Fury01,

Thanks for the reply, for The Mission: 304 pages.

Yes, a piece of wax paper over the powder, a thick, soft lube cookie, a card and/or other wad, and then the gas-checked (or plain-based) well-lubed bullet.
Some experimentation will be required ... or just use powder-coated bullets with a gas-checked or plain-based bullet.
It ain't no NRA BPCR match rifle.
I think we already figured out how to do that, thank you very much, with the 1:14" twist, SAAMI-throated .458 Win. Mag., Whitworth 24-incher.
With a 1:18" twist and 28" length it ought to be better with cast bullets.
Faster than a speeding locomotive, and able to leap over any Quigley-style piece, as long as I do not have to play by the rules.

Some BP loads with grease-groove bullets would be a hoot, however, I have no exposed hammer on a Ruger No.1, .458 Win. Mag.

Hey, a Ruger No.1 .45-70 Govt. with 1:20" twist from the factory comes with a 22" barrel,
stainless/laminate and 0.670" diameter at the 22" muzzle, weight is 7.25 lbs dry/bare/empty.
Rechamber one of those to .458 Win. Mag.?
Or maybe the .458 WTF .458/400 Jeffery S Winchester Throated, aka .458 JWT.
With cast bullets that would be a daisy.

Rip ...

Another practice rifle to save on .458/400-gr HV expense:
Use the Sierra .375-caliber, 250-grain SBT "GameKing" with BC = 0.371 between 2250 and 2600 fps.
That could be made to work for all barrel length and COL combinations of .458 Win. Mag.
Only -.001 off the HV BC of .372 at 2500 fps.

Use a .375 H&H or .375 Ruger for trajectory practice.
A .375 Ruger Hawkeye can match the .458 Win. Mag. M77 Mk II action length too.

I have some nostalgic attachment to that bullet from .375 H&H black bear hunting days.
It was loaded in Federal Premium factory ammo,
supposedly 2670 fps, maybe, in a 26" barrel.
It was probably closer to 2600 fps from my 24" barrel.
Anyway, it flattened a 300-pounder with one shot, uphill at 200 yards.
I was an Alaska resident then, hunting like a native.

I was dropped off on the beach, alone in Prince William Sound. They said they would be back in "a few hours"
after they checked their bait where a known 600-pounder had been visiting.
I was the fifth wheel on that trip. I slowly Walked up a glacial valley by myself, gazing about.

So, 2 hours elapsed, I says to meself: "If I am going to get a bear, I have to think like a bear. Hmmm. Does a bear shit in the woods?"

So I squatted on the hillside and relieved myself. As I stood up and buckled my belt, I looked up the hillside, and there he was.
Bang. He came tumbling down the mountain.
It took about 3 hours for me to skin him and carry the skin and skull back to the beach.
Harvesting of bear meat was not required then.
I had tried local black bear previously and found that "red meat" too greasy and fishy for my liking.

I sat on the beach and waited after walking out of the valley.
A bowel movement and a bear in the same few minutes was a great day!
The older I get, the more excellent that memory gets.

The boat party soon arrived. They were pissed that I had kept them waiting, on my 5-hour bear hunt.
They said they had been back and forth from the fishing boat with the Zodiac.
They claimed to have fired shots into the air to signal me on their first try to pick me up.
I never heard a thing.

Rip ...

They got their 600-pounder the next day.
Huge black bear, killed by Captain Boondocker's son with multiple shots from a 270 WCF.
Hell I was there! Watched the whole thing transpire as we belly-crawled to the bait area. Surprised that 600-pounder.
Here's my good-luck 300-pounder,
taken with a single .375/250-grain GameKing at 2600 fps MV:



Rip ...

The Imgur muse strikes again!



Trajectory matching, training rifles:
.30-06 Springfield with 180-grain Speer MagTip at 2400-2600 fps, BC = 0.374
.375 Ruger with 250-grain Sierra GameKing at 2400-2600 fps, BC = 0.371
.458 Win. Mag. with 400-grain GSC HV at 2400-2600 fps, BC = 0.372

It may take use of a 20"-barreled .375 Ruger Hawkeye for slowing it down to 2400 fps,
a good match for a 20"-barreled .458 Win. Mag. with same action.

