The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores 458 winchester magnumGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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BTW, Alf, thanks for helping us closer to page 40.  Rip ... | |||
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I appreciate the welcome...it's good to be here. Consider this my contribution to extending this thread. | |||
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I was fortunate to have inherited that rifle. It was built by Bill Atkinson, who was basically Bill Ruger's go to gunsmith in the Prescott area. It was a simple conversion and no doubt an exploratory look at whether or not to produce them. But the introduction of the 375 Ruger made it even simpler. The rifle however is still a camp favorite, now wears one of Bill Ruger's favorite stocks, the infamous "canoe paddle" stock and has even earned the nickname "Pointer" , as pretty much everything it gets pointed at dies ! Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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But back to the subject of the 458. While I wrote a rebuttal to Ross's infamous diatribe on the 458, the editor refused to run it as he claimed that Ross's piece had generated the most hate mail in the history of magazines and that he was (wisely I might add) not interested in starting a range war. But in the piece I quoted a section from page 333 of John Kingsley Heath's book " Hunting the Dangeous Game of Africa" "as far as elephant hunting was considered, the 458 Winchester magnum Model 70 pre-1964 rifle was the best thing to come on the market since sliced peaches in the proverbial lunch box. I enjoyed tremendous success with the rifle hunting all species of big game for many years. I would rate the 458 Winchester Magnum Model 70 pre-1964 as one of the greatest developments in hunting rifles in recent times " Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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Lighter weight mono’s are superior to the 500 grain cup and core soft’s and solids. _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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I remember that article. Made me so mad I couldn't think straight. Swore off reading Ross's article's for a couple years. He apparently didn't get along with Art Alphin either and commented poorly about the A-Sq rounds which at that time I was having great fun shooting my 500 A-Sq Hannibal. So I was doubly chapped at hom Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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When I built my first 458 in 86 iirc the only not too wimpy lighter than 500 gr bullets for the 458 were the Barnes 49k jacketed RNSN. When they could be got. Kodiak Bonded Core was making bullets with a Corbin Hydro Press at the time also . But his stock disappeared so fast once he had bullets made that I never got to try any. It was truly a Great day when the first Barnes X bullets became available !!!!!. They got bought up fast at the shops in Sitka that carried them. But 500 gr Hornady RNSN seemed to always be in stock somewhere or other. So lots of them got shot up. Lots of young guys destroyed lots of factory and some aftermarket stocks on 458s in Southeast Alaska. I put an MPI fiberglass Whby style , with the strongest build that Doc offered. On my first 458 on a Sako action. Bedded it with ACCRA GLASS Steel Bed. And shot the heck out of it. Never broke that stock. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Phil, Last I heard, Ross had moved to KY.  My fellow hillbilly would not enjoy my critique of his article on the .458 Winchester Magnum either. Regarding the Ruger M77 Mk II rebuilt to .375 H&H for Dave Scovill:
Good to know that she is still kicking. That .375 H&H rifle, Pointer, weighed 7 lbs 4 oz in the factory walnut stock, with the factory open sights installed, taken off the donor .338 Win. Mag, no ammo or scope. Might be an even 7 pounds in the Zytel Canoe Paddle stock. As rugged a stock as there is. Points like a wand, eh? A magic wand, with the power of life and death. I need to figure out how to move that Ruger ejector back. Doesn't look as easy as on a Winchester M70. The Ruger looks like it has a true Mauser MF ejector/boltstop Any gunsmithing "pointers" on that would be greatly appreciated, pun intended, but information sincerely desired. Rip ... | |||
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It looks like the majority of the extra room was gained simply by grinding the ejector and bolt stop back. And I am sure the thinness of the remaining stop is one of the reasons they chose to take another route. Although the steel is undoubtedly tough and seems to have not suffered under some pretty rough usage. And the bolt throw, like most well broken in Rugers, is amazingly slick and quick. All it takes is a quick flick of the wrist . Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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Some handloading and artificial media testing of the 400-grain X-Bullet by Finn Aagaard was published in HANDLOADER No. 174, April-May 1995. .458 Winchester Magnum, Winchester brand, factory rifles used: Rifle A: Winchester Pre-'64 M70 with 25-inch barrel. Rifle B: Winchester Pushfeed M70 with 22-inch barrel. Throats: Free travel with the 500-grain Hornady softpoint (3.34" COL) was 0.71" in Rifle A, 0.89" in rifle B. For this specific bullet specimen the "free travel" is the same, to two decimal places, as what I call "jump to lands" from case mouth of maximum length brass. "Jump to lands" is measured or calculated to 3 decimal places (thousandths of an inch), and is irrespective of bullet ogive variation. Velocities are instrumental, 12 feet from Oehler 35P, not corrected to MV. Temperatures varied from 65*F to 70*F during data collection. Average: 70*F 400-grain Barnes X-Bullet R-P brass case CCI-250 primer COL: 3.340" or less, assumed. Finn did not specify LongCOL loading on this load, though he did write of an experiment elsewhere using 500-grain bullets. Accurate 2015 powder charge of 74.0 grains: Rifle A: 2368 fps KE = 4980 ft-lbs Rifle B: 2335 fps KE = 4842 ft-lbs On the penetration test, using "resistant medium," velocity was 2358 fps for the 400-grain Barnes X-Bullet. Of the 10 bullets used in the .458 Win. Mag. it was the shining star. One .30-06 load was tested, which must have been Finn's "control" for the test medium instead of the BB gun used on ordnance gelatin. Here is the "resistant medium" section of Table III, an excerpt for book review purposes of that issue of HANDLOADER: (The * in the table below indicates handloads, others are factory loads.)  Book review: An excellent book, and an excellent author, Finn Aagaard. Rip ... | |||
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Thanks. That is about all I could surmise from the Dave Scovill article. I might try that one of these days. In the M70 the ejector "blade" is the bolt stop, only one thing to grind, and shortening it really does not affect the strength for the bolt-stop function. Shorter can be stiffer and stronger sometimes. I am going to have to take a Ruger M77 Mk II boltstop/ejector assembly apart and see if I have to grind on two separate areas. Page 40 with next reply? That last page just flew by. Rip ... | |||
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I love the mono expanding bullet, lighter weight means higher velocity and flatter trajectory. Effectiveness is top notch to boot. _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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.458 Win. Mag. with 400-grain Barnes X-Bullet, Finn Aagaard data from previous page, AA-2015 powder charge of 74.0 grains: 25"-barrel length (Rifle A) with 0.71-inch "free-travel/jump-to-lands" throat: 2368 fps KE = 4980 ft-lbs 22"-barrel length (Rifle B) with 0.89-inch "free-travel/jump-to-lands" throat: 2335 fps KE = 4842 ft-lbs Sure, the Pre-'64 and Pushfeed M70 barrels might have had differences in lands and grooves, finish/wear, other chamber dimensions, etc., that could affect things other than the minor throat-length difference contribution. But this suggests only 11 fps velocity loss for each inch of barrel shortening from 25" to 22". So the 20-incher might loose only 55 fps versus the 25-incher? Rip ... | |||
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I think Phil and Finn agree, despite Alf. Rip ... | |||
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I am still at loss why a 458 Winchester with 3.6" magazine is a better thing than the 458 Lott/450 Ackley. Also, Ron is misleading the average bloke who might be thinking of a 458 Win because it is the same as the 458 Lott .... when glancing at this thread. Misleading advertising  What if his new 458 Winchester does not have a 3.6" magazine? He is fucked | |||
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Let me say this about your statements. I guess the following pretty much wraps up this 40-pages long thread on the Almighty. Are there any better cartridges than the .458WM? : Nope. Are there any worse cartridges than the .458WM? : Yes, a bunch.  Is the .458WM a perfect cartridge? : Yes.  ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ColdBore 1.0 - the ballistics/reloading software solution http://www.patagoniaballistics.com | |||
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I think that a perfect rifle cartridge needs a shoulder. The shoulder says that the cartridge has more power than absolute minimum, that it is investing in its job of pushing the bullet through the bore. And McGuire is right, the cartridge needs to do this day in and day out, rain or shine, in a 3.4" magazine. The bullet needs a Lott of push to be a game field dominator, and a beltless, shouldered case can get this done out of a 3.4" hanger. So the question remains, at least until Ruger comes out with an over-the-counter 458Ruger (which I'm not expecting due to the attractiveness of the 375 and 416 Rugers in NA), how easy is it to make a 458 Ruger? Can a person simply run a 416Ruger reamer into a 458Win chamber? On brass, can one simply neck up a 416Ruger case? +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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I'm the opposite. I love belts. Wish all the carts that I shoot had belts on them. Don't see any gain to Not having a belt. Other than some things were manufactured without belts. Like the 9.3×64 and the 375 Ruger. I think the whole beltless craze is just that. Crazy. Same with shoulders. I've got some 458 brass that I've reloaded around 20 times . and I've never annealed it. It still works fine. No split necks like most shouldered carts would have after that much work without annealing. Since it is from several different manufacturers , I don't think it is a situation where 1 brand was superior to another. Just a most excellent case design. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Cold finger, Think what a straight-walled 270 would be like.  