Shooting for 304 pages of thread, or however many it takes by then.

Rip ...

Ruger was not making their own barrels back in 1975 when my rifle might have been made.
Serial number is 75-..., I need to look that up.

The old Roundtop must have a pretty good barrel (Wilson or Douglas?) but it has a slightly oval chamber base that deforms the brass on firing.
Must have been chambered on a Monday morning or Friday afternoon.
However, it used to put 3 shots of 150-grain Remington Bronze Points into 1/2" at 100 yards.
The Old Girl has been resurrected for use with Nikon SlugHunter. Practice with 220-grainers at 2400 fps, out to 600 yards,
almost as flat shooting as the .458 Win. Mag.

It is a start at fitting a SlugHunter onto a Ruger M77 Mk II or Hawkeye.

The stainless Hawkeye Alaskan in .375 Ruger is a perfect candidate for a re-barrel to .458 Win. Mag.
As a 20"-barreled .375 Ruger from factory, put it in a Zytel Boat Paddle stock and the bare/empty rifle weighs 7 lbs 5 oz.
Feeds great.
You can load two 500-grain or 450-grain whatevers in the bottom of the box, ShortCOL,
and have a 3.550"-COL 400-grainer in the top position of the box, with bullet tip on feed ramp,
then close the bolt while push-feeding another LongCOL load into the chamber.
Four-shooter: Two shortCOL backing up the two LongCOL rounds.
You can eject the loaded longCOL loads if not fired.
No modifications to rifle at all are required other than re-barreling.
Dave Scovill and others have converted the 3.4" box to 3.6" box length in the Ruger M77 Mark II with minimum fuss, however.

Rip ...

Below are excerpts for a "book review" of RIFLE magazine.



Book review: It is a good book.

Rip ...

To do the Scovill conversion of the action of a Ruger M77 Mk II or Hawkeye in .338 Win. Mag. to .375 H&H:

1. Sheetmetal magazine box liner for .375 H&H
2. Magazine Follower for .375 H&H
3. New Barrel
4. Gunsmith

Dave used the same contour .375 H&H barrel as was on the .338 Win. Mag.
Same iron sights on factory .338 worked nicely on his .375.



Rip ...

A good friend has a round top Ruger. It's a 7 mag . has an oversize chamber. He's killed a lot of game with it. It now has a burn out throat so that is that.
Neither here nor there.
Don't you have anything more interesting to shoot than an 06 , blahhh

quote:

The stainless Hawkeye Alaskan in .375 Ruger is a perfect candidate for a re-barrel to .458 Win. Mag.

I suppose I should stand by and applaud, since I used a 375Ruger Alaskan for my 500AccR. I'll need to look for a 416Ruger Alaskan and then just leave well enough alone.

I wouldn't change a 375 or 416 Ruger
There are too many Hawkeye's in 300 mag. Make a wonderful candidate.

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
I wouldn't change a 375 or 416 Ruger
There are too many Hawkeye's in 300 mag. Make a wonderful candidate.

Point taken.
I'll leave the 7#5oz .375 Ruger (in a canoe paddle stock) as is.
The .416 Taylor pictured above, M77 Mk II formerly a .338 Win. Mag.,
is smoother feeding and actually has a little more magazine room than the Hawkeye .375 Ruger.
It has been through the hands of two previous Gunsmiths.
It will become a "switch-barrel" for .450 Watts Short and .416 Watts Short.

I went ahead and ordered a Shilen barrel. #5.5 Medium Weight Varmint.
You get only one choice of twist (1:14" and 6-groove, .458"/.450") from Shilen.
The Shilen #5 Light Weight Varmint contour on the .416 Taylor is only 0.050" smaller diameter from 6" length to 26" length, versus the #5.5.
It has same 1.220"x3.000" knoxform as on the #5.5.

The "Alder Queen" will have a Wisner "African" rear sight and a 25" barrel, like the old M70.
Many stock options to try to balance that barrel:
HS Precision
B&C
Ruger laminate
Ruger Tupperware
Ruger Zytel boat paddle
Ruger "FTW" painted laminate with plastic butt spacers ...

If I want to make toothpicks, I could use a slim, trim, 1.75-pound, walnut Ruger Hawkeye "African" stock on it.