It may take use of a 28"-barreled Ruger No.1 .458 Win. Mag. for speeding it up to 2600 fps.
A 24"-barreled .375 H&H Ruger No.1 would be a good match for that.

The 2500 fps load from a 25"-barreled Ruger M77 Mk II is the sweet spot that works great with about any .30-06 or .375 Ruger or .375 H&H.
If the .375 H&H M70 Alaskan is used (25" barrel), one might want to make his .458 Win. Mag. on the H&H length M70.

I have several boxes each of those old Speer and Sierra bullets, hope they are still available.
Gotta get some more GSC HV.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
They got their 600-pounder the next day.
Huge black bear, killed by Captain Boondocker's son with multiple shots from a 270 WCF.
Hell I was there! Watched the whole thing transpire as we belly-crawled to the bait area. Surprised that 600-pounder.
Here's my good-luck 300-pounder,
taken with a single .375/250-grain GameKing at 2600 fps MV:



Rip ...

Beautiful hide on that bear RIP.
I didn't know they made the 250s back then . great cart and load for the job at hand !!
Beins they had the boats, they should have had u set up with a hand held vhf. And had a set check in sched.
I guess they expected you to be clairvoyant and bow to their whims all at the same time.
Some skippers need to be repeatedly kicked in the nutz !!

Last week I departed from the 9.3 brotherhood. Sent my 9.3x64 Brenneke off to Texas where someone was eagerly awaiting it.
So, the only Chro Mo rifle I have left is my 375 Whelen A.I. that my pastor built in 72 or 73 . And I blooded 2 falls ago. All the rest are stainless Rugers with the exception of the Kimber Montana 338 .
The 9.3s replacement , a nib Ruger Guide Gun in 375 Ruger came home wit me today.
I can easily push the 250 gr Sierra GKs at your stated vel from the 375 Whelen.

.375 Whelen would be an ideal trajectory trainer to match to the 20"-barreled .458 Win. Mag.
Good practice to save on HV.
Ditto a 20"-barreled .375 Ruger if you can slow that 250-grain GameKing to about 2400 fps MV.

One more .458 Wildcat then back to The King,
this one is so long that it will get by with a shorter throat:




Rip ...

H4895 should work for reduced loads in the Ruger. And it would save on powder. Unless someone had a big supply of Retumbo or some other super slow powder. I don't know how they would work in a low pressure application tho.

375 Whelen! (Clutches pearls)
It's the 38 Whelen as named by the Colonel.
375 Whelen is the Jelly to the Polaner All Fruit 38 Whelen.
http://youtu.be/jxzmYti5uBg

375 Whelen Ackley Improved ;-)
I don't live in the age of the 38/72

So we start page 42 on a flat note.

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
375 Whelan Ackley Improved ;-)
I don't live in the age of the 38/72

Nor is the "450 NEWT" called the "45-150 3-1/4-Inch Sharps Bottle Neck"
(Please pass the Polaner All Fruit JELLY!)
but it might be if I ever burn out the .458 Win. Mag. throat
and have to freshen it by rechambering for something using 470 NE brass.

Rip ...

Well, that would surely refresh the throat. You might have to rebate the cartridge head a bit.

Bro'Dart,
Thanks for helping get to page 304.

quote:

Originally posted by lawndart:
Well, that would surely refresh the throat. You might have to rebate the cartridge head a bit.

Ha ha ha that is funny. I doubt I will be rebating a 470 NE case for use in a bolt action.
After shortening it, enough to fit in a CZ 550 Magnum, and cutting an extractor groove and rebated rim,
I would end up with something similar to a rebated 450 Dakota.

This does suggest that the .416 Rigby might have evolved from the 470 NE case,
as much as the .505 Gibbs might have evolved from the 577 NE ...



Short: I am waiting on a .458 Shilen barrel for a Ruger M77 MkII, and
Long: looking to have a Pedersoli .458 barrel shortened and turned down for a Ruger No.1,
both chambered for .458 Win. Mag.
Adding a couple of extra .458 Win. Mag. rifles might keep me from burning out the throats on any of them.
That is the short and long of it.

Rip ...

