Meplat size greater than 70% causes too many feeding issues in a bolt action.
67.5% or 68% is perfect for maximizing penetration and ease of feeding.
Limiting penetration and increasing wound trauma with the +70% meplat would work in a double rifle or single shot,
not a bolt action.
I have been rained out of deer hunting.
No 3 AM departures this AM.

Good Morning Guys! I see it's been busy the last few days, good. Excellent discussion, and review. I also see on some other threads that some folks don't get it quite yet, but seem to be coming around, MAYBE...... Who knows?

Anyhow, Meplat, let me clear a few things up, quickly, if I can.

Yes, in your situation concerning the Hippo, you and Andrew made a perfect decision, and it was more than enough to do the job. The 515 Solid would have passed through, and would have entered the second hippo broadside for sure, any good solid would have done the same, most any of the BBW#13s in various calibers would have done so. I hit my last hippo broadside with the 458 B&M, 450 BBW#13 at 2200 fps, burned through like he was butter, doing plenty of damage on the way. However, there was nothing on the other side.

Correction--Solids test medium vs animal tissue. Not double on solids, but one can expect 35% average more penetration in animal tissue than in the test medium--Rule of Thumb thing. With expanding, and now NonCons, it runs 80% to 100% more penetration in animal tissue, than in test medium.

quote:

The can of worms here is, what penetration depth should be considered ideal?

Depth of penetration should never be limited by design. First and foremost there are many other factors to consider before getting to depth, most important is "Stability"---Terminal Stability. We know we start to approach Terminal Stability at 60% meplat of caliber, BUT--We have to have fast twist rates, and velocity to gain on stability at 60%. At 65% meplat of caliber we have Terminal Stability, and in most cases regardless of twist rate or velocity. From 65% to 70% is optimum for Stability and depth of penetration. The BBW#13 Solid is a 67% meplat, by design. The North Fork FPS Solids designed for the .500 caliber B&M rifles and the .474 B&M rifles is 68% Meplat of Caliber, by design. Optimize Stability, and depth of penetration, and Feed In the Winchester M70s without flaw. At 70% meplat---They don't feed without modifications, and I would just as soon leave those modifications out of the B&M equation!

Solids are made to do a particular job asked of them---Penetrate Straight and penetrate Deep. We need this because we need to be able to handle most any situation we might run into in the field, as you can bet, the scenario won't be the "Perfect Shot" when in need of the life saving, Solid. So you take all you can get, there is never such a thing as "Too Much". If you find yourself in a situation exactly like you did, your 470 Copper NoNCon did exactly what it needed to do.

Michael

Guys

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating the use of round nose bullets in order to limit penetration. The can tumble and veer off course, as we know, making them unreliable.

What I was suggesting is making the solid more destructive by keeping it inside an animal while retaining sufficient penetration to reach the vitals from any angle (i.e. the less than perfect shot). Any time that a bullet exits an animal it is taking away energy with it that would be better spent inside the animal. 100% energy transfer equals more trauma, as the testing shows.

Michael, thanks for correcting my error regarding test media penetration vs animal tissue. I had expanding bullets and solids the wrong way round. Nevertheless, 68" of penetration is more than enough to go through just about any critter, from any angle (excluding elephant).

However, I do take the point about feeding reliability. As a user of bolt guns as opposed to doubles, this is a very important point that I did not include.

Still, for dangerous game, I think that maximum trauma is not only desireable on the first shot, but also for each and every follow up shot.

Had I been in possession of the BBW #13 hollow points during my Cape buff and hippo hunts earlier in the year, I wonder whether I would have felt the need to load solids at all, as these HPs penetrate pretty deeply anyway. Neither of the backup solid shots I fired at each of these critters were recovered. Cape buff solid exited shoulder after passing through from rump. Did not see an exit hole on the hippo after its rump shot, but I suspect that it was there, possibly on the underside (hippos are not so easy to roll around looking for holes - they weigh a bit!).

Well, I can content myself with knowing that I have the option of choosing a lighter weight solid if I want to reduce penetration a little, while still maitaining it deep and straight line. Better still, I can also choose #13 hollow points or soon to be available big bore Raptors for the ideal mix of pentration & trauma.

MeplatFS

" projectile fragmentation can turn the energy used in temporary cavitation into a truly destructive force because it is focused on areas weakened by fragment paths rather than being absorbed evenly by the tissue mass. The synergy between projectile fragmentation and cavitation can greatly increase the damage done by a given amount of kinetic energy."

WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE WOUND BALLISTICS LITERATURE, AND WHY
by M.L. Fackler, M.D.

IMO my opinion this is part of what happens with a NonCon which sheds its pedals. Not only do the fragments do their cutting damage but they increase the amount of damage done by the core which remains.

Michael:

You should be reading the "Obama and his buddies..." thread. If Barnes losses their appeal, this could be a direct threat to CEB as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
Michael:

You should be reading the "Obama and his buddies..." thread. If Barnes losses their appeal, this could be a direct threat to CEB as well.

Dave

I have seen it. Very much aware of the situation. CEB is currently sending samples and talking to the powers that be. I think this is a knee jerk that stems from an indirectly related incident with another company, and unfortunately it seems Barnes was named by unsaid company. I actually think in the end it will all wash out and won't be much of an issue. After all, this does in fact relate directly to "Handgun" bullets, of which some have said to have made modifications to rifle bullets, but it's a very far reach, and in the end I think we as DG Shooters/Hunters, will be ok. As the full intent of all the BBW#13s is for DG and big bore rifles, and this is what they are designed for, of that there is no doubt. I think Barnes will be ok when it's said and done. As will CEB, North Fork and others. Even in the worst case scenario there are always options.

Keep the Faith!

Michael

Raptor has struck again. I shot a cull deer today with a .223 40 grain Raptor with tip at 125 yards. The rifle was a 22-243 Middlestead with a 1-8 twist. Velocity was 4345 fps at 15 ft from muzzle. Deer dropped so fast I wasn't sure of my shot as he was in a small opening. Not a wiggle out of it. Bullet did incredible damage inside and broke the entry shoulder and exited just behind the off shoulder. Very impressive for a 40 grain bullet.

Sam

I guess I should have posted this on small bores sorry.

Awesome!
Deer did not have a chance.

Great shot with the raptors, Wish my cousin had them last weekend for his first deer rather than some american eagle factory loads, I am sure we would have found the deer.

If anybody is interested I posted in the handgun hunting forum about Hollow points failing. It not a big bore topic but I watched a cheap bullet ruin a 15 year olds first deer hunt.

Thanks
Matt

quote:

Originally posted by Seasons44:
Great shot with the raptors, Wish my cousin had them last weekend for his first deer rather than some american eagle factory loads, I am sure we would have found the deer.

If anybody is interested I posted in the handgun hunting forum about Hollow points failing. It not a big bore topic but I watched a cheap bullet ruin a 15 year olds first deer hunt.

Thanks
Matt

Matt

Of all the things I have said about using the right bullet, of all the things and reasons and arguments I have ever put forth, or ever heard in my life, what you have just stated above is the most valid reason to have a proper bullet--EVEN FOR DEER--That I have ever heard!

Thanks for bringing this to the table for all of us on terminals. I feel for your young cousin and his first deer. An awful experience for sure. One that as hunters at some point or another have tread on before unfortunately. Hopefully a lesson learned by him, and by all of us as a reminder that even with deer you need a proper bullet. Yes, from what I am seeing, and hearing, in either Raptor form, or BBW#13 NonCon that they are damned deadly on deer. A friend of mine here in SC called last night, with his 4th deer that fell to a 55 gr BBW#13 at 3700 fps in his 223 WSSM. That's 4 shots--4 deer all dropped to the shot now. Sam with his Raptor deer above, tremendous damage, and the thing exited to boot! Then there are two more deer dropped by Raptors in TX as well. Pretty amazing to me, for a 223!

Again, I think its excellent you bring this to the table to let everyone know that no matter the game, one should have the best bullet you can have! There are plenty of good reasons, but the reason you give is very compelling!

Michael

quote:

Reply

Michael
Thank You,
You are finally the one person who really gets what I was trying to convey, My post may be long winded but thank you for cutting out the b/s and getting to the heart of my point.

I have never considered the 223 a deer caliber but the raptors have changed the game.

Thank You for all your hard work

Matt

Michael:

In Pierre van der Walt's new book, there is a very interesting section on bullets and why they behave the way they do. I am going to copy it and send it on down to you. I think I am beginning to understand the mechanics that keep a solid bullet on a straight path and not tumble even though it doesn't loose any sectional density by becoming shorter like a soft does. It a very good read. I'll get it to you.

Dave

Thank you! Would love to see what Pierre has to say about bullet behavior!

I will look forward to it.

Thanks Pal!