Rip ...

Next reply gets to start page 38.
Moving right along ...

Rip ...

Not to take Anything away from either the 458 or the 416 Ruger. But I Really like the 416 Taylor. Would like a stainless 17" barreled one set up as a Scout Rifle.

Can’t hardly wait for the next installment

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

The stainless Hawkeye Alaskan in .375 Ruger is a perfect candidate for a re-barrel to .458 Win. Mag.

I suppose I should stand by and applaud, since I used a 375Ruger Alaskan for my 500AccR. I'll need to look for a 416Ruger Alaskan and then just leave well enough alone.

Precisely the reason I haven't built another 416 Taylor.
The Ruger Guide Gun/Rifle pretty well ticks all the boxes right out of the box.

Agreed, the .416 Ruger has obsoleted the .416 Taylor,
but not the .458 Win. Mag.

Reviving the .458 Winchester Magnum, for me, has been sort of like this:



The .458 Win. Mag. is a hotrod dream come true.
A Ruger M77 Mark II is getting rebuilt.
Parts is parts.


I really dislike the scout scope except as a backup to a standard scope. Even a Leupold 2.5X in standard location beats a scout scope for me.

With a 17" barrel, I cannot get the 400-grainer up to 2500 fps, and cannot balance a reasonable weight rifle without adding lead or fattening the barrel a lot!

But to each his own madness, the more the merrier.
And the .30-06 ain't so awful either.
With a .30-06 and a .458 (and a 22 RF and a 12 Ga) a country boy can survive, even in Alaska or Africa.
If you had to get it down to one firearm: No, not a .375, instead, a .458 Win. Mag. with all sorts of loads, including slugs, buck shot and bird shot.

Rip ...

To get to 304 pages may require shotgun patterning of the .458 with ball and shot loads, sabot loads, etc.
Pip pip cheerio!

Rip ...

Edit on 3-31-2019:
The .458 WIN LongCOL was officially homologated by R.I.P. (Riflecrank Internationale Permanente) certification on 3-30-2018.
The .45-100 Sharps Winchester Throat 2.6-Inch aka "The .458 WIN Twin Flanged" (.458 WTF) was officially homologated,
by R.I.P. certification, on 03-30-2019.

I've had too many head and neck injuries to want to make a practice of shooting 400 gr bullets at 2500 fps from a 9 lb rifle.
Not that I can't, just not as fun as a 400 at 2150-2200 fps.

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
Not to take Anything away from either the 458 or the 416 Ruger. But I Really like the 416 Taylor. Would like a stainless 17" barreled one set up as a Scout Rifle.

Just take 2-3 grains of powder out of a 416 Ruger and you have the Taylor.
At the 41 caliber level, the Ruger does it all unless a person wants to handload the big Rigby capacity to Weatherby levels.

So here is a question, what could you do with a 458Win, rechambered to a Ruger case?
How much shoulder do you need for headspace? Ruger basic brass is easy to come by. The process would be so easy, it almost wouldn't qualify as wildcat.

If the shoulder would work, should it be left where the 416Ruger is (producing about a .36" neck if using 416 brass), or pushed back 0.07" for the larger bullets in adapted 416 brass?

Alternatively, Ruger Basic is 2.657" long and could be sized and trimmed to 2.65", leaving about 0.44" length for a neck using the 416Ruger shoulder (2.179" plus about .03" from reduced shoulder height). Good? (That would mean that if 416 brass were necked up, the cases would be about 0.07" short, which is rather long for normal reloading but way way within bounds in comparison to people who shoot a 458Win in a Lott chamber.)

RUGER BASIC BRASS would be the best solution, leaving the shoulder at the same height as the 416Ruger. The result? Lott brass capacity with WinMag platform flexibility.

one might just get that done

cost up- no belt -more volume - more recoil - wild cat rig

question is why

what can you hope to achieve over a standard 458 win mag OF SIGNIFICANT PURPOSE

the world asks

550 grain woodleigh in the 458 win mag hits hard enough to kill you in not very many shots

quote:

Originally posted by stradling:
one might just get that done

cost up- no belt -more volume - more recoil - wild cat rig

question is why
what can you hope to achieve over a standard 458 win mag OF SIGNIFICANT PURPOSE
the world asks

550 grain woodleigh in the 458 win mag hits hard enough to kill you in not very many shots

I guess I like hunting at 2600fps over 2500fps, having spent a lifetime at 2800fps+.

