Hi all. Good to see you safe back Michael.
I have not been on the AR for the last two weeks. My worst nightmare has come true. Two weeks ago - 10. th of July - I was driving a big lawn mover - those mini tractors where you sit on the top. Cutting grass on a farm belonging to some of my wifes family. Was almost finished and then suddenly I was hit in my right eye by a stone. Dont ask how it got to me - I just dont know. Immediate pain and blurred vision and fluid running from the eye. I went straight to hospital and I was taken care of right away. I had a perforated cornea, quite centrally in the eye. But no lens damage and no deeper damage. Was operated late that Sunday night. Now sutures have to stay inn for 12 weeks. Vision still very blurred. The eyedoc told me that I should not expect better vision before sutures were removed. And he could not tell me about prognosis. My eye might get ok again, but a large chance of reduced vision on that eye. He would not say that I will never be able to use that eye again for shooting, but he would definately not confirm it either...

Many thoughts are running through your head when you get a message like that. Especially when hunting and shooting is your half life..
I am a bit depressed these days I must admit that.. Can do nothing but wait and hope the best..

All the best to you all

Ulrik

Ulrik,

Glad you are doing OK and sorry to hear about your accident. Safety Glasses!. I learned this lesson the hard way also. Got solder flux in my eye years ago and the pain was horrible. Any damage to the eye is bad. Hope you get your full vision back soon.

Sam

Ulrik

Oh man, that is terrible news, but we are all glad that you are with us and I am very sure it COULD have been worse! Cutting grass of all things too! I hate cutting grass, have not cut grass since I was in my teens. I swore at one time to never cut grass again, that was over 30 yrs ago, and I have been faithful to my oath! Here is just another good reason not to do so! I will spray it, kill hell out of it, But I ain't cutting it!

Well, we can't have such as this. I say that you are going to recover and do so just fine. I won't allow your vision to be effected, so be it! If your vision is reduced a bit, well that might put you even with me currently, so all is not lost by any means. Have faith, I think you will be fine! Give that thing time to heal proper!

I understand about being depressed, but like you say, can't do anything about it except wait and See! Pun Intended! Since you can't do anything about it, think the best and start thinking about bullets, loads and rifles! That's what I do! Think about getting to work on the next project and I think you have one going on right now anyway! A 500 AR as I recall! Make a plan and go to work on it! The rest will fall in place!

Best wishes from all of us here! Come on over I will put some magic voodoo crap on that eye or something! LOL....... We will sort it out!

Michael

Ulrik,
Hang in there. You are going to get better.
A rock in the cornea is a lot better than some lye or bluing salts.
Yes, safety glasses.
Must have been a freak ricochet of a rock off another hard object that hit you?
I am not competent in eye surgery, trickier than brain surgery, but I'll bet your ophthalmologist is doing the best he can.
Pain could be excruciating initially. Anesthetic/analgesic short term and keeping the eye well lubricated and moisturized.
Infection to be avoided. Antibiotics.
Steroids to reduce scarring at some point?
I always defer to ophthalmologists on steroid drops in the eye.
Laser surgery/Lasik can do wonders to correct refractive error if there is any distortion of the cornea after healing is complete.
Computer mapping and guidance on that cornea "fixing" is amazing nowadays.
Cornea transplant would be the last resort.

Here's hoping you get 20/20 central vision back in that eye soon, and that your pain and anguish is minimized until you do.

Best,
Ron

Hi Michael and all,
Just got back from Zimbabwe after a successful hunt with Daryl and his .50 B&M that performed like it is supposed to.
Daryl got his buffalo with the 470grain SSK hollow point backed up with the 515gr SSK solid. The first shot was a frontal shot that went into the chest, broke the right shoulder and went through the lungs. The buffalo went face own and spun around 180 degrees and Daryl's second shot went into the right hind quarter, passed through the body and the lungs and exited at the base of the neck. The buffalo collapsed immediately and was dead on the spot.
Hippo was standing broadside and was also shot with a 470grain SSK hollow point backed up with the 515gr SSK solid. Although Daryl was loaded with all solids, I asked him to use the hollow point because of another hippo standing right behind the bull. The first shot hit the shoulder, passed through the top of the heart and smashed the ribs on the opposite side of the body, stopping under the skin. The hippo ran towards the water and Daryl shot him in the right hind quarter and the hippo collapsed in the shallow water. The solid was not recovered but may have been somewhere in the stomach amid the large quantity of digesting grass.
I think that the 50 B&M proved once again that it is an excellent big game calibre.
Regards Andrew

Ulrik...sorry to hear about your eye...take care of yourself.

