Hughman,

Congratulations on a successful and exciting safari

I hope that you do plan to post a hunt report up above (I haven't checked there yet).

Excellent shooting and excellent results.

OK I have been doing a little testing of the CEB #13 223 55 gr non cons. I started out using my 22-243 Midlestead and got up to 3792 fps out of these bullets, not at top yet. I was a little disappointed with the accuracy at 400 yards with most groups being about 4 inches and some out to 5 inches. I also noticed that the BC was not very good and required more elevation than a standard match bullet. This figures because of the large hollow point. I shot 55 grain Hornaday V-Max to compare and they went poof at that velocity. Just a little smoke at the shot.
So today I decided to try these non cons in my CZ 527 Varmint 223. This gun has a 1-9 twist and is very accurate. I loaded 26 grains of W 748 Federal small rifle primers and the following bullets. CEB #13 55 gr non con, Military 55 gr FMJ and Horn 55 gr V-max. The loads were sighted in at 100 yds and the 55 gr FMJs shot right of center so they were not shot for group. I moved back to 300 yds and shot several groups with both CEB and V-Maxs. The mirage was bad and wind was 6 to 16 miles per hour but I did have a tree line to break wind. First groups were about 3 inches and had wind or mirage stringing. I let gun cool and fired another 5 round group with each bullet. I'm not going to show the V-Max group because it was over 3 inches. After firing the second group with the CEBs I was pretty happy with the results. I then went back to 100 yds and shot the CEBs again to check elevation. The Non con requires 3.75 minutes more elevation than the V-Max. This is somewhat understandable with the large hollow point verses the pointy plastic tip on the V-Max. I think with the BC tips added to the CEBs we will have a much better BC and bullet drop will be less.

Sam

Is the bolt face on the Model 70 Safari Express
big enough to do with the 550+ calibers what needs to be done? If so, can the reciever of the WSM action be machined enough to accept that bolt? I'm guessing that the Model 70 Safari Express bolt has a bigger face?

I wonder if a Raptor with a brass tip, loaded with the solid end forward will give less velocity loss at longer ranges due to reduce base drag? I'm saying brass as I'm guessing the current tip material will melt in that use.

IBT,
If I recollect correctly all M70s have a 0.700" diameter bolt - including their Safari rifle.

Sam

I don't know much, but that looks like it is shooting pretty darn good to me! I have not messed with it yet, been too busy with other things.

Oh, and glad you did not load 27 grs, like I told you, good to drop one down with those bullets! 26 looks like it's doing just dandy. I don't know where my mind was when you asked me this morning? 27 with conventionals. I see you sorted it out!

Hugh

Congrats, thanks for bringing us the bullet report! I understand about not recovering bullets from the field, sometimes not possible! Many times I faced that too! Sounds like they did good enough however, and you have a dead buffalo without too much issue! But also, you did your part, you did not wait around to see what happened after the first shot, you kept shooting, like you are supposed to, and you started the dance in good fashion at reasonable buffalo range! Job well done, regardless of bullet performance good or bad, it's the man that made this one work! Congrats again! And thanks! Next time I think we have a way, or I should say, Dan has a way to get you those BBW#13s!

Michael

Sam
Would be interesting to see your results when the 22 raptors come out.

Ya Michael; still waiting for your test results with a .375. . . . .

Yuk. . . yuk. . . . !

Boom Stick,

When I get them I'll try them.

Can someone tell me why my top photo on the post keeps rotating. I had it right side up to start with and it is now on its side for the second time.

Sam

Sam,
Do you mean the 300-yard target? It looks OK to me witht he ruler horizontal, your writng properly oriented. The date-stamp on the photo is along the right boarder which tells me you rotated the camera 90 degress counter clockwise when you took the photo.
Am I missing something or are you pulling my leg?

CCMDoc,

It was flipped over twice but its back like it should be now. Maybe I'm seeing things.

Sam

Just returned from a Zim Elephant hunt. Michael has asked that I post this here. I used my Ruger RSM .458Lott with the 480gr CEB #13 solids and couldn't be more pleased with the bullet performance.

