quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Gustavo,
I sort of get it, but I would rather call it the ".458 Vampire Hunter" not the evil sounding ".458 Vampire."
Remember "Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter" the book and movie?
That had a cool ring to it.

I am hoping to shoot the HV tomorrow, if the weather prediction is correct.
Taking some sandbags to hold a ProChrono down if the wind blows:

I also have some .475 Linebaugh LongCOL loads to try.

.458 Winchester Magnum Longclaw: The Bastard King in the North

.475 Linebaugh LongCOL: The World's Most Powerful Dwarf

Game of Rifles.
Summer is coming.

Rip ...

RIP,

Liked your proposal a lot. "458 Vampire Hunter" ...as cool as it gets seal it as APPROVED FOR RELEASE!

Never read the book but certainly enjoyed the movie a lot.

I'm envy green...my "jungle carbine" cannot fire the LC variant!

Can we call it the “Uber Douber Even Creedier than the Creediest of the Creedmores”? Oh pretty pretty pleeeez! We could call it the “11.63 Creed” for short.

ismith,
I know you are giddy about your new 25"-barreled "fly rod" in the works, but that last suggestion is not going to "fly" for marketing purposes.
Sounds like a satanic bible verse location.
But it do suggest that the .458 Winner can creed more. And it certainly can.

Rip

Gustavo,
You certainly can shoot .458 Wn.Mag. Longclaw loads in your rifle.
They may not be the Longestclaw, but they can certainly be Longerclaw.
With your 3.4" box, you can surely exceed SAAMI COL a bit and function through the magazine,
if you have a SAAMI throat.
I bet you can single-load them up to 3.595" and even eject the unfired, 3.595" cartridge.
You can even single load a 3.780" 500-grain Barnes TSX, but you will have to fire it to eject it without removing the bolt.
That last trick is not practical.
It qualifies as stunt shooting, or "just-for-the-heck-of-it" shooting.

Rip ...

.458 Win.Mag. Longclaw loads can be started with maximal SAAMI .458 Win.Mag. Shortclaw loads.
Nevertheless I thought I would step down a bit from that for the AA-2230 load to start with the HV 400-grainer: 80, 81, and 82 grains of AA-2230.

With AA-2200, which is a touch faster than AA-2015, I am really flying by the seat of my pants.
76, 77, and 78 grains to start there.
Prospecting for gold.

With a BC of 0.372 at 2500 fps,
the 5-yard chronograph reading I am looking for is 2489 fps or higher.

10 more replies and we will turn the page.
For The MISSION!

Rip

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
ismith,
I know you are giddy about your new 25"-barreled "fly rod" in the works, but that last suggestion is not going to "fly" for marketing purposes.
Sounds like a satanic bible verse location.
But it do suggest that the .458 Winner can creed more. And it certainly can.

Rip

So giddy I may go 26"!

Rip,

I'm shooting the 458 WM in my Zastava (3.4" mag box) and trying to decide on monometal bullets to use for full house loads.

If I load to 3.35" COAL in 2.5" Brass that leaves me 0.85" of exposed bullet. How much bullet can I let intrude into the case without seriously limiting the velocity?

I'm using JBM Ballistics Bullet Length guide and the 450 grain monometal bullets are 1.34" to 1.51" long.

What is considered the standard bullet length for the original 500 grain jacketed bullet load to compare to?

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
41 F and raining right now.
Elvis sings it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YU2U3QAUGak

It was in the 70s F and drizzly yesterday and the cicadas were chirping.
Faked out by a false spring.
Looks like sun and 50s F on Sunday coming up,
otherwise rain for next two weeks if the weather predictions are correct.
Unlikely!
Better be ready to shoot some of these Sunday:



Summer is coming!


Rip ...

Since you appear to be from Kentucky and parts East,
I won't presume that it would resonate with you if that bullet was called:
Bitchin' ([west?]-US slang, 1961-1962).

It is truly
Groovey (pan-Anglo slang, 1964-1965), even if using 'drive-bands' rather than 'grooves'.

Pretty Far-out (1967), since it can reach out and touch something at distance.

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:
Rip,

I'm shooting the 458 WM in my Zastava (3.4" mag box) and trying to decide on monometal bullets to use for full house loads.

Good on you, Fjold.