I thot I had eroded the throat on the Spruce King after almost 2,000 rounds.
Turned out I just needed to clean it good. Throat looks fine now.
Maybe with more shooting and a higher rate of fire in hot weather the throat will burn out. But Shilen stainless barrels are made from good stuff.
You will acquire a good number of gun headaches before the throat burns out on your 458 Winchester Magnum.
Iirc, Phil has a Douglas chrome moly on his Old Ugly.
I'm fairly sure he has run more ammo thru it than I have mine. A check with him would give a good idea on throat life.

CTF,
Burning out the throat of a .458 Win. Mag. was just a joke to add to page count, for The Mission.
It worked!



Rip ...

BTW,

It turns out that the .375 Ruger is the ideal set of training wheels for the .458 Win. Mag.

In the Hornady reloading manual, the 250-grain-bullet loads (Hornady GMX, 3.330" COL, BC = 0.430)
from a 20" barrel are given for the .375 Ruger.
Velocities for the VARGET loads only go from 2400 fps to 2600 fps.
That is the perfect velocity range for the 250-grain cup&core Sierra GameKing,
so a 20" Ruger Hawkeye will be the perfect consort for any .458 Win. Mag. from 20" to 28" barrel length.



There are other loads that go up to 2700 fps with the .375/250-grain, monometal, plastic-tipped GMX from a 20" barrel ... that's nice.

The 270-grain bullet (Interlock SP-RP, 3.250" COL, BC = 0.380) loads in the Hornady manual for the 20"-barreled .375 Ruger
also span that same 2400-2700 fps range which makes it pretty darn close to perfect training wheels too.

Hornady specifies their reloading manual data is from a 20" barrel,
but admits that what they print on their factory load packaging is from a 24" SAAMI standard barrel.

Rip ...

This set of trajectory-training wheels,
VARGET-loaded with 250-grain Sierra GameKing at 2400 to 2600 fps MV,
might work for anything from 20" to 28" .458 Win. Mag.:



Winter: At 13.5" LOP without the slip-on pad it weighs 7 lbs 5 oz.
Summer: At 14.5" LOP with the slip-on pad it weighs 7 lbs 9 oz.

A Nikon SlugHunter in Ruger rings (extension front #4 and standard rear #5) adds 1 pound and 5 ounces.

8 lbs. 10 oz scoped: Winter
8 lbs. 14 oz scoped: Summer
Call it roughly an eight-and-three-quarter-pound rig before 4 rounds of ammo are added.

4 rounds of 300-grain factory ammo weigh about 5 ounces on the scales.

A light nylon sling and swivels, add another 4 ounces.

Scoped, loaded with ammo, slung: Roughly 9.5 pounds hanging, field ready.

Rip ...

Oh , I understand now. OK.

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
Oh , I understand now. OK.

CTF,

You get it, the joke about burning out a .458 Win. Mag. throat?
How about this one, a picture of Vlad Putin riding a Russian wild boar. Now this is funny:



Another perfect pairing, a Nikon riding a Ruger:



It's the .375 Ruger "boat gun" but it could be a .458 Win. Mag. boat gun.



I might cut off a 25" .458 Win. Mag. barrel to 21" one of these days just to see if it loses 40 fps or 100 fps or what?
Same rifle, same barrel, hacked off by 4".
Might be as little as 10 fps per inch,
from 20" to 26" according to what is posted below.

Rip ...

http://chuckhawks.com/rifle_barrel.htm

Jack O'Connor wrote in The Rifle Book that, "The barrel shorter than standard has a velocity loss which averages about 25 foot-seconds for every inch cut off the barrel. Likewise, there is a velocity gain with a longer barrel." He went on to illustrate this using a .30-06 rifle shooting 180 grain bullets as an example, so his estimate was obviously for rifles in that general performance class.

Other authorities have tried to take into account the different velocity ranges within which modern cartridges operate. The Remington Catalog 2003 includes a "Centerfire Rifle Velocity Vs. Barrel Length" table that shows the following velocity changes for barrels shorter or longer than the test barrel length:
MV 2000-2500 fps, the approximate change in MV per 1" change in barrel length is 10 fps.
MV 2500-3000 fps, the approximate change in MV per 1" change in barrel length is 20 fps.
MV 3000-3500 fps, the approximate change in MV per 1" change in barrel length is 30 fps.
MV 3500-4000 fps, the approximate change in MV per 1" change in barrel length is 40 fps.