Michael

quote:

Thank You for all your hard work

Matt

No thanks needed, it's a pleasure!

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Dave

Thank you! Would love to see what Pierre has to say about bullet behavior!

I will look forward to it.

Thanks Pal

Michael

PREVIEW from earlier in the thread

From page 283 of Pierre van der Walt's African Dangerous Game Cartridges, "to my mind the day of the round nose solid has come and gone." He then goes on to say, "The new generation of large meplat solids such as the GS Custom and the North Fork have arrived. I don't use anything else any more."

I hope Pierre makes it to the DSC and has a chance to meet with CEB. I'm sure he'll expand his list one more. I don't know how to introduce him to the S & H line, but that too would be a nice addition.

On page 94 of the same book are some interesting photographs showing the stability of various bullet designs going through gelatine. The conical nose doing a "flip" and the round nose going unstable are clearly photographed. Apparently, the varying density of the target medium is a factor in the round nose's insatbility. So, if the round nose was lucky enough to pass through a constant density in the target, it should stay on path. That might explain why the round nose goes unstable sometimes and sometimes not. In addition, the channel left by the bullet is larger for the flat nose, except when the conical tumbles and goes who knows where.

IBT

Also from earlier in this thread.

" projectile fragmentation can turn the energy used in temporary cavitation into a truly destructive force because it is focused on areas weakened by fragment paths rather than being absorbed evenly by the tissue mass. The synergy between projectile fragmentation and cavitation can greatly increase the damage done by a given amount of kinetic energy."

From:

WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE WOUND BALLISTICS LITERATURE, AND WHY
by M.L. Fackler, M.D.

IMO my opinion this is part of what happens with a NonCon which sheds its pedals. Not only do the fragments do their cutting damage but they increase the amount of damage done by the core which remains.

Michae;:

I sent you most of the chapter on soft nose bullets as well as the entire chapter on solids.

Read the soft nose first. There he talks about the myth of sectional density and that discussion leads right into the softs. I think this will give you a better idea of why your flat nose solids perform so well. It gets a bit technical but it's a mountain of good information. Post Office says it will arrive on Monday. Also notice that our own Ganyana appears in the book several times, once putting down a charging bull elephant with his 9.3X62. Don, you da man!

Michael, Check is off to Wayne for the 600 OK, and have 50 new cases plus an order in at CEB for some #13 Solids and Non-Cons. Just about ready!

After all of the recoil threads during the past week of so:

I just picked up my second scope with 5" eyerelief. It seems someone put the Nikon Omega on $99 clearance and I couldn't resist. I still haven't shot one of these, but the 5" eyerelief is real.

Dave

Thanks Dave, I will be on the lookout for it. Sounds like Pierre is getting very close to being on the same page as we are here, eh? Maybe Pierre has been reading us and picked up some good ideas from our work! HEH......... I am pretty sure I already have a good idea about how things work, but always good to see others are learning as well!

Thanks a bunch! Sounds like a breath of fresh air, and actually has some "To Date" stuff in the book! All the rest are just same old trash that has been around for 50 yrs, seems like some of the others might take a hint and get up to date with modern bullet tech, and rifle tech!
I don't even bother with any new books coming out from some of these guys, same old same! But sounds like Pierre is doing rather well with keeping up! Good deal, maybe this will open eyes up to the real world!



Biebs

Crap, I am sorry, but sounds like you have the .620s sorted out, I think I was supposed to check for what I had and get back to you??? I think I forgot! Or maybe I forget, that I forgot...................Something, like that anyway!

Go back on this thread to where we were testing them with Docs rifle, some of those lower velocity loads were doing EXTREMELY well, and much more pleasant to boot!

Tanz

I have that Nikon slug thing scope on the 475 B&M and I have to say, so far so good! It's clear, it's not so big that it's not workable, and I have probably right around 300 rounds through it now after doing all the load data and test work with it since I put it on. No issues thus far. But.......................?????

M

quote:

Michael wrote:

Tanz

I have that Nikon slug thing scope on the 475 B&M and I have to say, so far so good! It's clear, it's not so big that it's not workable, and I have probably right around 300 rounds through it now after doing all the load data and test work with it since I put it on. No issues thus far. But.......................?????

M

Well, that's good news. Very good, and what should be expected for something marketed for 500 grain projectiles.

Glad to hear that 5" eye-relief works for you. I'm thinking that such an eye-relief may set a new standard for big bore rifles, at least for anything below a 577TRex.

