hey.. send me that front sight!

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
After all of this bandwidth, or whatever they call it, can this question be answered.

Can the .375 Ruger be a cartridge for the world?
In other words, one gun for everything? Not should it, but could it?

The .375 Ruger is a great cartridge but it you want one gun for everything, go with a 45-70

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
After all of this bandwidth, or whatever they call it, can this question be answered.

Can the .375 Ruger be a cartridge for the world?
In other words, one gun for everything? Not should it, but could it?

The .375 Ruger is a great cartridge but it you want one gun for everything, go with a 45-70

In a handgun...

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
After all of this bandwidth, or whatever they call it, can this question be answered.

Can the .375 Ruger be a cartridge for the world?
In other words, one gun for everything? Not should it, but could it?

The .375 Ruger is a great cartridge but it you want one gun for everything, go with a 45-70

In a handgun...

Jim,
Are you and Dave trying to start another anti 45-70 circle jerk? ...

Dave is for sure, and I fell for it!

M

quote:

Originally posted by Low Wall:

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
After all of this bandwidth, or whatever they call it, can this question be answered.

Can the .375 Ruger be a cartridge for the world?
In other words, one gun for everything? Not should it, but could it?

The .375 Ruger is a great cartridge but it you want one gun for everything, go with a 45-70

In a handgun...

Jim,
Are you and Dave trying to start another anti 45-70 circle jerk? ...

Low Wall:

I am shocked that you would even think such a thing... LOLOLOLOL

I once went to a rib fest. They were giving out bumper stickers that said "We like vegetarians. They make us smile." That's kind of how I feel about these .375 Ruger vs. .375 H&H discussions. They make me smile! Two guns shooting bullets of the same weight and diameter at approximately the same velocity. The Ruger makes up into a more portable rifle but its' going to recoil a bit more. If you like it, pick it. If you like a classic cartridge that feeds like butter because of its' .065 of taper, pick the H&H. They are both good and there is not a dimes worth of difference between them. I will tell you how I answered this question. I sold my .375 H&H and am now the proud owner of two guns chambered in 9.3X62. Now, I have the best of all worlds, light portable rifles shooting a classic cartrige that doesn't knock you out from under your hat. Now, can we get back to the .45-70?

Jeff, quit screwing with these guys. It's just mean!

on hand
300 rounds of factory ammo - arrived today
1 375 ruger reamer and headspace guage
2 AB 26" barrels
2 enfield actions
1 375HH reamer and guage
1 mule stock
2 chronographs

I need to put them together and then drill n tap the enfields for scope mounts ..

most of the fixins are here, fellas..

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
DWright

Yes, you are rightfully corrupted now. Once you handle the rifles with 18-20 inches you will never go back the other way. Might as well sell, give away, or retire all your other rifles now. I had to retire all my 458 Wins, 458 Lotts, 416 Rems, 358 STAs, 358 Ultras, 9.3 Ultras, 338s, and anything with a barrel longer than 20. Beautiful Winchester M70s, all locked away in the safes, except when I use one to test with. None of which will ever see field use again.

As for the poll on velocity, hard to say for sure, but I will say that any animal you use this new 18 inch gun on will now know the difference and won't care.

M

OK, results are in, but here's the kicker, I was going for 18", but by the time I cut off the entire front band sight and ground the muzzel as flat as I could get it, it ended up being just 17".

I rechecked my velocities with the 300 gr. Hornady in my book and was off a little, as my recorded speed was 2,315 with the stock 20" tube.

Now I am fully aware that this is a mild load, and that with a full charge, that barrel lenghs make more of a differnce; but when we chrono'd the 17" tube, we got a difference of just 8 fps!
Yup, 2,304! That's just 2.66666 FPS per. inch of barrel.

Yup, 3" less and just 8 fps less! I must have done OK with my home made crown job as well, because out to 329 yards, it shot just as before, with no change in anything.

Hell Michael, ask Jim (Capoward)what he thought of it, as he shot it as well.

Bottom line is that I am extremely happy with the way it now handles, and actually balances better then before. It's also now a full inch shorter overall then the .416 B&M rifle, (because my length of pull is an inch shorter), and the velocity is vertually the same as it was with it's big ol long 20" tube.

I'd really like to thank Michael for introducing me to this concept. It's completely changed the way I view rifles.