If I load to 3.35" COAL in 2.5" Brass that leaves me 0.85" of exposed bullet. How much bullet can I let intrude into the case without seriously limiting the velocity?

A caliber of bullet base length seated inside the case, about 0.450" to certainly less than 0.500",
is about the norm for the old original 500-grain RNSP loads,
with about 0.80" of bullet nose/ogive protruding, for 3.300" COL with 2.500" (maximum length) brass.
Nowadays, with AA-2230 that allows you to load well past 2150 fps in a 24" barrel with 500-grainer.

I'm using JBM Ballistics Bullet Length guide and the 450 grain monometal bullets are 1.34" to 1.51" long.

What is considered the standard bullet length for the original 500 grain jacketed bullet load to compare to?

The old cup&core Hornady RNSP is about 1.340" long, and has a cannelure that allows no more than about 0.470" seating depth for crimping.
So that leaves 0.87" of nose projection, and COL minimum of 2.490" + 0.870" = 3.360".
You are forced to use 0.020" of LongCOL, or seat it deeper than the cannelure if you want to make SAAMI max of 3.340".
Of course that is trivial and 3.360" COL works fine in any 3.4"-boxed rifle I have ever used.

The 500-grain FMJ shown below is shorter in the nose section (blunter shape) with 0.818" of nose projection,
3.318" COL with 2.495" brass length.
Behold, Fjold:



Above is with 2.495" brass length.
The 400-grain HV works most perfectyly at COLs of
3.350"
3.450"
and even 3.550" could be used, but yet to be tested by me.
It could even be loaded down to 3.250" COL.
There are 5 major-diameter driving bands.
Those lengths are with crimping under a driving band, to prevent bullet setback by battering in the magazine box,
whether Gerard likes that or not!
3.250" shortest to 3.550" longest COL.

I am starting off with my rifle using 3.450" load.
See data to follow after I reply to 416Tanzan.

Rip ...

RIP:
looks like three nice trial loads
3.35 bitchin'
3.45 groovey
3.55 far-out

416Tanzan,

This is very good:

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
RIP:
looks like three nice trial loads
3.35 bitchin'
3.45 groovey
3.55 far-out

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
Since you appear to be from Kentucky and parts East,

Whoah up there pahdnuh. I spent 5 years in Alaska as an adult, so picked up some northwestern lingo.
Also about a year in Texas, thanks to Uncle Sam also, southwestern flavor there.
Born in Kentucky, most of my first three years of life were spent in Puerto, but I didn't learn one word of Spanish on the Air Force Base.
Then my next 5 years of life were spent in Mississippi, but I was already reading and writing when I got there,
thanks to Mom!
I am fluent in the southern dialect.

I won't presume that it would resonate with you if that bullet was called:
Bitchin' ([west?]-US slang, 1961-1962).

It is truly
Groovey (pan-Anglo slang, 1964-1965), even if using 'drive-bands' rather than 'grooves'.

Pretty Far-out (1967), since it can reach out and touch something at distance.

I understand all adjectives above. Yep, the subject bullet is bitchin', groovey, and pretty far-out!

And I am not hornswoggling you about that.
("Hornswoggle" is an 1800s Kentucky contribution to the "American" language.)

This bullet is slick. Slicker than greased owl poop.
You will be crappin' in high cotton if you get some.




Rip ...

Warmed up to 53 degrees F on 2-18-2018, no wind, and all the yahoos came out to shoot.
Every shooting position was taken in the concrete-benched and tin-roofed areas.
Even the 600-yard prone plywood position and the one uncovered, plywood bench next to it were taken when I got there.
So I set up on a portable benchrest and just shot my bullets over a ProChrono at 5 yards and skipped them into the 300-yard berm.
No paper targets, but a good start on load development with the 400-grain HVs, only 18 bullets fired.
Got what I wanted.
Then I got what I wanted from the .475 Linebaugh LongCOL Ruger No.1 shown below after 27 shots,
still in one rugged piece.
So is the WinCzechster.
Both rifles are getting better with each outing. That means more fun than last time they went shootin'.



Lemme go fetch the .458 Win.Mag. load data and I will add it here.
It is bitchin'.

Rip ...