Then think about a straight-walled 30-06 or 308. They would all be anemic, maybe pushing things at 2200fps. Shoulders are for men, what more can I say?  Hey, it's not my wife's shoulders that slay me. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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The potty-mouthed intellectual potentate from down under has mentally passed gas again! And it is the same mental flatus as before! ("Fart" used to be a proper medical term, but "brain fart" never was.) Mikey, Being the Weatherby fan you are, surely you can understand that the 3.6" .458 Win. Mag. is like a "Weatherby-ized" 3.6" .458 Lott. By happy chance the .458 Win. Mag. has the capability of velocity and accuracy at amazing levels with LongCOL loading. Amazing indeed considering that the Winchester engineers never intended to, but they made it possible when they short-shrifted the James Watts design, and topped it with a very Un-Nitro-Express throat. And regarding the second cloud of Mikey's mental flatus: Anyone with a 3.4"-boxed .458 Winchester Magnum should be very happy. I am going to build one as my full custom, a Ruger M77 Mark II. I load two 450-grain Flat Nose solids or softs in the bottom of the box: That is a double tap in reserve, +2300 fps and over 5200 ft-lbs KE, and a far more effective double tap than any of the old 450 Nitro Express water under the bridge. That is with 3.340" COL. For comparison, a 3.485" COL with the 450-grain North Fork FP solid gave 2411 fps MV with 81 grains of AA-2230. The lead-off double tap is the 400-grain HV at 3.450" COL, 2500 fps and 5550 ft-lbs KE. The first-fired cartridge goes directly into the chamber, with the second one resting on the top of the box, bullet tip barely touching the feed ramp, with the bolt closed over it. It is immediately ready to slide into the chamber after the first one is fired and ejected. Could recoil do anything funny to that cartridge on the feed ramp? We'll see. I already know how to open up a Winchester M70 Classic from 3.4" to 3.6", all by myself, no parts needed, just grind the ejector/boltstop and pop the spacer out of the back of the box. Voila! I am learning how to do that to a Ruger M77 Mark II. That requries a new sheetmetal box and follower, from the RSM .375 H&H, and trickier work on the ejector and bolt stop. I probably won't even need to do that if my "Double-Double-Tap" loading method works as planned. Rip ... | |||
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416Tanzan, I have deleted the nonsense from your reply and will respond in red to the points with redeeming social value, even if jackaloping: 
Might be better to start with a virgin .458 barrel, use a .416 Ruger reamer with .450-bore pilot. Then use the .458 Win. Mag. SAAMI reamer for partial neck of the .458/.416 Ruger, and all of the throat. Then the SAAMI .458 Lott reamer would finish off the neck, and not touch the throat. Three operations. But the .458 Win. Mag. belt (0.535" reamer diameter) would ring the base of the .416 Ruger portion of the chamber (0.533" reamer diameter in that area).  A PURPOSE-MADE FINISH REAMER IS A MUST. With a purpose-made .458/.416 Ruger finish reamer, it might be possible to quite easily convert any .458 Win. Mag. in one operation But I am just an amateur riflecrank with only 46 years of bubba experience, inspired by my 299 of 300 score on U.S.M.A. M16 rifle qualification at age 17. They locked up that last 300-yard silhouette, wouldn't let it fall, or I shot the center out of it. I think plebe hazing included not letting them get a perfect score on anything.  Better ask a real GUNSMITH. Rip ... | |||
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Well, not necessarily a shoulder makes for better "power" all things being equal. Not for nothing almost all straight-walled cases are close to the ideal in terms of burning efficiency for a given burning rate. Physics comes handy to explain this in quite simple terms, not that I'm interested in delving into this, just because I'm bored tonight. Overbore also comes to play (as properly defined by the late Ken Howell) and hard to argue with a straight-walled case, when it comes to sheer efficiency. Which one is more efficient? The .35 Whelen or the .30-06 (parent case) ?? Easy...the Whelen. So, all in all, a cylindrical case is as efficient as a cartridge case can be. Period. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ColdBore 1.0 - the ballistics/reloading software solution http://www.patagoniaballistics.com | |||
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I have a better "Mini Me" twin bullet bullet for the .30-06 "training rifle" to match the trajectory of the 400-grain HV in the .458 Win. Mag. BC is within .002 and SD is within .001 difference:   Speer Grand Slam SP 180-grainer of .308 caliber, aka Hot Cor Mag Tip. 2500 fps from a 22" barrel will be a starting load in the .30-06, easy to find an accuracy load. Maybe H4831SC to slow it down, instead of the usual H4350 at 2700 fps. One could shoot a sleeker bullet at higher speed in the .30-06, but that would not serve as training wheels for the matching Ruger Mark II with matching SlugHunter scope. Of course a .458/.416 Ruger could do the same thing, and even at 100 fps faster velocity for training wheels.  Obviously that is not necessary with the modern .458 Wichester Magnum. LongCOL 400-grainer, 5550 ft-lbs KE. ShortCOL 450-grainer at +5200 ft-lbs KE. ShortCOL 500-grainers easily over 5000 ft-lbs KE, and LongCOL 500-grainers faster than a .458 Lott SAAMI load. Rip ... | |||
