I don't know if he has pics of the targets? He did not mention it. The 130s he did were experimental, he did not have many of them, I have the last 50 coming to me, with tips and I will be running some more tests on them.

And as far as coming to SC, you already have the welcome mat laid out, as always! But you must make a better plan this time to stay a little longer!

Michael

Thanks!
Will do sir
Will be great to hear the reports especially from long distance past 300 yards. Speaking of lever guns... In the pici posted above of the tipped 370 grain 458 non con. That would be a great bullet for the lever gun as a 350 grain ESP Raptor without the talon tip. Use the first round as a non con then the rest as flat nose.

Hey Michael,

Quick question…or is it questions? Hum…

Anyway, don’t recollect if it was the TBP thread, or one of the other threads, but I seem to recollect a discussion about changing the length of the smooth nose surface – leading edge of the top driving band to Meplat – to something like 0.700” on the bullets designed for the B&M and longer cartridges and 0.600” on the bullets designed for the B&M SS and similar length cartridges on all new bullet runs.

So if I’m not totally batty, do the new .458 Carnivore and .308 ESP Raptor prototype bullets conform to the 0.700” smooth nose surface length? If not, is this something that’ll be explored before settling on a full multi-caliber run?

Yep…that’s about the only thing(s) I could think of. Otherwise…darn good performance from the Carnivores and ESP Raptors!!!

Guys, so much going on I forget to mention things. Once again, concerning the "Raptors" you are going to have to step out of the box for me. All the "Raptors" will be lighter bullets in caliber. Such as the 130 in 308 caliber. We must not forget, these are Non-Conventional, heavy bullets are not needed in this role, it buys you nothing. So for any given caliber the weight will be lighter.

Now remember, these are "Rat" calibers, not big bore buffalo, elephant busting calibers! You must remember your conventional bullets in these calibers will only penetrate 10-15 inches in this test medium. If you go back to where we did some extensive 338 testing and recall, you will see the deepest penetration with any 338 caliber bullet was a 225 Barnes TSX at 3177 fps and the petals sheared, it went to 18 inches, a 250 Swift and 250 Barnes X went to 18 inches also. That was the deep end--All others were in the 10-15 inch range. Just last week, a pissy little rat bullet in 308 caliber, weighing ONLY 130 grs went to 20 inches! 130 gr 308, to 20 inches! Get that in your mind! I don't think there is a conventional expanding 308 caliber bullet that can possibly penetrate to 20 inches! So why would you need or want more weight? Do you want deeper penetration, then turn the 130 around and make it a BBW#13 Solid and it goes to 40 inches then!

All the Raptors will be light for caliber, they have to be, they are made of brass, brass is light, to get the proper length to fit in your average magazine with the tips attached, then they can't come in heavy, they will be too long. You don't need heavy bullets with a BBW#13 NonCon, nor solid for that matter! Out of the Box!

Boomy, yes, Dan just mentioned the lever guns, and the 130 Raptor is perfect for 30/30, I had not even thought about that, but it's good to go as is with no tip right now. In fact, I plan to attempt to test in 30/30 to satisfy that issue. It will be a hammer in 30/30 I think, and best of all worlds, turn it around for a solid if you want! NonCons are flat enough to work in the tube as are the solids.

ESP Raptor, crap, I am even excited about this thing now! It must be catching, a disease or something!

Capo

The .700 or slightly more nose projection is standard fair, works on anything, including the B&Ms. The .600 projection is only going to be for the Super Shorts, which will also do very well in all the other standard rifles and the B&Ms. Take a 458 Winchester for example, the .700 projection is standard on the bigger bullets, 450s, 480s and so forth, but the lighter 458s, the 325s, 400s will have a .600 projection and of course the lever gun bullets of the same weight will have the lever projection, which I think is around .450 or so. There won't be anymore need for other lengths. That catch you up on that?

