Boomy

We may have a 50-55 gr NonCon before long. But, I would not count on one at pocket pistol velocities. NonCons love velocity we know. However, a BBW#13 Carnivore .223, hmmmm?

Dan and I talked Carnivores this morning. I think the Name--BBW#13 Carnivore is a big GO! We agreed to start work on them very soon.

Exciting times for bullets these days, eh? We can thank CEB and North Fork for working with us so closely to get some of these moving for us.

Michael

quote:

Dan and I talked Carnivores this morning. I think the Name--BBW#13 Carnivore is a big GO! We agreed to start work on them very soon.

Exciting times for bullets these days, eh? We can thank CEB and North Fork for working with us so closely to get some of these moving for us.

Exciting times indeed for bullets and the additional BBW#13 nomenclature for hollow point bullets – NonCons and now Carnivores – definitely way cool!

Speaking of NF…I just received a box of 380gr .423 caliber FPS bullets…very nice bullets: 1.375” in length with 0.282” Meplat (66.66%) if I’ve read my digital caliper correctly. I won’t have a chance to load up dummy cases until the weekend but a quick bullet side-by-side with my .423 Dakota-Lapua cases indicates a cartridge overall length of 3.398” with the bullet seated down to the shoulder and 3.440” with the bullet seated to the neck/shoulder junction…and with its 16 narrow band design – 1 base band and 15 upper bands separated by 14 grooves – either length provides a seating groove for crimping if necessary… I’ll have to pick up some CPS bullets to match the FPS but unfortunately their SS bullets are not legally useable for big game in the “giant vulture” zone (bonded lead) so will have to look elsewhere for a monometal spitzer.

Jim

Lots of room here in Texas, no personal income tax and no giant buzzards.



SSR

Texas “was” on our short list. Unfortunately my wife grew up near SoCal beaches and she doesn't do well in hot-humid or really cold-sleet-snowy weather which are about the only times we’ve been through Texas to visit my mom in Arkansas. I just need to get here there during the few months of good weather as see if I can’t at least talk her into a small condo near the beach and a home in good hunting country.

quote:

Originally posted by aliveincc:
Sam, I received 9.3/250g HP and 416/325g HP. Should I use the same loads I'm using for my RL 15/270g/9.3 and Imr 4320/350g/416 ?

Yes you should be able to do that with no problem.

Sam

Thanks Sam .

Took out my Ruger #1 in .400/.395 Nitro Express to the range today to zero in a scope at 100yds. Loaded it with 240gr CEB bullets over 62 gr of H4350, oops, should be 66grains. Two groups of 3 shots each. Each group under .7 of an inch outer measurement! Beautiful cloverleafs.
Thanks guys for such an accurate bullet.

I hadn't seen the interest in 60gr .223 BBW#13s before I sent Michael a PM. I would like a .224 diameter bullet in the 40gr variety BBW#13 for use in 22Hornet.

I'd be interested in 500 BBW#13 solids and 1000NonCons. I just think 60gr is going to be too long for my little cases. I would like to be able to use the existing magazine.

Getting back to big bores...Seeing how well the bullets performed on dangerous animals as compared to the penetration tests. Is there any reason to load 900gr .620BBW#13s any faster than 1600-1800fps? With 2200fps being the load for brontosaurus hunts?

Andy

How do these bullets compare to others in terms of meat loss due to damage?

I'm interested in ordering some, but I don't want to loose a bunch of extra meat for no real gain.

Max

Excellent news! Glad they are accurate! Dan will be happy too!

Andy

Have message going on with Dan on the smaller 223s.

More in my area, Unless you are on an elephant/buffalo/hippo hunt I would run the .620s in the 1500-1800 range for everything else. If I was going on a full bore elephant hunt with .620s then I might move it to 2000-2100 fps at the most. Even with the NonCons on buffalo, MORE than enough.


AK STick

Excellent question. Can't say on small bores. Remember, these are primary designed for Dangerous Game, NonCons being buffalo +. So maximum damage and trauma transfer are designed into them. I will say this in particular on the buffalo I shot. If its a straight broadside or frontal into the chest cavity, and no major bones are hit, then most of the damage goes into the vitals that I witnessed. Yep, good hole in, bigger hole out, and some trauma around both entrance and exits, but massive bloodshot meat I did not see or pay much attention to any, I did pay a lot of attention to the massive trauma inflicted on vitals. Thin skinned game may be a lot different. Gain? Yes, you gain a lot, massive trauma being inflicted upon the animal taking the bullet, far more than any conventional bullet I have ever used or witnessed. Like many, I have never seen anything like them in the field.

