At least I now know why there is a copper shortage.

Welcome Home.

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
In a remote area with no cell phone or internet service

Must be nice, I am thinking about sneaking up to Alaska for a week or two.

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:
Mornin Michael

Glad you and the family are back safe and you are getting baack on schedule (EARLY) To dry here in texas to hunt-all the hogs left so not much on this end except the AI stock handles good and sure soaks up recoil. Have had a couple of guys try the 416 and like you say, they are all amazed at how handy the B&M is. Like mosat of us I am really looking forward to seeing what the 475 does, although based on reports so far its hard to see how it could be MORE effective than the 458s and 500s. As we all know a new cartridge and gun is a reason in and of itself.

Congrats again.

SSR

Cross
We just got a nice thunder storm last night, but damn, it was 100 degrees the last couple of days, and I think the humidity 100% as well! Ugly!!!!!

I am looking for my bastogne stocks from AI to be finished VERY SOON--Hopefully Wes is looking in! Yes the B&Ms actually have to be fondled to understand what they are about. They do work. I can't see the new 475s being any better than the 458s and 50s or 500s, but they won't be worse that's for damned sure! The 458 B&M hammered everything I shot just as if it thought it was a Lott! In fact, maybe the B&Ms work so good because they have short and fat complex or something, makes them try that much harder to be long and thin? Hmmmmm? But I can tell you this, with the BBW#13s I honestly believe from the experience I have with the 458 Lott that the 458 B&M did anything a lott can do, and from the old days and old bullets in the lott, the 458 B&M actually is superior to that, with these new bullets. Most certainly I do have a choice, and I reckon ya'll should know what my choice is these days!

Since Hornady is holding me up, I have been emailing Sam this morning, he may come up with something that I can get started on the 475s! That rascal can do about anything I reckon, especially when it comes to pulling miracles out of the air! HEH.......

Michael

Good Morning,

I was just reading about the 338/378 Wheatherby and it got me thinking.
How would the NonCom HP's perform at Mach 3?
I'm betting very well.

On another note:
Can the same bullet technology be used at handgun velocity?

Cheers, John

quote:

Originally posted by Phatman:
Good Morning,

I was just reading about the 338/378 Weatherby and it got me thinking.
How would the NonCom HP's perform at Mach 3?
I'm betting very well.

On another note:
Can the same bullet technology be used at handgun velocity?

Cheers, John

Mach 3: I'm with you.
What's more, the non-cons may be the bullet that Roy Weatherby was missing fifty years ago. High velocity got a bad name in Africa fairly early in the twentieth century because the bullets did not provide guaranteed deep penetration. The non-cons do.

However, we will need a little testing to make sure that the high velocity non-cons all pop out and spread the petal-net wide and outside the main wound channel. Michael would love an excuse for lots more testing and shooting. Since Michael has a 338 RUM he may be able to test a 225-250 grain non-con in .338 at 3000 fps. The results could be spectacular. So I would second this request. Maybe I could load up some 325 grain 416s to 2900 fps in our Rigbys?

Michael already did some slow testing and found bullets opening at pistol velocities. However, at those velocities a person is more concerned with penetration than trauma. If I had to shoot at a dangerous animal with a 44 or a 50 I would rather have guanranteed penetration than guaranteed expansion. But I don't have pistols anymore since I couldn't figure out a way to reduce the noise level if hunting. (I did drop a warthog with a 44RM once.) My hearing is precious.

Ya, I was looking at my 454 Raging Bull and was thinking if there was a way to make the new tech bullets work in a revolver some how.
I was thinking "deer" type game but its hard to beat a WFN cast bullet.

Speeking of noise level. I drove home last month in time to see a coyote killing my chickens. I pulled up, rolled down the passenger side window and cut loose with the 454. I WILL NEVER DO THAT AGAIN
HOOOOO Mama, that hurt !!!!!!

Cheers, John

Non Con bullets need to be tipped to keep a high BC for Mach 3. Also a new ogive VS truncated nose.

Sunny Hill delivered to my door 3 days after a phone call.

Use a Sunny Hill "Long Magnum, Stainless" drop floor plate with a RUM box in the M70?
Will the Wiebe XRM box go with this too?
That would be for either the 500 MDM or the 49-10, for a roomy 3 down in the box.
Sunny Hill does make some others too.

I think the magazine spring will not slip too far forward in recoil with this one.

Of course a new stock from McMillan, ("Winchester Safari" model made to fit the Sunny Hill drop floor plate on a long action, standard offering),
will be needed, or an AI version if one must have wood:

JWP

OK, very excellent, hope it's fun and not work where you are!

Mike
Sorry guys, never thought about the issue of high copper prices being influenced by little ole me! Hmmmm? You may be right!