I like the 338Wm over the Federal and 338-06. Almost flat to 300 yards.
I like the hand loaded 416Rigby over the 416Ruger. (But I'm willing to reconsider if I get tired of the recoil and heavy rifle.)
On paper, I prefer the 30-06 over the 308. (The 308 is great for impala and such, but 30-06 does better with heavier bullets for larger animals.)

We may be closer than you think on smaller bore.
On 375 I prefer the Ruger over the 378Weatherby.
In 33 I really like the 338WM, but you could talk me into something bigger if the rifle was light.
On 30-cal I am happy with a 30-06 over a 300WM and prefer the 338WM for larger animals.
On 270/7mm, I'll take the 270Win and 280Rem over the magnums. (Yes, really. If I want over 150 grains I would prefer a larger caliber. With light bullets the 270 acts like a magnum.)
The 260 and the Swede over the 264.
The 257Roberts over the 25-06. (Just 'cuz the Bob is cool. )
The 243Win over the 244Rem, but the Bob over the 243.
The 223 over the 22-250. The 223 does spur-wing geese just fine. (Back in the day we used 222.)

416Tanzan, stradling, and CTF,

Thanks for the replies, all appreciated in helping us get to page 304.
In fact, all jackaloping is much appreciated.
By exploring alternatives to the .458 Winchester Magnum, we will surely come to appreciate its magic even more.

I am saddling up to ride the .458 Ruger jackalope for a while:







Rip ...

You're fortunate that you didn't follow up on that 458 Ruger or else you might not have started riding your 458 Win Jackalope.

PS: Of course, you probably didn't have Ruger Basic to work with back in 2007. It would be nice to see a 458 Ruger put through the paces with a 400gn GSC. I'm guessing 2600fps.

Colonel Whelen approves

It will do anything the Lott will. With my CZ 550 Win mag factory rechambered to Lott.
85 gr of AA 2230 pushing a moly tumbled 400 gr KBC.
85 gr = 2550
2561
86 gr = 2589
2574
87 gr = 2558
2560
These 87 gr loads were loaded with WLRM primers.
The 85 + 86 gr ones I used Fed 215s.
Didn't have any max pressure signs.
I shot these with the factory CZ Express sights. Offhand. At 80 paces to the stump I nailed a paper plate to I had an 8 " group. Nothing to write home about, but I was satisfied it would bust the rat s--- out of a brown bear.
Which leads me to the ? Of why such a long barrel.
I spent a fair amount of time with that rifle in the brush. Now for me , it was just another homesteaders rifle. Which isn't the case with a hunting client. One time I took it with me picking blue berrys. Southeast high bush. It was a bit unwieldy having 2, 5 gallon buckets of berrys and that rifle. I had to leave 1 bucket on a stump and pack the other out . Then come back for the cached one. An opportunistic brown bear almost beat me to it. But I was able to run it off with no shots fired. :-(
Shoulda squeaked it in and blown it off its feet. But , I didn't want to deal with a stinky bear that day. Had almost a winters worth of pancake blue berrys to get put up.

I traded that rifle to a friend that found out first hand that I wasn't fooling about the 8 Fathom/Neka Bay bears. He discovered a need for a elephant rifle with expanding bullets and kept pestering me for it. I made out like a bandit on the trade so it went down the bay.

CTF,
That is some interesting AA-2230 data on 400-grainer in .458 Lott.
You can thank the .458 Win. Mag. throat on your .458 Lott re-chamber for that.

.458 Win. Mag. 3.495" COL: 400-grain HV and only 83.0 grains of AA-2230 gave 2542 fps MV, corrected from 5-yard velocity, 2530 fps at 5 yards.
And my barrel was a 1/8" shorter CZ barrel.

So factoring in the 1/8" difference in barrel length in your favor, and assuming you are reporting 5-yard chrono velocity,
Three extra grains of powder got you only about 50 fps with the Lott.