After walking/climbing over 12 miles (measured on my pedometer) the first day, on day two I took a tuskless cow out of a feeding herd at 25 yards by placing my first round into her left shoulder. The intent was to anchor her so that she couldn't push off with the herd in a chaotic stampede that would then require more tracking and sorting her out. We tracked the herd for two hours, loosing and regaining the track, before getting into position for a shot. The plan worked well as the round smashed the shoulder, causing her to fall as she turned and attempted to flee. She crashed to earth as I put a second round into her hip. We had good wind so backed down so as to avoid a charge by the then pissed herd. The matriarch and another tusked cow tried to lift her to her feet, to no avail. I put two more rounds into her from 35 and 50 yards, hoping to finish her and drive off the herd.

We recovered the first round in virtually pristine condition, with only the rifling marks to show it had been used to smash an elephant shoulder. None of the other three rounds were recovered as they were all through and through.

I had a second tuskless on license for later in the hunt, after my partner took his bull Ele and Lion. Unfortunately I suffered a pulled groin muscle around day 8, which proceeded to get progressively worse, and simply could not track up and down over the long distances required, so did not take the second Ele.

My partner got a nice symmetrical 40-45 pounder on day three and a great male Lion near 26 inches on day four - he has uncanny luck on DG and always makes it seem so easy. Unfortunately he had need to send his Dakota .458Lott to a gunsmith shortly prior to our departure and thus did not have time to work up CEB loads for his rifle. He used some type of tungsten bullets his rifle was already zeroed with. He had a separation failure on his Ele and a failure to open on his Lion. His rifle was empty when he killed his Ele with a frontal brain shot, after missing high on his first shot, at short yardage with the last shot from the magazine.

BIG LESSON: He short stroked a round on his Ele, but because he had attended the SAMM safari shooting school down in Texas some months prior, he had been taught and trained on the immediate action drill to clear just such a jam. He did it immediately without thought and it probably saved his life. The short stroke did cost him a round, reducing his available round count by 25%. He is a confirmed believer that the money he spent on the big bore rifle school was worth every cent. If you have never been trained either in the military or law enforcement on immediate action drills, please consider getting some training before you venture out to Africa, even if only for PG. I've had two incidents on 16 safaris in Africa (both with borrowed weapons) over the years and in both incidents reacted based upon a lifetime of combat shooting drills. One of those involved my stopping a charge mere feet in front of me.

Three of our rifles had to be re-zeroed due to loose screws caused by excessive turbulence on the way out - roughest flight I've ever had. My partner installed his spare Leupold 1.5-5x on his .458.

I took a Sharpe's Grysbok and a Klipspringer with my .223 using the Hornady V-Max 55gr. load - couldn't get the CEB NonCons before departure - after some difficult hunting and long range shooting. These were the only other animals on my list. Partner took a bush Duiker but failed to connect on the Klippie and Grysbok. They are small and quick, for sure.

I'm still healing, so that will have to be all for now.

Hey that line up needs a Raptor
Maybe Sam can put a crayola crayon in a lathe to reproduce the tips but also fill the cavity on the carnivore. Have 64 color tips to chose from
Melted wax/crayons can be topped off by a tip in the Carnivoire.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Well then:
Wax-filled cavity: That's for a "Brazilian."
Right now the nips, er uh, tips are more interesting.

Doc M,
I'm glad all my years in Fluid Dynamics didn't go to waste

Cheers, John

Holey smokes;
waxed filled, switcheroo, turn-a-bout, reversable, carnivor, raptor, talon !

It's all a fella can do just to keep up with the reading, let alone the comprehension, of what is evolving on this thread !!!!

Excellent work from all invlolved.

For those of us who are still draggin their knuckles on the ground, please try keep the names short so I can remember the name when needin to order a few.

Mike

Thanks for posting the info. Here on "Terminals" we like to hear of successful missions! While we don't like to hear about bullet failures, we need to so that we can learn from them as well as the successes!

Congratulations on a successful hunt, sounds like you guys had a tremendously good time, except for the pulled muscle of course! I can sympathize with that situation as I had something going on with a nerve on my hunt in June. Sounds like to me the 480 BBW#13 did it's job for you!