So my two 5" eye-relief scopes ought to last a long time. The one that arrived yesterday was the Nikon Omega 1.6-5 with 100 yard parallax setting. Camo to boot. Never had one of those. Now the Nikon Slughunter will probably be my backup with its 75-yard parallax. naturally, you would reverse that, but both are still good to farther than even I care to shoot (400 yard is max for me, and a long, long way in a flat scrub forest like most of Africa).

PS:

Apparently they still have one or more of those 5" eye-relief, Nikon Omega 1.6--5 power scopes for $99 over at Natchez Shooters. Enjoy.

Well Tanz, like I said, so far so good on the Nikon. I have had one of those Nikon African 1X4s for some time now, also reasonable price. I did not like the tall adjustment knobs much to begin with, but the scopes mechanics are good to go, I dare say more positive than the VX3 Leupolds! I hate that to say! I did not care much for the larger eye piece, but the focus on the rear is Excellent! It is also clear as a bell, lot's of eye relief, lot's of field of view. I hate that German cross hair thing, but the more issues I have with other scopes, the better I am liking the Nikon scopes, at least until I manage to bust one! I have had the Nikon on a 458 B&M for some time, I took it off when I went to Zimbabwe with the rifle, and put on a 1X4 Leupold VX2. Which managed to get some black flakes floating around inside when in Zim! As did the 500 MDM which was equipped the same? Both are off now, and I put the Nikon on the 500 MDM and have been trying to bust it, but have not succeeded, but have shot less than a 100 rounds as well. We will see!


Sam and I plan some test work this coming week with some of the Raptors in calibers I won' allow to have permanent status here in the lab! 270, 7mm, 375. So he is loading up now, and we will be seeing how these do this week. I suspect I know, if they are stable. Stability is the only issue with the Raptors, and I can't wait to see a 9.3, 416, 458, 474 and of course a 500!

Michael

I am just done using some hours for 3 days reading the whole thread from page 1 to page 206:P
Very interesting and entertaining read

I am not so much of a big bore person, but that has mainly to do with the fact that I can't afford shooting them much.
My biggest is just a 375Ruger and that is more to be considered as a bunny buster for you lot

But I am a person that is very interested in bullet performance and ballistics.
And this thread has taught me lots about bullet construction and bullet performance.

Thanks to all that have contributed to this thread

I will have a look at the small and medium bore forums regarding these bullets and see if I can make some comments there as I have much more knowledge regarding the small and medium bores than the big bores

quote:

Sam and I plan some test work this coming week with some of the Raptors

Finaly, something to watch for on AR.

Keith

quote:

Originally posted by Norwegianwoods:
I am just done using some hours for 3 days reading the whole thread from page 1 to page 206:P
Very interesting and entertaining read

I am not so much of a big bore person, but that has mainly to do with the fact that I can't afford shooting them much.
My biggest is just a 375Ruger and that is more to be considered as a bunny buster for you lot

But I am a person that is very interested in bullet performance and ballistics.
And this thread has taught me lots about bullet construction and bullet performance.

Thanks to all that have contributed to this thread

I will have a look at the small and medium bore forums regarding these bullets and see if I can make some comments there as I have much more knowledge regarding the small and medium bores than the big bores

Welcome to the big Bore forum. Don't let your lack of experience keep you from commenting. A lack of knowledge hasn't stopped anyone else from posting here!

465H&H

I think it would be a good time to move the Raptors to the medium/ small bore threads.

Did you see what Sam did to his deer? If you want to eat it, maybe the Raptors aren't the best choice. Not the best advertising to the deer hunters.

quote:

Originally posted by Hog Killer:

quote:

Sam and I plan some test work this coming week with some of the Raptors

Finaly, something to watch for on AR.

Keith

On this episode of "As the bullet turns"
Will the 180 grain 7mm Raptor be stable?
Will solid bullets be legal?
Can Michael shoot straight after 5 Grey Gooses?
Will Michael ever get his beloved 9,3 raptor?
This and other questions will be answered on "As the bullet turns"
Yes I look forward to these tests more than new episodes of Breaking Bad, Sons of Anarchy or Dexter.

I am looking forward to a .375 Raptor as I think this is the ultimate caliber to make the Raptor in.

For very many it is the one caliber to do it at all gun and it would be perfect to just load up the same bullet for all sorts of use when out hunting with it.
No need for 3 different packs of bullet when reloading.
I will for sure order some for my 375 Ruger when they are available

Hi Norwegian!