In fact I have another idea. . .Hmmmmm . . , where did I put that damn hacksaw. . . . . ?

O, by the way, Jim & I took several pictures that will be forthcoming. Good day of shooting had by all.

P.S. We dug up a few of the bullets from the .375, .416, and the little .50. . . . .

We think the solid from the .416 may still be going. . . . . !

DWright

Well I have to say that was a little unexpected, that little or basically zero loss with 3 inches less! Unexpected, but maybe not a total surprise. When I started developing the 458 and 416 B&M I was 100% convinced I had to have 20 inches to be efficient. Of course both at 20 far exceeded expectations by a long shot. The 50 B&M so handy at 18 and just right, I had to try a 458 B&M. So, I was prepared for a loss, what I found is I lost basically nothing, around 15 fps with 2 inches, some not even that much. So I had to try a 18 inch 416, the one you have now. Some loads lost what you might expect 20-30 fps per inch, some other loads not as much, and a few loads lost exactly nothing. I much prefer the 18 inch tube, and if the 20s I have now did not have that NECG front sight on them, they would have been cut already. But, I only have a couple of each still with 20s on them.


I think this will move Jeffe in the right direction too with this major project he has going on. At some point we have to start losing velocity, where? 16? 14?? Where I wonder?

How much does it weigh in at now? I am curious as to the RUger Vs Winchester in that area? The Winchester will come in at either 6.25 or 6.5 as I recall, no scope.

By the way, You are very welcome for my intro!

Careful you don't cut yourself with that hacksaw!

M

Can't wait to see and hear what you two sorted out today!

Hmmm, not sure it's weight now; will weigh it Friday at the shop for sure. Not gunna put a front sight back on it either, as with the little 2.5 Leupold, it works just fine. Beside's, if you let that rifle slid down thru your grip after a few beers, a guy could stick that front sight blade right into your hand!

But Michael, I think you need to get rid of that un-needed last inch of barrel and cut back to 17". Not sure I can handle that long a barrel anymore'; nope, not for me. . . . .
The overall length of my Ruger is now just 37".

Thinking about a 17" .416 Ruger. . . . . Hmmmm. . . . . THAT may prove interesting.

I said I was done, but ok. I dont want to debate anything but there is some data available for 20-28 inch velocity loss for ctgs like 243,7mRem and 375H&H.

http://www.loadammo.com/Topics/October05.htm

It looks like for every 2 inch the 375 looses 30-40fps depending if you are out at 26-28 or down around 20-22 end of the cut.

There are a lot of variables, so your mileage will no doubt vary.

quote:

Originally posted by DWright:


But Michael, I think you need to get rid of that un-needed last inch of barrel and cut back to 17". Not sure I can handle that long a barrel anymore'; nope, not for me. . . . .
The overall length of my Ruger is now just 37".

Thinking about a 17" .416 Ruger. . . . . Hmmmm. . . . . THAT may prove interesting.

The overall on your Ruger now is dead in between a 16" Super Short and a 18" B&M. Weight will be interesting. My buddy Bill has a 50 B&M and had it cut to 16 inches. He has short arms too, cut the stock down by an inch, so it's just under the overall for a Super Short. You should shoot some of those 510s I have at 2080 out of it!

Well getting closer to the big test now, Jeffe will have some valuable data from that. DWright has it kicked off now!

M

The formulas are just that, formulas, rather than a case study. I intend to investigate and report the findings, whatever they are, and have a benchmark. Not "the" benchmark, as I fully understand exceptional barrels, various loading techniques, and other variables.

I am stunned at the trivial loss of MV at 17, though!

Guys, quit fooling around and go all the way down to minumum legal, sixteen inch barrel and twenty six inches overall length. About 5.5 pounds sounds about right with a 500 grain bullet at 2300 fps

I’ll try to toss some info into the discussion before we have to leave today…otherwise it’ll be this evening …likely after Michael’s beddyby time before I can get back on the internet.

LW…no just grins and giggles like Dave though I do admit I was impressed with…I know I’ll get it wrong due to my brain-name memory issues…Ron's Glen’s handloaded 45-70s out of his M86 Winchester…they definitely reached out there along with the Dennis’ 300gr 375 Rugers and Michael’s 325gr 416 B&Ms.