Raptors, I am not sure, but if you look at the bullet you will see the projection of the solid end is far more than the noncon end. This is so the tip can fit in the noncon end, and still work in the magazines. I have not measured the projection of the solid end, and not sure it makes any real difference in the rat calibers anyway. Jesus, 40 inches of penetration with a 130 gr 308 caliber bullet? Who cares to have more than that! Add 35% and you get animal tissue penetration!

ESP Raptors! I am with boomy now, wow! But, don't think for a minute that I am going to be swapping spit and bending over to pick up soap with the "Rat Calibers", they can't hold my interest that long! Big Bores is where I live and breath!

Michael

On the ESP Raptors to have the bullet be a switch point and feed from the mag with the tip dictated the location of the bands. The flat nose side will have the most smooth nose portion and optimal penetration potential whereas the non con destructiveness is based on lack of "smoothness" lol.

So Dan said up to 375
Does that mean the 9,3 as well?
I'm sure the 375 crowd would love a long range destructive bullet that can be a super penetrator too since the 375 and 416 are the fish/fowl big bores. I am with you Michael. Hallelujah and Amen! Preaching to the choir and the fat one just hit a high note. I'm glad you and Dan got religion on the Raptor rapture.
Rapture those critters with a Raptor and rupture something fierce.

Michael,

10-4 on the smooth nose lengths.

Hey, how about doing all of us a favor and measuring the two lengths from leading edge of driving band to Meplat? That’ll allow those of us who are so inclined can start noodling about how we're going to use them in our rat calibers...as well as perhaps some mental designing of some .416+ calibers.

Boomy

quote:

On the ESP Raptors to have the bullet be a switch point and feed from the mag with the tip dictated the location of the bands. The flat nose side will have the most smooth nose portion and optimal penetration potential whereas the non con destructiveness is based on lack of "smoothness" lol.

Spot on correct! Actually incredible, especially since we just learned this weekend about longer nose projection for solid penetration!

The rumor is ESP Raptors from 375 down, every major caliber, and damn straight 9.3 caliber included, as I will want them for the 9.3 B&M. With a 9.3 B&M lurking, count on 9.3 bullets of every BBW#13 formula!

I think once we get Dan past the rat calibers we might be able to talk him into 416 to .510, what do you think? I think so!

I will admit something, but deny it later! I want a .257 to put in the 25 WSSM, a 6.5 for the 6.5 WSM and Momma's 6.5X55, then 338, 358, 9.3s, those are the ones that have particular interest to me. But no major caliber will be left out, he says he is doing them all. I think Dan's light bulb hit bright this past weekend with them.

I am loaded up, sorta, for tomorrow. I am having issues with the new pressure trace system, hopefully sort that out this week, all the while getting some more terminals in with the 458 Carnivores and the 416 Carnivores. I knew the PT would not be, plug and play, damn aggravating crap! But I think maybe I have some ideas to get it up and running. We will see. The PT is a sensitive bitch sometimes!

Now people, are all of you outside the box? Everyone is on board? No questions? Everyone understands the Carnivore? The ESP Raptor? How about it lurkers? Questions? Don't be shy!

Capo, just now see your post, I will try to remember to measure in the morning for you.

Until tomorrow!

Michael

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...youtube_gdata_player

Thanks Michael... I'm sure you'll remember, if not I'll just pester you again. How about the BOAL while you're at it.

Nice youtube Boomy. Still trying to answer my grandson when he posed the question, "If humans evolved from apes why are there still apes?" He didn't bite on my answer, "only the dumb ones stayed apes."

Michael,
Put me down for some of those in 6.5 WSM... and .338 WSM... and .30 cal for my grandson's .30/30.
Oh, and lest I forget, when Dan decides to make some of those for .458, I'll take some of those also!
Umm, and I'll buy that BLR magazine from you and some of the .458 bullets for my now .450 Marlin and soon to be .458 WSM.
(Hmm, may have to look at the bank account.)

ESP Raptors by CEB: Excellent!