Big Welcome! We all appreciate the kind comments for sure!

quote:

I am a person that is very interested in bullet performance

One of our interests as well! For years I listen to discussions to the effect of "What Cartridge" for what--"What Rifle" for what? But rarely is the bullet considered, and the damned bullet is EVERYTHING! Without the bullet, the other is moot! Whatta gonna do, throw the cartridge, or beat them on the head with the rifle? It's the bullet! Then the rifle, then the cartridge. Gotta have all three working together.

quote:

Did you see what Sam did to his deer? If you want to eat it, maybe the Raptors aren't the best choice. Not the best advertising to the deer hunters.

I don't know Dave, I think it's pretty damned good advert for the Raptor. Got to consider this was a little TINY 40 gr Nothing! And, IT EXITED? Incredible I believe! Dropped dead to the shot! Big performance from a tiny thing. Eat? Well, you have to get them on the dirt before considering eating one eh? I go right back to the young fellow that lost his FIRST deer ever because of bullet performance, or lack of. I think better to put them on the ground first, worry about what's left to eat later! I don't eat those things anyway, so maybe I am not the best on this subject! Me? I would just as soon explode them like prairie dogs so there is nothing to clean up! LOL..........


Hi Keith and Boomy!

Yep, back to work tomorrow, on the range doing some terminals. Have to get busy this morning and refreshen the terminal boxes, get everything set up to get it done. Will be chewing medium in the morning! We simply must weed through these smaller bores so we can get to the real deal!

I shoot much better after 3 gooses, 5 gooses I think I am shooting better, but have a hard time keeping the rifle still! Found a cure for that, get closer to the target after 5 gooses! But now I am having problems with muzzle blast and powder burns on the target!




9.3 and 375 Raptors! Yep, I still have no damned 9.3 Raptors! What I think about these right now is that these are the go to, do almost everything bullet for these calibers. I am thinking 220 grs for the 9.3 and I think the 230 for the 375 is good to go. I think that these bullets will be fine right on up to buffalo and everything below. I think the BBW#13 NonCon end will have more than enough penetration and trauma for buffalo, I think the other BBW#13 Solid end will have more than enough penetration for second shots if needed as well. I might only want more of a solid if you take on elephant with these mediums, which I probably would never plan on personally. A Raptor in these calibers will turn them into something they have never seen before, I believe! Thin skinned critters are done for, Dangerous or not! Wait and see! This is my thoughts on it! In 9.3 I plan for the Raptor to be the do all in the B&M version and plan on seeing it in action this coming season!

Michael

Oh and Tanz

Just FYI---Yesterday I ordered a second Nikon 1X4 African, and while I was at it I ordered a 2x8 Nikon to go on my small bores, 416 and 9.3s, to see how it does? Gotta tell you, I am becoming more impressed with these, of course I have not broke one yet either, so time will tell.

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Oh and Tanz

Just FYI---Yesterday I ordered a second Nikon 1X4 African, and while I was at it I ordered a 2x8 Nikon to go on my small bores, 416 and 9.3s, to see how it does? Gotta tell you, I am becoming more impressed with these, of course I have not broke one yet either, so time will tell.

Michael

Watching how they hold up will be helpful, though both of the new scopes that you mention have 4" eye-relief, so keep the GreyGoose handy or far away, depending on perspective. [close-by to soothe pain or disinfect, or far-away so that accidents don't happen. :-) ] Of course, I am exagerating. 4.0" is good eye-relief, but it touches my shooting glasses sometimes, (or does recoil sometimes knock the glasses off?).

I'm looking for a way to put a 1.65-5 power, 5" eye-relief Nikon on a CZ 550 Safari Magnum.
That 1.6-5 Nikon only has a 4.76" maximum mounting area on the tube, but the big CZ receiver has 5.1"-5.2" external ring measurements, if I remember. I will need a back extending front ring mount or a forward extending rear mount.

Why do this now, when I've never cut an eyebrow? I like the 2-8 Nikons currently on our 416s, but I'm thinking that a 5" eye-relief would allow for faster gunhandling without concern for the eyebrow. I always doublethink this and triplethink when on a bench or sighting in.

I would like to try out the 5" eye-relief on one of our 416s but I'm having trouble finding a good 'extended' ring combination for the CZ. Does anyone have experience with this or know if CZ, Burris, Warne, or Talley have special-order rings for a CZ that are not commonly accessible on websites?