Andrew...great hunting report!

Ulrik,
My strongest wishes for all to be well. Have had both my eyes hurt at different times, but regained vision. Keep that thought in mind and keep us informed.

Michael-

I just made changes to import 40 rather than 20 rounds of .458Lott for the Zim September hunt. Had to change the SAPS too, of course. That will allow for the NonCon testing we hope to do for you on PG after we put our Eles in the dirt. Carl is actively loading us up and we are trying loads before settling on what we will shoot.

Please get caught up on that distracting, income generating work, so that we may talk about the important stuff, ballistics. Cheers!

oh hell, Ulrik
best wishes

quote:

Originally posted by andrew500:
Hi Michael and all,
Just got back from Zimbabwe after a successful hunt with Daryl and his .50 B&M that performed like it is supposed to.
Daryl got his buffalo with the 470grain SSK hollow point backed up with the 515gr SSK solid. The first shot was a frontal shot that went into the chest, broke the right shoulder and went through the lungs. The buffalo went face own and spun around 180 degrees and Daryl's second shot went into the right hind quarter, passed through the body and the lungs and exited at the base of the neck. The buffalo collapsed immediately and was dead on the spot.
Hippo was standing broadside and was also shot with a 470grain SSK hollow point backed up with the 515gr SSK solid. Although Daryl was loaded with all solids, I asked him to use the hollow point because of another hippo standing right behind the bull. The first shot hit the shoulder, passed through the top of the heart and smashed the ribs on the opposite side of the body, stopping under the skin. The hippo ran towards the water and Daryl shot him in the right hind quarter and the hippo collapsed in the shallow water. The solid was not recovered but may have been somewhere in the stomach amid the large quantity of digesting grass.
I think that the 50 B&M proved once again that it is an excellent big game calibre.
Regards Andrew

Andrew

That is EXCELLENT NEWS!!!!!! I am very pleased that all went well up there, and the bullets performed as they have in the past. That 515 solid is the same bullet you and I used on those elephants with Dudley in 2007! So yes, it's an excellent bullet. And for ALL, the buffalo is a good reason to have a backup solid, as you see it needed to go from rear to front and put that buff down for good! Yes, the first shot would have done fine--But they did not know that at that moment--Shoot, shoot again, and then some more! But you need the right bullet for the job too! And Daryl had it!

And of course the choice of not using a solid saved the day on the hippo, an excellent argument for my buddy 465HH and his ideas on some things.

I suppose you guys are now in RSA and getting ready to hammer some plains game, good luck and keep us posted please!



Lionhunter

I am working on it believe me, I hope to be shooting this week at some point! I have a very active test schedule coming up, including a lot of pressure traces. Being followed closely by some terminals at optimum velocity and pressures.

So I am getting there. Do keep up the work with the 480s in the 458 Lott. Tell Carl not to worry about the 480 being long, just cram it in, it will be fine! LOL..... I promise! No worries!


Ulrik

Listen to everything RIP says! He and CCMdoc will give some good advice, and get over this soon! We need you back on the line and doing some shooting on your side of the pond, so get well quick!

Catch you guys in the morning
Michael

Sam and Mike, and a bunch of other chaps that visit me from time to time, good news for you is that I had enough of this heat, I just called my guy to come install an air and heat unit on the range this morning! Not cheap, but I hate sweating and sick of it! It will be about a week 1/2 to two weeks and it will be much cooler on the range from now on!

Enough is enough! It's 95 to 100 degrees here outside, humidity to match. On the range I can keep it 85-88 degrees, but if you start terminal and pressure traces down at the 25 yd bench, it starts to wear on you! Can't work in such conditions as that!