Can you give a little more detail on the separated solid on your partners elephant? Did it break, or jacket separation? That is not a good thing, either way.

You are 100% correct on the training part of a hunt. Lot's of folks do not train, have not been trained, and some don't even practice. I doubt anyone here on this thread, or most even on the forum does not, but a vast majority of folks going across that I have seen are green as can be. They are not shooters at all. I have seen some really scary gun handling in my days!

I wish I would have had those 223 BBW#13 NonCons for you, but I did get them while you were gone, and as you see from some of Sam's shooting they do pretty well in the accuracy dept, and from the test work in terminals they do a good job. Animal tissue and trauma transfer?? I don't know yet, we have some in the field and soon we should hear about some field performance on some deer I think.

Recover well my friend and thanks for dropping in and sharing.

Michael

quote:

It's all a fella can do just to keep up with the read

Paul, I know the feeling! This crowd is hard to keep up with, especially when things start rolling!


OK, I have a deer report this morning! I loaded a few of the 130 Raptors last week for my remodel contractor and friend of mine. He hunts deer every weekend, and shoots a 308 and I have been loading normally 150 Hornadys for him the last few years. Which has been a great bullet for him. Well today he tells me he wants nothing but Raptors from now on! He shot a doe the other day, "Doe Day" for meat mostly. I got a pretty detailed report, and pleased with that. I loaded the Raptors to around 2850 fps in his rifle, and they shot to the same POI as his standard Hornady load, so there was no downside on POI. Where he shot the other day is only around 65 yards, so it was close.

The bullet entered left side, quartering away, so not a severe rear raking shot, about in between from what I can gather. The entrance hit a rib going in, tore a huge hole shown to me about 4 inches in diameter on the entrance, with liver hanging out of the entrance. Left lung completely torn in half, massive damage to right lung. Something hit spine and damaged 3 vertebrate??? Was not the bullet, as the main bullet exited on the right shoulder. Exit was a 30 caliber exit hole. Everything in between was totally destroyed I am told. Excessive damage to vital organs and tissues, very little to no meat damage at all, a good point for the meat hunters I suppose. Heart was not damaged or hit. It was bang, flop. No running, not even a step, bang and drop to the dirt.

This is reported direct to me not 15 minutes ago. I give it to you as it was given to me. First words were, "That is one Bad Ass Bullet".

Michael

Awesome to hear the raptor got it's first prey!
It kicked some @ss. Deadly is is deadly does.
Hope to hear a good report the other hunt soon.

Michael,

Could you weigh these bullets and post the weight please?



Sounds like very good performance from the Raptor...another AR/MIB/CEB success!

If I've computed things correctly, this should be the 480yd impact result



fired from RIP's 49-10 at 2700fps MV. I think that would be pretty darn good! Most definately far beyond what I can accurately shot.

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
Michael,

Could you weigh these bullets and post the weight please?



Sounds like very good performance from the Raptor...another AR/MIB/CEB success!

Jim

Remaining bullet, retained is 330-332 grs

M

OK Michael, per your request, here's the corrected data on my partners failed rounds:

Solid: Speer Grand African 500gr. tungsten @ 2287 fps. A missed high frontal brain shot that did NOT knock the bull Ele down and was recovered in two pieces!

Soft: Woodleigh 480gr @ 2247 fps. A through and through shot at 60-70 yards on a broadside Lion. It never opened and kicked up dirt after it exited. The Lion went into the long grass - not good - but partners shot did for the heart and we found him 30 yards into the long grass, stone dead. Had he not hit the heart it would have been nasty to sort out as the Lion was only a few yards away from a narrow and deep korongo which I'm quite sure he was trying to reach.

The CEB #13 and the CEB NonCon would have solved both animals without the drama, IMO. I am a true believer in the CEB bullets and will be using them exclusively in the .458B&M I am currently having built by SSK.

Thanks Michael.

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
OK Michael, per your request, here's the corrected data on my partners failed rounds:

Solid: Speer Grand African 500gr. tungsten @ 2287 fps. A missed high frontal brain shot that did NOT knock the bull Ele down and was recovered in two pieces!