Ok, Dennis’ now 17” barrel M77 Ruger in 375 Ruger…it is a very nice and handy package…visually nicely balanced. I personally wouldn’t go below a 17” barrel just to assure that the bozo’s who might want to measure the barrel and do so incorrectly couldn’t mistake my 16” barrel for something shorter and therefore illegal.

Senseless commentary: Dennis’ stock is cut for a 12-3/4” trigger pull length which can be interesting as I require a 14-1/4” to 14-1/2” trigger pull length for shirt sleeve type weather which we had yesterday. I’m not overly tall I just have…well can’t put it any other way…bowed legs that cut my height about 2” shorter than my father and two brothers. So there…Dennis has short arms and I have short legs.

Ok…back to something of interest. We shot multiple rounds of Dennis’ handloaded .375 Ruger cartridges – loaded with 300gr Hornady RNSP bullets - at coffee cups and other objects from 25-yards to about 100-yards distance…and later as we were leaving at another spot where we pegged a 10-inch diameter heavy cloth rag to a wet dirt bank at 325-yards. Dennis was deadly from a sitting or rested position either hitting or clipping the cloth on a regular basis shooting in 3-shot cycles. Myself, I shot offhand with a quick sling rap and came pretty darn close to that cloth rag…no joy but I definitely scared it many times.

Off topic again: I was pleasantly surprised at how accurate Michael’s 416 B&M was with – I believe as load paper was missing – 350gr Barnes TSX bullets…as I placed two rounds very close to a tree limb about 6” above and 6” right of the pegged heavy cloth rag…again shooting offhand solely using the quick sling/hasty sling wrap to steady the rifle. We did have a slight left-right breeze and we did no re-sighting of the M70 at short range after it was receiving as we figured Michael had it nuts on for himself…but none the less I was very satisfied with the long range performance. But…this is a topic for the other thread so enough said…

Back on Topic: We were all pleasantly surprised at the velocity from Dennis’ now 17-inch barreled .375 Ruger. We discussed this over lunch and believe that much of the minimal loss was due to his not loading the cartridges to maximum performance to begin with…and having seen just how accurate it was at 325-yards with a 300gr Hornady RNSP I definitely wouldn’t be concerned about 2300fps vis-à-vis 2500fps.

Here are a few photos of the evidence:

Dennis’ Reading to Shoot His Jeep…LOL…Oops I Mean Shooting Over His RCBS Chronograph


1st Test Firing Over Chronograph – Handloaded 300gr Hornady RNSP in .375 Ruger Cartridge


2nd Test Firing Over Chronograph – Handloaded 300gr Hornady RNSP in .375 Ruger Cartridge

Unfortunately I have to leave now so all other comments will have to wait for this evening. Sorry about any misspellings, I’ll correct them later.

quote:

Glen’s handloaded 45-70s out of his M86 Winchester…they definitely reached out there along with the Dennis’ 300gr 375 Rugers and Michael’s 325gr 416 B&Ms.

Hi Jim,

I hope you had a good time. It turned out to be a great day, inspite of the "Oregon Dew" ealier in the morning.

One very minor correction, I'm Ron. Ain't a big deal, I've been called lots of things over the years.

My 45-70 is an 1895 Ltd. V Marlin. It doesn't look like a standard 1895, so the Winchester '86 confusion is understandable.

I would also like to give you my apology for not offering to let you shoot it. It didn't occur to me since I was just testing some new loads, and assumed that you were mainly interested in shooting Michael's short boomers.

That XS Ghost Ring sight wouldn't adjust low enough, to my disappointment, so the old Lyman is back on it this morning. I know it works.

You're a very enjoyable and pleasant gentleman to shoot with. And a pretty damned good shot, I might add.

I had a great time. Hope to do it again sometime in the near future...

Ron

Hey Ron, just thought of something. Let's go chrono your #1 .375 H&H with some 300s, I'll bring a hack saw, and you grab a hold of it, and I'll chop it down to just 17". Then we'll check the speed. It'll turn that thing into a handy little gun!

Give me $800 (minus the scope) and you can turn it into a pistol for all I care.

quote:

Originally posted by D B Cooper:

quote:

Glen’s handloaded 45-70s out of his M86 Winchester…they definitely reached out there along with the Dennis’ 300gr 375 Rugers and Michael’s 325gr 416 B&Ms.

