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Jim If you closed your eyes and only used mind control and imagined where the target is, you are a better shot than Lou! He is bad about snatching in the field. I can sit him down at the bench and he does fine, put him in front of critters and it's snatch a foot here, snatch a couple feet there! Hit the moose between the eyes at 314 yds! LUCK LUCK LUCK! No, the rifles will no doubt shoot, and all the solid copper and brass bullets are incredibly accurate. Aaron Carter shot a deer at 240 yds with a 50 Super Short last year. He was using that 380 copper you are talking about. Lou had 350 brass HPs at 2450 fps. Very good bullet, but not much study of terminal ballistics with what he did, and animal reactions to taking it! Probably about the same bullet that you have, only in brass. I think it has a slightly different profile than those 380 coppers. Our boy at CEB is behind right now. Still waiting on several things, #13 prototypes, your spitzer bullet, price on the 12 bores for Peter, and a few other things. But I did put priority on Sams 474 and .510 caliber #13 profiles and Sam should have had them today? Will get our boy to work this week and clear some of these things out. Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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I have a very nice fellow that I have been in contact with a few times over the last few years. Super nice guy from Utah, a wonderful state with lot's of good folks! I can't recall how he found me, but was asking advice about buying a Winchester M70 458 Winchester, of course I told him to get it, he would not be disappointed. And he has been very happy with it. Back in April he contacted me and was leaving in August for a buffalo hunt in Zim. He had 450 TSX and 450 Barnes Banded hitting the same POI at 50. He knew that I had always used the 450 Swift and was wondering if he should go to the Swift or stay with the TSX. He thought maybe since the TSX was a little longer he might get a bit more velocity from the Swift. He told me he was getting 2220 fps or so with the TSX, same with the Banded solid. I advised that he was just fine with the TSX and barnes banded at that velocity and to not worry about changing bullets. I use the Swift a lot because the 450 TSX is a little long for the 458 B&M capacity, that is all, not because of performance. I figure he had plenty of velocity at 2200 fps or 2220 fps and he would be in dandy shape with that. Well in his report today he had extremely good success, recovered two excellent bullets and is completely satisfied with the 458 Winchester and the TSX. He had shot buffalo before with 375 HH, and his words are "The difference in performance was compelling to say the least" "The 458 being far superior based on animal reactions to taking the hit" Sorry 375 guys, I agree. Not saying a 375 wont' do the job, just that a 458 will do it better. But, one can increase effectiveness of the mediums greatly with a proper choice of bullets. All cartridges can be enhanced to greatness by choosing the right bullet! My man chose wisely with a Winchester M70 and 458 Winchester and did very well with the 450 TSX!   Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Michael, No bullets today! Maybe tomorrow! Sam | |||
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You are preaching to the chior.. A-Men Bullets are the most important choice for sure and for certain _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Can one of the knowledgable folks here answer a puzzling question for me? Why do commercial bullets work so well in Butch Searcy's 470 NE double rifles. Butch uses PacNor barrels which have a bore of .475. The commercial bullets he uses are .474 diameter. Also, with the bullets being undersized by 1 thou, why dont the hot gasses blow by and cut the barrel. And, wouldn't it be desirable to buy bullets taht are .475. North Fork indicatyed that they make both .474 and .475 diameter bullets and the purchaser only needs to ask if he wishes to get the .475 ones. Bob Nisbet DRSS & 348 Lever Winchester Lover Temporarily Displaced Texan If there's no food on your plate when dinner is done, you didn't get enough to eat. | |||
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This comparison of 416 with 458 and 500 is excellent, but the other direction needs to be remembered. You had some excellent solids in 338 and 366. (and a 6.5mm/264, if I remember). So absolute size is not an absolute. Me thinks that the anomalies you mention with the 416 are anomalies that need investigation in order to find out what is happening, exactly. Of course, I'm happy with 350-370 grain solids in 416, or even 450 lead core if they were flat. But I'd still like to know what is causing the 'stability dip' on the trajectory from medium calibre to big bore as it crosses the 416 threshhold. (PS: hopefully this is not off thread. I've been gone a few days and am working thru the old postings.) +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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Bob I can't tell you much about .474, or Butch Searcy rifles. Maybe someone here more knowledgeable than I can catch up with you on this. As for my 475 B&Ms I will be going with .474 caliber and 1:10 twists, I am not sure if those are PacNor or not? Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Tanzan Thanks! I am thinking on this one still, and considering the smaller bores we have worked with here too. No, I did not forget that Barnes Banded in 338, the 250 gr bullet. It's extreme! Very excellent. Did not forget the lousy barnes banded 9.3s either! About the best 9.3 we have tested, that I trust, is the 286 North Fork. It did very well. The new 260 CEBs that I am working with are doing very well also, but they loose stability right in the last couple of inches, which is not all that big a deal, a lot of them will do that. As time moves on, we will be looking at a lot of different things, this one too. Sam has some really nice looking BBW #13 profiles done for us in 416 caliber to investigate that nose profile. See if we can increase our stability with that profile and meplat size, in 416. No, you are on thread all the way, if it's got to do with a bullet, as far as I am concerned it's on the spot! Me, I am with you, I am happy with the 350 and 370 Solids myself. Like I said, that bit of off, really won't show up in the field, at least not that you would know about it! And of course one must consider that there can be inconsistency in the test medium at times too! I am not perfect by any stretch, and neither is all test mediums! Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Michael, The .474 and .510 prototypes are here!!! Sam | |||
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Well, while we are talking double rifle bullets, Sam just received the new BBW #13s from CEB. These are the copper prototypes Sam ordered for testing, before going into production and everyday use with them. I tell you Sam, fill us in on the specs, if they are close or the same as what you had, but they sure do look mighty good to me. The nose looks great!     I know they are here, I got the email and the photos, as you can see! HEH Damn, if that don't do it, nothing will! They look great to me! Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Michael, Just to let you know the bull elephant is a go and I plan on using my 577 with a BBW#13 on him. Sam | |||
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Well by god there is no better .584 caliber solid on the planet than the BBW #13 so you will be in dandy shape! I think you ought to try and line up two or three of the buggers for side brain shot and knock out a few with 1 of those BBW #13s! It will do it you know! Excellent, just excellent. I am hoping the #13 prototypes are soon to be in my hands with the two .500s I ordered up, 500 gr brass and a 425 copper. 500 Brass for the 50 B&M And 500 MDM, and the 425 copper for the 50 B&M AK, and of course with multi bands it will also work in the 50 Super Short and the other 50s as well. I suspect CEB will do as good a job on those prototypes as they did on these. This all goes well we take it to other calibers. I have to get those #13 416s tested this week! I have them lined up to get loaded, just have not got to them yet. M http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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I suppose DGSC X01 is our #13 designation too! HEH, I told him BBW #13! M http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Michael, Yeah I would like the BBW#13 to be on the final box. Hey if you will pay for the second and third elephant I'll be glad to do a side brain shot. Maybe a Texas brain shot on a single. HA Sam | |||
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I have surely learned to love the BBW #13 nose profile!!! 26-degree nose cone truncated to make FN meplat diameters no bigger than 68%, no smaller than 67%, "stamped," with edge radius of what? 0.04" radius? Just to take the sharp off the edge? | |||
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Michael, I measured the meplats on these bullets and the .510's are running around 66% and the .474's are 69%. Both should work fine. Sam | |||
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RIP Those #13s are growing on me too. They really seem to be something special! I tested some Sam had sent today in 416, 458, and 50 Super Short. Starting with 416 B&M    Couple of things, not sure what is going on with my printer, crappy ink I suppose! Now for the life of me I can't find, or know what could have damaged the edge of the meplat like that? Mystery? From time to time they will hit a staple in those catalogs/magazines, and it always leaves a staple mark in them, funny. But this bullet hit something that did not agree with it at all, and for the life of me I don't know what? Nothing in this mix? Depth of penetration of these is a lot for a 350 gr 416. It's common for the Barnes 350 Banded to go to 53-55 inches. But none have ever gone as deep as the #13s. Never heard of a 350 going 65 inches, not in this medium. #2 was damaged of course and I attribute it being off course slightly by that. There again, even then, 1 inch off at 61 inches in this test medium is not an issue at all. M http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Had a strange thing happen with the 458 450 #13s today. I had replaced the front medium with medium from box #2. So I had a gap of about 2 feet between the last test medium in box #1 and test medium in #2. Just air. #1 exited the box, was 100% dead straight line at exit, witness cards at 60 and 10 inches are perfect line together, and just vanished into thin air? Did not touch medium in box #2, was just gone? It's out there somewhere, but I can't find it! #2 drove straight thru Box #1, thru the 2 ft gap, into the medium a couple of inches in box #2. #1---??????? I figure it must have lost some stability on exit, and went up possibly into the berm, but that is a narrow trail to follow? I could not see where it had bounced off anything anywhere.   