Soft: Woodleigh 480gr @ 2247 fps. A through and through shot at 60-70 yards on a broadside Lion. It never opened and kicked up dirt after it exited. The Lion went into the long grass - not good - but partners shot did for the heart and we found him 30 yards into the long grass, stone dead. Had he not hit the heart it would have been nasty to sort out as the Lion was only a few yards away from a narrow and deep korongo which I'm quite sure he was trying to reach.

The CEB #13 and the CEB NonCon would have solved both animals without the drama, IMO. I am a true believer in the CEB bullets and will be using them exclusively in the .458B&M I am currently having built by SSK.

I have tremendous faith in the efficacy of the CEB#13 solid. That is the only bullet I will be taking for my 600NE V-C double in 18 days as I go for elephant.

Hopefully I'll have a nice 10 yard frontal brain shot AND I do my part because I know the CEB will do its job.

CCMDoc
Would be good to swap your avatar for the used 600 BBW CEB if you recover it

boom stick,

From your keyboard to the elephant's ears ...

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
OK Michael, per your request, here's the corrected data on my partners failed rounds:

Solid: Speer Grand African 500gr. tungsten @ 2287 fps. A missed high frontal brain shot that did NOT knock the bull Ele down and was recovered in two pieces!

Soft: Woodleigh 480gr @ 2247 fps. A through and through shot at 60-70 yards on a broadside Lion. It never opened and kicked up dirt after it exited. The Lion went into the long grass - not good - but partners shot did for the heart and we found him 30 yards into the long grass, stone dead. Had he not hit the heart it would have been nasty to sort out as the Lion was only a few yards away from a narrow and deep korongo which I'm quite sure he was trying to reach.

The CEB #13 and the CEB NonCon would have solved both animals without the drama, IMO. I am a true believer in the CEB bullets and will be using them exclusively in the .458B&M I am currently having built by SSK.

Mike

My friend Daryl from Australia spent some time in July with my other friend and PH Andrew in Zimbabwe. He was shooting a 50 B&M and his own 416 Daryl Special (WSM), I forget what Daryl calls this 416, but it's around the same ballistics as the 416 B&M.

Now, in 2005 I used extensively the 340 Woodleigh in Tanzania in a 416 Remington for my light rifle, shooting things from hartebeast, zebra, and my roan. The bullet performed absolutely impressive, I was extremely pleased with it for those type tasks. So, when I built the 416 B&M, I really could care less what it worked with at the time, as long as I could shoot that 340 Woodleigh!

Daryl, listening to me speak about the performance of the 340 Woodleigh, and of course being Australian to begin with, it was a match made for him to use the 340 Woodleigh in his 416 for lighter things, like zebra, kudu, things like that, which he did in fact. Problem is, they were just zipping right through, not expanding, doing nothing, exactly as you say happened to your partner! I could not quite grasp that, as it had done such a great job for me back in 2005. But Daryl knows his stuff and is very particular about investigating things like that, so I knew it was true. Now it seems that your partner had the same issues as well.

Like many here I have tremendous faith in the various BBW#13s. Not only have I tested every single one of them, but have put them in the field as well. I have never gone to the field with anything that can compare with them. I have the same expectations but some limited experience with the North Forks. Boys, it may start elsewhere, but any way you cut it, It Ends With the Bullet! Succeed or Fail, can come down to the bullet! Choose wisely!

Mike, do you see the tests I have been working on of late with the Carnivore bullet? This is "The Lion Bullet" of the century! This bullet will turn a lion inside out! Or that is my thoughts on it thus far anyway! This is the EXACT same bullet as the 480 BBW#13 Solid, and the 450 NonCon--only it has a very deep cavity taking it down to 430 grs over all, same length mind you as the 480 and 450. Those big long blades shear at 2-3 inches, rip and tear everything in between, some of the larger blades would even exit the other side of a broadside lion, along with the main bullet, everything ripped to pieces in between, and no sacrifice of penetration! The heart of your partners lion would have been shredded, along with a lot of other things where those blades go through. This thing is wicked to say the least. The 458 and 416 are going to get my approval just as soon as I do some more low velocity test work, hopefully this week! Then it's off to a few more of the most popular calibers, .474 and we are going to refine the .500 Carnivore next.

