Trick or Treat,Smell my Feet,Give me Something Good to Eat!

shootaway,

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Hopefully I can find some pumpkins as targets to test the "hydrostatic shock" of the .458/300-grain TTSX at +2800 fps.
Might make a good "Lion Load."

Rip
.

The 300 gr.X +TSX. @ 2700 fps mv so far has worked excellently on both black and brown bear. Puts a hole thru the bear that you can look thru.

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
The 300 gr.X +TSX. @ 2700 fps mv so far has worked excellently on both black and brown bear. Puts a hole thru the bear that you can look thru.

Yup-yup-yup ... Lion Load AND Bear Load.

Heck, forgot to call Bartlein again!

Rip
.

The .458 WinMag is just too much fun.
RELOADING Hodgdon 2017 Annual Manual
has some pressure data for the 300-gr Barnes TSX and TTSX BT,
24" barrel (Twist 1:14"), WW case (2.490"), CCI 250 primer LRM:

Bullet: 300 GR BAR TSX Dia: .458" Col: 3.200"
H4198 76.0 gr (Compressed) >>> 2793 fps <<< 51,300 CUP

Bullet: 300 GR BAR TTSX BT Dia: .458" Col: 3.300"
H4198 72.5 gr (Compressed) >>> 2720 fps <<< 49,100 CUP

SAAMI max average pressure (MAP) is 53,000 CUP
and also established for the .458 WinMag is 60,000 PSI MAP.

The poor ol' .458 Lott has no CUP standard but has a SAAMI MAP of 62,500 PSI.
That is because it has such a short throat that it gets red in the face
trying to keep up with the .458 WinMag.

Rip
.

Like !
Thanks for posting that.

Having too much fun here ...
I have a "ton" of Sierra .458/300-gr Pro Hunter hollow points.
Always meant to plink with those in a .458 WinMag.
Never did, got side-tracked by wildcattin'.
I will load those up hot with H4198,
and see by how much I can exceed the Sierra Reloading Manual.
Speed with some semblance of accuracy, hopefully.
Even if the bullet should not be used for hunting at faster than 2500 fps MV,
that won't matter for plinking.

And before I begin blasting with GSC HV .458/400-grainers,
I have another "ton" of Speer .458/400-grainers to plink with ...
Almost forgot that "ton" of Hornady .458/350-grainers,
and a "ton" of North Fork .458/450-grainers ...
Just too much fun.
At least a ton of fun.

Rip
.

Kids,

Don't try this at home without adult supervision:



Rip
.

CTF,

I talked to Mark at Bartlein, yesterday and today:

https://bartleinbarrels.com/

He conferred with sumbuddy who know and called me back today.

The basic price for a barrel of .224 to .338-caliber is $345, chrome-moly or stainless (416 IIRC, same stainless as Krieger uses),
up to 29" long, which can be finished to 28".
They are so good that you only need to cut an inch off the muzzle end to crown,
not 1.5" as with Douglas.

For $485, $140 extra, they will do a .458-caliber.
In stainless, the minimum contour they will do is their "#4 Bull Sporter" which would be similar to a #6 sporter contour from PacNor.
Anyway, it is heavier than the usual #5 sporter I was thinking would be perfect.

Gain Twist:
They could do something as special as going from 1:20" to 1:15",
but that would require paying for some tooling, only $200 extra.
But wait, there is another extra $200 charge for the machine time to do the gain-twist barrel,
which would take half a day to do one barrel.
That gets me up to $885.
If I wanted 5R rifling that would probably be another $200.
Maybe $1085 for a barrel.
And the time to delivery is 6 to 8 months.
I do not think it would be worth the time and money versus a standard-offer barrel, 1:14" twist, stainless, #5 sporter, from any of several makers.

You got your "Spruce King" Ruger 3.4" stainless,
I think I want an "Alder Queen" Winchester 3.6" stainless.

Rip
.