Michael

AK Stick,

Shoot them in the head if you don't want to mess up the meat.

Sam

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
AK Stick,

Shoot them in the head if you don't want to mess up the meat.

Sam

Probably not a good idea. As a conservation officer I had to destroy one or two deer every year that had their lower jaws shot off and were starving to death.

465H&H

465 H&H,

I thought you shot elephant in the head!

Sam

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
465 H&H,

I thought you shot elephant in the head!

Sam

True but an elephants brain is sonewhat larger than a deer's head and I don't take head shots farther than about 20 yards..

465H&H

Had to throw that one in 465H&H.

I just figured if someone is that worried about messing up meat they would be a good enough shot to make it count.

I'd rather ruin meat than lose an animal. BIG hole through both shoulders works for me!

It would seem even a small caliber in the BBW 13 flat nose profile might kill an elephant with a brain shot. Who knew a 223 could be a pachyderm skull puncher. Maybe start with W.M. Bell's exploits with a 7mm version in say 140 grains. I don't know if a 22 bullet could do enough brain damage but it would seem it could penetrate enough.

Shot a large cow elk in the chest several years ago. Caliber was .395 and bullet weight was 310gr, this one by Macifej. I forget what the exact velocity was. The internals were mush. there was an exit hole of just above caliber size on the off shoulder. There was no more meat damage than on any other elk I've shot with different bullets and calibers...and a heckuva lot less than that of my son's elk shot with a .300 UltraMag and 180gr bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by prof242:
Took out my Ruger #1 in .400/.395 Nitro Express to the range today to zero in a scope at 100yds. Loaded it with 240gr CEB bullets over 62 gr of H4350. Two groups of 3 shots each. Each group under .7 of an inch outer measurement! Beautiful cloverleafs.
Thanks guys for such an accurate bullet.

Max,
Thanks for instigating that bullet!
And thanks for the load data too.
I will jot it down in my 400/.395NE file, and try it later.

I am planning to start with 102 grains of H4350 in the .395 Tatanka Ruger No.1, and go to 110 grains.
Hope to get 3200-3300 fps with that CEB .395/240-grainer.
That will make it expand no doubt.
Then see how slow it will expand in a Homer Bucket.
I may have to resort to a game farm in Tennessee for the Kill.

The brass NonCon S&H .395/310-grain "VeloHexploder" is an elk "Carnivore." Aye!

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
It would seem even a small caliber in the BBW 13 flat nose profile might kill an elephant with a brain shot. Who knew a 223 could be a pachyderm skull puncher. Maybe start with W.M. Bell's exploits with a 7mm version in say 140 grains. I don't know if a 22 bullet could do enough brain damage but it would seem it could penetrate enough.

Boomie,

In what country would that be legal?

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
It would seem even a small caliber in the BBW 13 flat nose profile might kill an elephant with a brain shot. Who knew a 223 could be a pachyderm skull puncher. Maybe start with W.M. Bell's exploits with a 7mm version in say 140 grains. I don't know if a 22 bullet could do enough brain damage but it would seem it could penetrate enough.

Boomie,

In what country would that be legal?

465H&H

in what country would bell's hunting be legal? none.. is that braying or just superior?

Gentlemen, I have made another mistake. For the load above, it should be 66gr of H4350. I've edited it above.

Oh, and took the grandson (18, 6'4", 240 lbs) out to shoot them, also 310 and 340grainers. He was amazed grandpa could handle the recoil! Brat.
Max

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Had to throw that one in 465H&H.

I just figured if someone is that worried about messing up meat they would be a good enough shot to make it count.

I'd rather ruin meat than lose an animal. BIG hole through both shoulders works for me!

Though I've done it before, getting to brain shooting distance with a moose, is probably slightly more challenging that elephant.

I think I'll load some and try them for bear this year.

Thinking along the lines of BBW#13 I just realized why 22MAG flatnose "solids" work so reliably and penetrate so well.