They are "green" bullets too, legal in California if the brass is "unleaded" enough.

There may still be a need for the dedicated FN-Heavy in some stodgy-nostalgic elephant calibers,
but an ESP Raptor in any bore of 9.3mm and up will do for everything else, if driven fast enough.

Bud Heavy and Bud Lite:

From the website
This made me so proud. I hope it does the same for you.
http://site.cuttingedgebullets.com/pages/news

We have been in the development and testing phase of the newest addition to the Cutting Edge Bullet Line. We are adding an "ESP" RAPTOR line of bullets that are absolutely the finest bullet ever made by anyone in the world. The Enhanced System Projectile, ESP, is a complete system bullet and incorporates a double ended BBW#13 nose profile on each end of the bullet. One end is a solid that when loaded in a cartridge with it sticking out provides extremely deep penetration that can be used on animals where the absolute deepest penetration is desired. The other end is our hollow point design used in our dangerous game brass bullets that provides absolutely the best terminal performance you have ever seen along with penetration greater than any conventional jacketed bullet available. To top it all off there is an add on tip that will be supplied that increases the BC by 2 to 3 times over the flat nose BBW#13 nose profile. These bullets are truely on the cutting edge and are so easy to develop a load for you will be amazed. Handloaders will be able to pick a speed they want to shoot a bullet at, pick a powder that provides that speed, load the bullet with one band sticking out of the case and shoot a group at 100 yards almost guaranteed to be under 1" on the first load. Often times with a good scope the first group will be under 1/2". I know it sounds to good to be true but every rifle we have shot them out of has produced these results. They may not be the prettiest bullets you have ever seen but I guarantee they will be the most accurate, most devestating bullet you have ever shot. The picture below is what the system looks like.

Continued.
The ESP line of bullets will be available in calibers from .375 down to .223. All will come 50pcs to a box with 25 tips supplied for the individuals that shoot long distance to 600 yards. Regardless whether you load them as a solid, hollow point, or tipped hollow point, the point of impact at 100 yards is within 1" or less. Tips are to be installed by the handloader which are easily snapped in on a as required basis. These incredible bullets in most calibers will be available by the beginning of November and interested people should call to see when their caliber is scheduled for completion.
---------------------------------------------

The accuracy is exciting and I hope some smart gun rag does an article on all the BBW bullets.

It looks like CEB has a good reason to go to the next SHOT Show.

Cheers, John

I'd love to go to the shot show again. Viva Las Vegas!
Now I just have to work on getting a pass to get in.
CEB did an incredible job making a concept into a world class bullet. Heck a new class of bullet.

Yes, I'm on board for some .510"s.
10 December would be nice, but anytime before summer 2012 could be accomodated. This will save the need to import a bunch of GSC 450 grainers. (Like RIP's "that was a 450 grain GSCustom at 2654fps in the 500 Mbogo").

For 416's it will leave me with a question of what to do with 2 boxes (100 rounds) TTSX that I haven't found an opportunity to load and carry overseas? Ah yes, Gunbroker.

Things just keep getting nicer in the bullet.
Pretty soon, someone will start a petition to save the polar bear by opening up sustainable hunting to US hunters. Not that I would be able to afford one, but we can't leave the polar bears floating at sea.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
From the website
This made me so proud. I hope it does the same for you.
http://site.cuttingedgebullets.com/pages/news

