quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
I now have a .500 S&W M500 6.5". I blame Whitworth's book for this.
But it will be a nice companion to the NEF Handi-Rifle of same chambering.

Haha! Glad I could be of "help," RIP!!

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
I now have a .500 S&W M500 6.5". I blame Whitworth's book for this.
But it will be a nice companion to the NEF Handi-Rifle of same chambering.

Haha! Glad I could be of "help," RIP!!

I certainly respect the .50 calibers, but for some time I've been sold on the .475 Linebaugh. Just that one hasn't been sold to me yet.

I have carried handguns for almost 50 years. I purchased a Ruger 480 shortly after they came out, but a few years later when the S&W 500 arrived I simply fell in love with a handgun for the first time. I now own two of them, the original 8.75" and the later 4" model. I have taken a number of african species with the 500, including Buff. They are amazing mass production handguns.

Hey Guys

One of the first of several to come Videos of the NonCons in Ballistic Gel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfPpJNvSRUQ

Awesome!
Well that was violent.
No wonder the heart lung shots are pretty much all lights out shots.
So that was the ER Raptor designed for the 6.8 SPC right? Looked like it.
6"x6"x24" clear block?
Looks like all petals dispersed and exited like the design was meant to. The petals did a great job.
Go frame by frame and see the pressure bubbles inside the gel in front of the impact path as it goes.
You can see the jagged edges of the base cutting as it spirals.
Can't wait for all the videos. Like big bore ones

quote:

Hey Guys

One of the first of several to come Videos of the NonCons in Ballistic Gel

That was plumb purty!!!

Thanks!

PS: I'm suspectin' that little critter would do in the neighborhood of 20 inches in your wetpack!

Quite impressive indeed. It would be interesting to see how the gel reacts if it were encased in something to simulate hide. Are those gas bubble which precede the bullet through the gel? I wonder how the gel would perform with other bullets?

If that was a 6"x6"x24" block it looks like two petals exited and the others close and traveled about 8" before stopping. These bullets are reaching 3,000 fps out of a 6.8 SPC and you can see the lethality these can bring on up to pig size game.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uQx2eHpDVnE
Similar test from Barnes.

Terry "Wennie" need to get a email of the youtube video.

If you stop the video at about 15 seconds it looks like a load of bird shot in front of the bullet ?

Michael, the thousands of bullets you have shot in wet pack, hundreds of bullets hunters have put in bone and flesh, 274 pages of Terminal Bullet Peformance. A slow motion video more than confirms what a CEB bullet was designed to do.

Well unless your blind.

quote:

Originally posted by coyote wacker:
Terry "Wennie" need to get a email of the youtube video.

If you stop the video at about 15 seconds it looks like a load of bird shot in front of the bullet ?

It's "Terry WeeWeeland" and he's gonna cry "Wee Wee Wee" all the way home.

Must be the speed of sound is faster than the bullet in the gelatin, and a sonic shock wave is causing some kind of patchy compression or expansion or phase change in the gelatin,
propagating ahead of the bullet and having some optical effect that the camera and we can see?

That is really impressive, and besides the wounding excellence, that tiny little varmint bullet makes the entire gelatin block jump up and down,
just like a Terry WeeWeeland fit of temper tantrum in denial.

Air bubbles trapped in the gelatin getting pushed out by the impact maybe?
Heck, I've watched this video 10 or twelve times now! Probably watch some more before the night's over.

My guess is there were tiny bubbles in the gell and there was an outward force increasing bubble size perhaps like the bends. High velocity and hollow point bullets make for quite the violent disruption.

Great video.
It shows the devastating effect of the Raptor very well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV8ij1gK-ck
Compare the 180 grain bullet in this video with the 82 grain bullet in the CEB video.

All the hundreds, maybe 1000s, of bullets tested here, in my chosen medium, I could explain, show photos, get the same exact bullet behavior, tell you about it, how it works, even seeing it and the same results in animal tissue......

Nothing Can Show you more than these videos.... Which show you exactly how these work before your eyes.

No, one cannot deny this, and its devastating effect.

Any Aqueous material or test medium reacts exactly the same way... Wet Print, Animal, Ballistic Gel. Bullet behavior remains the same...........

There are more to come.. I think on this first run the largest caliber tested was 375.

It will take BIGGER blocks, for our Big Bores, and even then it is going to be tough to contain.

I have watched several of these videos with other bullets, have yet to see anything with other bullets as devastating as this NonCon..... Also, on many of the other videos they are not showing the permanent wound channels..... Which are again, not as devastating...... I have been telling you this......