Looking forward to NonCons for my Hornet and Fireball!

Ahhh, sometimes we just ask the wrong questions. Maybe, not whether something will do it or not, but "Should We?" Most of the time, No, we shouldn't! LOL......... But, it's in our nature to wonder, Will It--Or Not? For me, I don't intend to find out if the BBW#13 60 gr 223 will, at least not on elephant!


I would think under the right circumstances the little 60 gr BBW#13 would be a very good brain shooter on critters like deer and such, me too, I would be close range myself! But, I don't hunt deer so....., but if I did, I would brain them with the NonCon version, pending test work of course to make sure.
Anyways.............

Well, it's seems that the BBW#13 NonCon is getting rather popular, lot's of requests for smaller caliber bullets right now, it seems that come September there will be some new runs of smaller calibers, 338 and 308 being mentioned right now! I suspect this might grow to some other calibers as well.

Plastic high BC tips are on the way! In fact, have a prototype photo of the first one! Seems this might work out, and we might do some tweaking of the thing as we move forward. Dan is coming here for a visit next week and will be bringing some tips for me to work with for the 458s. He is working with the 375s. We will go into more detail as we move forward on this. Do keep in mind, we want this to be kit form--put your own tip in as you need or desire. Also, keep in mind, with the tip added to most current BBW#13s your bullet will be too long for general magazine use--Primary Purpose of he BBW#13 NonCon is "Dangerous Game", at some point in some calibers there might be a high BC #13 designed for general magazine use, but right now, it's for the current BBW#13 NonCons. For those of you that might be out hunting buffalo, lion, bear, what have you, and there is a Trophy Kudu, or elk, or moose or whatever at 250 yds or so. One might have two or three of the nice High BC #13s on the belt, in the pocket, for just such an occasion, slide your buff load out, slide high BC in, and do the deed! That's what this is for! Later, maybe something else, but right now..........

Andy, yep, some of our current loads out there have some little flat nose bullets loaded, I suspect for that very reason, better performance. Remember the little 380 test I could not resist, with those little flat nose FMJs, loaded by Winchester? Hmmmmm? As I recall, double the penetration of the others tested. Might put some 22 mags to the test for fun and giggles? Hmmm? NO, I forgot, this is BiG BORES, not mouse bores! LOL

Sam and Mike are headed my way this morning for a little visit! No telling what we may do, I have not had any time at all to set an agenda for us to accomplish much, might just sit around drink beer and tell lies? Who knows? I think we might do some shooting with a few things, 500 NE, 458 B&M and 50 B&M Super Short I reckon. Mike is picking up his new 50 B&M Super Short, that should be delivered via UPS this afternoon! I think he is looking forward to that.

Michael

First prototype of the BC tip added to a 375 BBW#13 NonCon.



Sam and I talked about it yesterday, he had an excellent "point" (pun Intended) LOL..... Sam says we need the point to be at a steeper angle, making the tip shorter overall. I concur, we will talk with Dan about it too. Maybe have a couple of different ones to work with.

We will see what we see, and how will the tip effect terminals? I think it will do very little and can do more good than harm, possibly at much lower impact velocities the tip may push the blades out? We have good work already at some of the Lower velocity impacts, we will test this.

Michael

quote:

and there is a Trophy Kudu, or elk, or moose or whatever at 250 yds or so

Sometimes those animals don't read the tee-signs too well and stand 300+ yards.

Humor aside, this is all excellent stuff for people who like "flat" calibres.

Bring on the tests and thank Dan for having an adventurous spirit. I just bought some of his standard fare high BC non-cons to see what the 3-banana-petal non-con will do in smaller calibres. Maybe he will try a banana-petal non-con in the transitional flat calibres like the handloaded Rigbys (416 and 458).

Maybe make the tips an egg top kind of half eliptical. Maybe a round nose nose tip

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
First prototype of the BC tip added to a 375 BBW#13 NonCon.



Sam and I talked about it yesterday, he had an excellent "point" (pun Intended) LOL..... Sam says we need the point to be at a steeper angle, making the tip shorter overall. I concur, we will talk with Dan about it too. Maybe have a couple of different ones to work with.