Thanks, good to be home, almost, except for this BS work I can't seem to catch up on. Getting there if the phones don't ring! Meetings a big part of the day yesterday!

Phats and Tanz

NonCons like velocity. More velocity, bigger performance. Tanz is correct on the handgun--different dynamics in my opinion. Penetration trumps expansion, and the handguns can't churn up enough velocity for the NonCons to work as well, and maybe not at all, not when compared to the rifles. Yes, I do have a 338 Ultra, 358 Ultra, and even a 9.3 Ultra. I guess I could "Juice UP" the 9.3 with those 255 NonCons in 9.3 I already have? Problem is I got really bored with that rifle, never even completed the first generation load data, as the 9.3 B&M came along a few weeks later and I never got back to the 9.3 Ultra? Especially when I knew for a fact I would never in my life take that 24 inch musket to the field anyway!

Talking to Dan this week, he says he is going to get the tips done for the 375 cavity and the 458 cavity. I will test the 458s and he can play with that small bore stuff.

RIP

That floor plate will work with the Accurate Innovations stocks you think? Looks great to me.
I am trying to remember, hard thing these days, but most of my 500 MDMs are 2 piece bottoms, but I have an insert from CDNN that fits 1 piece to the 2 piece stocks--I think? Now if that would just work on an AI stocks that I have? I also think that I have one 500 MDM, that myrtle gun, that is one piece, because it was a Super Grade--I think?

Michael

Yesterday I made myself take a break or two, and I could not stand it anymore, had to see the new bullets, and while looking, did some photos for you and then those will work also for the B&M site as well.

Finally opened the CEB boxes and got some surprises, that I had forgotten about ordering. Previously Lionhunter needed some of the 458 480 BBW#13 Solids, I had only one box on the shelf, did not remember I had Dan do another order of 15 boxes, and they were in there, so LionHunter has 480s on the way. In addition, new wide cavity .458 450 BBW#13 NonCons to match the 480s. Excellent. Also in the box were 15 boxes of .500 caliber 550 gr BBW#13s! For me to complete load data, pressure traces, and of course terminals on the 500 MDM. Very long for the 50 B&M however.





I wonder if there is also a "Brass" shortage?

Michael

I also had to get a look at all the NEW .474 Caliber Bullets from North Fork!!!!!

These 375s were designed for the new 475 B&M Super Short--But I am sure they would come in handy for many other .474 caliber cartridges, as will the new 425 gr bullets!

And now, the entire 425 gr .474 caliber lineup from North Fork. Designed specifically for the 475 B&M, but again, other cartridges will benefit greatly from these as well. .474 caliber has SUFFERED a lack of variety of bullets for way too long, time to change that and make this a more versatile caliber. Thanks to CEB and to North Fork we now have this versatility!

I must share something with all of you this morning! It seems I am always in a learning curve, I forget a lot, but this one I am going to remember!

I opened my wife's credit card bill this morning! Yep, always a dreadful moment in any man's life I promise, and especially my wife as she can spend A TREMENDOUS amount of $$ each month! Believe me! Anyway, opened the bill, $158.00! I looked twice, I thought maybe my glasses were not on, and maybe it was $15'800.00, or normal. But no, it was ONLY $158.00! Hmmmmm? OK, we have been in Africa for 5 weeks during the period, and she had not been home buying things!

Then the Light Bulb Came on!

This means it is CHEAPER for me to go to Africa, shoot hell out of everything there, than it is for me to stay at home when she is in a spending mood! My next trip is nearly paid for already!




Michael

Micheal,

I hear they have some big coastal brown bears across the Bering sea in Russia.
Do you have Russia stamped on your pass port yet?

Cheers, John

Yep Phats, I know about those bears. I do have a Russian stamp in my passport in fact. However, unfortunately there was no bear attached. Some many years ago had a bear trip planned for one of those big coastal bears. The flight schedule changed and instead of hopping over from Alaska, they had me flying completely around the world, 3 days one way, each way! I told them they were crazy as hell and I was not doing that! So that got canceled.

Then two years ago had a Siberia bear shooting planned. Then a trip to mess around Moscow for a week. 3 days before leaving, my guy Alexy called and said do not come, there are no bears! I thought that was pretty good of him myself, but we still went on the Moscow trip and that was quite an adventure itself! But no Russian bears yet! I think I will just continue to shoot Alaskan bears!

HEH......

Hey, North Fork finally got off their ass and listed the .500 caliber bullets on their website! I am kinda proud of that fact myself! Go check them out!


http://www.northforkbullets.co...limit=all&bweight=27

Michael

Michael:

I think you are going to be very interested in the .500 Punch Bullets I will be sending you.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
Michael:

I think you are going to be very interested in the .500 Punch Bullets I will be sending you.