Sheesh, and to think this thread started out just trying to verify if using modern powders would result in a non compressed load at advertised velocity.

Keep it going!

Answer A?
A:

Or answer B?
B:


That is a multiple choice question with a monkey score of 50%

Rip
.

Disappointed that the weather is not cooperating with the shooting.
Will work my way up from 300-grainers to 600-grainers eventually.

Rip
.

The Low Cost Dangerous Game Rifle


By Randy D. Smith


Safari rifles
Custom .458 (top), Ruger .375 African (bottom). Photo by Randy D. Smith.
My next expensive hunt will be a seven-day African Cape buffalo effort. Short term, seven to ten day, specialized African hunts are what most Americans undertake, usually involving some sort of plains game package. I will concentrate on taking a buffalo, but I might end up in a situation where I have a few days on my hands and want to hunt something else. A versatile big game rifle is the best choice for these circumstances.

Choosing a moderately priced safari rifle can be a challenge. Many dangerous game bolt action rifles can cost up to half of my total budget. A hunter needs to ask just how much such a rifle will be used. If all you are going to do is to take one or two hunts, do you really need to spend more than $1,500 on a dangerous game rifle? You will, after all, be backed up by a professional hunter and his equipment in Africa.

I experimented with several moderately priced new and used bolt actions over a four year period. I bought, sold and borrowed these rifles to satisfy my driving curiosity. I learned a lot and eventually settled on a .375 Ruger African and a customized Ruger .458 Winchester Magnum. I’d like to share some opinions with you, based on my experiences. Of course, no matter what conclusions I drew from my experiences, there are any number of people who will disagree for sundry good reasons.

When it comes to African hunts, most people will tell you to take at least two rifles. Taking a "classic" battery of three rifles is expensive and in our age of short term, limited bag safaris, usually unnecessary. Taking one is viable, but there is always the risk of the rifle failing in the field. While I believe that the odds of modern rifle failure are slim, like so many others, I chose to take two. I am taking two for another reason. It is a mental thing and a confidence issue, but I do not shoot borrowed rifles worth a damn. I shoot much better with a familiar rifle that is loaded with cartridges that I have tested.

It is advised that both of the rifles be chambered for dangerous game calibers legal for the country in which you are hunting. These should be common calibers. The most commonly recommended calibers for a two rifle battery by professional hunters responding to a recent Craig Boddington inquiry were .416 and .375. .375 is a top professional hunter recommendation for a single gun, two-gun and three-gun safari battery. It is generally suggested that the .375 H&H is adequate for all African game. It is the premier all purpose African load. A .375 is also more practical for hunting heavy or dangerous North American game (bison, moose and the great bears). The .375 H&H has a trajectory similar to a .30-06 shooting heavy bullets, but packs much more energy.

I usually purchase test rifles and keep them for a while to not only see how they function, but also how they hold up to field use. Many rifles have looked good coming out of the box and then failed to measure up in the field. I prefer the flexibility of buying a rifle rather than using a company sample on a short term basis. I can usually tell after one deer season whether I want to recommend a rifle and/or keep it. You cannot tell what a rifle is really capable of by shooting a box or two of shells or from a single hunting experience. Since I take good care of them, I seldom lose much money. Generally, I break even, or close enough to call it so.

A major issue I had with a number of rifles was with what I call “responsiveness.” While accuracy is important, I believe that handling qualities are equally, if not more, critical. Another issue is dependability. If I have a big game rifle that will feed and fire every time and handle in a responsive manner, pinpoint accuracy is much less important. I have heard from guys who claim they would not hunt with anything that won’t print MOA groups. I’ll hunt with a responsive, dependable rifle that can only produce three or four inch groups any day over an awkward or finicky MOA rifle. I consider bench rest accuracy to be third or fourth down on my list of desirable traits. (Amen! - Ed.)