Michael

quote:

Daryl got his buffalo with the 470grain SSK hollow point backed up with the 515gr SSK solid. The first shot was a frontal shot that went into the chest, broke the right shoulder and went through the lungs. The buffalo went face own and spun around 180 degrees and Daryl's second shot went into the right hind quarter, passed through the body and the lungs and exited at the base of the neck. The buffalo collapsed immediately and was dead on the spot.

I keep hearing that there is no need for solids on buffalo anymore! I don't buy that, and never have. Here is a prime example of what a good solid will do for you. While the first shot was indeed fatal, no doubt. How do you know that in the field? How do you know for 100% sure it was a 100% fatal shot? You don't know this, ever, regardless. Things happen! So, one always follows up all shots if possible. I would trust no conventional soft to go from the right hind quarter of a buffalo to get to the vitals. I think a BBW#13 NonCon MIGHT get there most of the time, I think a North Fork CPS MIGHT get there most of the time, But I KNOW that a proper Solid like the BBW#13 and North Fork FPS WILL GET THERE ALL THE TIME! BS--You need those solids! End of Story!

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Sam and Mike, and a bunch of other chaps that visit me from time to time, good news for you is that I had enough of this heat, I just called my guy to come install an air and heat unit on the range this morning! Not cheap, but I hate sweating and sick of it! It will be about a week 1/2 to two weeks and it will be much cooler on the range from now on!

Enough is enough! It's 95 to 100 degrees here outside, humidity to match. On the range I can keep it 85-88 degrees, but if you start terminal and pressure traces down at the 25 yd bench, it starts to wear on you! Can't work in such conditions as that!

Michael

Michael,

Great I'm glad we finally talked you into to it. I think everyone here on AR should donate so Michael doesn't have to sweat anymore. We don't want him to use bullet testing money!

Sam

Ulrik,

Terrible news but my prayers and best wishes for a full recovery.


Michael,

With all of the hunting reports rolling in, have there been any failures of CEB Non-Cons or #13 Solids to perform as intended?

I haven't been able to keep up with all of the reports and threads as we have been so incredibly busy, but I know there was again the discussion of "too much penetration" elsewhere. My own opinion is that one should choose the tool that is best for the job at hand. We now have more choices of better tools than ever before. The old tools work as well as they ever have; the new tools simply work better.

Explain the "Conivore" bullet

CCMDoc

quote:

With all of the hunting reports rolling in, have there been any failures of CEB Non-Cons or #13 Solids to perform as intended?

I know of zero issues zero failures. Of the many I have fired there have been none, Sam, None, My buddy Lou, none, other types of NonCons by Lehigh, or North Fork CPS, or other solids as mentioned by Andrew, no failures of any sort, all performed exactly as intended, and tested before hand.

quote:

there was again the discussion of "too much penetration" elsewhere

That's on the Dave Super Bullet thread, and nothing more than 465HH and I in that age old discussion, just merely two good opinions bumping heads as sometimes the Big H and I do, no hard feelings on either side however! LOL....... 465HH is still one of my heroes, only chap I know that can shoot two elephants, kill them both with one shot! He's da Man! LOL


JWP

Sorry I see you called and I just have not had time for phones this morning. It's been crazy here again.......

quote:

Explain the "Conivore" bullet

BBW#13 Carnivore!

It's the double deep cavity brass bullet that I had done some months ago in .500 caliber. It's what I called the "Lion Bullet", designed to go all to hell inside a thin skinned critter, yet still have penetration to get through the vitals, with some parts of that nasty bullet exiting the far side. THIN SKINNED CRITTERS ONLY. I used it on the waterbuck in the 500 MDM--it was horrendous, terrible trauma inflicted in vitals, two chunks of bullet exiting the far side.

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Sam and Mike, and a bunch of other chaps that visit me from time to time, good news for you is that I had enough of this heat, I just called my guy to come install an air and heat unit on the range this morning! Not cheap, but I hate sweating and sick of it! It will be about a week 1/2 to two weeks and it will be much cooler on the range from now on!