24-7/8" barrel length, .458 Winchester Magnum Pre-'64 M70 with CZ barrel.
53 degrees F on 2-18-2018.
Hornady brass, 2.495" length, this is second firing.
Primer: F-215
Powder: AA-2230
Bullet: 400-grain GSC HV, BC 0.372, bullet length 1.442"
COL: 3.450", the groovey LongerCOL

(Correction of 5-yard chronographh reading to MV at current atmospheric conditions: Add 12 fps for the 2337 fps to 2502 fps range of MV.
Verified by RCBS.LOAD Exterior Ballistics Calculator for G1 BC of 0.372.)

Three-shot average Muzzle Velocity (MV) and Standard Deviation (Sd), fractions rounded to nearest 1 fps unit:

AA-2230
80.0 grains >>> 2433 fps MV, Sd = 3 fps (close to filled case)
81.0 grains >>> 2467 fps MV, Sd = 5 fps (about 100% fill)
82.0 grains >>> 2502 fps MV, Sd = 3 fps (mildly compressed, no drop tube nor vibratory settling used)

AA-2200
76.0 grains >>> 2337 fps MV, Sd = 17 fps
77.0 grains >>> 2372 fps MV, Sd = 8 fps
78.0 grains >>> 2404 fps MV, Sd = 9 fps

Looks like AA-2230 is the only powder needed for 400 to 500-grain bullets in the .458 Win. Mag.
For 3.350" COL with this 400-grain HV bullet, I would just start with 76.0 grains of AA-2230, in my rifle.
That might be surprisingly fast.
For a 3.550" COL, I would start over with 82.0 grains of AA-2230 and work up, for the 400-grain HV.
I used 83.0 grains of AA-2230 with the 500-grain TSX at LongestCOL for that bullet and it gave 2344 fps in my rifle.
That was pretty far-out.

Rip ...

Thank you for sharing the information on your load development work.

Thanks Rip,

I bought some AA2230 because of the previous information on this thread. I'll order some of the GS C 400 grain HV bullets and give them a try at 3.30 first.

Thanks again for the information.

quote:

Originally posted by ldmay375:
Thank you for sharing the information on your load development work.

My pleasure. I gots to know this stuff. Figured sumbuddy else could use it too.
HA! Page 35.

Rip ...

You may re-kindle my interest in the 458 Win. I actually just dug the Mark X / Alaskan / Whitworth out of the safe and looked at it. And the AHR'd synthetic 458 Lott. The GS Custom 400 grainers do have my attention.

The 400 grain bullet intentions were really the only reason that I purchased either. Then Barnes dropped theirs and my interests diverted to 416's and 350's. Lost the 458 motivation to purchase the GS Customs or NorthForks.

I have some factory loaded "Silver" Federal Trophy Bonded Bear Claws, but somewhat anemic at an advertised 2250fps. If I recall correctly the older version were at least advertised at 2300 or more fps. Though never chronographed them. I suppose these would work well enough for vampires. The old version certainly knocked the hell out of rocks.

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:
Thanks Rip,

I bought some AA2230 because of the previous information on this thread. I'll order some of the GS C 400 grain HV bullets and give them a try at 3.30 first.

Thanks again for the information.

Great to hear, Frank.
You will not be sorry.
I will be ordering some more too.

I got a feeling this is the bullet to 200-yard-zero my rifle for and let the others fall where they may.

Or use the Nikon SlugHunter zeroed at 100 yards and use the BDC reticle for .372 BC at 2500 fps, out to 550 yards for the bottom post at 9X,
993 yards for the bottom post at 3X, for harassing fire.
I gotta try the Nikon SlugHunter zeroed at 200 yards, might be able to harass a mile away.

I will next try 3.350", 3.450", and 3.550" to see if accuracy improves as COL increases, and AA-2230 charge increases also.
2500 fps is fast enough.
It may be possible to do 2500 fps with all three of those COLs.
Accuracy may be the deciding factor.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by ldmay375:
You may re-kindle my interest in the 458 Win. I actually just dug the Mark X / Alaskan / Whitworth out of the safe and looked at it. And the AHR'd synthetic 458 Lott. The GS Custom 400 grainers do have my attention.

The 400 grain bullet intentions were really the only reason that I purchased either. Then Barnes dropped theirs and my interests diverted to 416's and 350's. Lost the 458 motivation to purchase the GS Customs or NorthForks.

I have some factory loaded "Silver" Federal Trophy Bonded Bear Claws, but somewhat anemic at an advertised 2250fps. If I recall correctly the older version were at least advertised at 2300 or more fps. Though never chronographed them. I suppose these would work well enough for vampires. The old version certainly knocked the hell out of rocks.

ldmay375,
That is pretty much what happened to me too.
Maybe GSC-USA will have some of these sitting on the shelf next time, so we do not have to wait so long to get a batch made.

Rip ...

Recoil for two verified loads in a 10.0-pound .458 Win.Mag. rifle:

500-grain Barnes TSX, 78.0 grains AA-2230, 2250 fps, COL 3.785"
Free Recoil:
Vel. = 21.3 fps
KE = 70.6 ft-lbs
Impulse = 6.6 lb-sec

400-grain GSC HV, 82.0 grains AA-2230, 2502 fps, COL 3.450"
Free Recoil:
Vel. = 19.8 fps
KE = 60.9 ft-lbs
Impulse = 6.2 lb-sec

Recall that the SAAMI (3.340" maximum COL) 500-grainer at 2150 fps had impulse of 6.3 lb-sec.

This 400-gr GSC HV at 2502 fps has slightly less recoil than the old standard 500-grain load in the .458 Win.Mag.

At 2300 fps, the old 400-grain X-Bullet had a lot less recoil and was more effective than any 500-grain softpoint on test media and big brown bears.
That is with SAAMI .458 Win.Mag. loads, according to Finn Aagaard and Phil Shoemaker.
At 2500 fps the GSC HV 400-grainer might well be the ultimate game getter.

Rip ...

now compare the velocity SD and penetration then energy to the grand old 416 Rigby the religious left worships and you get the rest of the '' it is the most fantastic rifle ever ''' story on the merits of the 458 win mag.

What about a little history on who actually designed the almighty .458 Win Mag?

I know the "official" report, but always wondered about the name of the man who made it a reality.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustavo:
What about a little history on who actually designed the almighty .458 Win Mag?

I know the "official" report, but always wondered about the name of the man who made it a reality.

So, Gustavo, you mean aside from James Watts signing a release for Winchester to do what they wanted with the basic CONcept?
Yes, .450 Watts versus .450 Watts Short, whether 2.85", 2.5" or 2", and with what sort of throat to be marketed as the .458 Winchester Magnum?

I submit that it must have been a committee that tweaked the final design, inspired by God Himself, just like with the wildebeest.
God Alone could have worked that miracle.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

So, Gustavo, you mean aside from James Watts signing a release for Winchester to do what they wanted with the basic CONcept?
Yes, .450 Watts versus .450 Watts Short, whether 2.85", 2.5" or 2", and with what sort of throat to be marketed as the .458 Winchester Magnum?

I submit that it must have been a committee that tweaked the final design, inspired by God Himself, just like with the wildebeest.
God Alone could have worked that miracle.

Rip ...

And... PO Ackley according to this source

The African Hunter Magazine Volume 18 # 3 - Page 51
Feature Africa’s Homegrown .458s By I J Larivers

The concept of a rifle calibre designed for a professional hunter as opposed to a client is not a new one; the applications are markedly different. It’s the PH’s job to put the client in the right place at the right time to take the desired trophy and if all goes well that’s all there is to it - the client takes the shot, the animal goes down, and we all live happily ever after. If we’re talking a dangerous game animal and things go pear-shaped, it’s now the PH’s responsibility to arrange the happily-ever-after part and it might have to be done decisively and in one hell of a hurry.

So, shooting skill aside for the moment, the client’s rifle has to be able to deliver an accurate shot with a calibre and bullet combination that will perform adequately on the quarry at hand. If he is a true sportsman, he will have acquired the skill to use it effectively - as Col Jeff Cooper said, “A man is not armed because he carries a weapon, but only if he has the skill to use it.” If, for whatever reason, the client fails to make a killing shot and the animal at hand decides to come and discuss the matter face to face, it’s now up to the PH to be the moderator.

The client may have taken a shot at a buffalo with a scope-sighted .375 H&H, which is adequate under ideal circumstances, but certainly no charge-stopper should things go wrong. When I think of a charge-stopper, the .577 Tyrannosaur is probably the first cartridge that comes to mind, and certainly you have to be in the '4s' - .404 and above - to be on the money.

Back in 1956, the .458 Winchester Magnum seemed at first to be the last word in dangerous game calibres - and we all know that there’s no such thing as the last word unless it happens to be a famous last word which is what we’re trying to avoid here. The .458 Win Mag offered African heavy rifle ballistics in a compact package.

It was descended from the .450 Watts Magnum which was the result of a collaboration between James Watts and P O Ackley, and was basically a slightly tapered .375 H&H fireformed to accept a .458 bullet with an overall length of 2.85". Cut it off by 0.35" and you have the .450 Watts short magnum, which became the .458 Win Mag. (The .450 Watts Magnum’s larger case capacity, though, gave it predictably superior ballistics with a 500 grain bullet at velocities in the 2500fps range.)

A well-placed shot would bring down any big game species, and it was a good PH’s rifle too, for if and when things went wrong. The .458 Win Mag presents well-documented challenges to the reloader, and because loadings were usually in the upper 1900fps range it has acquired a bad reputation in a lot of circles - not so much as a client’s rifle with good shot placement and the right bullet, but as a PH’s charge-stopper . I personally am still a big fan of the calibre and so are a lot of hunters and PHs who appreciate and work around these vagaries. Interesting performance has been noted, for example, at the lower velocities with Woodleigh’s new hydrostatically-stabilised monometal bullets.

It is human nature to “improve” things, and it wasn’t long before this was applied to the .458 Win Mag. Oddly enough by African Hunter Vol. 18 No. 3 making it longer, which is where the whole thing had started. Again, based on a blown-out .375 H&H, the .458 Lott first saw the light of day in 1971. It is a full-length magnum cartridge, longer by 0.30" than the .458 Win Mag, and with superior performance. A2 championed the newcomer from the start, and in 2002 it received SAAMI standardization, removing once and for all any notion of it being a wildcat. I know a lot of PHs who have re-chambered their .458s to .458 Lott, and I don’t know one who has found any real shortcomings. It has been rated on a par with the .470 Nitro and some of the .500s. It sends a 500gr bullet out at 2300fps which is adequate all around. The .450 Watts and the .458 Lott, then, are basically the same thing with a mere 0.05" difference between them.

and this one, crediting Jim alone:

Two sold out titles

Many of you have asked about other books I've written and are no longer available. The book on James Watts, inventor of the .450 Watts cartridge, was my first project in the mid-1990s. Jim was a great man who came to Alaska in 1936 to Valdez and walked the 400 miles to Fairbanks. He was in the AK earthquake of 1964--right on the coast picking up his wife from work when the quake hit and the tidal wave came in. He went on an 8-month safari in Zimbabwe, flew to the northern Yukon and walked out for a summer vacation, and was shot by his superintendent when he was a school teacher. Jack Lott gets the credit for his .458 Lott, but Watts did it 22 years prior.

All Lott did was take the Watts case and shave .005 off of it to get his name on a big game cartridge.

And, being the well known writer he was, got the credit. Jim also developed the .450 Watts Short that was renamed the .458 Winchester magnum (yes, I saw the correspondence), the .450 Alaskan from the .348 WCF case, and more. I am proud he was my friend. I had 1200 copies printed and sold the last one a week ago at a local gun show.

The second article you excerpted is no doubt by our very own Cal Pappas, member here. He wrote THE BOOK on James Watts,
JAMES ".450" WATTS: RECOLLECTIONS OF MY LIFE. That is all good.

The first article by I.J. Larivers contains some tripe.
High school teacher James Watts and gunsmith Harvey B. Anderson of Yakima, Washington collaborated on the .450 Watts Magnum.
Not P.O. Ackley.
Sometime in the 1947-1949 period Watts had actually visited with P.O. Ackley about making barrels for his idea of the .450 Watts.
Just prior to that he had visited with Jack O'Connor.
Maybe we should say that James Watts collaborated with P.O. Ackley in creation of the .450 Ackley,
after doing the .450 Watts with Anderson.
That first .450 Watts Magnum rifle was born in 1949.
James Watts and Harvey Anderson also got Fred Barnes to make bullets for them.
Therefore, they may have collaborated with Fred Barnes in that way to inspire the .450 Barnes Supreme of the 1950s, very much like the .450 Ackley.

Circa 1946, after the end of WWII, Watts claimed to have written to Winchester, about getting them to blow out the .375 H&H Magnum to .450, and was rebuffed.
Watts fidgeted with the idea of doing it himself after returning to Yakima in 1947.
First Rifle: 1949.
Copyright: 1950.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
The second article you excerpted is no doubt by our very own Cal Pappas, member here. He wrote THE BOOK on James Watts,
JAMES ".450" WATTS: RECOLLECTIONS OF MY LIFE. That is all good.

The first article by I.J. Larivers contains some tripe.
High school teacher James Watts and gunsmith Harvey B. Anderson of Yakima, Washington collaborated on the .450 Watts Magnum.
Not P.O. Ackley.
Sometime in the 1947-1949 period Watts had actually visited with P.O. Ackley about making barrels for his idea of the .450 Watts.
Just prior to that he had visited with Jack O'Connor.
Maybe we should say that James Watts collaborated with P.O. Ackley in creation of the .450 Ackley,
after doing the .450 Watts with Anderson.
That first .450 Watts Magnum rifle was born in 1949.
James Watts and Harvey Anderson also got Fred Barnes to make bullets for them.
Therefore, they may have collaborated with Fred Barnes in that way to inspire the .450 Barnes Supreme of the 1950s, very much like the .450 Ackley.

Circa 1946, after the end of WWII, Watts claimed to have written to Winchester, about getting them to blow out the .375 H&H Magnum to .450, and was rebuffed.
Watts fidgeted with the idea of doing it himself after returning to Yakima in 1947.
First Rifle: 1949.
Copyright: 1950.

Rip ...

WOW! have to take a bow before you!

I have started using a 26"-long drop tube made from an aluminum arrow shaft with plastic funnel/nozzle fixtures attached to ends.
I have crammed 80 grains of AA-2230 into a 3.370" COL with the 400-grain HV bullet.

80.0 grains of AA-2230 is the maximum charge in the Western Powders Manual for the 400-grain Barnes Original SSSP at 3.140" COL.
It is a compressed load, they say with the "C" beside it in their table.
24"-barrel Velocity is 2457 fps and pressure is 53,690 PSI.
That bullet is only 1.160" long, and in 2.490" brass, the 3.140" COL requires 0.510" seating depth.

My brass is 2.495" long.
My bullet is 1.442" long.

I am going to try three loads with the 400-grain GSC HV, which has a start pressure of only about 1100 PSI,
versus the 400-grain B.O. start pressure (for standard jacketed bullet) estimated at 3625 PSI:

"Bitchin' Long COL": 3.370" COL with 80.0 grains AA-2230. That works through a Ruger Hawkeye or standard M98 or M70 3.4" box length.

"Groovey Longer COL": 3.450" Col is still good with 82.0 grains of AA-2230 fps for 2502 fps in my WinCzechster rifle, 24-7/8" barrel, single loaded.
But 3.470" COL might be groovier.

"Pretty Far Out COL": 3.570" COL with 84.0 grains of AA-2230. This can be done but may be impractical because so little of the bullet is seated into the case.
About a caliber length is seated, but that is mostly boat tail and only one full diameter band is seated.

I am probably going to end up concentrating on the "Groovey Longer COL" loadings (3.450" to about 3.475") pending velocity and accuracy findings.

Rip ...

I am whipped by influenza. I did jury duty last week and came home with the flu.
If there had not been flash flood warnings yesterday I probably would have tried the range today,
coughing and blowing mustard out of my sinuses between shots.
But I know the mud is deep there now, and I hate that about as much as wind.
So, even though it is a cloudy, balmy 50 F, and no-wind day, I am whimping out.
Will load some more ammo for a better day, when I don't fatigue an influenza-stricken body by carrying a load of mud on each boot.
Another trial load:

400-grain HV with 82.0 grains of AA-2230 in a new, unfired Hornady case, FL-sized, with GM215M primer (same as F215).
The drop tube will be used and the bullet seated only as deep as needed to assure it is difficult to seat any deeper,
100% full to lightly compressed, 3.500" COL maximum, 3.450" COL minimum.
Crimped well, crimped between the third and fourth bands, locked in place, with sufficent neck tension and good concentricity.
I have a Lee Factory Crimo Die for this one. Love that thing.

The 3.370" HV load with 72.0 to 80.0 grains of AA-2230 might do this too
(that is the powder charge range recommended by Western Powders using the 400-grain Barnes Original SSSP at 3.140" COL).
But an almost 3.500" COL will be easier to get more powder into it, and might be more accurate,
and perfect for an M70 3.6"-long box magazine.
Just a wee bit too long for 3.4" box magazine feeding,
but excellent for single-loading and ejecting unfired rounds from the standard .458 Win. Mag. rifle: 400 grains at 2500 fps.
Zero the sights on any .458 Win. Mag. for that,
and let all other bullets land where they may.

450-grain brass or copper monometal solids filling a 3.4" box would be a great followup insurance for a single 400-grain HV in the chamber.
You can do that with any .458 Win. Mag. magazine repeater.
After a single HV, a solid will rarely be required, except as the insurance shot after the game is dead.
Of course, even the antique 500-grain FMJ Round Nose "solid" SAAMI loads would work for close-range insurance payments also.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
I am whipped by influenza.

Sorry to hear this! Me and mine just had a bout of RSV with the mustard colored snot. Worst we've had in years.

jsmith,
Thanks for the empathy.
I feel like I had RSV and influenza simultaneously (snot, snot).
I won't be kissing any babies anytime soon.
Good thing I am just the opposite of a politician.

3.495" is my new "groovey" LongCOL with the 400-grain GSC HV.
2.495" brass trim-to length.
Hey, that is exactly one inch of bullet nose sticking out of the case. The numerology must be right.

Rip ...

The 26"-long drop tube was used to compact the powder
charge before the boat tail of the bullet was pressed down upon it.
This is a minimal-or-no-compression load but, has to be called a +100% load since the drop tube was used, I reckon.
I can easily add another grain of powder if increasing the COL from 3.450" to 3.495" drops the velocity from previous 2502 fps MV.
It will be interesting to observe what happens with that tiny little change of the load:
Increased COL by 45 thou.

This is reply #19 to page 35 of this thread.
The 400 Whelen thread is eatin' our dust.

Rip ...

RIP, I cannot avoid to notice how much bulge is at the case mouth with that bullet.

Get a .404 Jeffrey ...

400gn .423 dia bullet ... It kills the Big Stuff dead right there without the donkey-kick recoil of the other .400-class cartridges that only seem to loosen teeth.

Once you've bagged a Big One with a .404J, ... well, you can thank me and 'Pondoro' later.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustavo:
RIP, I cannot avoid to notice how much bulge is at the case mouth with that bullet.

The Redding FL-sizer die that I use reduces the final 1/3-inch of the case by quite a bit,
like a ghost shoulder in the FL-sized/pre-loading brass.
Then a belling die is used to open the case mouth enough for trouble-free seating of the .459"-diameter driving bands.
What you are seeing with the 3.495" load is a slight wasp-waist left in the case because the boattail of the HV does not re-expand that segment
like a caliber's length of full-diameter bullet would upon seating.

That wasp-waisted load is beautiful to me. It is going to sting like a KILLER BEE.
Its bullet will not seat deeper nor pull loose in use.
Optimized for maximum use of the .458 Win. Mag. chamber.
Locked & loaded, ready for anything.
I also have RCBS and Lee die sets for the .458 Win. Mag. as well as RCBS .458 Lott dies.
I will see how those work ... later ...
The cosmetic wasp-waist can be eliminated if desired, I like it.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:
Get a .404 Jeffrey ...

400gn .423 dia bullet ... It kills the Big Stuff dead right there without the donkey-kick recoil of the other .400-class cartridges that only seem to loosen teeth.

Once you've bagged a Big One with a .404J, ... well, you can thank me and 'Pondoro' later.

Been there and done that and got the T-shirt and ...
But if you do not like this, well, never mind ...

rip ...

Most things are relative. If you are an excellent, cool shot such a Pondoro, a light rifle in .450/.400
is plenty for most purposes but ...

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:
Most things are relative. If you are an excellent, cool shot such a Pondoro, a light rifle in .450/.400
is plenty for most purposes but ...

Brothers of the Four Five Eight, we must have picked the winner.
We are catching it from both sides.
First, the .458 Win. Mag. is inadequate for chest-beating braggadocio.
Now, it is too powerful for a gentleman's purposes, might make him sweat or bruise him, whether he just carried it or actually shot it!

Two packs of varmints have treed a hunter who has the ultimate varmint rifle slung, and is looking down at them, counting his bullets,
waiting for them to tire of their nonsense!

Rip ...