I have read the argument advocating controlled round feed over push feed in a bolt action dangerous game rifle. I believe that controlled round feed is a fine feature. Push feed rifles can be very quick and essentially fool proof. If the rifle is responsive, dependable and acceptably accurate, I don’t care whether it is push feed or controlled round feed.

I fooled with some inexpensive Model 98 Mauser .458 Winchester Magnum conversions. I bought some of these rifles for as little as $450. I found that I could purchase very good used .458’s for much less than .375’s, .338’s, or any of the Weatherby calibers. There are more of them out there and most shooters quickly find that they can't stand the recoil. The problem with .458 conversion rifles is that many do not hold up under sustained use. Cartridges do not feed properly. Sights and magazine floor plates often failed to hold under recoil. I usually ended up with at least $700 in all of these rifles without completely correcting the problems.

One strategy is to buy a solid, no frills, new rifle and have it upgraded or refined by a competent gunsmith. New CZ, Ruger Hawkeye, Remington, Savage, and some other moderate cost dangerous game rifles can be purchased for less than $1,000. For a couple of hundred bucks, a good gunsmith can tune the action and refine the trigger. A person can end up with a very good rifle at fairly modest cost.

There are many pristine .458 and .375 rifles on the used gun market. I have examined a number of twenty and thirty year old big game rifles that probably were not fired a dozen times. Consider making an effort to find one of the bargain high end used rifles that are out there from Browning, Winchester, Ruger Safari Magnum and Weatherby. There are some bargains because heavy calibers are not shot a lot by most hunters and after a few hard recoiling shooting sessions, some folks just want to get rid of them.

Another consideration involves the total number of heavy game rifles in the .40 caliber or larger class that are on the market right now. New rifles in this class are being sold in a far higher proportion than are being seriously used. These big rifles very seldom see much use because there are simply not that many appropriate hunting opportunities.

I committed to a .458 Winchester Magnum for my primary buffalo rifle early on. The big decision for me was what to use as a "light" rifle. I was originally torn between the .375 H&H and the .300 Weatherby. Which I chose depended on where I would end up hunting. If it was Namibia, I planned to take a .300 Weatherby, because there plains game is generally taken at longer range and even though the Weatherby would not be a good choice for buffalo, it would be nearly perfect for everything else. I felt that a .375 was better for Zimbabwe and Mozambique. However, after shooting the .375 at various ranges, I ruled the Weatherby out. A .375 has all the range capability that I am likely to need.

I tried a .376 Steyr SBS Pro Hunter in the field and a .376 Steyr Scout at the range when the round first appeared. The .376 Steyr is a wonderful big game cartridge. Recoil is comparatively moderate and accuracy is very good. Because of cartridge base and rim dimensions, however, the .376 Steyr cartridge will probably not be chambered in mainstream American rifles. The Steyr rifles are a bit Teutonic for my tastes. I thought that the Steyr SBS rifle was slow on repeat shots and I simply did not care for the butter knife bolt handle. I hunted one whitetail season with the SBS Pro Hunter and sold it. The Scout version is out of my price range.

I hunted deer, elk, and feral hogs with a restored 9.3X62 Model 96 Husqvarna. It was a beautiful handling, accurate rifle. I loved the way the round performed. The magazine box was short for most modern 9.3X62 factory loads and unless the soft points were shaved, they often hung up. Unfortunately, although adequate, the 9.3X62 is not accepted in some countries as a legal dangerous game round. I moved on to other rifles because of the magazine issue and to the availability and convenience of other rounds. There are some excellent CZ 9.3X62 rifles on the American market, however, that function perfectly with modern ammunition.

I tried CZ Model 550’s in .458 Lott and .458 Win Mag. The number one South African professional choice that I observed was the BRNO 602, which is the same basic rifle with a Euro style stock. The 550 is a good, modestly priced rifle. Both of my examples hold five rounds and feed very well. Both could have stood some more polish and finish work. Bolt travel is gritty and bolt throw is long. They were accurate and handled heavy recoil very well. I believe that the standard set trigger is practical for many situations. The open sights are robust and generally practical.

