satin stainless to match. I doubt I will be needing any engraving or gold inlay, but some checkering on the laminate stock, or clear epoxy grip panels with sand sprinkled on it, while the epoxy is still wet, might do.  Rip ... | |||
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Welcome back RIP; we've been keeping on task. I've had a few of those brown laminate, stainless Ruger's that I got for friends. Should have got a couple for me at the same time. I really like them . I think that's a great idea starting at 28" and chopping till u get the velocity you seek. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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CTF, If you come across a MkII in 7mm Rem. Mag., you will do yourself a service by grabbing it. And you will do the world a service by re-barreling it to just about anything else with a .375 H&H or a .375 Ruger case head, especially a .458 Win. Mag. which feeds fine as frog hair in mine. I am sure a .375/.300 Win. Mag. aka .375 Epstein would be fine too. Rip ... | |||
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. Yup. But Really, I really like the 7 mag Now a pos 300 or 06. I can't abide !!!!! The 300 would get rebored to a 375/300. And the 06 would become either another375 Whelen A.I. or a 400 Whelen Petrov. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Today the 458 Win is an OK round with the newer powders it can be pretty reliable! However. The 458 Win Mag should have been a 458 LOTT to begin with, and it wouldn't have had the problems it had when it first went on the market! ................................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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cold-finger, you made a typo: "pos" goes with the 7RM.  +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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No no . 7 mag = good 300 =  But the brass is good to make into something useful !Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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RIP must be busy. The 458 started life as the 450 Watts. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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OK, maybe a compromise: when you want magnum functionality in an under-30 caliber you get a 270 Win. And when someone wants a 300 - - - they should get a 338. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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CTF, Good point. MacD37's Captain Obvious comment was not so obvious. Yes, the .458 Win. Mag. "shoulda-coulda" been a .450 Watts Magnum. Then the .458 Lott "woulda-coulda" never been a necessary evil, marking time until the new powders odsoleted it. Faint praise from MacD37 though. The .458 Win. Mag. is more than just "OK." The .458 Win. Mag. is (Tony the Tiger voice) GREAT! But you really must get your thinking on the 7mm Rem. Mag. straightened out. Heed instruction from 416 Tanzan on that one. Rip ... | |||
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A long way to go to hit page 300. _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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jwp475, Thanks for helping us onward to not just 300 pages, but 304 pages and beyond. Rip ... | |||
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Here is an anecdotal barrel length versus bullet velocity comparison for the .375 Ruger. Admittedly the .416 Ruger should lose less velocity per inch of chop, and the .458 Win. Mag. even less, due to the greater expansion ratio of the Mighty .458 Win. Mag. My two rifles in .375 Ruger were a 23-Incher and a 20-Incher. 23" African chrome-moly barrel, and 20" Alaskan stainless barrel, both straight factory from Ruger. 2007 vintage Hornady factory softpoint ammo was used, all fired at 77*F and 10-shot averages for each rounded to nearest 1 fps, 5-yard instrumental velocities, no correction to MV: 23" barrel: 270-grain SP-RP (Spire Point-Recoil Proof)... 2782 fps 300-grain RN (Round Nose)... 2658 fps 20" barrel: 270-grain SP-RP... 2682 fps: Exactly 100 fps slower.  300-grain RN... 2587 fps: 71 fps slower. Rounded to nearest 1 fps: 270-grainer: 33 fps loss per inch of barrel loss from 23" to 20". 