Hi Jim,

I hope you had a good time. It turned out to be a great day, inspite of the "Oregon Dew" ealier in the morning.

One very minor correction, I'm Ron. Ain't a big deal, I've been called lots of things over the years.

My 45-70 is an 1895 Ltd. V Marlin. It doesn't look like a standard 1895, so the Winchester '86 confusion is understandable.

I would also like to give you my apology for not offering to let you shoot it. It didn't occur to me since I was just testing some new loads, and assumed that you were mainly interested in shooting Michael's short boomers.

That XS Ghost Ring sight wouldn't adjust low enough, to my disappointment, so the old Lyman is back on it this morning. I know it works.

You're a very enjoyable and pleasant gentleman to shoot with. And a pretty damned good shot, I might add.

I had a great time. Hope to do it again sometime in the near future...

Ron

Hey Ron,

I do apologize…I am absolutely atrocious with names and have absolutely no idea where Glen came from...I've correct my earlier post.

I am sorry for misidentifying your Marlin, it is a beauty. I do recollect you mentioning to Dennis that you were trying new loads and a new sight; unfortunate about the sight but you were very accurate with it. I know 45-70s will reach out there but I was definitely surprised just how accurate you were with it at long distances…and without a scope! I think you have some winners with your new loads…this one was pretty nice and I believe accurate as well:


Also no issues regarding me shooting your 45-70; perhaps the next time…And yes I was primarily interested in shooting Michael’s short guns. And I might say that you handled Michael’s rifles very well and shot them very accurately also.

Handguns!!!! You and Dennis were awesome with your handguns…Pelted the heck out of the dirt around that pegged cloth rag at 325-yards!!! I could hardly see the rag at that distance and it took me five shots just to find the dirt. Heck I wouldn’t have scared anyone with any of the six as the last shot wasn’t any closer than maybe 15-yards from the rag!

I very much enjoyed the shoot and the fellowship…you and Dennis were quite the gentlemen. It was my pleasure to shoot with you both; perhaps we can do it again sometime.

quote:

And yes I was primarily interested in shooting Michael’s short guns. And I might say that you handled Michael’s rifles very well and shot them very accurately also.

Hi Jim,

Michael has some very nice rifles. I would have to say that the .416 would be the one that I wouldn't mind having, it peaks my interest. Although the butt stock would have to be a bit longer for me. My trigger finger knuckle still smarts.

I've always believed that .40-.41 caliber bullets are pretty much the optimum balance for intrinstic accuracy and trajectory in hand guns.

I've been a .41 mag addict for years. I also love the 10MM, and my favorite carry gun is a .40 S&W Kahr. Now I'm convinced that .40-.41 caliber works equally as well in rifles.

Thanks for your compliments. My shooting abilities have become somewhat compromised with the deterioration of my eye sight, but I can still keep up with Dennis.

The 45-70 load was an old favorite that I hadn't tried in that rifle. I was pleased that it worked as well as in my other 45-70's.

It may sound odd to some that we conducted our highly scientific ballistic and trajectory tests using someone's discarded skivies on a mud bank, but that's just the way we Ridge Runners come to our expert conclusions. It cuts down on the overhead...

Being able to hit it, and putting a hole through it, is what counts.

Ron

quote:

...we conducted our highly scientific ballistic and trajectory tests using someone's discarded skivies on a mud bank, but that's just the way we Ridge Runners come to our expert conclusions. It cuts down on the overhead...

I was trying to cover that up by using "cloth rag"...

Jim,

I didn't even see what Dennis tossed up on the bank. I was sitting back at the head of the skid road when he threw it up there.

I thought it was a piece of wood or something similar. I didn't have any idea since I didn't look at it through a scope or binoculars from across the draw. I only realized it was a piece of cloth after you posted.

OH Well!! Ya gotta do what ya gotta do...