I had difficulty getting any scope rings to hold on either rifle and elected to hunt with open sights only. The Lott is simply more cartridge than I want or need. I can tolerate the recoil of a .458 Win. Mag. much better. Hornady .458 Win. Mag. Dangerous Game factory loads are only 50 FPS slower than the Lott. .458 Winchester Magnum ammunition failure is no longer an issue. With that said, the magazine on both rifles is magnum length and .458 Win Mag cartridges tend to unevenly work forward under recoil, a situation that could present some problems in the field. The only reason I did not choose the .458 Win. Mag. CZ 550 is that I liked another .458 Win Mag better. I had no problems with it that could not have been solved by my gunsmith.

I shot Weatherby Mark V rifles in .460 Weatherby and .378 Weatherby. It is a beautiful rifle and these are fantastic rounds . . . for someone else. While I found the .458 Lott uncomfortable, the Weatherby cartridges were punishing. I seriously considered a Mark V Dangerous Game rifle in .458 Winchester Magnum, but I found a similar .458 at a much lower price, so I did not pursue the DGR. However, it would be a good choice.

I borrowed a Ruger No.1 Tropical in .416 Rigby and bought a used No. 1 Tropical in .458 Winchester Magnum. I did not like .416 Rigby recoil in this rifle and the round is very expensive to shoot if you are not a reloader. I liked the .458 Win. Mag. Ruger No. 1 in spite of poor open sights, but there were too many experienced guys who told me to stay with a bolt action for dangerous game. Still, I gave the No. 1 serious consideration. It is dependable, a pleasure to carry, accurate and handles the .458 Winchester Magnum round very well.

re post from old coot

There are some things you should know about the 458's 1. They are throated very deep for the 500 gr solids, and the give some extra freebore to deal with the expected pressure rise due to the higher temperatures in Africa. 2. The are chambered with Plenty of room around the case neck. 3. Most will have a groove diameter of .459 to .461, so slug your barrel.
I got acceptable accuracy out of 45gr of the old 2400 behind a 300gr. half jacket or cast bullet(sized .460 in mine) with the rest of the case filled with COW to the bullet base. I got excellent accuracy with Lymans GC 550 bullet sized to .460 and 68gr. of IMR3031. Not a load for the recoil sensitive. I loaded two REMCO 45 Colt shot caps on top of 12gr.Unique and they would kill birds at 25yds, but you had to do this in unsized cases. I have also heard of people using 3" .410 wads and an over shot card wad. I tried round balls, but couldn't get any large enough to get decent accuracy.
The .458 win is a remarkably versatile cartridge for what it is.
Brodie

Nzou
.375 H&H vs. .458 Win Mag
Hi there, I would like to know from you guys what you think would be the preferred rifle for a trail-guide in Africa. I have left out .470s, .500s or any doubles, or powerful wildcat bolt-rifles as they are out of the reach of the average guide. I would have thrown the .458 Lott into the equation, and it would probably be my favourite choice with reservations. I am referring to someone, who probably does not have access to reloads, and who would use either of these calibres with most likely factory ammo (I am assuming most guides do not reload).

I am speaking for the average guide, who does not earn a huge salary, and would have to spend extra money (which he probably does not have) reaming out a Win Mag to a Lott and who also may have to rely on factory ammo. It would be my guess that a great majority of guides probably use these 2 calibres the most?