300-grainer: 24 fps loss per inch of barrel loss from 23" to 20". Yep, the .458 Win. Mag should have nowhere near as much loss as that. Another anecdote coming up: As previously noted, I have shot a .416 Ruger 20-Incher (Alaskan stainless) for a 25 shot string with factory 400-grain DGS (solid). Sd for 25 shots was an excellent 10 fps. That was in 2009 at 76*F. 5-yard instrumental velocity was 2337 fps (BC = 0.319). MV would be just over 2350 fps. I have since acquired a 24"-barreled Ruger No.1 (stainless/laminate) factory .416 Ruger. Will shoot some of that same ammo, near 9 years later, whenever I get a day at the range in the mid-70s*F range. That will be a 4-inch barrel add-on. I'll do that while I am working up some 2400 to 2600 fps loads with the .375/250-grain Sierra GameKing, as another set of training wheels for the 400-grain HV in The Great One. Taking turns to let the rifles cool is fun. Summer is coming. Rip ... | |||
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Funny thing about that Hornady .375/270-grain SP-RP as listed in the Hornady manuals: 2010 (8th Ed.) the BC was 0.370 2012 (9th Ed.) the BC changed to 0.380 2016 (10th Ed.) the BC is still 0.380 In a 20-Inch barreled .375 Ruger that's close enough for training wheels, if slowed down to 2400 to 2600 fps MV. The Spire Point-Recoil Proof feature on Hornady bullets is like the Mag Tip and Grand Slam on the Speer bullets or the Protected Point on the old Nosler Partitions. The .375/270-grain SP-RP by Hornady was still available last time I checked. That's one more potential trajectory trainer for the .458 Win. Mag., another feather in the cap of THE GREAT ONE. Rip ... | |||
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https://www.gunbroker.com/All/...3&View=1&PageIndex=1 Some great prices on 458 bullets and some other diameters for your other kittens. You can't get to 304 pages without bullets  577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Here is a copy/paste from DoubleTap's 375 Ruger, Barnes 270 gr TSX load and 416 Ruger 350 TSX load 375 Ruger, appears about 53 fps, per inch. 416 Ruger, about 37 fps, per inch. Caliber : .375 Ruger Bullet : 270gr Barnes TSX LEAD FREE Ballistics : 2825fps - 4700 ft./lbs. - 23.0" bbl. Ruger 77 African 2665fps from a 20" Ruger Alaskan Caliber : 416 Ruger Bullet : 350gr Barnes TSX Ballistics : 2550fps - 5055 ft./lbs. - 24.0" bbl. Custom CZ 550 2400fps from a Ruger Alaskan 20" bbl
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 At that rate, my 24" .416 Ruger Ruger No.1 might do +2500 fps MV with factory 400-grain DGS, which I doubt. That is .458 Win. Mag. territory! We'll see. Rip ... | |||
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I bought some of DT 250 grain Partition Hold they advertised at 2800 FPS. Shot them in my 338 Win mag with a 29” inch barrel and barely got 2600 FPS. Advertise$ and actual aren’t always close. _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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DoubleTap strikes again! That is a particularly egregious departure from reality! To paraphrase Kipling: "Oh, Advertised is Advertised, and Actual is Actual, and never the twain shall meet." That 2007 vintage .375 Ruger ammo was ADVERTISED by Hornady, bless their hearts. For 20" barrel: 270-grain SP-RP: 2840 fps MV Actual = 2694 fps MV 300-grain RN and FMJ-RN: 2660 fps MV Actual = 2605 fps MV That is pretty good of them with the 300-grainer. A factory loaded 20"-barreled .375 Ruger beats most 24"-barreled .375 H&H rifles with the 300-grainer. My Actuals above are from 10-shot averages of 5-yard instrumental velocity (77*F) corrected to MV by use of the BC specified by Hornady. Of course any "Advertised" .458 Lott and .458 Win. Mag. data will be similarly scrutinized whenever possible. Rip ... | |||
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All of the DoubleTap .416 Ruger loads are VELOCITY-ADVERTISED with 20" and 24" barrels. The bullets are 300gr TSX, 350gr TSX, and 450gr Woodleigh WC IRCC. What I DO RECALL CORRECTLY is that all three loads show exactly the same velocity difference for the 4" barrel chop: -150 fps of MV That is fishy. We would expect the heavier bullets of lower MV to lose less MV with the chop. Now, I would not put much store in their ADVERTISED MV for the .458 Lott with 350-grain TSX in a 25"-barreled CZ 550 Magnum: 2875 fps Their ADVERTISED MV for the .458 Win. Mag. with same bullet and barrel length: 2500 fps The old CZ .458 Lotts were built to old CIP spec, which was a 2.8" case length with the SAAMI .458 Win.Mag. throat. That could explain 2875 fps with the 350-grain TSX. Or it could be a case of the short-throated latest, newest