The 45th Edition of the Lyman Reloading Handbook also has a table showing Center Fire Rifle Velocity Vs. Barrel Length. Their figures apply to barrels between 20 and 26 inches in length and agree with the Remington figures. The Lyman table shows the following approximate velocity changes:
For rifles with muzzle velocities in the 1000-2000 fps range, the change in velocity for each 1" change in barrel length is 5 fps.
For rifles with muzzle velocities in the 2001-2500 fps range, the change in velocity for each 1" change in barrel length is 10 fps.
For rifles with muzzle velocities in the 2501-3000 fps range, the change in velocity for each 1" change in barrel length is 20 fps.
For rifles with muzzle velocities in the 3001-3500 fps range, the change in velocity for each 1" change in barrel length is 30 fps.
For rifles with muzzle velocities in the 3501-4000 fps range, the change in velocity for each 1" change in barrel length is 40 fps.

The 43rd edition of the Lyman reloading Handbook gave some concrete examples of velocity loss for specific calibers and loads. The Lyman technicians chronographed some high velocity cartridges in rifles with barrels ranging in length from 26 inches down to 22 inches with the following results:
The average loss for the .243 Win./100 grain bullet was 29 fps per inch.
The average loss for the .264 Win. Mag./140 grain bullet was 32 fps per inch.
The average loss for the .300 H&H Mag./220 grain bullet was 25 fps per inch.

For standard high intensity cartridges in the same test, the Lyman technicians chronographed the cartridges in barrel lengths ranging in length from 24 inches down to 20 inches with the following results:
The average loss for the .270 Win./130 grain bullet was 37 fps per inch.
The average loss for the .270 Win./150 grain bullet was 32 fps per inch.
The average loss for the .300 Sav./180 grain bullet was 17 fps per inch.
The average loss for the .30-06/180 grain bullet was 15 fps per inch.
The average loss for the .35 Rem./200 grain bullet was 11 fps per inch.

After a bunch of disclaimers, the Lyman people concluded, "The rule of thumb is that high speed, high pressure cartridges shed more speed in short barrels than do the low speed, large bore types." It's funny, but that is what I had suspected all along!
********************************************************************************************
So said Chuck Hawks.
Seems rational.

Rip ...

Anecdote snagged from the The Internet, calculated with QuickLOAD:

"458 Win Mag: 500gr Hornady RN COAL 3.340" 60gr IMR-4198

22" barrel - 2058fps

20" barrel - 2026fps

18" barrel - 1990fps

16" barrel - 1947fps

"So,,,
22" to 20" = 16 FPSPI
20" to 18" = 18 FPSPI
18" to 16" = 21 FPSPI"

(Fast powder + large bore expansion ratio = little velocity loss or gain per inch in the 20" to 28" barrel of a .458 Win. Mag.)

Rip ...

Ray says about his .458 Win. Mag.:
"Greg,
I'll post the velocity loss per inch that occurs when I get mine cut down."
Later:
"Cut mine down from 26" to 23" - Lost 69 FPS or 23 FPSPI."
(another anecdote)

More than an anecdote about a Shilen-barreled .308 WCF chopped from 26" to 13.5".

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.c...locity-and-accuracy/

Very little loss in the 26" to 18" range with .308/175-grainer (Federal GMM ammo).
2575 fps at 26"
2501 fps at 18" barrel length.

Only 9.25 fps loss per inch of barrel chopped off.

Rip ...

Yup. That's pretty much what I figerd out in 94 when I got my first 416 Taylor. It had a 19" barrel. With normal loads . I got useful velocities. 400 gr sn @ 2300 . 350 gr@ 2450 and 325 gr @ 2600. But, The 2600 was too hot so I backed that load down to 2550 fps. That was from an ER Shaw barrel on a 17 Eddystone receiver.

When I had the SK built I wanted a good fighting size rifle. Since the 458 was so well established for dumping bear. I was willing to give up some velocity.
The Stainless Shilen 1 in 14 twist barrel proved to be good And fast for its length. So , I never regretted the short barrel from a velocity stand point.
Granted , some people's longer barrels give higher velocity . But, I've always had plenty enough to accomplish the task at hand.