Ron

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:


As for the "What if I loose my Ammo on the Way to Africa", lame excuse. Don't have to be Africa that you might loose your ammo, United Air lost my 416 B&M ammo in Chicago recently on a trip to the Arctic for muskox. Of course one cannot find 416 B&M ammo on the shelves in Cambridge Bay. But I am not sure one can find much of anything there regardless. I waited 3 of the 5 hunting days for United to find the bag, which they never did. So I flipped a coin, go the hell back home, or shoot with a buddies ugly, muzzle braked, long, Browning push feed 338 Winchester. So I shot 2 with the 338 as I had decided I was not coming back to that place ever, and might as well shoot two and go home. At least I had loaded the ammo for the 338 Winchester as well, a 225 gr Barnes TSX at 2800 and change, did a fine job on two muskox. But loss of the ammo was my fault, I knew better than to trust the incompetent bunch with the airlines. I have never been on a trip anywhere that I did not split ammo between at least two bags, EXCEPT this one. It was so little ammo, 30 rds, and I was pushed for time, I did not bother to split as I should have, and always have. My fault. So if a fellow is headed to Africa with his trusty 375 HH, loaded and tested his Swift As, or Barnes TSX, and Barnes Banded Solids, and is stupid, Like I was, and did not split his ammo. SAA loses the bag, our boy is forced to find some sort of ammo, unknown quality, maybe crappy bullets, or maybe some of the PH's left over client reloads from 10 yrs ago? How much better off are you really? Probably won't shoot to POI, crappy bullets not suited for the job at hand, or reloads some unknown client left the PH of unknown quality, might not even feed in your rifle, might not even shoot, and you want to hunt buffalo with this? Not me! I want my ammo and bullets I have tested. I hate to pollute my WInchesters with factory ammo anyway, and most of the time you are not going to find proper modern loads in the bush! Always, Always, Always, Split your ammo regardless! A lesson for me, Re-Learned!



One can find all sorts of excuses and make up a 1000 different scenarios to justify ones position on a matter, some good, some lame, some lousy. Even to the point, of Missing the Point!

You wildcatters are delusional......

quote:

Originally posted by D B Cooper:
Jim,

I didn't even see what Dennis tossed up on the bank. I was sitting back at the head of the skid road when he threw it up there.

I thought it was a piece of wood or something similar. I didn't have any idea since I didn't look at it through a scope or binoculars from across the draw. I only realized it was a piece of cloth after you posted.

OH Well!! Ya gotta do what ya gotta do...

Ron

Well Dennis touched it! Not me!!! I thought maybe he'd told you it was a pair of skivies. I thought it was part of someone's shirt...but it was kind of woodsy there so skivies it could have been! I guess Dennis will have to tell us...he did touch it afterall.

quote:

You wildcatters are delusional......

Jason

Jason…When’s the last time that you saw 400 H&H ammunition stocked on your local gun store shelves? Or perhaps 465 H&H ammunition?

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

You wildcatters are delusional......

Jason

Jason…When’s the last time that you saw 400 H&H ammunition stocked on your local gun store shelves? Or perhaps 465 H&H ammunition?

Yeah, great point. Or how about 425WR?


My point wasn't that all factory ammo is available everywhere. My point was that wildcatters are delusional because they are able to convince themselves that ammo availability is a unimportant.

I guess I just can't get past the asininity of this statemant:

quote:

So if a fellow is headed to Africa with his trusty 375 HH, loaded and tested his Swift As, or Barnes TSX, and Barnes Banded Solids, and is stupid, Like I was, and did not split his ammo. SAA loses the bag, our boy is forced to find some sort of ammo, unknown quality, maybe crappy bullets, or maybe some of the PH's left over client reloads from 10 yrs ago? How much better off are you really? Probably won't shoot to POI, crappy bullets not suited for the job at hand, or reloads some unknown client left the PH of unknown quality, might not even feed in your rifle, might not even shoot, and you want to hunt buffalo with this? Not me!

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:


I hate to pollute my WInchesters with factory ammo anyway, and most of the time you are not going to find proper modern loads in the bush! Always, Always, Always, Split your ammo regardless! A lesson for me, Re-Learned!



One can find all sorts of excuses and make up a 1000 different scenarios to justify ones position on a matter, some good, some lame, some lousy. Even to the point, of Missing the Point!

Well said Michael , couldnt agree more...

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

You wildcatters are delusional......


My point wasn't that all factory ammo is available everywhere. My point was that wildcatters are delusional because they are able to convince themselves that ammo availability is a unimportant.