We have been in the development and testing phase of the newest addition to the Cutting Edge Bullet Line. We are adding an "ESP" RAPTOR line of bullets that are absolutely the finest bullet ever made by anyone in the world. The Enhanced System Projectile, ESP, is a complete system bullet and incorporates a double ended BBW#13 nose profile on each end of the bullet. One end is a solid that when loaded in a cartridge with it sticking out provides extremely deep penetration that can be used on animals where the absolute deepest penetration is desired. The other end is our hollow point design used in our dangerous game brass bullets that provides absolutely the best terminal performance you have ever seen along with penetration greater than any conventional jacketed bullet available. To top it all off there is an add on tip that will be supplied that increases the BC by 2 to 3 times over the flat nose BBW#13 nose profile. These bullets are truely on the cutting edge and are so easy to develop a load for you will be amazed. Handloaders will be able to pick a speed they want to shoot a bullet at, pick a powder that provides that speed, load the bullet with one band sticking out of the case and shoot a group at 100 yards almost guaranteed to be under 1" on the first load. Often times with a good scope the first group will be under 1/2". I know it sounds to good to be true but every rifle we have shot them out of has produced these results. They may not be the prettiest bullets you have ever seen but I guarantee they will be the most accurate, most devestating bullet you have ever shot. The picture below is what the system looks like.

It appears to me that the major advantage for this line of bullets is logistics (one type on hand to be loaded as wanted)for the user and manufacturing efficiency (one run to be made rather than two and one stock on hand instead of two)for CEB without compromising performance.
Now, if a means can be devised to turn them into Carnivores, we'd have all levels of performance available in one bullet.
Humm, how about an intellegent bullet that changes configuration upon impact? or within the magazine upon signal?

quote:

Now, if a means can be devised to turn them into Carnivores, we'd have all levels of performance available in one bullet.

I wouldn't hesitate to use a Raptor on lion. Simba would learn that it was time to run, not charge.

WOW Boomy, I think Dan is excited about the Raptor! I had not seen the News on the website. I think he is serious about this! Looks like we will have an entire line here in a few weeks! I bet he has the whole crew up there working on them now!

Well, as they get done, and in calibers I have, we will go to work on them and see what they are made of. I hate small bores, I hate all mine! Finicky little bastards, maybe these bullets will shoot so good in them they won't be finicky anymore? I suppose we are going to find out eh?

Well done crew, well done! Especially you Boomy!!!!!


Carnivores? Did someone mention Carnivores? Well nothing earth shattering for you today, just some lower velocity of the 458 BBW#13 Carnivore. Want to make sure there are not issues at lower velocities is all. And even if there was, it can't fail, it still drives straight. But we need to know this so we know what our limits are.





Still getting plenty of trauma even at these lower velocities. These were a lot of fun to shoot as well, 38000 and 35000 PSI, barely a bump!

I will start on the 416s in the next day or so as time allows.

Michael

Boomy,
I have to tell you that double end switch thing was an incredible idea. We owe you a world of thanks for thinking of the finest bullet configuration ever developed. Like all of the BBW#13 nose bullets the ESP Raptors are absolutely the easiest bullets to tune you will ever shoot. You almost have to try to shoot bigger than 1" groups at 100 yards regardless of how you flip, turn, charge, or seat these bullets. I haven't been this excited about anything since my first POA. As Michael mentioned our 300WSM is very fussy and when we shot the first group at 100 yards and it was basically a ragged hole I was amazed. We saw the same accuracy with the 375 H&H but we thought it was just an accident since that rifle is a shooter. We are going to shot them in 2 other crappy shooting rifles this weekend to see how they like the Raptors. I'll bet they shoot good.
All of the participants did a great job throwing names around for these bullets and I certainly appreciate your input. I apologize for not participating but it is impossible for me to do so.
Thanks again to everyone and Boomy you need to call me.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

Now, if a means can be devised to turn them into Carnivores, we'd have all levels of performance available in one bullet.

I wouldn't hesitate to use a Raptor on lion. Simba would learn that it was time to run, not charge.

Why not order the Raptor with a Carnivore instead of the NonCon for any hunting on the North American continent? All we have are thin skinned game with the possible exception of the Bison. That might be a better general combination with the NonCon Raptor the special bullet, or African bullet.