spec (SAAMI and CIP) version of the .458 Lott, plus the usual industry standard of exuberant ADVERTISING, +100 fps or more. I rate Hornady advertising as not too bad, usually only 50 to 100 fps of MV exuberance. Call it about 75 fps on average. We can write that off to tighter barrel and powder lot variation. So as not to be disappointed in general, I always peg ADVERTIZED MV as 100 fps greater than actual. The DoubleTap .458 Lott load with 500-grain Woodleigh Weldcore has ADVERTIZED MV of 2350 fps in a 25"-barreled CZ 550 Magnum. So that might be 2250 fps MV ACTUAL or less! We all know we can beat that with a .458 Win. Mag. in the same rifle, for ACTUAL. We can even use the longer, monometal 500-grain TSX and the .458 Lott will eat the dust of THE GREAT ONE. ACTUAL. Rip ... | |||
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I think it must be your on the wrong side of the devide on the Hornady velocities. I averaged 2702 fps with the 270 gr Hornady factory ammo from 20" barrels and 2300 fps from the Lott, CZ rechambered 458 Win. Granted the 270 gr wasn't going 2800+ . I wasn't really expecting it to tho. 2700 with the 270 gr by and large accomplished the bulk of what a 375 would be needed to do by me. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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You said "from 20" barrels" meaning an averaging from more than one? I am referring to only one, a 20"-long .375 Ruger barrel, the one on my rifle. Yep, your 2702 fps with the 270-grainer is significantly different from the 2840 fps MV that Hornady was claiming for 20" barrels in 2007. ACTUAL did not meet the twain, again! Rip ... | |||
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 Life just got simpler. All I need to have done to the above is screw off the 7mm Rem. Mag. barrel, and screw on a Shilen 28"-long "458 x 14 Stainless Match, #5.5" blank, and chamber to .458 Win. Mag. Then start shooting for a 28" baseline velocity with 300 to 500 grainers. No barrel lug required in the HS Precision stock with full metal endoskeleton. Rip ... | |||
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This stock has a barrel channel too big for the skinny barrel, needs a fatter barrel:  That stock was picked off the shelf of Sportsman's Whorehouse in Lexington, KY years ago. It is good to finally have a use for it. Working my way to page 304. Rip ... | |||
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 That's a Good look in 7 mag barrel !  My current 375 Ruger. Is my 4th I used to buy them cheap and as soon as I wasn't excited with one I would sell it. Then after about 7 years since my last one . I got this Guide Gun. I haven't chronographed this one yet. But my max normal working loads and factory 270 gr ammo all came out to 2700 fps average. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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We’re not going to make 304 pages at this rate. Come on guys step it up. _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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jwp475, Admit it, you are addicted to this thread.  Another barrel length anecdote for consideration. I just could not stand it any longer and had to go shoot the 24"-barreled .416 Ruger (Ruger No.1) to compare to the 20"-barreled Hawkeye Alaskan. 400-grain DGS factory load: 9-7-2009, 20-incher, 77*F, 25-shot average (St.dev. of 10 fps): 2337 fps @ 5 yards, corrects to MV = 2350 fps Same lot of ammo fired almost 9 years later: 4-26-2018, 24-incher, 65*F average of 10 shots (St.dev. of 10 fps): 2388 fps @ 5 yards, corrects to MV = 2401 fps 69*F average of 10 shots (St.dev. of 11 fps): 2388 fps @ 5 yards, corrects to MV = 2401 fps That puts to shame a difference of 150 fps claimed by Double tap for the 24" versus 20" .416 Ruger ammo they load. 37.5 fps loss per inch of chop my arse! It is closer to 13 fps per inch (12.75) with the Hornady factory ammo, .416/400gr DGS in the .416 Ruger, from 24" to 20" of barrel shortening. Bigger bores and moderate velocities, high expansion ratios, fast powders: Less velocity loss. The .458 Winnerchester Magnum wins again. Rip ... | |||
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This thread is warming me up to the 416 Ruger more and more. Amazing. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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Yep, a .416 Ruger is arguably almost as good as a .458 Win. Mag. and a little easier on the shooter. The .458 Win. Mag. is certainly more interesting to this handloader. .416 Ruger with 24" barrel: 2400 fps with 400-grain DGS factory load. .458 Win. Mag. with 24" barrel: 2500 fps with 400-grain HV handload. To some, the .458 Win. Mag. is just a bigger bore. Pun intended. Rip ... | |||