We will see what we see, and how will the tip effect terminals? I think it will do very little and can do more good than harm, possibly at much lower impact velocities the tip may push the blades out? We have good work already at some of the Lower velocity impacts, we will test this.

Michael

Michael,

I understand the “steeper angle/shorter tip” issue… but this prototype tip definitely has to substantially raise the BC of the BBW#13 bullet and perhaps might make it competitive with the CEB FNHP bullets at least in the 200yd to 300yd range; 400yd to 500yd range I’m sure the FNHP bullet will outperform the tipped BBW#13. Rather than eliminating this 1st trial tip outright, a small run of sufficient numbers of the 1st prototype as well as the “steeper angle-shorter tip” so that they could be run in the bullet boxes as well as shot at a range of 200yds to 300yds. Then it can be verified whether both tips work properly by not inhibiting the known expansion of the HP NonCon or HP Carnivore bullets; will also identify any change to the manner of expansion for both bullets. The long range work will identify any BC differences between the two synthetic tip insert styles. This testing would also put to rest any questions as to whether two tip profile kits are needed vis-à-vis a single profile kit – at least in some calibers.

Hope this makes sense. Anyway, just my 2¢…

Edit Added: How 'bout telling us the length of this .375 BBW#13 HP NonCon before the tip insert is added as well as the afterwards length! we nosy folk want to know!!

Edit 2 Added: This would be a very good idea

quote:

Maybe have a couple of different ones to work with.

...something I believe we'd all support.

I think long range non DG non con bullets could start the taper further back and maybe have a 33% tip portion that could be loaded with or without the tip and add a base shear ring to ensure even petal separation. With a thinner petal tip that could make the shearing start at lower velocities and maybe more uniform petals.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Maybe make the tips an egg top kind of half eliptical. Maybe a round nose nose tip

Hey, those elliptical/round-nose might fit in a magazine, improve the BC .100 points, and they do not affect straight penetration since the tip starts to expand on impact.

The real test would be if they reduce deflection on sticks, either better than hollow points that may start to expand too easily or better than a long, sleek ogive that seem to have a reputation to deflect.

The deflection question is of primary concern inside 150 yards where one might want fairly flat non-cons. I like Michael's suggestion to consider the high BC bullets as something to slip in when a 250+ shot presents itself and there is time to ponder.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
I think long range non DG non con bullets could start the taper further back and maybe have a 33% tip portion that could be loaded with or without the tip and add a base shear ring to ensure even petal separation. With a thinner petal tip that could make the shearing start at lower velocities and maybe more uniform petals.

Dan will probably have some ideas on ogive and may be able to surprise us. I little 'scoring ring' sounds promising, too.

As I understand things, the short, 13* ogive was set for the flat nosed solids. The hollow-points are simply mimicking the solids for the moment. That allows them to weigh close to the same weight for similar POI. However, an expanding bullet does not need the nose meplat of the solid, so different ogive designs are possible and change on impact anyway..

quote:

As I understand things, the short, 13* ogive was set for the flat nosed solids. The hollow-points are simply mimicking the solids for the moment. That allows them to weigh close to the same weight for similar POI. However, an expanding bullet does not need the nose meplat of the solid, so different ogive designs are possible and change on impact anyway..

I don’t disagree but Michael’s testing of the smaller caliber (9.3 to .458) CEB BBW#13 HP NonCons bullets demonstrated that there is a close ratio relationship between Meplat diameter and HP hole diameter for the bullet’s petals to properly expand and shear.

The whole idea of the synthetic tip insert kit was to allow a fellow such as yourself to use the already proven .416 caliber CEB BBW#13 HP NonCon bullet – select the desired 325gr or 370gr bullet weight – use or not use the tip insert kit – and then load your magazine with whatever combination of Tipped or Non-Tipped HP NonCon and go hunting. If you use the CEB BBW#13 Tipped HP NonCon and you’re good for PG at their traditional distances (though perhaps not at 400yds) or DG up through buffalo up close and personal ranges. Use the CEB BBW#13 HP NonCon and you’re good for DG up through buffalo at up close and personal ranges but are trajectory-distance limited for PG. And as we know from Michael’s recent hunt…back up that CEB BBW#13 Tipped HP NonCon or HP NonCon with a CEB BBW#13 FN Solid and you’re ready to go muzzle-to-ass in a buffalo should the need arise.