Well, uh, I could easily get 2400 fps with 400-grainer in my 26"-barreled .416 Taylor aka .416 Watts Short.
Shilen barrel also.
But it is so long, that a 25"-barreled .458 Win. Mag. will be an improvement.

Funny thing about the .30-06 SPRG which I had forgotten if I ever knew it:
The SAAMI throat has zero parallel-sided free-bore, it is just a leade of 1*22'0".
So I had to crimp the 180-grain Speer Mag Tip on that first little ghost-cannelure above the gnarly knurled cannelure.
My COL was 3.090"
Ha ha.
ShortCOL 30-06 trajectory trainer for the LongCOL .458 Win. Mag.
Winchester brass, CCI-200 primer.

In my 22"-barreled Ruger M77 Mark II .30-06, 47.0 grains of VARGET gave exactly 2501 fps MV (12 fps to correct from 5-yard instrumental velocity).

45.0 grains of Varget gave 2398 fps MV.
45.1 grains of Varget ought to give about 2400 fps MV.

Sd's for the 5-shot strings were 5 to 6 fps for the upper range of powder charges.
Not bad.

I will have to go to H4350 and bigger charges to get to 2600 fps with the 180-grainer.
Varget comes up about 100 fps slower than I expected, from published data by Hodgdon.
Yeah, I know, they might be using a SAAMI minimum-spec barrel, for several reasons,
and powder lots do vary.

I am itching to get the .375 Ruger with .375/250-grain Sierra GameKing to do the 2400 to 2600 fps trick too, trying VARGET again.
For aulde lang zyne.

Rip ...

Iirc my 400 gr 416 Taylor load was 70.5 gr of imr4320. I know my 350 gr load was 74 gr 4320. Unfortunately Barnes quit making the 325 gr X bullet in 416. Which was unfortunate for me. I really liked that bullet.
I'm sure that with a 24" or longer barrel the Taylor would easily get 2400 fps with a 400 gr bullet.
That is just too much barrel length for my use. My 2nd 416 Taylor had an 18" barrel. That was a good length. That rifle has dumped a bunch of bear since I gave it to a guide friend in Hoonah. He was using the 400 gr Woodleigh's RNSN @2250 fps. Last I knew.


From the bolt face to the rifling crown on the SK it about 20 1/4" from the receiver face to the muzzle of the brake it's about 21.5"

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
Iirc my 400 gr 416 Taylor load was 70.5 gr of imr4320. I know my 350 gr load was 74 gr 4320. Unfortunately Barnes quit making the 325 gr X bullet in 416. Which was unfortunate for me. I really liked that bullet.
I'm sure that with a 24" or longer barrel the Taylor would easily get 2400 fps with a 400 gr bullet.
That is just too much barrel length for my use. My 2nd 416 Taylor had an 18" barrel. That was a good length. That rifle has dumped a bunch of bear since I gave it to a guide friend in Hoonah. He was using the 400 gr Woodleigh's RNSN @2250 fps. Last I knew.


From the bolt face to the rifling crown on the SK it about 20 1/4" from the receiver face to the muzzle of the brake it's about 21.5"

The 416 Taylor has about 10 grains less capacity than the 416 Ruger. I would quibble with the "easy" rating for the Taylor. The Ruger may get 2400 fps easily with a 400gn bullet, but the Taylor will be huffing and puffing. In fact, if and when Ruger comes out with another run of "Alaskans", stainless with 20" barrel, they will still get 2400fps. Actually, both the 23"-barreled African with its sleek wood stock and any kind of composite on the Alaskan are pretty handy little rifles.
If you've got a Taylor, great. Use it and enjoy it. But if you pick up a new .416 . . .

The secret to getting the velocity from the 416 Taylor is IMR4320. Unless something is weird with the barrel. A 24" barreled 416 Taylor will get 2400 fps without much difficulty. And only burn around 72 grains of it.
Its like back in the day when people said the 458 would Not push a 400 gr bullet to 2400 fps. We obviously know that is not a true statement nowadays. But back then they thot it was. Same as getting a good consistent 2150 fps with a 500 gr bullet . And I've been doing it with a 20" barrel since 95.

quote:

The secret to getting the velocity from the 416 Taylor is IMR4320. Unless something is weird with the barrel. A 24" barreled 416 Taylor will get 2400 fps without much difficulty.