I guess I just can't get past the asininity of this statemant:
[QUOTE] So if a fellow is headed to Africa with his trusty 375 HH, loaded and tested his Swift As, or Barnes TSX, and Barnes Banded Solids, and is stupid, Like I was, and did not split his ammo. SAA loses the bag, our boy is forced to find some sort of ammo, unknown quality, maybe crappy bullets, or maybe some of the PH's left over client reloads from 10 yrs ago? How much better off are you really? Probably won't shoot to POI, crappy bullets not suited for the job at hand, or reloads some unknown client left the PH of unknown quality, might not even feed in your rifle, might not even shoot, and you want to hunt buffalo with this? Not me!

Well Jason

It appears that you think I am some sort of dumbass with my asinine statement made above? I don't think you can just make that statement without some elaboration as to why that statement is off base? Maybe I am missing something, you can enlighten me possibly? Obviously since you just can't get past the statement, you have put some serious thought into it.

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:
My point wasn't that all factory ammo is available everywhere.

right.. so factory ammo, or better stated, suitable ammo for your gun may not be available ...

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:
My point was that wildcatters are delusional because they are able to convince themselves that ammo availability is a unimportant.

anyone would be so, per your previous statement, unless they take recautions

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:
I guess I just can't get past the asininity of this statemant:

in your opinion, its asinine

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

So if a fellow is headed to Africa with his trusty 375 HH, loaded and tested his Swift As, or Barnes TSX, and Barnes Banded Solids, and is stupid, Like I was, and did not split his ammo.

why do you consider the parabale of lost ammo, confirming your previous statements reinforcing them, to be asinine?

its hard earned and sage advice, on the very "its available in africa" caliber, the ever available 375HH..

take the word wildcatters out, above, and replace it with "traveling hunters" as that's the context it matter in .. at my home lease, i keep a box of 7x64 in my stand, 6 rounds of 45LC taped inside, and a mixed box of my hunting loads for my 458, 470, and 500 + some 45LC in my dodge truck/bugout bag .. i HAVE left ammo at home., "just" 225 miles ..

don't try to make this a "wildcater" only problem .. anyone seperated from them ammo is going to have tough times ...

if you are traveling with a buddy, ALWAYS split your ammo between your boxes ... always .. don't care if its 30-06 between you, markem and split them

quote:

take the word wildcatters out, above, and replace it with "traveling hunters" as that's the context it matter in .. at my home lease, i keep a box of 7x64 in my stand, 6 rounds of 45LC taped inside, and a mixed box of my hunting loads for my 458, 470, and 500 + some 45LC in my dodge truck/bugout bag .. i HAVE left ammo at home., "just" 225 miles ..

don't try to make this a "wildcater" only problem .. anyone seperated from them ammo is going to have tough times ...

if you are traveling with a buddy, ALWAYS split your ammo between your boxes ... always .. don't care if its 30-06 between you, markem and split them

This is advise good for everyone regardless of the length of your travel.

Not to take sides here but the last time I was in Harare, one of the gun stores had old and new kynoch 465H&H nitro ammo as well as 400 H&H and 465 H&H new Kynoch in good amounts. Very spendy though!

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Not to take sides here but the last time I was in Harare, one of the gun stores had old and new kynoch 465H&H nitro ammo as well as 400 H&H and 465 H&H new Kynoch in good amounts. Very spendy though!

465H&H

Lucky, now may I ask, would you have liked to have to use that stuff on your hunt?


You know something, don't even answer that. This has nothing to do with this thread! And should be on a thread of it's own, and taking this thread way off course of it's intention.

This is an efficiency test, nothing more. This is Big Bores Forum, not African Forum and and these matters should be discussed there for those who are concerned. I am not concerned one way or the other on that matter as I will never find a replacement for the ammo I would take, regardless of the cartridge. So it's a moot point and a waste of time On this thread.

This is concerned only with the Efficiency of two 375 caliber Cartridges, no more, no less. Not whether you can find either in another country.

Enough said about that!

Michael

Michael,

I get the impression that you are blaming me for taking this thread off topic. If I am wrong then I appologise ahead of time. Almost all of you including Jeffe, caphoward, JBrown and your self have responded to this overseas availability issue. But I do agree that it takes the thread way off the intended subject and is best layed to rest.

465H&H

465HH

Oh No, not at all blaming you for off thread! Sorry that it came off that way, but no, not you at all! I have been part of it too, addressing back to the comments, not origin.

Did not mean that you had anything at all to do with taking it off thread, sorry.