When Michael and I first discussed possible tip inserts I’d already played in QuickDESIGN, QL and QuickTARGET with the 395gr CEB BBW#13 HP Copper NonCon (.226 SD), the 460gr CEB BBW#13 HP Brass NonCon (.263 SD), and the 420gr CEB BBW#13 HP Brass NonCon “Carnivore” (.240 SD) using the same “0.5” 3gr dummy tip inserts” to increase their length and using the SD of Swift A-Frame semi-spitzer bullets (closely matching SDs of the bullets). I ran the loads in the 500 MDM cartridge with a 21” barrel and trajectory wise it was determined that the “tipped” 395gr bullets gave a flatter trajectory than did the “tipped” 420 or 460 gr bullets out to 325yds (my personal distance limit)…The highest velocity was with the “tipped” 395gr bullet and lowest velocity was with the “tipped” 460gr bullet.

This said, I’m positive that Dan can design properly expanding HP bullets for every caliber of interest that have a higher BC than Tipped CEB BBW#13 HP NonCon bullets...which I reckon will be required for 400yd shots. It’ll just take time on his part and money on our part to perfect the dimensions as was done by Sam and Michael with the BBW #13 bullets.

Being a jr member-

It is my thought mthat the BBW#13 non cons are for relativly short range-to 150-200 yds max.

Why try to turn a dragster into a roadcar?

There are many bullets,NF, Barnes, CEB, Nosler etc that do allanyone could ask at range. The BBW#13's solid and NonCon were purpose designed for close range dangerous game. At least that was my understanding.

SSR

SSR…It’s primarily an issue of bullet by availability for my part.

I live in the giant vulture zone here in the Southwest which unfortunately legally requires me to use “lead free” bullets even for shooting varmints. Hence my need is for HP or Tipped-HP monometal spitzer bullets in .423 and .500 caliber to use in my rifles currently being built as I'd perfer to use them than my 300 SAUM beginning in 2012. What’s the availability of lead free HP spitzer bullets in .423 and .500 calibers? It’s neigh on zilch here in the USA!

Yes the Barnes TSX bullet is available for the “404 Jeffery” and the box notes it as .422” diameter; unfortunately the sampling I measured run .420-.4205” in diameter which is a bit undersize for my .423” groove barrel. Plus they weight 400grs and my need is for a bullet in the 325gr range.

Hence my interest in synthetic tip inserts for the CEB BBW#13 HP NonCon (DGBR) bullets. Fortunately the BBW#13 HP NonCon nose design’s performance is already exceptional up close and this performance already carries out to the 150-200yd range With minor tweaking, in this case a synthetic nose tip insert to enhance its BC, should extend this bullet’s proven performance out to the 300yd range.

Dan, owner of CEB, is a great guy and did superb work with Michael and Sam to bring Michael’s and Sam’s BBW#13 design to the market place – as the CEB DGBR bullet line. Dan has a limited offering of spitzer HP hunting monometal bullets and none in the two calibers I require. Michael has requested that we work directly with Dan regarding HP spitzer bullets as his interest in only with the CEB BBW#13 FN Solid and HP NonCon (DGBR) bullets.

Dan just completed a 500 piece custom order run of .395 caliber 240gr FBHP hunting bullets for Ron and Max. He most definitely would manufacture HP spitzer bullets in both .423 and .500 caliber but again on a custom order run basis just as the .395 caliber bullets. Now I have no doubt Dan’s FBHP bullets will perform as designed but I’d like to see bullet box test results and field results with the 240gr .395 caliber bullets first before I place an order for FBHP hunting bullets in .423 and .500 calibers.

Anyway…that’s my rational.

I think a ballistic tip kit to fit the NonCons and Carnivores (especially) would be a great option for single-loading.
Obviously will extend the range, and hopefully will shoot to a useful POI with the same sight setting,
just know your trajectories, etc.
Will there be any adhesive used or will it be a press fit?
New territory for me.
I did dream a bit about it with the S&H .395/310-grain "VeloHexploder."
Plastic or aluminum?
That's "aluminium" across the pond, but they do talk funny there.