Smitty
Thank you for making tjis a reality. I am just as excited as you are.
I'll give you a call. Send me a PM with your number.

quote:

Originally posted by smitty338:
Boomy,
I have to tell you that double end switch thing was an incredible idea. We owe you a world of thanks for thinking of the finest bullet configuration ever developed. Like all of the BBW#13 nose bullets the ESP Raptors are absolutely the easiest bullets to tune you will ever shoot. You almost have to try to shoot bigger than 1" groups at 100 yards regardless of how you flip, turn, charge, or seat these bullets. I haven't been this excited about anything since my first POA. As Michael mentioned our 300WSM is very fussy and when we shot the first group at 100 yards and it was basically a ragged hole I was amazed. We saw the same accuracy with the 375 H&H but we thought it was just an accident since that rifle is a shooter. We are going to shot them in 2 other crappy shooting rifles this weekend to see how they like the Raptors. I'll bet they shoot good.
All of the participants did a great job throwing names around for these bullets and I certainly appreciate your input. I apologize for not participating but it is impossible for me to do so.
Thanks again to everyone and Boomy you need to call me.

IBT

There won't be any Carnivore Raptors! Here is why, first all the Raptors will be small bore, 375 down. While some of the larger caliber might do well in a Carnivore configuration, the smaller bores will not have enough--ASS, left to do a proper job of penetration. Smaller blades, less penetration, and so forth. I don't see a Carnivore in the Raptor. We need that ass to keep moving forward. I think it should stay a NonCon.

In fact, while the Carnivores are doing an excellent job and exactly what I want them to do, they will not replace the basic BBW#13 NonCon. I think they are going to be very specific to the Mission in which they were developed for. Thin skin Dangerous Game, close range, this is where they live and thrive.

These are my thoughts on the matter anyway.


ESP Raptors! WOW, again! OK, we need to know some low velocity terminals for the Raptors, just the same as everything else! And especially the Raptors, as I see those as being capable of performing at long hunting ranges! Now long range to me is anything over 25 yards--50 is an incredible distance, and 100 yards to me is like some of you shooting a 1000! HEH, well ok, maybe that is a slightly over board! I see the Raptors very capable of working at 300-400 yards, long hunting range, and some very skilled individuals maybe more. 300-400 yards is a very long way in the field!

I have not run any BCs or external ballistics, so I don't know what a 308 130 BBW#13 ESP Raptor is doing at 100-200 or any range. I just dropped to a light load making a guess as a lower velocity, and this is what I came up with. It works down to this velocity very very good!



Someone can run some numbers and give me some low velocity at yardage, then I can try and match that, but if you are starting at 2800-3400 fps it is going to take a long time for it to get to 1780 fps I would think! Especially with the tip added. Soon as I get some tips I will test them again!

Michael

That is a great test Michael
Those should be good in the 30-30 at nominal 30-30 ranges. The 30-30 just got a lot more deadly!

quote:

Here is why, first all the Raptors will be small bore, 375 down.

Perhaps the first runs...but I'm already noodling Raptors in .423 and .500 calibers!

Dan's a busy man but I appreciated talking to him. A great guy who has made this and the other BBW bullets come to life as a product. It's amazing how well all of these bullets are doing and have performed.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Dan's a busy man but I appreciated talking to him. A great guy who has made this and the other BBW bullets come to life as a product. It's amazing how well all of these bullets are doing and have performed.

I most definitely agree. Dan has been a pure gentleman in our phone conversations as well as freely sharing his wealth of knowledge. Many kudos to whomever brought Dan, Michael, and Sam together…it has definitely been to our personal benefit!

191!
At this rate we will hit 200 pages by thanksgiving lol
His high BC bullets are just sexy pieces of art. Was saying to him how all the brass bullets are a great niche market and he is keen on getting the word out via marketing and advertising. Soon we won't be the priveleged few using these but the masses I hope. Michael has been the lone John the Baptist wild man in the desert preaching the about the rightness of these bullets and soon the people will repent of their stoggy ways lol. If there was a bullet heaven Michael would be in it unless the bullet Gods will punish him for his excessive abuse of the Grey Goose

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
IBT

We need that ass to keep moving forward I think it should stay a NonCon.

