quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by Gustavo:

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
Didn't Jack Lott try something like that and write it up for Peterson's? If I remember it didn't work as well as planned.

Phil, I have the piece, and to be honest, Jack never got to the lengths of Ross, not even close...indeed in several passages he speaks out very well of the .458 WM and most of his critics were about the bullets used, not the cartridge itself.

I think he was too smart to fell into the ego trap.

Jack was, after all, a real class act...unlike Ross...

Gustavo,
Are we talking about a Jack Lott .458 Garand?
You have the article?
Please PM me if you do, it will save me some time.
Thanks.
Rip
.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Gustavo,
Thanks for the gunporn with redeeming social value.

I do have some more Jack Lott stuff ...

Rip
.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustavo:
Wayne Jacobson of American Hunting Rifles (known by many on this forum), just sent me some pics of my new, alas, still in his hands! .458 Win Mag

It's a work of art, and fulfilled every dream I had about it.

McMillan stock, 20" barrel (Shilen #5), Ruger Hawkeye SS action.

quote:

Originally posted by Bitterroot:
This really turned out to be a dandy little rifle. It started out as a new 7mm Rem Mag in stainless. I had the choice of a few chamberings to start with, but I figured I'd take another 7 Mag off the market, and the barrels make great Tomato stakes (I don't like 7 Mags).

The rifle balances and swings just sweet, and it's a shooter too. I shot the target that Gus posted today with the iron sights. I want one.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustavo:
Wayne just told me the rifle weighs exactly 8 pounds and it handles very well.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
The article above once again honestly confirms there was no fault of the .458 WinMag involved in Jack's encounter with the buffalo.
Jack blamed not the .458 WinMag.
He blamed his bad shooting
(he shot late and placed the bullets poorly),
and possibly a weak bullet construction, that "deformed" and deflected.
Rip
.

quote:

Originally posted by DArcy_Echols_Co:
I'm a little fuzzy on the 50 yard zero with irons that allows for only 3" drop at 200 yards as I have never witnessed this at all, not remotely. More like 7" to 10" driven right at 2300 fps depending on the bullet nose shape chosen.

Yes, that is screwy. Possibly just confusion over sighting the open sights dead on at 50 yards (very useful zero), then using the scope at longer ranges, sighted to be 3 inches low at 200 yards with scope?

Using iron sights with 500-grainer at 2300 fps (BC = .295 like old Hornady FMJRN)
Sight height 1.00" for irons:
+1.559" (high) at 50 yards >>> -3 inches (low) at 200 yards, max ordinate +2.28" at 91.41 yards.
That too would be a useful zero for someone good with iron sights.
Apparently Jack was better with a scope, like most of us.
He liked a 2.5X scope on his .458 Lotts.

Somewhere I have some Lott loading data put together by Chet Brown. Chet was really interested in the Lott as well and used the Swift A-Frame for much of his testing. He did have one 700 come apart on him during some testing the notation beside that load was "don't try this load again"

Seems to confirm a pattern of Swift A-Frame bullets causing pressure spikes.

I found H-4895 to give me the highest velocities and safest pressure levels at those velocities as well as the most accurate loads over a very broad spectrum of bullets.

I expect H4895 and AA2230 to be tops with the heavy bullets in the .458 WinMag Shortclaw and Longclaw.

If you're using mono bullets like the TSX you can't seat the bullets over enough 4320 to really do any good. I have had ho-hum results with 4320 and gave up on it very early in the game.

However, one can load a .458 WinMag Longclaw to 3.8" COL with some 500-grain monometals and 600-grain cup&core bullets.
Longclaw: Sword of The Bastard!

Perhaps with some of the newer powder blends such as Hornady has used you can safely get 2300fps from a 22" barrel using a 500 grain bullet. I shot some of early Hornady factory loads that clocked 2306fps from a 23" barrel but the recoil was rude to say the least.

Whatever the .458 Lott can do, the .458 WinMag Longclaw can do better.

Being the wimp I am, I finally settled on driving a 500gr at 2250 to 2270fps which was more than enough but to each his own.

Sounds perfect for my .458 WinMag rifles.

I plan to never build another Lott as I'd be forced to shoot it and can think of better things to do.

You guys have fun

quote:

No more .458 Lotts, just .458 WinMags with whatever length magazine box the customer wants, eh?

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
[QUOTE]No more .458 Lotts, just .458 WinMags with whatever length magazine box the customer wants, eh?

quote:

Originally posted by Cougarz:
The more I read about the bigger .458's the more the .450 Ackley appeals to me.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:

quote:

Originally posted by Cougarz:
The more I read about the bigger .458's the more the .450 Ackley appeals to me.

They are real good. Although a 460 feels like a big V8 manual cruising around next to one. The 2350 with the 460 is reduced load stuff.

One of my regrets in the "never have owned" is the 460 G&A or 458 RUM.

I have owned a few 458 Winchesters but would never have another one after the 450 Ackley.

The only possible objection to the 450 Ackley for dangerous game is from memory they are about .505 at the shoulder, like the 358 STA and so very parallel sided...maybe a potential extraction problem if load to full power.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
I think lott turned a Browning BAR into a .458.
He said it took some work to feed properly, and didn't reduce recoil like he hoped it might.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

No more .458 Lotts, just .458 WinMags with whatever length magazine box the customer wants, eh?

Bad-mouthing a Lott for the WM is like trying to do away with the 30-06 by hyping a 308.


What? I am bad-mouthing the .458 Lott? Hardly! Just suggesting a better alternative.
I know you are my elder, and I mean no disrespect, but
by your standards, you are "Mr. Potty Mouth" regarding the .458 WinMag.