I already sent all refinements to Dan for the .500s this weekend. Lengthen the nose projection of the lever bullets and add length to the current main bullets, the 500 BBW#13 Solid and the 460 NonCon.

Guess what I got today? 5 New Stocks from Accurate Innovations, along with one of my 500 MDM rifles back! Oh yes! It's true! Photos tomorrow, and I will show you something nice! A surprise or two as well! Other news, new 475 B&M stainless coming next week!!!! Now I have a stock for it too! YIPPIE----

Michael

Michael,

I gotta call Brian at SSK for an update on my SS .458B&M!!! Should be down to less than 60 days out, I hope!

We need to find some RUM brass for these puppies.

I await the unveiling of your latest toys. And to read up on the latest Lion Load.

It would be a cool test to see nominal 30-30 ammo against the 30-30 with Raptor CEB BBWs It would also be interesting to see the terminal performance of the 30-30 loaded with raptors against a 300 win with conventional softs.

Another page turned...

Hey Boomer,
You've got me wondering?
Raptors in the 30/30 Vs 30-06 with conventional 150 cup and core.
See witch has the mose destructive result.
The old 30/30 just might beat it.

Cheers, John

There has been a lot of talk about the old 30/30 the last week or so, now with these new Raptors! My interest has even been aroused, as I have several 30/30 Winchesters laying about. It's been many many years since I loaded any 30/30s, and even shot one, probably going on 10-12 years at least. But I am working towards getting in the lab and loading some Raptors to test in the next day or so in 30/30.

I think the consensus is that the ESP Raptor just might turn the old 30/30 into a totally different animal! I think we should find out!

Michael

(peanut gallery)

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
(peanut gallery)

I'm a proud member of that group!

Well I did not get to the 30/30s today! Just ran out of time. Have to find some brass, make up a load, and get it done. Will try tomorrow........ I am also going to have to dig around to find one of the rifles too?

Michael

Thanks for the effort Michael.

Thanks Boom!

I do have something for you, I almost forgot in all the hubub about the stocks! I did get a test in the other day with the Raptors, with the TIPS! I found bottom end of terminal performance as well.

Here is what things look like with the Multi Purpose ESP Raptor!




First test with the tips inserted was standard full load in 308. And the destruction was massive, perfect shear, zero issues at all.



Second test was some less velocity than I tested last in the low velocity tests, and I found the point at which they do not shear reliably, just call it 1700 fps with the 130 ESP Raptor. 1 did shear, two did not. The two that did not also lost stability and were full sideways, but tip missing. I speculate the tip caused the instability, and when it got sideways broke out.



With the added tips Dan says the BC is around .300 on this bullet from the tests they have done, actually he says it is slightly higher, but is willing to call it .300. At this it will be over 400 + yards before dropping to that velocity, at 308 Winchester Velocities! Of course, in the larger capacity cartridges that range will extend quite a bit. You do the math.

Michael

Ahhhh a bullet so ugly only a father could love
1,700 to 4,000 fps is a great functional impact velocity envelope.
Seems Dan will make some copper ones for the communist zone er um I mean Condor zone out here in Cali.
The scoop is the 338's are next up at about 225 grains so thats exciting for all you 338 lovers. Bullets should be available next month through CEB website. Exciting stuff!

I have been lurking on this thread for some time and PM’ing Michael from time to time as well. Time to jump in with some of my experiences. I am in no way the pro that many of you are, so forgive my naivety! But I may rival Michael in lengthy posts after I get done with this one…

First a quick blurb on my background. I am headed to Africa next October with my dad, and a couple good friends. Dad and I are planning to target Buffalo and some Plaines Game. And the others are looking at Plains Game only. Mark Young has been very patient with my group and our thousands of Questions. He has set us up with Terry Anders of Savuli Safaris and we will be hunting the Save. This is my second hunt in Africa, the first one being in Namibia in 2007 with AR member Stevie.