Michael

Look foward to here how the nikon's hold up,

Not everyones first choice , Weavers can handel some stout recoil without a problem. My buddy has his mounted on his lott for a while now and has not had a hiccup. A pretty good buy for the money.

Matt

416Tanzan,

You can use a off set ring to mount that shorter scope. I did this on my model 70 416. With the CZ you might not find a offset ring but you could maybe get Weaver bases and then use Weaver offset.

Sam

I will keep you guys posted on my "Nikon Kick" we will see how it goes. Right now I have a 1X4 African on one of the 500 MDMs, it has not hit or bit me yet. Of course I am only running 500s at 2400 and 460s at 2500 fps, rifle is pretty heavy at 8 lbs, so not running anything much in it yet. We will see. But so far---So Good!

Something to share, was talking with Dan this morning. They have been busy up there working on the Raptors. Doing some tweaking on the top band for accuracy of all things. Well, they have been dead in this 230 375 Raptor pretty heavy, getting accuracy up to expectations, and checking BC with the tips. I was informed they are very happy right now with the .375 230 Raptor! They shot some 5 inch groups this weekend, at 600 yards with it. BC was calculated at .500. I would say 5 inches at 600 yards is pretty spiffy. Now here is the kicker, we are not talking about a big target bolt rifle, or some special spiffy target rig--We are talking 5 shots, 5 inches, 600 yards, With a Ruger #1! Yes, you heard me, Ruger #1. I have since made sure they now have a proper rifle up there, Winchester M70 to work with!

Sam and I busy day tomorrow, these 230 375s are a big part of it. But there is also some rat bores we will be working with as well. I am quite sure right now that there will be no way I can post any of the work tomorrow, but I promise to be working on it and will post ASAP. I think we are also going to get a surprise visit from another AR member here, but will let you know about that when he arrives tomorrow! Going to be a fun day, but full of hard work as well.

Michael

Just opened the mail, Dave Bush, I received the "Book" you copied today. THANK YOU! Very Very nice, we ain't talking rollem off xerox here, we are talking scanned, printed HIGH QUALITY, looks like the book copy! Thank you very much. Soon as I get to it, I will comment and we will see what Pierre has learned! HEH.........
Thanks Dave, mighty nice of ya!
Michael

quote:

M

500s at 2400 and 460s at 2500 fps, rifle is pretty heavy at 8 lbs

music to my ears.

Makes my anticipated 550AccR sound downright heavy and tame at 9-lbs with scope and 2600fps with 450grain.

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
416Tanzan,

You can use a off set ring to mount that shorter scope. I did this on my model 70 416. With the CZ you might not find a offset ring but you could maybe get Weaver bases and then use Weaver offset.

Sam

thanks, Sam. I'll remember Weaver,
though I'm hoping to find something that mounts directly on the CZ. I suppose that one could glass bed the Weaver mounts for a tight fit and then use 'low' rings to keep the height from climbing too high.

This is good news!
When things are clicking the Raptors seem capable of some great accuracy out of ordinary rifles.
Methinks with the .5 BC the 375 HH and 375 Ruger should be shooting these 230's around 2,900 FPS and shooting flat as a 30-06. Waiting with excitement for the terminal report
Can you please post pics of the loaded rounds?
The plains of Africa just got more dangerous for the trophy Kudu past 300 yards with the 375 raptor on the hunt.

quote:

Something to share, was talking with Dan this morning. They have been busy up there working on the Raptors. Doing some tweaking on the top band for accuracy of all things. Well, they have been dead in this 230 375 Raptor pretty heavy, getting accuracy up to expectations, and checking BC with the tips. I was informed they are very happy right now with the .375 230 Raptor! They shot some 5 inch groups this weekend, at 600 yards with it. BC was calculated at .500. I would say 5 inches at 600 yards is pretty spiffy. Now here is the kicker, we are not talking about a big target bolt rifle, or some special spiffy target rig--We are talking 5 shots, 5 inches, 600 yards, With a Ruger #1! Yes, you heard me, Ruger #1. I have since made sure they now have a proper rifle up there, Winchester M70 to work with!

Tan,
I'd swear that within the past year that I saw an advertisement for a set of CZ rings with the rear ring offset to accomodate shorter mounting length scopes. Unfortunately I can't recollect right now who made the rings!
Have you contacted CZ's custom shop to see if they know where you can obtain an offset ring?
Also you might want to post an inquiry in the Gunsmithing Forum; perhaps you can be pointed in the right direction.