That's fair.

Then with a 12% larger capacity in the 416 Ruger you can expect 2450fps - 2480 fps. The point being that we now have a 416 in a solid factory rifle that will do the above and more out of the box. Controlled-round-field, excellent rings, lightweight, short and medium length barrels, good hunting stocks (with Boyds available for custom, plus pricier options). Don't sell a Taylor that works, but for a new rifle in this niche . . .

Ya, still and all tho. A guy would need to lay in 1k rounds of brass so he KNEW he would always be able to shoot his rifle. And that is expensive. But, at least it available atm. The beauty of the standard length belted 532 brass tho. Aside from always doing what it was needed to do. Its common!!!
Having jettisoned my 9.3×64 Brenneke after 10 years For 1 reason only. Rare brass !
That's the beauty of the 458. If it's.532 belted brass . It can be massaged into 458 brass. Then even if all a guy can find is old batteries or a wrecked boat on the beach. And he has a mold. He can be hunting ect.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

The secret to getting the velocity from the 416 Taylor is IMR4320. Unless something is weird with the barrel. A 24" barreled 416 Taylor will get 2400 fps without much difficulty.

That's fair.

Then with a 12% larger capacity in the 416 Ruger you can expect 2450fps - 2480 fps. The point being that we now have a 416 in a solid factory rifle that will do the above and more out of the box. Controlled-round-field, excellent rings, lightweight, short and medium length barrels, good hunting stocks (with Boyds available for custom, plus pricier options). Don't sell a Taylor that works, but for a new rifle in this niche . . .

I have been researching powders for the 375 Ruger.
It looks like the same powders that work great in the 6.5 Creedmoor will work great. Same with the 338 Winchester.

P.S. the rings would be excellent if they came with high 30 mm ss rings.

quote:

A guy would need to lay in 1k rounds of brass so he KNEW he would always be able to shoot his rifle.

You're sounding more than a tad pessimistic. The 375 Ruger brass is here to stay, even if it is not as popular as belted stuff down at the 27-33 cal levels. One hundred fifty (200max) will do you fine. (I will admit that things are a bit iffy with 500AccRel [a short Rigby case], so I've got over two hundred total.)

quote:

I have been researching powders for the 375 Ruger.
It looks like the same powders that work great in the 6.5 Creedmoor will work great. Same with the 338 Winchester.

P.S. the rings would be excellent if they came with high 30 mm ss rings.

If you want 30mm rings for an illuminated scope, go for it. Ruger will replace your 25mm rings if you send them in. I use Nikon Inline or Nikon Monarch 2-8 Compact on all by big bores (the 2-8 fits CZ magnums!), so the 25mm is great. Personally, I find 30mm heavy. (Ruger will also swap out an extended front ring if you call and send in your other. Or spend the $30-40 at Optics Planet.)

Powders, yes! There are so many. I like R-17 in the 375 Ruger, but the new IMR 4166 works with lighter bullets like GSC 200-grains. I haven't had the privilege to work with the 416 Ruger yet, we've had and have too many good-shooting Rigbys that love R-17 for full capacity loads. Never overlook H4895 for lighter, medium-powered loads in these calibers. H4895 is establish, easy to find, and safe in light loadings as well as full pressure. Always remember, the straighter the case-wall, the faster the optimum powder is likely to be.

Anyway, there are no flies on the Taylor or WinMags. They do have a claim to 'been there first', with an interesting irony. In 416 it is Ruger that has easy factory rifles and brass versus custom chambers being needed for a 458 Ruger. But the belted-brass standard lengths have an easy factory model in 458WM, with somewhat difficult customizing needed these days for the 416 Taylor. (The Taylor will not 'clean-up' a 416Ruger chamber.)

The 416 Ruger Alaskan with a McMillan classic stock and a 1-4 / 1-6ish straight tube scope is one of my favorite rifles. I will be satisfied with the 350 grain TSX/TTSX at 2350-2400 fps with the 20" barrel. From 10' to 200 meters, I think that velocity range and bullet should be decisive for anything in North America.

The 416 Ruger and 416 Rem with the Barnes 350 grainers have quelled my desire for larger bore diameter and bullet weight. A lot of my like for the 416's has to do with the individual rifles. The previously mentioned 416 Ruger is a pleasure to handle/carry and shoot.