Dave

I bet you are correct! Hey, I know you are dead into your lever guns right now eh? I think you need to take one of those and turn it into a 50 B&M AK? Same gun in your hands now, only .500 caliber? Hmmmmmmmm??????

HEH HEH

Michael

Speaking of .500s

quote:

Talking to Dan this week, he says he is going to get the tips done for the 375 cavity and the 458 cavity. I will test the 458s and he can play with that small bore stuff.

No .500s!!!!

We will most definitely will need tips for the .423 caliber as well.

Now I remember why I’d always put the .423 caliber on the back burner until now…it’s just darn hard to find anyone that has a stock of them! I reckon this caliber must be a slow mover…or the users buy every box on the shelf when they find them…most likely the situation is a combination of both. So the search is on.

The NF’s website currently lists zero stock in .423 caliber bullets. I did finally found one vendor that had some 380gr FPS bullets is stock…so one box on the way here so I can gin up some dummy cartridges…I guess it’ll maybe arrive next week…doubt it’ll be later today but could be. But, no stock of CPS or SS bullets anywhere on the internet (at least that I found)…at least in the hour or so that I put into the searching.

Some kind of glitch with the Barnes website so didn’t buy any TSX or BND SLD bullets from them. I did have delivery this morning of one box of 404 caliber Barnes 400gr TSX bullets for dummy cartridge gin up. I didn’t even try the BND SLD all vendors (with any stock) only listed the new RN BND SLD bullet and I’m not buying any of these.

So how do the TSX bullets pan out? These suckers are long – 1.541” length – and have a lot of bearing surface…the base length is 0.408” in length is all major diameter…and there are 4 driving bands above the very large base band. The box lists the bullets as being .422” in diameter… Nope, the major diameter is .420” for the bands and that big chunk of base bearing surface… There are five grooves and the minor groove diameter (between bands) is – well heck these suckers are all over the place varying from .404” to .407” in diameter!!! I sure hope no one uses these bullets in a .425” groove diameter barrel as there’ll be zero barrel seal with them!

Most definitely we need CEB BBW #13 FN and HP NonCon bullets in the .423 caliber… Michael please have the heavy set constructed with the NE banding as I do need the slightly wider groove seating options as I’ll likely need to crimp the bullets to assure they don’t move in the magazine box under recoil.

Also definitely need the CEB FBHP bullet in .423 as well. I’d basically take the 165gr .308 FBHP, up size it to .423 caliber…move the Seal Tite Band 0.030” forward towards the nose and add a 0.030” Boat Tail to the base…PLUS put a nice spitzer synthetic tip on the sucker by trimming the nose back to fit the tip insert and widen the HP diameter for better expansion…that should push the BC to around .500 for lower velocity and close to .550-.600 for higher velocity. Or just upsize it and modify to accomodate the spitzer synthetic tip insert...that'll work for me. Oh well just noodling here.

quote:

So how do the TSX bullets pan out? These suckers are long – 1.541” length

there is no need for 400 grain in a 416 or its sisters. the TSX will penetrate just fine in 350-360 grain. that shortens the length, too.

sorry to hear about the dimensional shortcomings.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

So how do the TSX bullets pan out? These suckers are long – 1.541” length

there is no need for 400 grain in a 416 or its sisters. the TSX will penetrate just fine in 350-360 grain. that shortens the length, too.

sorry to hear about the dimensional shortcomings.

Unfortunately, unlike the .416 caliber...Barnes only makes the single weight TSX in .423 caliber which is why I only picked up one box for dummy rounds.

Jim

As for the first plastic BC tips, just doing 375 and 458 as the test work first before moving it to everything. Just want to get a handle on how things are going to work with it first up.

I will take care of the .423 caliber BBW#13s. The other pointy things I would rather you deal direct with Dan so I don't get confused on anything! If that's ok! I have to keep things simple you know!

Just have not had time to give Dan the specs yet on the .423s. You can bet, they will be .423 and not wacked around!

M

Michael,

10-4... I'll discuss the FBHP spitzer with Dan directly.

I will give through the 22nd for comments and recommendations regarding bullet overall length, weight, and the length from Seal Tite Band to meplat. Will contact Dan early the following week.

The Barnes "stated" .422" in diameter would have been fine in a .423" groove barrel - but a .420" in diameter is definately to small.

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Yes, I do have a 338 Ultra, 358 Ultra, and even a 9.3 Ultra.
Michael

Now wait one gol dang minute here ...

I thought you ain't got nuthin under .400 there in your shop!



Welcome back to the asylum - the rubber walls have been getting a good workout while you've been gone.

quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Yes, I do have a 338 Ultra, 358 Ultra, and even a 9.3 Ultra.
Michael

Now wait one gol dang minute here ...