Well, regardless, I tracked it dead straight to exit, what happened from there who knows. #2 stayed dead straight to 64 inches. Most of the 450 gr 458s at this velocity go 56-58 inches in this test medium. I don't recall ever having one break 60 inches. M http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Last but not least, Sam had made a little 350 gr .500 caliber #13, and I just had to see it work.   I don't know, this is a cute little bugger! But the 405 gr #13 is the real hammer for the 50 B&M Super Short. It did very well for a 350 .500 caliber bullet! Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Remember last week I think, I told you guys about Frank, with Big Horn Armory, the guys that are going to build the 500 S&W on the little lever guns! He is wanting to do a 50 B&M Alaskan on his personal M71, so we were chatting, and he had Hornady make a special run of 400 gr Hornady Interlocks for their rifles. He just up and sent me a 100 of them to test, shoot and play with. I did test the other day in the 50 B&M Super Short, Frank says they are running it at 2000 fps in the lever guns. Good bullet, jacket/core held together, performs about like the 500 gr Hornady at these velocities.   Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Michael, Those #13's keep going strong. Did you have to point up the Hornaday 400 gr to get it to feed in the Model 70? Sam | |||
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Ah yes…ya just have to love those BBW #13!!! So what do we have on the #13’s so far: .416 caliber = .289 SD 350gr BBW Br #13 = 61”-65” .458 caliber = .306 SD 450gr BBW Br #13 = 62”-64” .474 caliber = .302 SD 500gr CEB X01 Cp (BBW #13) = ??? .500 caliber = .200 SD 350gr BBW Br #13 = 42”-46” .500 caliber = .279 SD 488gr JDJ Br #13 = 63” .500 caliber = .289 SD 506gr BBW Br #13 = 66” .500 caliber = .309 SD 540gr BBW Br #13 = 71” .510 caliber = .302 SD 550gr BBW Br #13 = ??? .510 caliber = .302 SD 570gr CEB X01 Cp (BBW #13) = ??? .585 caliber = .324 SD 725gr BBW Br #13 runs 70”-71” Sam you’ve certainly identified the “sweet point” for nose profile. Very well done indeed!!! Jim  "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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Jim, I can't take much credit for these bullets. Michael did all the work and figured out what should work the best. I just took his information and turned what I thought he was talking about. I just helped a little is the process. Cheers to Michael for doing everything that he has done at his own expense and time. Sam | |||
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I don't even know why in the hell I record data, and keep up with it? Why should I, Jim has everything down pat, 110%! No, I go and enter this data on at least 2 separate sheets, one for solids of whichever caliber, then in the caliber terminals that I keep data on all bullets, including solids. Then, new bullets go in the load data too!, so on many of these tests, I enter data into 3 separate data sheets, and then make the labels, and photos to go with, then bag the things and put them away for further reference down the road! I need more room! Sam The hell you say! All I did was give you a sample and said make some of these and we will test them! The rest is yours! I am just the monkey  on the paper, then digging thru it!HEH M http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Michael, Thats BS!!!I thought a Woodleigh RN was great before I met you! You have shown me the light. You were talking about that BBW405 when you posted the 350 gr BBW#13 data. The 405 was a BBW not a #13. I guess I need to make a BBW#13 at 405 gr to see what it will do. Sam | |||
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So the referenced 405 was a BBW Sam nose profile rather than a BBW #13 nose profile? Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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This is the one I was talking about. Sam | |||
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how much for 200 of these, in ,510? opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Sam, Yes that’s the bullet/nose profile that I was referring to as the BBW Sam nose profile…which you first fully introduced with this 493gr .500 bullet:  Anyway it’s such a viable bullet/nose shape profile that I believe that it should be referred to as something more than the BBW nose profile so that it can be easily distinguished from your many other designs as has been done with the 2 Band, 3 Band, HB, #13 etc. Anyway that’s my 2₵ on the subject. Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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I think we can figure this one out. From bullet #2 we can surmise that bullet #1 was near the end of its journey at a 62 inch exit. We can assume very low velocity. If it did not enter box two, then it either dropped in the gap below box 2 and rolled or skidded on under a board or between an item somewhere on the floor, or just possibly it bounced off of box 2, dropped and rolled in a more surprising direction. Just last week a bullet rolled off the edge of a flat top of a three-foot freezer. We looked all around, under some stuff and even under the freezer. It was gone and had just 'disappeared'. I told my son that it must be inside the back workings. He scoffed, there was only a little hole a few inches above the floor for it to jump through. He got a flashlight, looked through the hole and there it lay. It had somehow bounced off of the heat diffusion grill and into the freezer back. Murphy. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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Yes, I am sorry, little lapse in memory, but that is correct, not a #13, but a BBW Profile. Which does seem to be excellent also. I was thinking about sending some of these samples along to CEB and getting some bullets done in that nose profile, but did not want to get too many things going at once and really was going to wait until all points were settled with the #13s in different calibers, and of course #13s for the doubles. We already have 4-5 different things going on in the prototype stage with CEB now, so don't want to get things confused. M http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Tanzan You are correct in my opinion. The 458 was at the very end of it's penetration, slowed down, exited slightly unstable and just went somewhere else at that point. After at least 100% straight penetration to the 60 inch witness card--that I can confirm 100% reliable--then instability at the end of penetration is really a moot point, as most all the bullets will exhibit that from time to time, regardless of nose profile, meplat, anything else. The witness cards are extremely valuable to be able to track the path so precisely. FYI, sometimes when placing the cards it is very difficult to get them 100% the same all the way through 60 inches. They can get 1/4-1/2 inch off sometimes when compressing, or placing medium in and so forth. And you can see where a card can get off a bit from time to time, and on the next card it lines up again. The important issue is to make damn sure the 10 inch and 20 inch card are right, because I compare to the 1st 10 inch card for all the others. But they are fantastic to be able to track the exact path, and have a permanent record of that path to refer back too. Points to remember; Instability at the end of penetration is moot point and has nothing to do with whether the bullet is good or not. In this medium being an inch or so off course over a 60 inch path is a moot point also, one that will not occur in the field, and if it did, over a 60 inch path you would not be able to detect it anyway. I don't get too excited really unless something gets to running off course at 40 inches and is a few inches off at 50-60 inches. If you see something that "lost stability" end of penetration, or 1" off course at 60 inches, you need not pay much attention to that. Or draw any real conclusions from that. I have to record exacts to keep up with everything. Wow, page 97. I never thought about it much, but this thread started last November, it's not 1 year old yet, and if we continue, 100 pages is going to be broken before it's a year old. I don't know, probably 100 pages of BS in some folks minds for sure. I can't speak for most folks, but I have been on a grand learning experience, in something I have a passion for, terminal performance, I just happen to believe for some odd reason, that the bullet is very important to the overall outcome of a good experience in the field! I just happen to believe that a great deal of UGLY experiences in the field have been the poor choice of hunters using the wrong type bullet for a particular mission, and not having enough knowledge about the bullet they choose before hand, for that said mission. I hope we have answered some of these questions together, so that we can all make better choices and have better experiences when we go to the field. Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Hey Michael, I'm not worried about the stability. Nor was a question raised. I just wanted you to find the pesky little bullet. They look nice in the pictures. I'm sure its around your lab somewhere. The note was to tidy up loose strings. Bullets don't evaporate. (... unless they are lead cores, shot at at over 4000fps with very thin little 'varmint jackets', in a very fast twist. I've heard that such bullets may go 'poof' and self-explode. Never shot such a load myself.) +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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Tanzan Oh yes, I know that you know what the scoop is on the end of penetration, since it was brought up, I wanted to address that for other folks that are lurking, not addressed directly to you, just in general terms, and as you say, tidy up any loose strings or concerns before they are an issue with someone is all. Talk about evaporating bullets, I have seen that myself for real. Long time ago, some company came out with some very light, very fast 223s. Can't remember the details, but it seems that well above 4000 fps in a standard barrel. So I shot some at 50 yds, no bullet holes and you could see the vapor trail as they burned completely before entry! Got up to 25 yds, no holes and vapor trails. Finally I think I was 10 yds or so before I started