You did well to sell the CZ .458 Lott.
That is what I did with mine.
Mine had the old CIP spec throat that was throated identically to the .458 Win. Mag., on top of the 0.300" extra Lott length.
One can get too much of a good thing.
The best CZ .458 Lott is one done on a SAAMI-spec .458 Win. Mag. using the current CIP/SAAMI spec Lott reamer with the latest, short, Lott throat.

Which reminds me that any SAAMI .458 Win. Mag. could be rechambered to .458/.375 Ruger, and leave the residual .458 Win. Mag. throat,
without any throat enlargement/lengthening,
sitting on top of that .375 Ruger-length chamber.
That could be good.



I could ride that Jackalope ... at least make another dummy,
now that I have .416 Ruger brass to neck up to .458.
Maybe easier concentricity with that.
I only had .375 Ruger brass in 2007 and I boogered that one dummy in necking it up, off center.

Rip ...

RIP, 38 pages on the .458 Win mag.
Wow.

Well, if anything else you get 10 out-a 10 from me for your commitment to vanilla ice-cream.

Not that there's anything wrong with it (like a lot of other things in life), modern powders and projectiles doing it no harm, no doubt.

I admire your dedication to resurrecting the "meat-loaf" of big game cartridges

I know the punky finger bunch would prefer something rimmed with 2 barrels.
But, the amount of snort that the Win mag has for being so " diminutive" is pretty amazing.
I've never considered it plain or vanilla.
Just an all around great cartridge.
I will freely admit that one of my attractions to the 458 WM is that I can make brass for it from almost Any .532 empties. 7 mag, 300 Whby, 375 H&H, ect ect.
I've been thinking I want to get a 410 shotgun for some pesky squirrels around the cabin this summer. But I think I'll just get a bag of 410 shot cups and see what I can make.
Turn my bear rifle into a grouse gun !

That would get the pinky finger crowd fit to be tied .
Stainless barreled , bolt action. Canoe paddle stocked , with a 1-6 power 30 mm tactical scope on it . and go shoot some grouse

Paul,
Thanks for the reply.
"Best meatloaf recipe" is a great analogy for the .458 Win. Mag., spiced up with a little longer COL.
However, I resemble the "plain vanilla" remark!
Plain vanilla can only be said of a .30-06 with 220-grainer @ 2400 fps, as a training rifle!
Ye olde Winchester Silvertip: BC of 0.380, MV of 2410 fps. Pretty close to desired trajectory.

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
That would get the pinky finger crowd fit to be tied .
Stainless barreled , bolt action. Canoe paddle stocked, with a 1-6 power 30 mm tactical scope on it . and go shoot some grouse

CTF,
That is a spicy meatloaf recipe. Very hot!
And thanks for the "extended punky finger" idea as a descriptor for the DR crowd.

The .458/.375 Ruger with SAAMI .458 Win. Mag. throat is resurrected on Easter 2018.
Call it the ".458 Jesus."
Son of the .458 Winchester Magnum.
No sacrilege meant, just no greater compliment to a wildcat.

Rip ...

A guy would have to invest a BUNCH of $$$$$ in brass for it tho. Not sure it would produce enough more desired results than the Win mag.
Just using the 400 gr GS HV in the Win mag pretty much resolves the longer close range issue.

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
A guy would have to invest a BUNCH of $$$$$ in brass for it tho. Not sure it would produce enough more desired results than the Win mag.
Just using the 400 gr GS HV in the Win mag pretty much resolves the longer close range issue.

Yep,
The ".458 Jesus" may become the ".458 Holy Ghost."
No sacrilege intended.
Just something to strive for.

Rip ...

RIP--

Powder Valley has Ruger Basic brass in stock. $44.40 for box of 50. It's listed under "375Ruger" for some strange reason.

http://www.powder-valley.com/p...ASS/375%20RUGER.aspx

It's ironic because they are out of stock of 458WM brass, both Hornady ($56) and Winchester ($43).

416Tanzan,

You are contributing to the delinquency of the elderly.

Rip ...

458 April Fools?
458 Wannabe? Nah, no belt or double radius shoulder/neck
458 Newton?

With all honesty, what's the expected performance of the .458 Ruger out of a 20"/24" barrel?

Won't replace mine, no sir, but this cartridge makes sense despite the shallow shoulder which I don't like much