Michael

Need a big hammer to drive a long nail!!

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
That is a great test Michael
Those should be good in the 30-30 at nominal 30-30 ranges. The 30-30 just got a lot more deadly!

Boom, I concur with that assessment! I have some intentions of loading some 30/30s to test. It's been a long time since I did that! Love the levers, and have several 30s! But never shoot the 30s!

Jim, I happen to be the only man alive right now that has a major caliber Raptor--.500 caliber, the only one in existence! HEH........


191, when things are jumping they move pages eh? We can thank Corbin for bringing Dan to the table.

Seems you talked to Dan Boomy? Good.

Man I think I am in bullet heaven right now! Shelves full of bullets!

Seems we have a good bit of work ahead of us! I am happy now, have the 475 B&Ms sorted out, new barrels have arrived, so it should not be long before I have a new stainless 475 B&M to work with. Pressure Trace II is not working properly, giving crazy readings right now in every rifle I have tested, currently in tech support conversations with Jim Ristow. Whew! However, good news is that it seems the only issue I had with PT 1 was an electrical connection, I tired of messing with PT II yesterday, hooked up PT 1 and it is running normal and perfect. I have some common work to do today, sighting in and setting up a couple of rifles and things like that. I may be able to get some 416 Carnivores tested, but I think I am out of ready medium? May have to build a new box of medium and test later in the week? Lot's of things to do, and little time to do them in!

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by Esskay:

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
IBT

We need that ass to keep moving forward I think it should stay a NonCon.

Michael

Need a big hammer to drive a long nail!!

Esskay, Correct, big hammer!

The standard NonCon we have produced and are working with, can't be replaced with nothing else. Regardless of thick or thin, it's still the hammer, something like the Carnivore is more limited and mission oriented, where the standard NonCon is do everything in a pinch, and do it well, regardless of thick or thin! I really like the Carnivore, and it is going to do exactly what I wanted it to do, however I don't think it's the do everything bullet that the NonCon is. It's an enhancement for a specific mission.

Right now, the ESP Raptor is for sure a DO EVERYTHING AND THEN SOME MORE bullet! In fact, being a bullet nut, I have never even heard of anything like the Raptor, and I can bet nothing has ever come close to it. I admit, I was a bit skeptical in the beginning, but after shooting them, testing both ends of them, and even shooting the exact same bullet twice for two tests with one, and hearing of the accuracy Dan is getting, I am on board all the way now. Replace the BBW#13 SOlid and NonCon big bores we have now? NO, NO WAY. Enhance the big bores later on with those as additional--Absolutely without doubt. But you see, for the ESP Raptor to do everything, it must be light for caliber, and while we know for a fact that we can get by with much less SD than in the old days, I am not willing to give up our excellent BBW#13s that we have currently. I am willing to make addtions with the Raptor in the big bores however and think they will be incredible there as well for general purpose use, and especially for lighter work, they are the answer.

For mediums and small bores, they are the kick ass ticket and will enhance those rat rifles beyond anything they have ever experienced.

That's my thoughts on the issues at hand!

M

Let me state my opinion in a different way.

IMO, the ESP Raptor in the medium and small bores would do better with a Carnivore and solid combination for North American game hunting than the present NonCon and solid combination. The Carnivore is designed for thin skinned game INCLUDING but not limited to DG such as the big cats and bears. The North American hunter will not face any thick skinned animals with the possible exception of the Bison (thick skinned?). The Carnivore will have more than ample hammer and penetration for anything found in North America and will have better destruction capabilities than the NonCon once penetration is achieved. The Carnivore will cause greater destruction on small animals such as varmints than the NonCon. You don't need a NonCon's penetration in North America but the Carnivore's destruction capability maybe useful.

Which brings to question the need for a solid in North American hunting at all when you have the NonCon and Carnivore available.