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That's the winner. Its amazing what a straight walled case can do with a bit of pressure. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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You guys are getting pretty retro, praising straight-walled cases.  Straight-walled 22's? They work, e.g., 22LR. 223 Rem is much better. Straight-walled 27's? Huh? Jack O'Connor would have had you for breakfast. However, I will admit that there is a point at which recoil and the necessary barrel size at the chamber will limit the practical application of a shoulder for a hunting cartridge. Could that be true already at .45"? Give us a break! A straight-walled .45" is a good round, maybe at a practical limit for some shooters. Perfect it ain't. So up to .510", I would stand by the following rule-of-thumb as time-tested wisdom: I think that a perfect rifle cartridge needs a shoulder. The shoulder says that the cartridge has more power than absolute minimum, that it is investing in its job of pushing the bullet through the bore. RIP--thank you for the practical tips on a Ruger chamber reamer. It does, in fact sound like running a Lott reamer in 2.58" and then a 416 Ruger reamer removable pilot in 2.58" would work, assuming a .450" pilot could be fitted.  +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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I’m just waiting for this post to get around to loading the 480 Woodleighs at 2250 and then we rename the 458 Win to the 450 Rimless Nitro Express and call it a day. | |||
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Couple of things, I knew Finn and had many wonderful conversations with him, He always used a 500 gr. bullet in his .458, mostly Woodleighs with handloads but mostly he used factory ammo as a matter of fact..It did what he required it made big holes in big animals, that's almost a verbatim quote.. I like a rifle case to have a shoulder to headspace on, the belt is prone to different sizes andf that effects brass life etc...All that said, Im not sure it makes a twit..The .458 has worked fine as has the other belted rounds for quite some time so its battlel proven so to speak.. Belt bitchings been around for ions but is of little value either way..I can live just fine with or without a belt on my pants or rifle casess..My opine is I would rather load my Lott down and shoot faster with less pressure, thus my preference..I know the .458 is an awesome killer with a good handload. Some can't seem to get that thru their thick skulls, and accuse me of degrading the .458 killing ability, not so... its all nonsense, and 40 pages proves it! As its become a page challenge and everyone is adding to that to set a record but its lost its value of good gun conversation..  Oops additionally I think a solid rifle bullet should have a shoulder on it also, Keith proved that with big pistols and it works on rifles as well, cuts a clean big hole less likely to plug up with fat deposits..Ive seen those plugs many times and it not prime for blood trails. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Tanzan, I think you are missing the boat here...not praising anything, just pointing out that a straight-walled case is not a flaw in and by itself. Your examples, well, that's whole another story and we can address them in another thread anytime soon. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ColdBore 1.0 - the ballistics/reloading software solution http://www.patagoniaballistics.com | |||
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Remember the "MatchKing" thread? This one is a Lott better than that one. I fired off 60 rounds of ancient factory .30-06 R-P CoreLoKt RN SP 220-grainers yesterday. It might have been half as old as Ray Atkinson's age.  It was advertised at 2410 fps ... from what barrel length? BC reportedly 0.294, no where near that of the sleek .458/400gr HV from a .458 Win. Mag., nor as speedy. In my 22" Ruger M77 MkII it chronographed 2337 fps at 5 yards, 5-shot Sd 17 fps, not too hot. That corrects to an MV of 2349 fps. Anyway, with the SlugHunter scope, it was easy to connect with the 600-yard gong. Two shots to get the windage, then 5 hits in a row, with the last 7 shots fired today. I am reloading that brass with 180-grain Speer GS SP to match the "flat shooting" .458 Win. Mag. trajectory. Hitting that 30" 600-yard gong was too easy. There is a 10" octagonal gong (across the flats), sitting on a pole at 500 yards that will be a better test of the rigs, and better practice. 500 yards is far enough to shoot game with a Four Five Eight. Rip ... | |||
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Yes, that would work for a .458/.416 Ruger throated like the .458 Lott, as long as you started with a virgin barrel, to avoid a "ghost belt." You would have a .458 Lott that fits in a 3.4" action, but with 2 grains of water less case capacity than the 3.6"-actioned .458 Lott. Alas, converting a .458 Win. Mag. to .458/.416 Ruger would require setting the barrel back a thread or two, to get rid of the "ghost belt" from the .458 Win. Mag. Chamber, even with the purpose made reamer incorporating the MAGIC THROAT. Best: Virgin .458 barrel and custom finish reamer, one reamer, for the .458/.416 Ruger with .458 Winchester Magnum throat (SAAMI). Rip ... | |||
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BaxterB, Thanks for the reply, much to Atkinson's chagrin though it may be.