BTW, the Duane Wiebe XRM boxes also require enlarging the magazine well at the bottom of the stock, and they taper so much toward the top, that they are useless for cases any broader at the shoulder than a .458 Lott.
Good for an extra round with .375 H&H, or 300 H&H with all that taper and narrow shoulder.
Duane says he has has "heard that they work with .458 Lott," but he was not sure about whether even a .416 Remington would work.

quote:

BTW, the Duane Wiebe XRM boxes also require enlarging the magazine well at the bottom of the stock, and they taper so much toward the top, that they are useless for cases any broader at the shoulder than a .458 Lott.
Good for an extra round with .375 H&H, or 300 H&H with all that taper and narrow shoulder.
Duane says he has has "heard that they work with .458 Lott," but he was not sure about whether even a .416 Remington would work.

That’s unfortunate. I believe that Duane has a small CNC machine that he uses for small custom runs of 10 pieces. If you could get interest in a group purchase you might get Duane to design a M70 XRM trapezoid box that worked with your 49-10…it would very likely work with the RUM and Jeffery Improved based cartridges as well. Otherwise you also try a group purchase for Duane to build a M70 Coffin style floor plate to work with the M70 RUM box. Either solution should get you 3-down with the Lapua case and 4-down with the RUM and Jeffery Improved cases.

Sunny Hill drop floor plate works with M70 RUM box, off the shelf.
Just requires McMillan "Winchester Safari" stock.
McMillan is still figuring for me on whether they can make that stock fit a Pac Nor No. 6 sporter contour.
If they cannot, then I will settle for a No. 5 sporter contour and sand out the barrel channel myself, thus voiding the McMillan warranty.
At least i will have my 14.5" LOP and a swirly, molded in finish of marbled olive green, black, and gray.
AI needs to start making stocks to fit the Sunny Hill drop floor plate.
Will be firing the first test shots of the 404 RIP into the dirt later today. ZZZ ...

Michael,
I saw your post on the DR Forum so you must be around today. So...what were you guys up to yesterday?

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
I think a ballistic tip kit to fit the NonCons and Carnivores (especially) would be a great option for single-loading.
Obviously will extend the range, and hopefully will shoot to a useful POI with the same sight setting,
just know your trajectories, etc.
Will there be any adhesive used or will it be a press fit?
New territory for me.

I might have a two-week window in August for loading up some non-cons with tips in .416 if available, whether pressure fit or adhesive. We will be watching this thread to see if this becomes a 'go' for this year.

Good Morning Guys!

Been out a couple of days, but I see you have entertained yourselves as normal! Excellent. I won't answer going into detail some of the things you have been discussing, but will touch lightly on my opinions anyway, then tell you what Sam, Mike and I were doing for a couple of days, Thursday and Friday!

First, Cross is correct, the BBW#13 NonCon HPs are first, and foremost DG Bullets, meaning to me long range is 50 yds. 25 yards is normal distance I want to be anyway, closer is better. This is what they are designed for, buffalo control, dangerous game control, puts you in the drivers seat!

I think they are excellent for putting down other game too, thin skinned antelopes, moose, elk, what have you. But these involve distance sometimes, so for those that want that, the new tips that we are going to try in them. In kit form for the same bullets you use for DG. No, they might not fit a magazine full as the tip will add length. We are just adding versatility to the bullet is all.

Right now they are "Press Fit" tight. According to Dan, they are not easy to get out, press fit to match the cavity of the BBW#13 HP.

Capo is correct also, in the part about the undersized Barnes. We were playing with one of Sam's 500 NE and the supposed .509 Barnes Banded the other day, not .509 as stated, .507 or so, and could not even crimp them in the case, finger turning in the case. Not only has barnes abandoned us on nose profile, but now it seems they can't figure out what diameter bullet goes where? JHC! Barnes Who?

Dan is dropping by next Wed for a short visit with Sam and I. He is dropping off tips for me in .458 to do test work with, which I will do BC short range at 50 yds and terminals, and POI in comparisons to normal BBW#13s. You guys are going to have a very difficult time talking me into going outside for 100 Yd BCs---it's hovering around 95 to 100 plus degrees here, this is July and August you know! I will see what we get at 50! Dan will be doing 375s at really long range, 300 yds and will sort those little bores out--which will tell us a good deal even going up in caliber.