It is partly a rhetorical question, because, I would think the .458 would probably be a better choice in a guide's situation, (ie no time for messing around, make or break, having to shoot at the last minute and needing to stop the charge then and there). The only thing is, firstly, .458 ammo is quite a bit more expensive than .375 ammo, and for someone who does not enjoy shooting a heavy recoiling rifle often, the .375 may be the better choice maybe? Secondly or thirdly, if you miss the brain of a charging beast with a solid bullet, be it a lion, buff or elephant, (or other) will it be enough to stop or turn the charge and would the advantage of the .458 be enough over the .375 to warrant it's place as first choice?

not everyone can handle the recoil from a 458 win mag

this gal can and hits what she points at

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw-SJLjUzMQ

notice how she keeps her arm down so as to keep some meat between the gun and the little lady

not her first go w the big boys

just incase you have purchased to much gun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRIrUcBONYw

not as bad as you guys think it looks

Stradling,

Much appreciated, The Mission must go on.
There was a reminder to slug the bore above, and I have been meaning to do that to the WinCzechster. Will do.
That sure is a cute young lady in the Youtube videos, very endearing in the way she handles a .458 WinMag.
I particularly enjoyed the way her hair stands up in recoil.
Thanks for that too.

Now to turn the page with one picture per post to follow.
For The Mission!

Rip
.

The rain let up and the wind did not blow the chronograph over.
I was limited to a 50-yard target again yesterday, due to range terrain and positions available.
And I am limited to 3-shot groups for economic and impatience reasons.

This is my start on the light, jacketed loads for that grand old bastard of the big bores,
the .458 Winchester Magnum:



That was the best group of the day,
the first 3 shots with the TTSX and H4198 in the WinCzechster.
That kind of makes an untruth of the claim that all .458 WinMags are inaccurate.
Next, the worst ...

I started off with the Sierra .458/300gr Pro-Hunter FNHP,
3 shots at 50 yards, with each 1-grain increment of H4198 from 71.0 to 75.0 grains:

The first 3 Pro-Hunters (71.0 grains of H4198) were used to get on paper, continuing with the next 9 to adjust the scope:

The last 3 Pro-Hunters were saved until after the scope was further adjusted during the shooting of the 15 TTSX bullets,
so here are the last 3 shots of thirty:

Here are the 15 holes in paper from the Barnes TTSXs and H4198, 71.0 to 75.0 grains in 1-grain increments:

The best group was the slowest:

The rest of the TTSXs:
Sometimes two would go in one hole but the third shot was either pulled right by me,
or drifted by a gust of wind.
The wind was blowing from left to right, as usual there at the range.
Yep, that is my excuse, and I am sticking to it:

And an analysis of the data with comparison to Hodgdon pressure data:

Trying to estimate pressures:
Are my velocities slower than Hodgdon's due to my rifle being looser?
My pressures (and velocities) would be lower for any given powder charge, if so.
Or maybe it is something else, and my pressures are higher?
Hence I gave two pressure estimates, on my TTSX loads,
for my own guessification.

I better go slug my bore now, to see if the grooves are big,
though it could be powder lot variation or the primer switcheroo by me, etc. ...

Rip
.

So now I need to load the TTSX with 71.0 grains of H4198 and shoot it at 100 yards and 300 yards,
to see if it behaves lke it has a BC of 0.236.
Bore-slug in-coming.

Rip
.

Stradling,

Thanks, for my information, my WinCzechster (with CZ barrel, for the many who do not care)
has a groove diameter of .459" by lead slug.
It is a bit loose compared to a pressure-test barrel.
The minimum groove diameter is same for the .458 WinMag as for the .458 Lott.
Same in SAAMI as in CIP:
Groove minimum = 0.458" (11.63mm)
Bore minimum = 0.450" (11.43mm)

SAAMI bullet diameter spec is maximum of .4590" (-0.0030")
or metric 11.659mm (-0.076mm)

For The Mission!

Rip
.

A Ross Seyfried article in RIFLE No. 204, Nov.-Dec. 2002, puzzled over the Hornady rollout of the .458 Lott:



The data above was checked by me against the 2003 and 2016 Hornady manuals, 6th and 10th editions.
No change despite the new 500-grain bullets since then, now DGS and DGX,
might be the same for the new bonded DGX.
But, Hornady factory .458 Lott ammo claims 2300 fps with the 500-grainers.
Says so right there on the box.