Certainly all reasonable. How about the "450 Belted Nitro Express?"  Rip ... | |||
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Almost agreed . . . and . . . the ghost belt would be less than one-thousandth of an inch on top. The Ruger case is .532 at the base and the taper is roughly .001"/.01". The top of the old belt would leave a few ten-thousands for a bulge. I get a lot more bulge than that in many belted rounds just on top of the belt, depending on the chamber cut. Still, you are correct, it would leave a mark. So a 0.01"-0.02" barrel-setback would be called for. Before doing that, I wonder about the accuracy of the Win throat. Is it a factor? Probably not for hunters. Still, I wonder. It's different than progressive rifling. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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Well, you could make use of all that useless 458 Lott brass by firing it in the "458 Pioneer" chamber aka 458-375 Ruger (because RIP is no "Settler"). Balloon out the case to the belt diameter for some funky recycled cases for the irony of it. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Ray; it's not a page challenge, there are a lot of really good things I've lernt about my favorite cartridge . And I've been loading and shooting it for over 30 years. Bout a thousand times more useful than dumb s--+ about fancy wood stock grain and finish. Which pollute the big bore forum on a nauseous regularity ! Ain't a thing in the world wrong with you preferring the Lott over the Winchester. But, the fact is that the Lott will NEVER accomplish what the 458 Winchester Magnum already has. And now we are learning how to get performance that will be nearly identical to the 458 Lott. Last night I found reloading data from Accurate powder company that showed Accurate 2200 producing just under 2500 fps with a 400 gr bullet and under 47k psi With a 3.140 col. My own velocity testing of my 458 Lott with 400 gr bullets showed me it would get mid 2500s with a 400 gr bullet. I don't see any advantage to going with the longer action. Rip; That's impressive ringing a 600 yard gong with that boring rifle!!! Which aiming point did you use in the Slug Hunter scope ? Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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http://www.accuratepowder.com/...s/2011/04/DP2200.pdf Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Bottom line, I would not recommend anything that did not clean up absolutely. Given wibbles and wobbles, things might go one way or the other, for good or bad. I documented loads with SUB-MOA, 3-shot accuracy in the .458 Win. Mag., many times, including one with the 500-grain TSX at 2250 fps MV and 0.19-MOA for 3 shots at 50 yards: Bughole.  Rip ... | |||
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Thanks! The point on the bottom "post" of the SlugHunter reticle. Rip ... | |||
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 Rip ... | |||
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Oh no! Not a typo on the internet! We can do it in words: I remember a 17 thousandths diminishing diameter over about 2 inches. Divide the inches into tenths. That's twenty tenths. 17 thousands over twenty tenths. Round off to one: that is about one thousandth per every tenth of an inch. what was written? .1 or 0.1, correctly? No!! .01 So yes, the number was off but the result, under one thousandth budge was correct. Your apology for an accusation of 900 percent is accepted. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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PS: you are correct on threads. The thread count must go above .1-.2". PPS: Hunting accuracy is fine. I just wonder why most cartridges don't have such a long leade? If it's a good idea, why not more? If not, why not? The only innovation that I remember is the idea of progressive rifling, and most don't bother. Is a long lead the compromise between long and short freeborn? +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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