For this trip I plan to shoot a 450 Dakota for my Buffalo gun, and I am also brining a 375 HH as my second/Backup rifle. I picked up the 450 from Idaho sharpshooter (AKA Rich) and my 375 HH from Fred Gordon (AKA Fred Gordon). I call the 450 Bethany, and the 375 Monique. Both Monique and Bethany are CZ 550’s.

I am very excited about these NonCon Bullets. Have been playing with the following:
.457 caliber BBW#13-both Solid (480 gr) and HP (450 Gr)
.375 Caliber BBW#13 both solid (300 gr) and HP (275 Gr)
.223 Caliber BBW#13 HP (55 gr)
Here are the loads I shot:

First of all, I am really impressed with the quality control around these bullets. When loading bullets, I measure OAL from cartridge base to the Ojive using a comparator. Typically I see variances in OAL of +/-0.005 in or more on match bullets. I then go through and run them through the seater again until I get them to within 0.001 in length. As I seated the Cutting Edge Bullets, I was getting all my seating lengths to around +/- 0.001 on the first seating attempt. I got curious and measured/weighed the bullets. They were all +/- 0.001 in length (to Ojive and to nose) and weighed +/- .1 grains too (my scale only goes to tenths). I did a similar exercise last year with Sierra match king bullets and found as much as +/- 0.5 grains in weight, and +/- 0.03 inches in length. This is a huge difference. I don’t shoot well enough to notice a difference in .002 in of bullet length, but it does show a really good focus on quality control.

Let’s start with the .457 caliber.
I went with the .457 caliber rather than the .458 caliber so that I could take advantage of the heavier weights. I am currently shooting 105 grains of H4350 with a 500 grain swift A frame, and 107 grains of H4350 with a 500 grain Barnes Banded Solid. These are compressed loads. I had wanted to shoot 105 grains of H4350 with the BBW#13’s, but due to the loss of neck retention I got when moving to the undersized bullet, I was not able to compress the load. In fact, with some of the bullets I was able to turn the bullet in the neck and if I wiggled it a bit, actually remove the bullet. It is important to note that this movement went away once I crimped them. I had to drop my load down to 102 grains to get them to seat to the proper depth.
On the range, I was able to get better groups than I was with the other bullets I had been loading When shooting the 500 grain TSX’s, Swift A frames, Barnes Banded solids and 480 grain Woodleigh Hydro’s, my 100 yard groups were about 2 inches. The BBW’s were shooting around 1.6 inch groups. I did however loose velocity by dropping the powder charge.
Here is a table showing the velocities I get for differing loads:


As you can see, I am only able to get about 2300 fps from these bullets with H4350. This is about 100 FPS slower than the 500 grain bullets. The lighter bullet also represents a significant loss in momentum, Muzzle energy and Sectional density.

Now, in reading parts of this thread, I can see that the theory behind these bullets is, that due to the shape of the bullet, and the performance characteristics, traditional measures of SD, MV, and Energy do not apply in the same manner to NonCon bullets. This is a hard theory for me to get beyond, but I am working on it! I want to do some penetration testing this spring to convince myself. If I can get close or equal to the same penetration with a lighter slower bullet, then I will be sold!

.375 Caliber
Here was my problem. My 375 HH has been a great rifle. Shoots well, accurate, easy recoil, etc. The problem I have been having has been around POI with different bullets. The Mission: Find a quality expanding and quality solid bullet that both have the same POI at 100 yards or less. I won’t get into the details, but this has been mission impossible. I have found several solids and expanders that shoot well at 100 yards, but I will have 10 to 12 inches in difference between the Points of impact! At one point I had a TTSX with a below starting load, and a Barnes Banded Solid compressed and I still had a 4 inch difference in POI.
Along comes the BBW#13. Wow. PROBLEM SOLVED with these bullets. First of all, the groups are outstanding. I was getting 1.5 inch groups at 100 yards with other bullets, but with the BBW#13’s that has pretty much dropped to under an inch on average. This in and of itself was pleasing. But the best part is, that by loading the solids one grain hotter than the NonCon’s, I get identical POI between the two bullets.