Fantastic...... Terry WEE WEE......... What will he say Now??????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfPpJNvSRUQ

Michael

Its great to see these videos, we all know these bullets work but visual aids make the non-believers have nothing to talk about!


Michael, I will try to give you a call today

Matt

Matt

Will be on and off the range, back and forth today, so leave a message if I am not in....

Michael

Great video - except perhaps for wee wee - it's very easy to see how the internals are turned into mush...

Here is a fun one.................

Everyone Loves Watermelon...................




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDhfId9tj4M

This one is cool.
End view.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j...hp2g8&feature=relmfu

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4Yedv-cMqXk
338 Lapua sure makes the gel dance.

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Here is a fun one.................

Everyone Loves Watermelon...................




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDhfId9tj4M

Colorful!
"Hey, elk! Taste the rainbow!"

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4Yedv-cMqXk
338 Lapua sure makes the gel dance.

Amazing, this and the other one!
Firefox won't let me access Boomy's videos where AOL will. Strange.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
Michael:

Could you do me a favor? I know that I have seen load data you had in the 45/70. I looked for it but can't seem to find it. Could you repost it for me? I would be particularly interested in any data you had for the 400 grain BBW#13 as well as the 370 non con.

Thanks.

Dave

All this is in the Marlins, I tried from 48-50 grs of RL 7, 50/RL 7 was too much, starting to get really sticky in the Marlins. 49/RL 7 was giving 1941 fps, 48/RL 7 giving steady 1870 +. I went with the 48/RL 7. With the 370 NOnCon, same story 48-50, with none of them giving any issues, weight equal pressure, at 50 I was getting 1993 fps, but like 49/RL 7 a bit better at 1941..... In 45/70 I really like the way RL 7 performs. Been using it for years......

Michael

Thanks Michael....

I am going to have to give RL7 a try. In my 450 Marlin BLR with a 20 inch barrel I am getting 1887 fps with 47.5 grains of AA1680 and a 400 grain BBW#13. The extreme spread was 22 fps. This helps.

I am going to order some 370 grain non cons to see if I can get them shooting to the same POI.

I am really anxious to hear about your trip to Africa with your 50 B&M Alaskan. I have a number of doubles and large bore bolt rifles but I think a lever gun hunt in Africa would be super cool. These new bullets really make the lever guns so much more lethal.

Dave

I really like RL 7 for many applications... Especially 45/70 for sure... and I think 450 Marlin would be very good as well. Most of the time when I go to lighter weights in all the B&Ms, I use RL 7 and H-4198 for those with incredible results, for instance in 458 B&M RL 7 and H-4198 for 400 and less....

If you run the 370 NonCon with the same amount of powder, POI should be extremely close, if not in the same hole. What I normally have been doing is taking advantage of the less weight, lower pressure, adding a couple of grains of powder or more, and letting that NonCon run faster. At 50 yds, this normally equates to an inch or so higher with the faster NonCon over the solid, which has worked for me in the past very nicely.

Currently right now, I am running the 405 #13 Solid at 2120 fps in the 50 B&M AK.... The matching 365 NonCon at a touch over 2200 fps, and its 1.5 or so higher than the solid at 50 yds. Running the 335 NonCon at 2250 to 2300 puts that about 3 inches over the 405.. Getting a bit far for my tastes, but with that consistent I want to try it on a few plains game..... Aim a tad lower with it...

For all around use here in the states, anything short of buffalo, you should check out that little 250 gr .458 NonCon.... Its wicked I think, and I intend to work with it in 458 B&M some this year too. Was running 2350 fps in an 18 inch 45/70.... Your BLR will run faster, and might be able to run the tip????? Might be interesting......

I am looking very much forward to my hunt this year, With the Lever Gun......! I have not been to the continent with a lever since 2005... And now, I really think this 50 B&M AK is going to hammer...

M

Michael,on the 350 grain non con from CEB in the 50 Alaskan,what is the penetration,how far will they go and would you ever hunt cape buffalo with it?how does the new A-frame 450 grain in the 50AK do?I have punch bullets that are 450 grain and I have shot them through stumps and they penerate very well,just trying to see what would work best in the 50AK,for big game including elk,kev

I almost forget tomention I also have a 500 Linebaugh,done by Dave Clements,would those 350 grain non con CEB,for the 50AK work for them too??