Good, then maybe we can get back on thread and forget that foolishness and leave it somewhere else.

Jeffe, back to the efficiency test please! Hope you have plenty of hacksaw blades?

Michael

CHop saw wheels!

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Well Jason

It appears that you think I am some sort of dumbass with my asinine statement made above? I don't think you can just make that statement without some elaboration as to why that statement is off base? Maybe I am missing something, you can enlighten me possibly? Obviously since you just can't get past the statement, you have put some serious thought into it.

Michael

Michael

I don't think that you are a dumbass. In fact I believe you to be one of our more inteligent and scientifically minded members.

The fact that you are intelligent, yet made an absurd statement, is one of the reasons I made the statement the wildcatters are delusional.

There is simply way to argue the fact that any ammo that will go bang in your rifle is better than no ammo at all. Yes it may not be your perfect custom made ammo, but it will get the job done in 99% of the situations you are likely to face. Spending 60% of your hunt waiting for your ammo to arrive is silly. Did you really believe your 416 B&M would have performed any better than a common factory cartridge?

I did not mean for my post to be offensive. I really felt that I was stating an obvious fact.

Now to bring the thread back to the test that Jeffe is going to perform. Jeffe is also delusional in that he believes that he is going to change anyone's mind. The people he is attempting to convert are already actively ignoring the facts. Jeffe's test results will just be one more set of facts for them to ignore.

I think I have a better name to describe this test. I won't mention it, but like "joust" it also starts with a "j".

I am interested to see the results.

Hi Jason

Well, it's good to know that you don't think me a dumbass, so thanks! HEH.

However there is something you misunderstand about me in particular, maybe other "wildcatters" who hunt too. In this instance with the muskox, it was not about going to shoot or hunt two muskox for the sake of hunting muskox. It's about the rifle, the cartridge, the bullet used that is of importance. To me now, the muskox I did shoot hold no special meaning whatsoever to me, I shot them with someone else rifle, at least I loaded the ammo, but they only became a part of the collection, and mean very little to me. The whole point for me going to the field is to go with my rifles, my cartridge, my ammo, my mission, not just to shoot animals or hunt animals for the sake of that alone. For me it is ALL ABOUT the rifles, cartridge, and particular bullet. To use something other than that becomes moot. Had this been one of my hunts for buffalo I most likely would have refused to shoot, as I am there to hunt and shoot with my rifles only, not the sake of hunting buffalo. Since I had no muskox I decided I was never going back there, might as well collect while there and did so, but other than collection, means very little to me. I will not look back on that hunt or shoot with much pleasure, when I look at those ox on the wall what I will remember is not having done so with my rifle and cartridge. Not the pleasures of the adventure!

For me the hunt is about the rifles, the cartridge, the bullets, the act of taking animals is secondary. For instance I am trying to work up a shoot next year for buffalo and elephant. It is not for me to go and hunt elephant or buffalo, as I have done that many times, it's to take one of my 500 MDM rifles and ammo to use. I would not even embark upon the mission to begin with if it were not for the desire to do so with that rifle, that cartridge!

You ask would one of mine performed better than common factory cartridges? In some cases, absolutely yes, some cases equal, but more important, there is not a damn thing "Common" about me, so I have no use whatsoever for "common"! LOL.

Today, I have zero interest at all in going to the field with a "common" cartridge or rifle. It simply does not interest me at all. I would rather be on the range doing test work with other things as to be in the field with a "common" rifle or cartridge, of which I have plenty of.

Maybe these things are silly to some, and that's fine with me. We all have our reasons to go to the field, to experience the great adventures we might find, to view the wildlife, to be up close to dangerous critters that might eat, stomp, horn us, to see the sunset and sunrise on the Zambezi River, to lay out all night in the leopard or lion blinds, to walk for miles day in day out toting an 11 lb beast of a rifle in 110 degree heat to chase elephants, to hear the roars of lions at night, or any number of things that might run thru ones mind. For me, it's many of the things mentioned, but it simply must be my rifles, my cartridge, my ammo, and the things I had worked on for that particular hunt months or longer in advance, and without this it holds zero meaning to me.

So that's where I come from and therefore the misunderstanding I think.

Now, since I hope that is addressed and we know where we stand on matters at hand, we will get back on thread, Jeffe much apologies for letting this get so out of the arena.

Michael