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The Shilen barrel ordered on 3-29-2018 arrived on 4-27-2018. The No. 5-1/2 contour (Shilen's "Medium Weight Varmint," a sporter-type contour) is 28.15" long (71.5 cm) and weighs exactly 4-lbs 0-oz, as .458-cal, 14"-twist, 6-groove, stainless, uncut blank. It will be shorter and lighter eventually. Rip ... | |||
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I dunno, one of the beauties of the 458 is it is very flexible. It will putt along at high 45/70 velocities or ROAR along at Lott velocities. There is a lot of middle ground that still brings lots of snort with a bit more user friendly recoil. Even in 3.34" length. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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The .458 Win. Mag is definitely the bigger bore. I have recently swapped an unfired, short-action M70 Extreme Weather of the pipsqueak 300 WSM chambering, for an unfired M70 Alaskan in .375 H&H, walnut and chrome-moly. I have two of those now, and one of them might get re-barreled for .458 Win. Mag. 3.6" COL, after the stainless/synthetic Ruger M77 Mark II gets done. It is an obsession. A 3.6" .458 Win. Mag. will eat the lunch of a 3.6" .458 Lott with current SAAMI throats for both. I have accepted my CZ .458 Lott re-chambering of a .458 Win. Mag as OK. It has the .458 Win. Mag. throat remnant and anything the short-throated .458 Lott can do, the longer-throated .458 Lott can do better. Rip ... | |||
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 Factory DGS 400-grainer MV: 2350 fps at 77*F Barrel is actually about 20-3/32", less than 20-1/8".   Same ammo in the 24" barrel (exactly 24" measured with a dowel in the barrel, action cocked and closed) MV: 2401 fps at 69*F So that all adds up to a Ruger No.1 being a tiny bit more than 4" shorter overall than a Hawkeye with same barrel length, and same LOP. Call it almost exactly 4 inches. And probably less than 12 fps MV loss per inch of barrel shortening between 24" and 20" with a .458 Win. Mag. using 500-grain bullets. The Ruger M77 Mark II and the 28.15"-long Shilen .458 barrel are with the smith, with instruction to leave the barrel as long as possible, no cutting or crowning at the muzzle until after initial chronographing. Rip ... | |||
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When re-barreled from .375 H&H, this donor rifle will make a nice .458 Win. Mag.: Assembled in Portugal, disassembled and re-assembled in Kentucky.  I'll use one of those high-class leather slip-on buttpads on this former safe queen, and a rod through the grip, and a barrel lug with third crossbolt, and pillars with glass bedding ... Wisner "African" rear sight, barrel band sling, 25" barrel ...  Rip ... | |||
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The Remington Core-Lokt .308/180 grainer has a BC of 0.383" which is close enough to serve a purpose. I can get them for about 30 cents per bullet. That will save me almost 2 dollars per shot if I pretend like my .30-06 with 180-grainer at 2500 fps is a .458 Win. Mag with 400-grainer at 2500 fps. Other benefits are that such a "Trajectory Trainer" may prevent me from developing a flinch, and would make a fine deer load and varminter. Rip ... | |||
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Looks like a good plan. Too bad Hornady doesn't still make the 6.5 mm 140 gr Rn bullet. Other than length of bolt throw . That bullet will whistle out of a 6.5 Creedmoor with ease. And about 41 grains of powder. Great use for an old keg of H414/Win760. If a guy Had a jug of it laying around. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Nice stock on that Winchester ! Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Thanks, CTF. That rifle was assembled in Portugal. It weighs 7#11oz and has more interesting wood than my other one. The other .375 H&H Alaskan I have was assembled in South Carolina, wood is mighty plain, and the rifle is 1 oz lighter. Made in USA entirely.  My stainless/synthetic Alder Queen is basking at the Gunsmith Shop and Spa for Wayward Rifles. Rip ... | |||
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