Kev

Ok, lets not get all the 50s confused, not you, ME... LOL.... You are talking the .510 caliber 350 that we did for the dual purpose, seat deep use tip for bolt guns, and just happens to work perfect in the lever guns for 51 Alaskan.... You probably can't work up enough velocity for these to shear in the handguns???? This is being worked on now, but not here. We will learn more about that as the project progresses.........

In the 51 Alaskan, as I now call it to keep my stuff straight, I was pleased with the test results of the 350 #13. I tested the 450 Swift, it was squeezed down to .500 caliber by Layne Simpson, and he wanted to see how they did. Here are the results of that;





Penetration is nearly identical for both. In animal tissue, the NonCon "Blunt Trauma Base", as it is now termed, will penetrate deeper than the Conventional bullet.

Actually, both bullets are more than capable of reaching the vitals on buffalo. I would back that first shot up with a good solid... like the punch bullet you are talking about.

The 365 NonCon that I intend to use on buffalo has the same penetration or similar in .500 caliber, I will be backing that shot with 405 #13 Solids.

In Australia Matthew used a 50 B&M Super Short with extreme success with the .500 caliber 335 gr #13 NonCon at just under or around 2300 fps. It slammed the hell out of buffalo, and we never recovered any.

Michael

Just as a bit of a reminder, the same 350 gr #13 HP fired in a 510 Wells at over 3000 fps.





The impact trauma was MASSIVE to say the least.......

While I think the bullet would do fine on buffalo at 51 Alaskan Velocities, at 510 Wells velocity
this will turn buffalo inside out, skin'em for you, and make a few lbs of burger in the process!!!!

LOL...............

Michael

Michael not to beat a dead horse,I understand that the new raptors have not come out yet.I am wondering if you know how the 225 raptor in the 375B&M penetrate compared to other bullrts on the market in the 270-300 grain.I also would like to know there BC?It would be great to get them going around 2900-2950 fps and flat enough out to 500 yards if needed.I will move to Idaho and elk hunting some times need long shots,I like to stay under 300 myself,Kev

Kev..... For you....
LOL................


The new 225 .375 will penetrate the same as the 230 ESP and as I recall it was deep. The way these work I have no doubt it will out penetrate the heaviest of caliber Conventionals easy.

If you look back to last year when I was shooting the 9.3 B&M with the 210 Raptor, I shot multiple zebra, wildebeast and other critters with it, I never recovered not one bullet regardless of angle, all exited. Elk would be easy and no issue with them.

Michael

Thanks michael,now just have to find something close to the BC of Raptor for practice,something cheap

That is a cool idea to have a same POI Plinker to save moolah.

quote:

Originally posted by kev5000:
Thanks michael,now just have to find something close to the BC of Raptor for practice,something cheap

235gr Speer?

Michael,I was looking through some old post.I do not remember where but I saw you in a long black coat drawing a fine ass revolver,you look like you could go back into the old west and be a gun slinger

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Just as a bit of a reminder, the same 350 gr #13 HP fired in a 510 Wells at over 3000 fps.





The impact trauma was MASSIVE to say the least.......

While I think the bullet would do fine on buffalo at 51 Alaskan Velocities, at 510 Wells velocity
this will turn buffalo inside out, skin'em for you, and make a few lbs of burger in the process!!!!

LOL...............

Michael

That is one of the two bullets that I am considering for my 'allaround' .510" bullet.

I was thinking of running it at 2900fps to 2950fps in the "Nyati." It should get an eland's attention.

Incidentally, the BC calculates out as .26. It's a shame that a little more streamlining isn't/wasn't possible with that bullet. That was probably caused by keeping the 13 degree nose, something that may be useful for solids but that is irrelevant for expanding bullets. Maybe a .30+ version BC will come out in the near future. The GSC 450gn HV in .510" has a .33 BC.

The CEB and GSC are probably the two best examples of modern hunting bullet theory and application.

quote:

Originally posted by kev5000:
Michael,I was looking through some old post.I do not remember where but I saw you in a long black coat drawing a fine ass revolver,you look like you could go back into the old west and be a gun slinger

Kev, yes I still have those photos.... My friend, and pal right here, RIP.... Sent a WONDERFUL gift of a couple of extremely nice "Black Lab" coats, which being my favorite color, if you consider black a color, and with my little Nickname RIP gave me embroidered on them... I was showing them off a bit......





I love those Black Lab Coats...... Just thinking, I need to take them and have the new B&M Buffalo put on them as well.............

Michael

Lab coat or western duster, works great either way!

You got your Cowboy Action Shooting persona, kit and kaboodle, well done there, "Doc M," except for the black sneakers, need some black cowboy boots.