IMO it could be argued that the solid and NonCon combination in the big bores (not yet available) is the African combination with the Carnivore as a speciality African bullet. But that's another discussion.

quote:

and I can bet nothing has ever come close to it.

Well, thirty-some years ago I used to load .277" 130 Sierra BT backwards after shaving off the lead spitzer tip. The boattail looked a bit like a BBW#13. But, of course, the front end around was just a cup+core splatter bullet. In that sense, yes, nothing like the Raptor. But using the 130 grain "solid" in a 270 does raise the next question, "whatever for?"

I used such a 'crazy solid' on little oribi, just to see if it could be done. It worked fine. Though other hunters said that a 'real solid' would have a roundnose. We just didn't know. My son, then 11, picked up that 270 as 'his gun' and it was used effectively on pretty much all the antelope. The 'flatnose reverse solid' was available as a backup second shot, rump to stern, but I don't believe that he ever used it. It was also short in the magazine. If a second shot presented itself, it was almost always over 200 yards, standing, and needing a second NP or other softnose. This would all apply equally to North America. Theoretically, a solid is a preferred secondshot if running straightaway. but practically, most second shots are best with softnoses. So it's a toss-up. The solid would be great, but in most western NA hunting the softnose will be more useful. Perhaps those hunting from stands and 'still hunting' a forest would be best served by the solid? Take that second shot, and don't worry if it goes through a 3" little tree.

Michael's comment that the Carnivore did not evenly shear in the star pattern associated with the NonCons, and that the Carnivore blades stay closer to the center of the wound channel, may be the reason that the NonCon is the bullet needed for much of our hunting...North America as well as Africa. (Whew, that's one hell of a long sentence.)

I would hazard a guess that most of the thin-skinned game shot in North American need the faster shear of the NonCons (2-4" depth in testing media) vs the Carnivore (4-6" depth in testing media). Deer, antelope, elk are our primary species of hunting here, with bear being probably the toughest of the hides.

What say the rest of you?

An observation and an opinion.

The Carnivore has a very deep hollow point cavity. This cavity is not filling with media on impact. This leaves a void that the bullet is collapsing into.
Fill the bullet with wax and retest. The wax will give an even hydraulic effect that will promote an even shearing of the blades.

Over half a century on this planet and I still cant spell...lol
John

Gentlemen - I am no bullet/ammo/load expert, not even close. But, I just thought I would add my opinion in regards to the CEB's, as I just returned from Zimbabwe, where I used them exclusively in my new .577 double.

Normally, I am a Barnes fan, but I needed some quick ammo, and Sam Rose was kind enough to load 40 rounds for me in a hurry. He sent me 20 rounds of CEB NON-CON's, and 20 rounds of CEB solids. First off, I was impressed with the accuracy of the CEB's in my .577, at least at the range, prior to the hunt. I have no doubt they continued their good accuracy, any inconsistent shooting was no doubt me, and not the bullet/gun combo.

When put in the right place, the bullets were extremely effective. Without question, the .577/CEB combo saved the PH's ass, as the buffalo was a mere 5 yards from him, before I could clearly see him/shoot effectively. The CEB/NON-CON slammed through the top of the buffalo's boss, knocking a half dollar size hole right through the top of his skull. I assure you, he didn't like that at all.

Secondly, they were excellent on the elephant at 35 - 45 yards. Performing great, and penetrating deep, regardless of where I put the shots. The 750 gr solid broke the elephant's right shoulder, and dropped him on the spot.

I will definitely continue to use the CEB's in my .577, and will start experimenting with them for my favorite .375 Ultra Mag as well. Michael has been working on the new .475 B&M I have bought from him, and I'm sure we will be using nothing but the CEB's in it as well.

Awesome report!
Are there any pics you can post?

5 Yards
I would have been burying my underwear right there.
Damn, great job.

Cheers, John

Very nice report Aaron...I'm sure you made a "believer" out of your PH as well as a friend for life with that shot!