Enough is enough! It's 95 to 100 degrees here outside, humidity to match. On the range I can keep it 85-88 degrees, but if you start terminal and pressure traces down at the 25 yd bench, it starts to wear on you! Can't work in such conditions as that!

Michael

Michael

I am jealous--it was 109* here yesterday, Tried to sight in a rifle, it was just to miserable.

Have fun inside in the AirCon

SSR

Cross

I heard you boys were having a hell of a rough time over there with heat! I also hear that TX is about to dry completely up too! How's the humidity there? Ours is horrible, like a steam bath! That's what kills us here is the heat then add the humidity! Ahhh, either way, hot is hot!

AirCon in about two weeks it sounds like! Shooting in a "Cool Breeze"--

Looks like these funny tips are going to shoot pretty good?

That's a yahoo moment for sure! Now we need to see how they perform in the bullet box.

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Looks like these funny tips are going to shoot pretty good?

That's got to be over 3.6" COAL if sitting on a 375H&H case.

No?
Si.

I think the eliptical point could save you between half and a third that tip length. Good shooting!

quote:

That's got to be over 3.6" COAL if sitting on a 375H&H case.

No?
Si.

I reckon Sam and Mike will have to pipe in with the information…hopefully they measured everything before they fired all the tip inserts.

Hey Guys.
Was not me and Sam shooting a 375, I don't even own one. That was Dan and his crowd shooting that, and he is testing even longer ranges out to 300 + yards and getting BCs on these.

Yes, Dan confirms, this load is 3.600 and will fit in the magazine.

Dan is coming here today for a short visit with Sam and I. I think he is bringing some very interesting things for us to see and play with. I am sure tips for 458 bullets.

Michael

I am going to take the liberty of posting my friend Daryl Lenkic's bullet report and photos for you. Daryl is a friend of mine from Australia, B&M fan, and wildcatter on his own as well. Daryl is waiting on his Australian firearms license currently, and he will have some B&M rifles and all the things that go with them in Australia for purchase down under. Including bullets!

Daryl is right now as I write this back in South Africa with Andrew, just after being in Zimababwe with Andrew. While in Zim Daryl took buffalo and hippo with his 50 B&M. Using the Lehigh/SSK 470 Copper HP and the 510-515 gr SSK Copper Solid. Running the 470 HP at just under 2200 fps I think, and the 515 Solid at a tad over 2100 fps, making these a good combination for buffalo and hippo. Although I probably would have used solids for the hippo, Andrew had Daryl load up the 470 HP as there was another hippo behind the one Daryl shot. Seems to have worked out very well, without a pass thru. The solid would have passed thru no doubt. And I know a little bit about these hippo Daryl and Andrew were after, and we battled to get them on the dirt and not in the water.



This is Daryl's report to me.
Michael
.50 B&M performed very well on both buff and hippo. In each case first shot
was the 470grn HP with a solid following to speed the ‘quietening’ process.
Buff presented standing face on and took first shot in the chest, which
broke the shoulder and passed through one lung. Put the bull face on the
ground bum up turning in a circle. Solid hit him in the right hind quarter
after he had spun 180 degrees, and solid passed through the length of the
body, through the other lung, exiting low on the neck. Game over. Found
five of six petals from the HP in the shoulder area but not the main
projectile. Range 57m.






Andrew left---Daryl right


Hippo was taken standing broadside with HP punching through the shoulder,
passing through the top of the heart and smashing the outer ribcage on the
opposite side. Solid followed up in the right hind quarter and is believed
to have ended up in the stomach, somewhere amid the vast quantity of
digesting grass. Hippo shot on land but made it into the water where he
collapsed about 10m from the shore in knee deep water. Recovered the HP
projectile but not the petals. Range 47m

As stated Daryl is now in South Africa with Andrew and they are doing some plains game now. Also mentioned Daryl is a wildcatter in his own right with what he is calling his 416 Compact, basically a 416 WSM. A little shorter than the 416 B&M, but close in performance. I understand that Daryl is using the 340 Woodleigh Soft for his plains game work. This is a bullet I fell in love with back in 2005 which I used it in a 416 Remington Win M70 as my plains game rifle in Tanzania that year. Performance was incredible and I was running it at a touch over 2500 fps. So impressive was the performance that when I did the 416 B&M a few years ago, it was the bullet of my choice then, and if I could shoot that bullet for what I wanted a 416 B&M for, then I was good to go and happy with that.