Rip
.

There are only three possible factors to consider in the above table:

1. Twist difference:
.458 Lott twist was 1:10".
.458 WinMag twist was 1:14".
Not a significant factor.
If the twist had been quickened to 1:7" in the .458 Lott, the difference in pressure would be less than one-half of one percent which is less than 300 PSI.
No handicap to the 1:10" twist .458 Lott.
Insignificant.
Not a factor.

2. Brasss case make difference:
I have checked the Hornady .458 basic cylindrical brass made into .375 Wby brass by fire-forming,
versus the WW-Super .375 H&H brass made into .375 Wby by fire-forming.
If they are trimmed to the same length, they are very close to the same internal capacity,
and both are lesser capacity than Norma-made .375 Wby brass.
Insignificant.
Not a factor.

3. Throat differences between the .458 Lott and .458 WinMag:
Bingo!
That is the only significant factor.

Rip
.

In the table above:

The loads were worked up in the Hornady ballistics lab,
in 50 fps increments with the 500-grain FMJ "solid."
They do not exceed 62,000 PSI for the .458 Lott,
according to the Seyfried commentary.
He was quoting the Hornady "ballistician."
The SAAMI MAP for the .458 Lott is 62,500 PSI.

I am left to assume that the .458 Winchester Magnum loads worked up by the Hornady ballistician
are less than or equal to 60,000 PSI.
The SAAMI MAP for the .458 Winchester Magnum is 60,000 PSI.

Once again, this demonstrates the greater efficiency of the .458 WinMag factory load.
It does not exceed 60,000 psi, unlike the red-in-the-face .458 Lott might, just to equal the .458 WinMag.

Rip
.

Consider the H4895 loads in the table above, with 500-grainer:

3.600" COL .458 Lott: 74.2 grains (Maximum) >>> 2150 fps <<< 62,000 PSI

3.340" COL .458 WinMag: 75.7 grains (Maximum) >>> 2150 fps <<< 60,000 PSI

A different kind of efficiency:
The .458 WinMag requires 1.5 grains more powder, but does it in a 30-06 action instead of a .375 H&H action,
and does it at lower pressure.

Accuracy issues caused by the long throat of the SAAMI .458 WinMag can be overcome with proper handloads.
We showed that with cast bullets:



We are working on that now with jacketed bullets.

Rip
.

RIP, I admire your dedication to the .458 Win mag

Although I have never personally owned one I have guided quite a few buffalo hunters who were using one at the time and have a lot of respect for the cartridge which has no doubt been "invigorated" with today's modern powders and projectiles.

I'd like to suggest that it is my impression, whilst in the field, is that (despite the "old-school" heavy for caliber lead projectiles) the 450gn bullet weight at 2200fps, in something like a North Fork, G.S Custom, Rhino, C.E.B et all, turns the Win mag in to another beast.

Certainly not dictating to anyone in what you use but just a consideration for you .458 Win mag shooters that a solidly constructed 450gner is the "ducks-guts" in this cartridge.

Paul,

Thanks for the reply. Good point on bullet weight.

450-grainers: Why stop at 2200 fps?
That is routine 500-grainer velocity for the .458 WinMag Shortclaw 3.4".

I agree that .458/450-grainer is about ideal, SD = 0.3065,
greater than the proven GREAT .375/300-grainer, SD = 0.3048.

I am just wondering if I can get those 450-grainers up to 2400 fps in a .458 WinMag Longclaw 3.6" with 25" barrel?

When Mike Brady sold North Fork, I bought a lot of his "old-stock" .458/450-grainers on hand,
like the Ogived-FN solid they don't make anymore.

I have plenty of 450-grain bullets to work with.

Rip
.