Here are the results from my shooting (velocity spread is the FPS spread between the high and low reading of the string. The strings were 4 shots each.)

My best load seemed to be 69 grains of RL15 for the Solid, and 68 grains of RL 15 for the NonCon. This was giving me about 2480 FPS for both bullets. I went back out a few days later and did some experiments. Check out these groups. Note that these are mixed bag groups with two different bullet types

The photo above is a 100 yard 4 shot group (two solids, two HPs). I pulled just a little on the one shot that went to the left making this group a bit larger than it should be (1.4 inches). A guy was on the range trying to chat with me and broke my concentration!

This photo has 3 Non Cons and one Solid. The group size is 1.44 inches, and the range was 200 yards.
I went back to the range later and shot some with 73 grains of powder and the primers were flat, but not cratered or extruding so I think I might play with some faster loads in the upcoming months.

I only get one hunt a year with pretty much a guaranteed animal. Gillette Wyoming for Pronghorn. I decided to try out the new NonCon bullets on a Pronghorn using the 375 HH. Overkill I know, but I was really excited to see how they perform. I am not really proud of my kill here, but thought it was worth the self embarrassment to show the performance of the bullets.
The conditions were sub-optimal. Winds were at 30 mph sustained, and it was rainy and in the 40’s. I found my quarry at about 280 yards. I lined up the shot, and in the excitement of the moment, I neglected to account for wind. (I am really embarrassed about this!) The Animal was clearly hit, but did not go down. It stood perfectly still with its head down. I moved to about 110 yards and took a shot through the neck and it went down HARD. Upon investigation I found that the first bullet had been right at the correct level, but the wind had moved the bullet POI. The bulled passed clean through both back legs making a nice neat hole in both legs. No bone in the bullet path, and the place the bullet passed through was about 3inches of muscle per leg for a total of 6 inches. The bullet path was dead straight which is what I would have expected from any bullet with just muscle to penetrate. The entry and exit holes were about the same size, perhaps .4 to .5 inches in diameter. A closer look showed that the petals had indeed separated in the first leg. I found a few small exit wounds from around the exit hole on the first leg, tracked them into entry holes on the second leg and body. I recovered one petal in the second leg, and found where one had penetrated into the rumen. I tried to locate that one but could not. The petal I recovered weighed 9 grains.
It was odd that the animal did not run at all after a flesh wound in the legs, and I have to think that the added trauma of the petals helped me out as I have seen Pronghorn run far further after less of a hit.

The neck shot was brutal. The entry hole was about the same size, but the exit wound was about 3 inches in diameter. Simply amazing damage. This was probably about 8 to 10 inches of penetration and the expansion, trauma and blood loss was unlike anything I have seen hunting.

I am very much sold on the performance of these in my 375 HH!

.223
Long story on this one, but to make it very short, these did not work for my rifle. I was shooting them out of a slow twist (1:14) 22.250. This gun does not like heavy bullets made by any manufacturer, and being that these are longer than lead bullets, under sized, and heavy, I just could not get them to stabilize. I plan to test these out in my 222 Rem next and see how they shoot.

That is about it, but I have a quick comment about Dan from Cutting Edge Bullets. What a GREAT guy. I called him up and chatted with him about the .223 bullets. We talked for about 30 min about different bullets, loads and ideas. When I explained how the .223 bullets did not work in my rifle (which he had warned me about prior to me placing the order) He even sent me some 40 grain .224 bullets to play with at no charge. He has also let me have access to some of the newer bullets that are not yet for sale-can’t wait to play with those! I am VERY grateful for his assistance and advice. Salt of the earth guy. Looking forward to loading up some more shells and hit the range/field.

Also, thank Michael for all your guidance and advice. Very much appreciated. I’ll report more as I get more info from the different things I am playing with!

Great post!
Thanks for sharing.
It seems there will be a few 22s from CEB one being a raptor. Maybe three is my guess. Twist testing will be interesting.

Rob H,

Great post and glad you have stopped lurking. Very impressive report and that pronghorn story I think does show how the petals form the non cons do lots of damage. A conventional bullet would have just made two holes.

Sam