Furthermore, that is a poor analogy in a comparison of the .30-06/.308 WCF
versus .458 Lott/.458 WinMag. The throating differences alone make for a totally different can of worms.

While I would gravitate to a 450 Rigby/460Weatherby in .458" in a long magnum action,
the the cat's meow would be a short 2.6" Rigby case and .458".
Surely someone has done it. What is it called?

The obscure .458 Majoor and others such as my equally obscure .450 Ted Williams Thumper
(.458/.338 Lop'wah Magnum 2.7") are some possibilities.
If you require a 2.6" case instead of my 2.7" case length,
just trim the neck down to liking.
The .458 boom stick is a 2.5" trimming of the .450 Thumper:











Meanwhile the 458AccRel wouldn't be bad, either. It's just that a short 2.6" Rigby case would be about an ideal capacity for .458".

If you want to be limited to a 3.4" box length, might as well make it a 2.5" case like the .458 boom stick.

The 458 WinMag needs more capacity for real versatility. Just like the 308 needs more capacity for true versatility.

Your analogy fails again.
It is impossible to load the .308 WCF as a "Longclaw" due to throat limits,
unlike with the .458 WinMag Longclaw.
3.6" COL can be loaded and ejected from most .458 WinMag rifles with 3.4" boxes.
The .458 WinMag is VERSATILE.

quote:

Originally posted by Cougarz:
The more I read about the bigger .458's the more the .450 Ackley appeals to me.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:
I have owned a few 458 Winchesters but would never have another one after the 450 Ackley.
Blasphemy!
The only possible objection to the 450 Ackley for dangerous game is from memory they are about .505 at the shoulder, like the 358 STA and so very parallel sided...maybe a potential extraction problem if load to full power.
See reply to Cougarz above.

quote:

Originally posted by Sledge:
RIP.....

I've always wondered what happened to that old FN/Dumoulin of Jack Lott's. It would be neat if it turned up.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

No more .458 Lotts, just .458 WinMags with whatever length magazine box the customer wants, eh?

Bad-mouthing a Lott for the WM is like trying to do away with the 30-06 by hyping a 308.

While I would gravitate to a 450 Rigby/460Weatherby in .458" in a long magnum action,
the the cat's meow would be a short 2.6" Rigby case and .458".
Surely someone has done it. What is it called? Meanwhile the 458AccRel wouldn't be bad, either. It's just that a short 2.6" Rigby case would be about an ideal capacity for .458".


The 458 WinMag needs more capacity for real versatility. Just like the 308 needs more capacity for true versatility.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
Yes, the Ackley is rather straight-walled,
BUT the Ackley is too long for too little capacity.

Finally, some truth!

If one wants capacity, then a 460 Weatherby or 450 Rigby beltless is the way to go in long long actions.

The 460 VanHorn gets more capacity than the Ackley (10%?) and fits a standard length action. It is a 460 Weatherby reformed and chopped to 2.5".

Here you go:



Notice that the loads shown can be fairly well matched by a .458 WinMag of proper configuration,
burning less powder and producing less recoil.

Even nicer would be a beltless, standard-length, .582-.590 casehead, .458". One could use Lapua brass and reduce to 2.6" case length. It would generate all of the horsepower most would want in an easy-carry rifle. It should get 20+% more volume than the WinMag. Load it down to the Lott or Ackley, or load up close to the Rigby and Weatherby at top max.

I'm actually surprised that RIP has not initiated a .458" Lapua long-loading. The 3.7" Lapua case at .458" would allow a little extra seating into a long magazine. But why reinvent a wheel when there is a 450 Rigby?

See .450 Ted Williams Thumper above.
By current rules, Ted "Thumper" Williams would have batted .450 in 1941, instead of .406,
but still, no other player has beat .400 since then?

And for the ultimate carry rifle with WinMag ballistics we have the venerable
458 B&M. It has slightly more capacity that a 458WinMag and fits in a Win M70 WSM action.

Oh boy! Let's talk about that .458 B&M. See below.

Yes, short action. Pretty nice. In fact very nice. It might be fun to hunt with one.

quote:

Any negative posts here are appreciated for furthering THE MISSION.
Us .458 WinMag yaysayers enjoy playing with the naysayers.

Let the fun continue.

Rip

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
Yes, the Ackley is rather straight-walled,
BUT the Ackley is too long for too little capacity.

Finally, some truth!

If one wants capacity, then a 460 Weatherby or 450 Rigby beltless is the way to go in long long actions.

The 460 VanHorn gets more capacity than the Ackley (10%?) and fits a standard length action. It is a 460 Weatherby reformed and chopped to 2.5".

Here you go:



Notice that the loads shown can be fairly well matched by a .458 WinMag of proper configuration,
burning less powder and producing less recoil.

Even nicer would be a beltless, standard-length, .582-.590 casehead, .458". One could use Lapua brass and reduce to 2.6" case length. It would generate all of the horsepower most would want in an easy-carry rifle. It should get 20+% more volume than the WinMag. Load it down to the Lott or Ackley, or load up close to the Rigby and Weatherby at top max.

I'm actually surprised that RIP has not initiated a .458" Lapua long-loading. The 3.7" Lapua case at .458" would allow a little extra seating into a long magazine. But why reinvent a wheel when there is a 450 Rigby?

See .450 Ted Williams Thumper above.
By current rules, Ted "Thumper" Williams would have batted .450 in 1941, instead of .406,
but still, no other player has beat .400 since then?

And for the ultimate carry rifle with WinMag ballistics we have the venerable
458 B&M. It has slightly more capacity that a 458WinMag and fits in a Win M70 WSM action.

Oh boy! Let's talk about that .458 B&M. See below.

Yes, short action. Pretty nice. In fact very nice. It might be fun to hunt with one.

Rip
.