I do appreciate and thank RIP for sharing his research and time with 458 and GS Custom 400 grain. That would definitely be my bullet of choice for the Winchester and Lott.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
Iirc my 400 gr 416 Taylor load was 70.5 gr of imr4320. I know my 350 gr load was 74 gr 4320. Unfortunately Barnes quit making the 325 gr X bullet in 416. Which was unfortunate for me. I really liked that bullet.
I'm sure that with a 24" or longer barrel the Taylor would easily get 2400 fps with a 400 gr bullet.
That is just too much barrel length for my use. My 2nd 416 Taylor had an 18" barrel. That was a good length. That rifle has dumped a bunch of bear since I gave it to a guide friend in Hoonah. He was using the 400 gr Woodleigh's RNSN @2250 fps. Last I knew.


From the bolt face to the rifling crown on the SK it about 20 1/4" from the receiver face to the muzzle of the brake it's about 21.5"

The 416 Taylor has about 10 grains less capacity than the 416 Ruger. I would quibble with the "easy" rating for the Taylor. The Ruger may get 2400 fps easily with a 400gn bullet, but the Taylor will be huffing and puffing. In fact, if and when Ruger comes out with another run of "Alaskans", stainless with 20" barrel, they will still get 2400fps. Actually, both the 23"-barreled African with its sleek wood stock and any kind of composite on the Alaskan are pretty handy little rifles.
If you've got a Taylor, great. Use it and enjoy it. But if you pick up a new .416 . . .

I will admit to being a bit pessimistic
I absolutely HATE to encourage any more 30 caliber carts being invented. BUT !!! If Ruger would bring out a 7 mm and worse yet a 30 Ruger. On the full length Ruger case. Then brass worries would disappear!
At the moment I have 6.5 Creedmoor loaded ammo with at least 5 different caliber/cartridge headstamps. From 22/250 up thru 308 Win. I got my Creed when obummer was elected the 2nd time.
I agree that the Ruger Alaskan rifle and the Guide Gun are pretty much perfect. And the FTW is pretty awesome also.
I just have a real soft spot for the 416 Taylor and Remington. I have some great history with both.
More with the 458 tho.
At this point I don't have any plans to get another 416 as I've got the 375 Ruger and the Spruce King.
However, If I can find a good deal on a used stainless M77 Mk2 or Hawkeye in 300 Winchester. I will pull the barrel and send it out for reboring to 375 cal and end up with a 375/300 Win mag.

Oh my!!

quote:

The 416 Ruger Alaskan with a McMillan classic stock and a 1-4 / 1-6ish straight tube scope is one of my favorite rifles. I will be satisfied with the 350 grain TSX/TTSX at 2350-2400 fps with the 20" barrel. From 10' to 200 meters, I think that velocity range and bullet should be decisive for anything in North America.

idmay--
if and when I get a 416 Ruger, the 350 TTSX is one of the bullets of choice, probably 2550fps-2600fps, along with the GSC 330gn at 2600fps.
I would still feel properly armed walking around Tanzania.

My first 416 Rem mag , I ran a lot of 350s at 2350 ish and 400 at 2200ish. For deer hunting and blasting . I'm sure this loads would have worked fine on a bear if the need arose. Mostly they just made good fun shooting. And fireforming lots of 375 brass to 416.
When serious I would crank the velocity up to 2500 with the 350s .

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
Iirc my 400 gr 416 Taylor load was 70.5 gr of imr4320. I know my 350 gr load was 74 gr 4320. Unfortunately Barnes quit making the 325 gr X bullet in 416. Which was unfortunate for me. I really liked that bullet.
I'm sure that with a 24" or longer barrel the Taylor would easily get 2400 fps with a 400 gr bullet.

Best load in my .416 Taylor with 26"-long Shilen, stainless, 1:14" twist, did this, with no excessive pressure signs:
RL-15 75.0 grains
400-gr Hornady RNSP >>> 2422, 2417, 2415: Average of 3 shots = 2418 fps 5-yard instrumental velocity
For BC = .311, MV would be +2430 fps
So, chopping the barrel to 24" might well yield +2400 fps MV, the "magic number" for a heavy-for-caliber bullet.
Hmmm ...