I thought you ain't got nuthin under .400 there in your shop!



Welcome back to the asylum - the rubber walls have been getting a good workout while you've been gone.

No I said I don't shoot that small stuff (at least not much) but it is needed to do test work from time to time! I even have 223s--but they are not much fun, so I don't shoot them much! But when I need to test .223, well I have it! HEH.........

M

Michael,

You should go ahead and tell them about our last test!

Sam

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Michael,

You should go ahead and tell them about our last test!

Sam

Do you mean with the 62 gr BBW#13 .223 caliber bullet?

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Yep Phats, I know about those bears. I do have a Russian stamp in my passport in fact. However, unfortunately there was no bear attached. Some many years ago had a bear trip planned for one of those big coastal bears. The flight schedule changed and instead of hopping over from Alaska, they had me flying completely around the world, 3 days one way, each way! I told them they were crazy as hell and I was not doing that! So that got canceled.

Michael, I've done 2 of those trips to Russia for Coastal Brownies. The first one in 05 through Alaska, easy. The second one in 07 through Moscow. Took 4 days to get to camp and 3 to get home. Lots of travel but the hunting is good.

Planning on one more trip for a Spring hunt. Both previous hunts were Fall. Hopefully there will be Alaska routes when I do it again.

Cheers.

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Michael,

You should go ahead and tell them about our last test!

Sam

Do you mean with the 62 gr BBW#13 .223 caliber bullet?

Duh!

Well???????????
Inquiring Minds want to know.

Just how well did the little guys perform?

Ya got to watch these old guys they get sneeky.

Cheers, John

Who are you calling OLD!!!

Doc M,
Duane Wiebe's XRM box will work with your current stocks. Whether it is enough to allow that third round down ... ? ... Surely it must.

The Sunny Hill drop floor plate will require a new stock, by McMillan.

@ michael458,

GREAT to have you back...!!
Please let me know about the Brass. Everything ok ?
Amount / Quality ??

Best
2RECON

RIP
Thanks for the info on the boxes! Hmmmmm? I suppose I may stay where I am with the Winchesters. Really only have the one issue with 3 down in the one 500 MDM--lets see the other FOUR are 3 down with some room and zero issue. The only one, is the one I hunted with! And for gods sakes I don't know why I did not sort that out before leaving, even as inept as I am when it comes to such things, even I can sort that! Why? Gees, don't have a clue--diminished capacity is all I can come up with!

But I won't trade off my AI stocks for box capacity.

2RECON

Thanks, and YES I have the 500 MDM HORNEBER brass In Hand! YES, everything looks excellent, absolutely to RUM specs exactly the same as 375 RUM and as specified. The amount? A lot! I think when we did transfers of funds I came just a little short of having enough for 1000 pieces. I have not counted, but there is a bunch of it. I think Dieter did like 950 +. I hope to be putting it to the test this week. When I test brass, I take 5 random pieces, load and shoot it until I have an issue, or I get to 8-10 firings each piece. If I get to 8-10 firings, there is nothing wrong with that lot of brass as I figure.

When I get this done, I will be getting Dieter to do 9.3, 475 B&M, and the Super Shorts as long as $$ hold out. Will try and take some photos---I am VERY PLEASED. Just Wish Dieter would communicate some better is all! Only issue I have at all is PISS POOR COMMUNICATIONS. Nothing else at all! I will be working with Dieter for all the B&M brass from now on.

Did someone mention something about a BBW#13 .223? Seems so, not sure if I was dreaming or not, as I fell asleep afterwards! Hmmmmm? Let's see If I have such a thing?

Michael

OH yes, look at what I just happened to find!

quote:

Originally posted by Phatman:
Well???????????
Inquiring Minds want to know.

Just how well did the little guys perform?

Ya got to watch these old guys they get sneeky.

Cheers, John

They tell me that "Old" is equivalent to the following words;

wise
a wise old man sage, sagacious, intelligent, clever, learned, knowledgeable, enlightened; astute, smart, shrewd, sharp-witted, canny, knowing; sensible, prudent, discerning, discriminating, sophisticated, judicious, perceptive, insightful, perspicacious; rational, logical, sound, sane;




Michael

OK maybe I am OLD.

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
OK maybe I am OLD.

I sure do Feel Old!


How about some bullet photos? How about photos of bullet from Dead Critters?

This one is self explanatory I think!

I thought I had most everything labeled and documented pretty well, however these two did slip by, I know they were from buffalo, but can't remember details? Maybe I will recall them at some point later.

Something I want to note, the pics of the buffalo are exactly as he fell back down after hammering him with the two nose shots. Zero positioning was done for the photos, he is as he was.

M