From what I can gather from Daryl right now, preliminary mind you, it seems that he is not getting the performance he expects out of the bullet, seeming to not expand as much, not producing the trauma expected? I am sure he can and is running the bullet around 2400 fps or so, and it will perform at that velocity. Below are some of the comments and photos of this at work.




I assume this is the wildebeast that Daryl is talking about below.

Day 2 went out after kudu in the hills. Saw some great trophy kudu, oryx,
waterbuck and impala. While driving along, we saw some blue wildebeest and
Andrew said he wanted one for meat. He asked me “whether I would mind
shooting one for him?” I think the smile on my face told the story. Crept
forward and fired at 100m from the shooting sticks. I felt the shot was
good and heard the impact but the cow ran away. When we moved forward there
was a very prominent blood trail of bright red arterial blood. We followed
it for a 100m until we came to a dead Wildebeest. Shot hit just behind the
shoulder where intended and passed straight through the lungs, with
apparently no expansion as the entry and exit holes were the same size.




Later that afternoon we were again in the hills and Andrew spotted a kudu
bull that I could get a shot at. It was about 180m away and well below us.
I fired the shot but saw the crosshairs drift slightly right just as the
shot broke. Shot impact was clearly heard. Bull ran away but from our
vantage point we were able to watch it go into some thick trees. Andrew
asked me what I thought of the shot and I told him that I thought the round
struck too far back on the body. We went to the spot the bull had been
standing and found the blood trail. It was only light, but we used it and
the tracks to follow up the kudu which we heard going through the final
stages of death about 80m away in the trees. Bullet hit at the right height
but was too far back from the vitals for an immediate kill, as I predicted.
Again the 340grn Woodleigh Protected Point punched right through with
seemingly no expansion.




This morning went to a new location to look for warthog. Within the first
hour we came across a nice old hog that was feeding and totally unaware of
our presence. Fired from the shooting sticks again and dropped him on the
spot. He was kicking a bit as we approached but in no shape to go anywhere.
Took him through the shoulder at a range of 110m. Again bullet punched
straight through him.

I’m a bit surprised with the Woodleigh PPs as I thought that they would
expand more. Waiting to see what happens with the Zebra. Am starting to
think that maybe they need to be going faster to expand. Am thinking that
maybe the 300grn Barnes X may have been a better choice.



I will keep you posted as this progresses and I receive information from these guys.

Michael

Michael,
Good to hear that Dan and his crowd are putting the tip inserts through there paces. Hopefully you'll get a chance to put them through the bullet box. Don't forget to spill the beans on the inserts dimensions...perhaps they're not quite as long as we perceived them to be.

Very nice hunting reports from Daryl...I think I see NonCons and Carnivores, both tipped un-tipped, in his future hunting endeavors.

Hey guys! Sam just pulled out to head back home, so I wanted to clear something up quickly. The 3.6 inch COL on the 375 HH was Incorrect! It was 3.6 before the tip was added, not after! So does not fit in the magazine, but BC is increased quite a bit. Numbers coming soon.

Dan, his son Nathan, and a CEB chap named Bob all come for a visit with us today, and pleasant visit it was. We talked a lot, played a lot, and tested a little! Heh heh heh! Dan brought a run of 62 gr .223 caliber BBW#13s! Guess what? THEY WORK and THEY WORK VERY WELL! Yes, we tested at 3 different velocities starting at 3000 going to close to 3400 fps, and the results will surprise you I promise!

Dan also brought some other interesting things, among them the 458 tips for the BBW#13 NonCons. They are long and we did test them. Popped right into the end ready to go. I will give you a report on those as well. I will be shooting these getting 50 yd BCs for you, not perfect, but give you an idea anyway. Dan is doing some really serious BC work with the 375 at much longer ranges. Ya'll know me, 50 yds is very long range for me! LOL.... A lot of talk about how to do the new Carnivores as well. Along with a lot of other things too.

It will take me some time to put things together for you, most likely tomorrow and the next day too. Right now, it's hot as hell, I am headed for the showers and the big chair!

Michael

I am curious to see how well the 22's performed. I wonder how well they will work when they hit bone.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
I am curious to see how well the 22's performed. I wonder how well they will work when they hit bone.

We learned today that the more velocity you have, the more erratic behavior you get. Still not bad, and as always the #13 likes velocity, but the integrity of the nose becomes effected at velocity, and therefore some erratic behavior! I will show you soon as I can get the report finished and photos.

I think they call for a T'Rex Test! I ask myself the same question--these things are busting hell out of 50 inches of dead straight penetration! Well, that is well into elephant territory you know! But for crying out loud, can a 62 gr bullet go through some really big bone like that? Not that I would, or would ever suggest such a stunt or even consider such a stupid stunt. But the question remains does it not? So, if it can get through a T'Rex, I suppose that is as close as any of us would ever come to answering that question. It's so tiny, I can't see how it could pass a T'Rex test I have to be honest. But who knows these things? Not I!

We will learn.

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
I am curious to see how well the 22's performed. I wonder how well they will work when they hit bone.

We learned today that the more velocity you have, the more erratic behavior you get. Still not bad, and as always the #13 likes velocity, but the integrity of the nose becomes effected at velocity, and therefore some erratic behavior! I will show you soon as I can get the report finished and photos.

I think they call for a T'Rex Test! I ask myself the same question--these things are busting hell out of 50 inches of dead straight penetration! Well, that is well into elephant territory you know! But for crying out loud, can a 62 gr bullet go through some really big bone like that? Not that I would, or would ever suggest such a stunt or even consider such a stupid stunt. But the question remains does it not? So, if it can get through a T'Rex, I suppose that is as close as any of us would ever come to answering that question. It's so tiny, I can't see how it could pass a T'Rex test I have to be honest. But who knows these things? Not I!

We will learn.

Michael

Being a fan of 9.3 and up I sure don't want to encourage any messing with the 223 HOWEVER, testing at the extremes of size, vel, twist rates etc does tell us a bit about the limits.

By the by, if I was testing the 223 seriously, I'd have to look at the twist rates and how the original design accomplishes the tumbling once the target is penetrated.

I think the most useful #13 small solid would be for the AK47s and variations that some African folks carry as "stoppers" on hunts. Maybe a combination of #13 solids and noncons loaded every other bullet in the magazine.

Or, ground hog against 223 noncon!

I do got to stop this kind of thinking and get back to the true path!!! BIG BORES FOREVER!

IBT, and all Others

quote:

Being a fan of 9.3 and up I sure don't want to encourage any messing with the 223 HOWEVER, testing at the extremes of size, vel, twist rates etc does tell us a bit about the limits.

I hear you brother! Rest assured, my short attention span with this will be "short" let's say! I can't stay intrigued with this for very long for sure, much more past just finding out and satisfying a few moments of my curious nature. What I find that really blows my mind is that the #13 nose profile can go from .224 caliber all the way to .620 caliber, and the performance is across the board EXCELLENT and dead straight! This is about the extent of my interests in this. Others in areas of shooting that does not include big bores will have more of a long term interest than I.

I will be playing with some of these, but the basic test work I will do is finished after today. I would like to see some NonCons and what they can do. When that is done we will be leaving the small bores to others. I will however keep myself a good stock loaded for my 223s when deep and straight penetration may be desired.

Twist rates used early are 1:9 in one of my ARs. I am not sure of the twist rate in Sam's rifle we used today?

Michael

A great time was had at Michael's today as usual. Michael and I did pressure traces on a couple of guns while waiting for Dan's crew. When they arrived to fun started. They all had a big time shooting 50 B&M,50SA auto,500 MDM, 510 Wells and 500NE double. Not many people get to start big bore shooting like that.
We shot the 223 BBW#13 in my 22-243 Middlestead with a 1-8 twist in velocities from 3100 to 3300 fps. Very impressive little bullet and I look forward to non cons that I can push to 3700 or so.

Sam

What does SSK charge to convert a Marlin 1895 to .50 B&M Alaskan?
A Browning 71?
Yep, Layne Simpson is at it again in the Rifle Shooter on the newstands now.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
What does SSK charge to convert a Marlin 1895 to .50 B&M Alaskan?
A Browning 71?
Yep, Layne Simpson is at it again in the Rifle Shooter on the newstands now.

RIP

Ballpark around $1300 with the NECG front and rear I like so good. And as always, depends on your specs too. Right now the sights are around $300 + of that total installed. Best to speak with Brian of course on specifics.

Sam and I started pressure traces on the new .500 bullets from CEB and from North Fork yesterday. It will probably take me until next week to finish as I am doing 4-5 different powders with them. The combo is the 375 BBW#13/345 NonCon, 405 BBW#13/375 NonCon, and of course the 450 North Fork. Once I get the pressures up, and top loads, I will do some terminals at those velocities as well.

Doing exact same with the Super Short right now, and way below pressures with the 450 North Fork at over 1800 fps--In the Super Short! Hmmmmm!

Sam--Funny how we never even gave Dan and crew a chance to work their way up to the .500/.510s, just started right off in the 500s and forget the small stuff! HEH HEH HEH....... I mean, we could have let them get a taste of 416 or something before?

Michael

OK for all you HI BC and BBW#13 fans. Remember, above I corrected the statement on the 375 HH. It was NOT 3.600 with the tip installed---3.600 before tip, with makes it long for magazine.

Now, listen very carefully!

This option for the BBW#13 NonCon is just that, an option for you to have something in your pocket for that long range 300 yd or 400 yd shot with the same BBW#13. Most ALL Of them are going to be too long for magazines in the bolt guns, as the BBW#13 NonCon is first and foremost a Dangerous Game bullet, and has already been designed to fit in the magazines WITHOUT the tip. It will be KIT form, put your own tips in a few to have in your belt, pocket or wherever for that longer range opportunity that you might run across while hunting buffalo or such! That is all it is for, nothing more.

I think if you wanted a Hi BC bullet specific for more full time use, you need to have one designed by Dan for that purpose, much like RIP and Max did for their .395s recently.

While I am glad to help out with this, and of course I will keep some tips on hand for you guys, I have little actual interest in them personally. I LOVE THE #13 NonCon just like it is! Sam and I will be working with Dan to tweak the tip, and get it right for terminals and such over the next week or so. Right now, preliminary results show that the tip does change the dynamics of terminals. So I will be looking at that first. So a little tweaking is needed, but probably not much.

As for raising the BC---No doubt it does in fact. Accurate, like always, absolutely. This is target that Dan sent to me last night shot with the 375 #13 NonCon at 600 Yards! And Dan's comments;

quote:

Trapper shot 3 three shot groups at 600 yards with the tipped .375 bullets. 7.25", 7", and 6.75". Not to shabby for a #13. BC still maintained between .500 and .530. We will confirm through the 43 but it is impressive.

Dan Smitchko
Cutting Edge Bullets

It appears that Dan certainly knows what he’s doing when it comes to adding BC to a bullet. That’s definitely better shooting than I can accomplish at 600yds…

I perceive the ballistic and penetration work that’ll be going on perfecting the TIs…that Dan just might be coming up with a new high BC hunting bullet that’ll be designed around athe TI and a large diameter HP.

Jim

Correct, the tip adds a hell of a lot of BC to the BBW#13s for sure! I was never concerned about the accuracy, even though 99% of what I have done with them has been 50 yds are less. Nearly every caliber and weight has been in 1 hole at 50 if I do my part, which is not always easy for sure. You would think as much as I shoot I could shoot better!


The tips that were left for me for the .458s are .550 long, so that adds a lot of length to the overall bullet, but they are single purpose with the tip added. Shooting a double or single shot is not an issue.

I will be doing more work with these over the next week or so.

Michael

Are you guys going to start shooting past 300 yards on a routine basis, if not I don't see the need for tips on a bullet that has proven its self as is

I'll take a handful of 416 tips