Recoil review shows the current .458 WinMag 300-grain accuracy load being considered (5.0 lb-sec recoil impulse)
kicks like a .375 H&H 300-grain classic load (4.9 lb-sec recoil impulse).
Changing rifle weight can adjust any recoil impulse to tolerability,
but the recoil impulse does not change with the rifle weight.
Assume 10-pound rifle weight for all loads,
for a mental comparison of the kick potential:

http://www.jbmballistics.com/c...in/jbmrecoil-5.1.cgi

500 Mbogo 3-Inch aka .50-'08
570-grain Hornady DGX bullet
123.0 grains H-4350
2364 fps
Recoil Impulse = 8.5 lb-sec
In 10-pound rifle:
Recoil Energy = 117.6 ft-lbs
Recoil Velocity = 27.5 fps

470 Mbogo
500-grain Barnes Original RNSP bullet
116.0 grains RELODER-15
2710 fps
Recoil Impulse = 8.4 lb-sec
In 10-pound rifle:
Recoil Energy = 114.5 ft-lbs
Recoil Velocity = 27.1 fps

500 Mbogo 3-Inch aka .50-'08
450-grain GS Custom HV bullet
115.0 grains BENCHMARK
2848 fps
Recoil Impulse = 8.1 lb-sec
In 10-pound rifle:
Recoil Energy = 105.3 ft-lbs
Recoil Velocity = 26.0 fps

460 WbyMag plinking load that is comfortable in the factory Wby Mark V Deluxe (about 10 pounds dry and braked):
500-grain bullet
115 grains powder
2500 fps
Recoil Impulse = 8.0 lb-sec

Old standard .458 WinMag DGR load (comfortable in non-braked 10-pounder):
500-grain Hornady RNSP
71.0 grains IMR-3031
2150 fps
Recoil Impulse = 6.3 lb-sec
In 10-pound rifle:
Recoil Energy = 62.9 ft-lbs
Recoil Velocity = 20.1 fps

.458 WinMag, Western Powders Reloading & Load Data Guide Edition 6.0:
400-grain Barnes SSSP bullet
76.0 grains AA-2015
2468 fps
Recoil Impulse = 6.0 lb-sec

Bob Mitchell's .458 WinMag CZ Loaded for Bear and Moose:
350-grain TSX bullet
80.0 grains H4198
2760 fps
Recoil Impulse = 6.0 lb-sec

.375/404 Jeffery Saeed of 2012:
300-grain GSC HV
87.0 grains H4350
2759 fps
Recoil Impulse = 5.5 lb-sec

400 Whelen-Petrov-Berry 3.6" of 2013:
400-grain Woodleigh WC-RNSP
60.0 grains H4895
2209 fps
Recoil Impulse = 5.2 lb-sec

Mike's .458 WinMag varmint load for 'roos:
400-grain Speer FNSP
70.0 grains IMR-4064
2000 fps
Recoil Impulse = 5.0 lb-sec


Above pictured .458 Load:
300-grain bullet
71.0 grains powder
2638 fps
Recoil Impulse = 5.0 lb-sec
(10-pound scoped and loaded rifle: 40.1 ft-lbs recoil energy @ 16.1 fps recoil velocity)
Subjectively, to me, it has less kick than a .375 H&H, very comfortable to shoot in the WinCzechster.
The WinCzechster weighs 8#2oz "dry."
As pictured (minus the sling) and loaded with 4 rounds of ammo: 10#6oz
Recoil Impulse = 5.0 lb-sec
(10.375-pound scoped and loaded rifle: 38.7 ft-lbs recoil energy @ 15.5 fps recoil velocity)

Whippy 25" barrel is only 0.670" diameter under the barrel band:



.375 H&H Classic Load:
300-grain bullet
72.0 grains powder
2530 fps
Recoil Impulse = 4.9 lb-sec

.458 WinMag PC-Government Cast Bullet Load:
487-grain bullet
36.0 grains powder
1436 fps
Recoil Impulse = 3.9 lb-sec

.30-06 Classic Load
180-grain bullet
57.0 grains powder
2700 fps
Recoil Impulse = 3.3 lb-sec

Rip
.