That is just too much barrel length for my use. My 2nd 416 Taylor had an 18" barrel. That was a good length. That rifle has dumped a bunch of bear since I gave it to a guide friend in Hoonah. He was using the 400 gr Woodleigh's RNSN @2250 fps. Last I knew.

From the bolt face to the rifling crown on the SK it about 20 1/4"

That is the only way to measure a barrel length.

from the receiver face to the muzzle of the brake it's about 21.5"

Good news on the .30-06 SPRG Trajectory Trainer, companion to the .458 Win. Mag.
In my Ruger M77 Mk II .30-06 with 22" barrel:
Winchester case
CCI-200 primer
COL 3.090" with 180-gr Speer MagTip
Temperature: Exactly 70*F on 4-21-2018

H4350 52.4 grains >>> 2500 fps MV exactly, and smallest group: Accuracy node for this rifle.
H4350 54.2 grains >>> 2600 fps MV
H4350 57.5 grains >>> 2778 fps MV
Published Hodgdon data using Sierra 180-gr SPBT (3.300" COL, Winchester case and WLR primer)
showed 24"-long barrel to give
2798 fps/49,300 CUP with 57.5 grains H4350.
2543 fps/37,800 CUP with 52.0 grains H4350.

That makes my rifle and powder lot very close to the Hodgdon Annual Manual data.

So my 180-grain-2500-fps load is probably no more than 50,000 PSI.
That is for the .30-06.
The 400-grain-2500-fps load in the .458 Win. Mag., has a bit higher pressure,
according to Captain Obvious.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
The 416 Taylor has about 10 grains less capacity than the 416 Ruger. I would quibble with the "easy" rating for the Taylor.
400-grainer @ 2430 fps MV with a 26" Shilen barrel is easy.
I would not quibble over 2400 fps with a 24"-barreled .416 Taylor/Watts Short.
But that is just me.
The Ruger may get 2400 fps easily with a 400gn bullet, but the Taylor will be huffing and puffing.
I own both a 20"-barreled .416 Ruger Hawkeye, and a 24"-barreled .416 Ruger No.1.
They are about same overall length rifles. Thank you again, Captain Obvious.
I have not handloaded for this cartridge.
But I did fire 25 rounds of the Hornady factory ammo with DGS "Solid" 400-grainer over a chronograph,
for a single string:
20" Barrel, 5-yard average velocity at 77* F: 2337 fps
St. dev. = 10 fps for 25 shots: EXCELLENT AMMO
MV would be barely +2350 fps for 20-Incher.
MV could be +2400 fps for 24-Incher.
I need to check that FACTORY AMMO in the 24-inch barrel, for sure.
Another barrel-length/MV-change anecdote for the record is pending.

In fact, if and when Ruger comes out with another run of "Alaskans", stainless with 20" barrel, they will still get 2400fps.

Here I might quibble that a 20-Inch .416 Ruger will be "huffing and puffing" if it does 2400 fps with a 400-grainer.
But that is just quibbling.

Actually, both the 23"-barreled African with its sleek wood stock and any kind of composite on the Alaskan are pretty handy little rifles.

Something all can agree upon.
The stocks I like are the Hawkeye African's walnut, Mk II laminate, Mk II Zytel, Mk II Tupperware, and Mk II HS Precision with full bedding block ... anything but a Hogue! I can do without the funny butts on the Guide Guns and FTW Hawkeyes too, but the painted laminate wood with crossbolts makes them more acceptable than a Hogue.
The Hogue is sticky to touch, unhandy!
I certainly do not want to hand one. I want to unhand a Hogue. Unhandy!


If you've got a Taylor, great. Use it and enjoy it. But if you pick up a new .416 . . .

Change of heart, I cannot sacrifice my obsolete .416 Taylor/Watts Short 26-Incher, it is just too special.
I am going to have to sacrifice a 7mm Rem. Mag. M77 MkII instead.
That will be perfectly painless as the new donor for that .458 Win. Mag.

I finally caught up.
416 Tanzan has figured out the .416 Taylor is not bad.
ldmay 375 likes the .458/400-grain HV idea.
And Alf has not given up on Ruger.

Rip ...

From the backside of the safe emerges: