Baster,
no clue what bothers you, or why you don't understand that past masters have done exactly this style of testing. PO Ackley, rest his soul, died 19 years before the ruger was introduced. Perhaps you could have a little respect for the dead?

As for fashion tips from an annoymous internet poster? thanks, you can keep the tinfoil top hat.

quote:

pointing out the asinine nature of a challenge which would be better settled with a tape measure than a chronograph hardly qualifies as interest.

You are wasting your breath, or in this case finger strokes. Jeffe lives for this type of blather. 375 performance from a 16 in bbl, yea that one has me on the edge of my seat.

How many 375/416Ruger threads do we have concurrently pimping the redundant duo. Me think they complain too much!

quote:

The two ctg are virtual identical. Hornady factory loads according to their website:

375H&H 300gr Superformance - 2354 fps
375Ruger 300Gr Same Super - 2344 fps

Same=Same=Same Why not test using Hornady equal factory loads?

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
Jeffe lives for this type of blather.

You are kind of correct -- I do enjoy learning and sharing this type of information. So did one of my heros, PO Ackley .. here's what wiki has to say on the matter

quote:

Ackley was not just a wildcatter, he was a researcher as well, often testing firearms to destruction in the search for information.

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
375 performance from a 16 in bbl, yea that one has me on the edge of my seat.

I am interested in KNOWING from 26 to 16 inches .. it might be useful info

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
How many 375/416Ruger threads do we have concurrently pimping the redundant duo. Me think they complain too much!

"they" .. as in people that only offer negativity for anything ruger .. they, sir, aint me.

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:

quote:

The two ctg are virtual identical

we disagree. I have yet to see a 3.35 300gr 375HH load that will make 2660

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:.

Hornady factory loads according to their website:

do you mean the chart that you can't read? and is the ONE 375hh load, that isn't available in africa and isn't 2500 fps muzzle? you know, well, its actually loaded to 375 weatherby with "pixie dust" unavailable powder the rest of humanity?

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
375H&H 300gr Superformance - 2354 fps
375Ruger 300Gr Same Super - 2344 fps

Yep -- you STILL can't read that chart .. that is the 100 yard balistics ..

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
Same=Same=Same Why not test using Hornady equal factory loads?

really? this isn't obvious, that I am trying to compare the standard 375 hh to the standard 375 ruger? an average of all federal and remington 375hh 300gr loads is almost exactly 2500 (2490)
adding the 2 hornady factory 375HH loads, takes us to a "global" average of 2496.77


Some of the detractors statements about the 375 ruger
1: it can't make book velocity with factory ammo
lots of folks reporting book or right at it
2: it can't be reloaded to book
lots of published works beg to differ
3: the 375 ruger isn't available in africa
perhaps - neither was the 375hh in 1925, but this is a learning exercise
4: there's no way it can make book at 20" barrel
we'll see
5: its no faster than the 375 HH when comparing a 24" hh to a 20" ruger
yet HH fans claim you don't need the speed
6: ruger factory balistics can't be matched by the reloader as they don't have access to "pixie dust" powder that hornady uses
this is a mismonomer, the heavy mag loads did use custom powders that you couldn't get back in the case.. i tore a bunch of it down to see. The SP loads are not the same powders
7: there's no animal out there that can be killed by the whizbang ruger that can't be killed by the OLD STANDARD 375 HH AT 2500FPS
this is a threshold/condition of testing then,...accepted

I am offering and will address all of the above, at a range of barrel lengths, except using number 7 as a baseline for ammo. You see, part of the complaints of the ruger is that you don't "need" the "extra" velocity. The hornady super performance loads aren't available in africa like the old standard by ammo is, and therefore the one freak load has to be excluded as it meets the same complaint, 3, above.. if the ruger aint there, the super performance aint ever. Its a goose/gander thing.

FB, if you think its worthwhile to use that one load, then you can do your own tests that way... it will validate at least some of my results. When will you be buying 2 barrels, reamers, having them barreled, 200 rounds of factory ammo (100 each), a chronograph, chopsaw, crowning tool, and range rentals? perhaps we can coordinate our testing to conclude about the same time? I expect i should have the time do do the research before midjuly ... if it comes together, perhaps midjune, according to my schedule. When will you have your ends together?

Oh, I understand that this can be a large undertaking. If you like, you can buy 5 boxes of the super performance 375 hh ammo, have it sent to me, and we can have a 3 way test. When will you be shipping that ammo?

Jeff, You took me off you ignore list

I only make one suggestion and then I be quiet. And I grant you this is your call and your barrels. That would be to include the latest Hornady super performance ammo for both rounds.

No argue, no debate - just a suggestion - another data point. If you go to all this effort.

FB,
I will use the 375 HH super performance ammo if you provide it. I am providing everything else. i will need 5 boxes .. might could squeak by with 4 boxes, but I would need you to provide it, then I'll use it. I'll return whatever is unused. it would be a 3 way race then .. 2500fps 300 gr 375 hh load, 2660fps 300 gr ruger, and the SP 375HH "not available in africa" load

Unlike the villain on Dirty Harry, I don't gotta know that bad.

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
Unlike the villain on Dirty Harry, I don't gotta know that bad.

I have no problem getting 2650--2660fps with 300gr bullets in my 20" Alaskan with H4350.

I was getting 2725fps with 300GR NAB bullets and RL-17 the other day, with no pressure signs. I probably could have gone even higher, but with no published data I didn't want to risk anything with a brand new powder I know very little about.

Although I actually dont' see any real need to go any faster than about 2600-2650fps with a 300gr or 2750 with a 270gr bullet, as I am not going to shoot any game animal past about 400 yards with this rifle.



H4350 seems more accurate than RL 17 in my rifle at 300 yards (furthest I've checked a group)

Top 2 pics are 300 yard groups, 300gr NAB, H4350




These 2 are at same target, same bullet, but RL17



But RL17 did turn up this exceptional 3 shots through one hole group at 100 yards.I shot 2 through the same hole, then pulled the third, so I popped another one into the same hole.I am pretty sure I was responsible for the flyer

Agree Gatehouse... In my 20" Alaskan I get 2650 fps with 300 grainers - no problem using Norma 203B (quite similar to Rel 15). I did break the 2700 fps barrier as well, but not as good accuracy. With 265 grs GS Custom HV bullets I got 875 m/s yesterday - same as 2870 fps and good groups.. Nice load. I will have to try Rel 17 asap.

If I want those velocities I can stuff a Wby reamer in my HH and call it a day.

quote:

Originally posted by RyanB:
If I want those velocities I can stuff a Wby reamer in my HH

EXACTLY

yep,great point .. the ruger book speed is the same as the 375 weatherby....

Maybe you should be comparing the Ruger to the Wtby, that would be a closer comparison than the H&H!

On the last range trip with my 375 Ruger (24" 3 groove Pac Nor) I got these velocities:

AB 260 0.473 RL17 84.5 3.350 2938
AB 260 0.473 RL17 85.0 3.350 2941
AB 260 0.473 RL17 85.5 3.350 2956
AB 260 0.473 RL17 86.0 3.350 2978


and before I get flamed, I worked all the way up from 74 gr RL17 in .5 gr increments. This is what the primers looked like on the 86 gr load



Bet I could keep going.

quote:

Maybe you should be comparing the Ruger to the Wtby, that would be a closer comparison than the H&H! stir

You guys serious? The 375H&H superperformance is loaded to the SAME velocity that Hornady loads the 375Ruger. Same compnay, same powders, SAME performance. Same bbl length = same performance.

Same = same. Period. Or is the real purpose of this thread just to irritate rational folks?

Woods,
You want to be present for the barrel choppin?

FB,
seriously? You think this is to irritate anyone? I find this to be a somewhat controversial way to align the classic of the HH to the newbie of the ruger ... not to compare HH loads that try to be something else.

or would you compare 45/70 BP to Garrett hammerheads, and shoot both in a trapdoor?

do you think that load is available in africa, or is nostalgic? both of which are merits of the 375HH ... just in case you keep missing it, the 375 hh CIP load is 300gr at 2500fps.. and the average of ALL about 16 published loads I could find, from various makers, INCLUDING the hornady SP load, was 2496.67. If you are irritated, then pony up the couple boxes of SP ammo and we'll see the difference.

it is NOT same-same .. it is exceptional load vs normal.

Hey jeffe

If time allows. Let me know when. Unfortunately I am not retired and have to work my a$$ off to keep everything afloat (sales quotas, 5 acres mowed, old dogs to the vet, etc. etc. etc.) but it is possible it could work out.

You gonna do it in Porter or at Bayou Rifles?

More than likely somewhere north of porter!

quote:

not to compare HH loads that try to be something else.

In other words with H&H loaded down to 100 year old levels v. Ruger with modern loads. I though someone suggested the idea was to study the efficiency of the case design, not advances in powder technology?

This experiment is a significant amount of time and expense. Assuming 16,18,20,22,24,26 is 6 lengths of interest with just 3 shots would be one box of ammo. Seems worth while, in light of the total effort expended.

That's your concept, i guess.
Mine is to compare the 3755 HH STANDARD against the 375 ruger STANDARD ... I am not interested in testing a single exceptional load of either .. as reloaders have far exceeded the ruger FACTORY ballistics already .. I am not interested in +p loads for the HH, as that is NOT the standard ..

Is it really this difficult to understand that the AVERAGE of all published HH FACTORY loads is right at 2500, including the hornady SP?

Since you aren't going to buy the SP ammo for the HH to be tested, and you did state

quote:

Unlike the villain on Dirty Harry, I don't gotta know that bad.

then your OBVIOUS intent is to stir the pot without contribution.

Since it is MY $$, I'll test what I want, and testing the STANDARD against the STANDARD is what I wish to test.

Since it has been repeated, puketeen million times, that the ruger load is too new to be in africa, which is a detractor of the ruger, then how can one FAIRLY include the one "freak" load that is also too new (sp in a 2009 product) that mets the IDENTICAL specification?


TANSTAAFL, FB .. put up or shut up about the ammo.

Sorry, I edit my post while you were posting. So; not even one box of superformance H&H (no I am not paying)?

If you want it done, send 5 boxes of factory hornady SP 375HH ammo. Its put up or shutup time, and I am telling you that *I* am comparing 375 HH loads, not the SP load, on my own dime. Commit to 5 boxes, and NO, 1 box is worthless, as it is just an abberation, rather than research, or drop it.

If YOU aren't willing to pay, then Why in the heck are you blathering about it?

TANSTAAFL .. put up or shut up

Y'all let me know what ya find out. I'm still going to keep my 300 gr 375 H&H loads at 2400 fps!

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:

This experiment is a significant amount of time and expense. Assuming 16,18,20,22,24,26 is 6 lengths of interest with just 3 shots would be one box of ammo. Seems worth while, in light of the total effort expended.

guessing 10 shots to sight in and make certain scope is correct ..

10 shots for base line

at least 3 shots per barrel cut back and resight, assume 5 to be outside

3 shots over the chrono -- and what happens if the chrono dosn't read?

I aint doing this 1/2 cocked .. all in or don't bother

Buy 5 boxes, and I'll return what's left, as well as the brass,,,, you can use that in YOUR 375 HH ... no, wait, do you even HAVE a 375 HH?

Seriously, do you HAVE one? if you don't, you are just wasting electrons

quote:

Originally posted by ACRecurve:
Thomas Jefferson: “To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.”

Heh, like me buying super whizbang-not-available-in-africa 375 HH loads ....

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by ACRecurve:
Thomas Jefferson: “To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.”

Uncanny appropriate quote. Same reason I am not paying for any part of this experiment.

I doubt any more whizzbank 375Ruger can be found on the dark continent than whizzbang 375H&H. Apparently whizz bang is not needed (or wanted)to make animals dead. Must be Americans buying all this whizz bang stuff.

Really?
FB, you are a slippery jack .. I offered the test, and didn't ask YOU for squat

YOU demand the 375hh SP load, contrrary to my stated objectives

and then try to play the "i didn't want to be part of it" card when asked to put up or shut up...

the more manly response would to have SHUT UP.

So, about your 375 HH ... what ya got? Since you are dodging the question, it rings painfully obvious ..

your three options are
1: state the truth
2: LIE
3: shutup.

However, if you mention the 375HH SP ammo again, and try to weasle ME into buying for YOUR interest, we will ask, again, "are you buying?"

I am done with you.

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
I am done with you.

AWESOME

Does that mean the experiment is off?

Nope .. full speed ahead .. just means FB aint going to foot the bill for the hornady SP ammo that he was insisting be tested.

I, however, AM putting my money where my mouth is

Should be a fun and interesting test. But I think you should recrown the bbl's each time!

it will have a crown .. ish .. but, i am only worried about hitting the chrono in terms of accurracy .. i didn't intend to shoot for groups between the lengths

The H&H was about technology for the time.
The 375 was to improve the 375 flanged and going from 300 @ 2400 in a lower pressure doulde to a higher pressure bolt action.
Bolt actions have pro's and cons over the double but between bolt actions the technology is going to standard actions and far superior bullets and powders. The 376 Steyr or 375-06 fits this bill more than any getting 300 @ 2450.
The only reason I see to use a 375 for DG is recoil. Since recoil is not a big issue for me I'll go larger. A 375 IMHO should be a large thin skin game round that CAN kill anything. The best use for a 375 HH today is to shoot large thin skin game or neck up to 404. OK off to lop off my own head to hang on the tower of H&H London for the sake of tradition.

I think this will be a neat experiment (heck I might even learn something) - but at the end of the day, I want my 375 to be sporting a barrel that is 24" long. And it will be eating a steady diet of handloads.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
The H&H was about technology for the time.
The 375 was to improve the 375 flanged and going from 300 @ 2400 in a lower pressure doulde to a higher pressure bolt action.
Bolt actions have pro's and cons over the double but between bolt actions the technology is going to standard actions and far superior bullets and powders. The 376 Steyr or 375-06 fits this bill more than any getting 300 @ 2450.
The only reason I see to use a 375 for DG is recoil. Since recoil is not a big issue for me I'll go larger. A 375 IMHO should be a large thin skin game round that CAN kill anything. The best use for a 375 HH today is to shoot large thin skin game or neck up to 404. OK off to lop off my own head to hang on the tower of H&H London for the sake of tradition.

Yeah, my idea for the 9.3x62 and 375 H&H is as the light rifle. Even though my 404J isn't too far ahead power wise, the slug is appreciably larger!

quote:

All it takes is your 375 HH cz, your pet load of 300gr at 2500s, a HACKSAW, and a willingness to compare, head to head, down to 16", right along with my 375 ruger...

After 3 pages, going off on multiple tangents, and just to refresh our memories...have you found someone willing to sacrifice his CZ barrel for your comparison? Or has the original JOUST premise been changed?

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
The best use for a 375 HH today is to shoot large thin skin game

This was the original design criteria for the .375H&H (Flanged and belted) for service around the (British)empire. It still stands today.

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:

quote:

All it takes is your 375 HH cz, your pet load of 300gr at 2500s, a HACKSAW, and a willingness to compare, head to head, down to 16", right along with my 375 ruger...

After 3 pages, going off on multiple tangents, and just to refresh our memories...have you found someone willing to sacrifice his CZ barrel for your comparison? Or has the original JOUST premise been changed?

interesting question. no, it appears that no reader of this thread (notice i didn't say HH owner) has the willingness to put his money where his mouth is and put up to compared.

Did the premise change? sure, dave,,, i ordered 2 AB barrels the other day and will do this on AB barrels .. i doubt anyone will complain about chopping an AB barrel or two .. .though i have found them to deliver good to great accuaracy ...

anyway... barrels on the way, and we have an HH reamer on hand .. couple actions "just laying around" and then we are closer to discovering the results of shortened barrels on the ruger and HH using their respective book ballistics.

however, dave, you have expressed you lack of interest, then interest, then lack.. etc ...

Code4
lots of mediums designed for this purpose... 9,3x62 comes to mind .... if one wishes to set the standard for heavy mediums taking game in a chronological order ...

Here ya go, take your 375 river and put it away. Go buy a few other 375 rugers and see if you get the same results. I had two different 375 rugers. The Alaskan and the African. Neither could get published velocities without a stcky bolt. That includes factory rounds. I couldnt get above 2450 fps with imr4350, h4350, rl5. I thought it might be my chrono. I sold the rugers after a year of frustration and got the h&h. Chrono'd a standard imr4350 load and wow, right on in velocity, 2550 fps with no pressure signs.
If you've got a fast,trouble free 375 ruger, I would keep it

quote:

The 458Win is getting rare now that we have the 458Lott. I love the lott, but it is definately hurting the 458Win.

fourbore;

I don't know about your neck of the woods, but here in Ontario, at the largest gun emporium, .458Win Mag ammo and components are outselling the .458Lott by 5 to 1, according to their data!!

Bob

www.bigbores.ca