getting shrapnel on the paper. But I have to admit, it was fun watching the vapor trails! Oh I will find that bullet, just a matter of when and exactly where? M http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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100 pages of cutting through the BS! Fun too! This is like the "Myth Busters" of bullets! Think of all the things born here and on the B&M thread!!! Just look at the BBW 13! Figuring out optimal meplat size, edge and nose profile for maximizing bullet penetration so weight can be reduced if desired not to mention stability and twist issues. More research needed on some issues still like hollow bases ect. I read it for the articles but the centerfold pics are great too  577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Michael, Yep…97 pages of very informative material and still growing… Who’d have thought that we’re approaching not only the point of identifying the nose shape, the meplat percentage, and the meplat edge shape required to stabilize DG bullets for maximum within mass straight line penetration but also the specific tweaks required to deliver the same performance from the traditional slow twist rate barrels that we’ve been plagued with over the years. And hopefully by now everyone understands that 1:12” and faster twist rate are just as accurate at DG distances through 300yds as are the traditional slow twist rate barrel plus when fired at Nitro Express velocities they will typically stabilize (within mass straight line penetration) the box store bullets that are typically unstable when fired from the traditional 1:14” to 1:20” twist rate barrels. I hope I stated this so that it’s easily understood. I have a feeling this fall will be busy as many of these small tweaks are finalized and bullets will become available that approach/reach Sam’s .585 725gr BBW #13 bullets 71” of within mass straight line stability. Plus we should have the .500 NonCon Spitzer to play with!!!!  Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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'I get by with a little help from my friends'-- I need some help getting some copper solvent in Tanzania. Back in the US I have plenty of Barnes' product and like it very much. However, airplanes and the TSA folk have ammonia-based liquids on a 'no-no' list. And while someone might be able to justify putting three-ounces in a suitcase, it may also be flat illegal (I don't know the exact law--don't quote me either way). So how does one concoct some pungent copper cleaner home-brew out of grocery goods or hardware goods? Tanganyika Arms only carries a powder solvent with no ammonia. My rifles stay in Tanzania and can't go to the US for a scrub down. Any help would be appreciated. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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I've not tried it but this KG 12 product has no ammonia so you should be able to import it to Tanzania: http://76.12.75.1/merchant2/me...612&Category_Code=KG Their tests are certainly impressive compared to the other available products: http://www.cleenboreusa.com/kg/kg-12testresults.asp Good luck! Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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http://www.gsgroup.co.za/09access.html Try M98 Bore Cleaner from the above. "The fastest bore cleaner for removing copper and nitro fouling on this planet. Economical to use. M98 does not contain ammonia and will not react with steel. If you use M98 you do not need any other cleaner or solvent. M98 will simplify your cleaning tasks tremendously. Use it as directed and, after cleaning, the first shot will also be in the group. No more expensive fouling shots to get a group going. Clean your "clean" firearms with M98 and see what the other cleaners left behind. You won't believe how good this product is until you have tried it. " | |||
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Good Morning People! I trust all are having a great weekend thus far? Excellent! Well, as I stated somewhere yesterday, Sam and I have been to work again. Yesterday we conducted several tests consisting of the new BBW #13s, by CEB in copper for the "Double Rifle Crowd", and with nothing less than of course, double rifles. We did throw on 510 Wells test in with the 570 BBW #13 to see what would happen, but other than that, it was a double day for you guys out there with the doubles, that are lurking about! Hopefully you are out there anyway, don't be scared to put in your two cents worth, your opinions are valued here! Unlike other places sometimes! Now, to start things off, Sam had some samples made or prototypes by CEB of his now famous BBW #13, all in copper. These are two band versions to reduce bearing surface and we believe to reduce issues with shooting mono solids in double rifles. Especially "Modern" doubles. To start things off, we will look at a 470 Nitro, 500 gr BBW #13 Copper by CEB. By the way, the prototypes are EXTREMELY expensive to do, these are not to actually test the nose profile or the design, that has been pretty well established as far as I care, it's more to test CEB and make sure they get it right! FYI.   Please, any questions related to doubles, direct to Sam, he is my "double Expert". Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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