RIP, damn about the boxes! But not surprising!


Capo, I think that was Sam's post on Doubles about his Sabatti 500 NE we played with. I don't remember posting on it yet. For the most part I took yesterday off. But did post something on the article in RifleShooter, that emron started a thread. Beibs is sending me a copy since I have not had time to look for one. Anyone else seen it? just wondering if it was any good or not?


When I get those tips from Dan I will show some photos of how they fit and let you guys know. They are pressure fit, no adhesive.

Michael

Sam, Mike (450NE) and I had a great visit as always. Sam and Mike were doing some long range work at his house on Wed, while I was still here working on some real work to pay the bills here. They came in early Thursday morning, and we did some things with Mikes new 458 B&M and Sam's Sabatti 500 NE, but honestly I was so tied up with work related things a good portion of the day about all I could do was step in back and forth with them, much of the day they were working on stuff on their own!

I had been so busy from the time I returned from the trip on the 12th I had not had time to even set an agenda for us to get much done as far as test work together and things that we would normally do. I did make up a couple of boxes of test medium, but we never used it. So I will be using it maybe this coming week on some things.

We were waiting on Mikes new 50 B&M Super Short to come UPS on Thursday too. This was one of our main missions to shoot it, sort any little bugs out and get it up and running too. It did not come in until late Thursday evening, but we started shooting it on Friday. Like all things, it had a few little bugs to sort out. We sighted in the irons, the scoped it up, and started working with it. In the end, it shoots like all the rest, better than we can shoot it! It likes nearly anything we shot, and if I had shot better it would have been very impressive. I did manage to get some 3 shot one holes with the 385 Remington at 2120 fps, 375 North Fork CPS at 2130 fps, I pulled one of the 345 CEBs so that was my fault or they would have been in a hole as well. It also likes very much the 450 gr North Fork at 1780 fps, the new premium bonded for the 50 B&M AK---had 4 of them in one hole, let one slip about 1/4 inch to the right-Damn!

Mike has to lock down the magazine spring into the floor plate, then I think it's good to go from there. All the Super Shorts have to have this done, recoil sends the spring back and forth in the floor plate, and when this one is too far to the rear, then it don't like to feed. Lock it in the front, then it feeds everything from that point. One of those little bugs to sort out.

We fell in with Sam's new Sabatti 500 NE during this time as well. I found it to be an excellent gun, and then consider the cost, very excellent. I liked it a good bit, it's short, light and rather handy. I like the lighter weight of the Sabatti 500 NE. Some traditionalists think it's too light--I say hogwash and buggery! It's almost perfect. You do still have to carry these things in the field you know! Who the hell wants to carry a long 12 lb anything? NOT ME! Hell with that!

Sam's peep sight he made for the gun is superb in all ways, with the exception for 50 yds he is going to have to narrow that big WIDE bead down some. It's as big as my flip up NECG ivory colored beads, which covers 6-7 inches of target at 50 yds! So it's difficult to shoot little groups with. Wish we had taken the time to put the scope on for test work. The sight was high and slightly right, which is easy for Sam to sort out, but the sight is not adjustable, yet, so we did nothing with adjustment of sights. At 25 yds we could see better so we shot better of course. But it seems the rifle will regulate with most any of the bullets we used, and CEB BBW#13s is not going to be a problem at all! This is a Sabatti without the grinding in the muzzle. So they are coming along it seems! I found the rifle excellent in all ways, it was tight, functioned perfectly, and shot very well. We tested a lot of loads in it with IMR 4350 from 104 grs to 108 grs and it was giving us over 2100 with the 107 and 108 grs of IMR 4350. And the 107 and 108 seemed to shoot the best and closest with the BBW#13s--some in the same hole, and all close within 2 inches or better. Excellent with that big bead that covers everything, I suspect with the scope on there would have been many holes touching right and left at 50. And probably many 1 hole groups at 25 yds! I see zero issues with this rifle.

Mike also got his 458 B&M sighted in and BBW#13s Solids and NonCons in the same hole at 50 yds, 450 #13 Solids/420 Matching NonCons. Not much time to try anything else, as both Mike and Sam decided to call it a day late Friday and head home.

We had a great time as always, just wish I had been more caught up on Thursday and could have spent more time with them!

Michael