I just fired off a 2nd order of 300 pieces (15 boxes) of the .423 Dakota brass - Lapua manufacture - at under 92¢ each delivered to my doorstep. That gives me 600 pieces (30 boxes) so I’m good to go…that is unless I get a “wild hair” in another few days.

Anyone that’s interested… They’re being sold on the Grafs and Sons website on a “while the supply lasts (no reorders/no backorders)”.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Jim,
No new GSCs for me.
It is just too difficult to deal with getting bullets from RSA when there are such great bullets on this side of the pond: CEB and North Fork.

Doesn't look like they ever got their US facility open either. But you're correct...with CEB, NF, and S&H, they're really not needed.

Email sent to Mike Cuypers.

Been kind of busy and couldn't keep up with the thread. I'm interested in one of the pocket drop plates for my lefthand Ruger MKII std action. This is in the .395 Max and I just would like one more round down. Do you know of anyone currently making this?
Max

(p.s. don't tell Michael, but if he and I don't find an M-70 LH short action, I may need to use a Ruger for the .475 B&M.)

Max,
Ruger boxes?
Nice for the .395 Ruger Max.
Maybe jeffeosso has given this some thought for his excellent 500 AccRel?
But ...
Winchester rules this thread!
You do not want a a Ruger short action for a B&M. The box on a Ruger short action WSM is under three inches length, so is a Remingtom SAUM.
The Winchester is over 3" long in the WSM actions,
If you are doing a B&M, you MUST use a Winchester!
Keep looking for that Winchester short action.

Prof242

You might check this out:

http://www.gunsamerica.com/962...EFT_HAND_7MM_WSM.htm

http://www.gunsamerica.com/936..._SPORTER_7MM_WSM.htm

SSR

Cross L,
Thanks a lot. As usual an AR member has helped me get a rifle (and emptied my wallet ).
RIP helped me find my Ruger LH mkII that is now the .395 Max.

Prof242,

Glad to help- was browsing and saw them. Wouldn't want Michael to have a fit over heresy.



Besides any day I can eliminate a 7mm is a good day



SSR

Just got an email from My PH buddy that used some 577 ammo that was loaded with BBW#13 solids. He is hunting in Botswana now and has shot several elephant through the shoulders backing up clients. He said all bullets passed completely through and were very effective. He wants more ammo. Another good field report on the #13s.

Sam

Michael and Sam:

I just talked to Jeff at Belt Mountain and ordered fifteen 400 grain .458 Punch bullets. I should have them this week and I will get five of them off to you to try.

As a side note, I noticed that they also make a .500 caliber 420 grain Punch bullet as well. Might be just the thing for the .500 B&M.

Dave,

I going to Michael's as soon as he gets over jet lag and hangover. I'll make sure he gets them tested.

Sam

Well it looks like the .423 Dakota is moving forward nicely.

Dakota Arms is shipping reloading dies today. PT&G had a new .423 Dakota Removable Pilot Finish Reamer on a closeout special for $66…so it’s also shipping today and Go and No-Go Gauges are on order and will ship when completed. I also have 600 pieces of Lapua manufacture .423 Dakota brass that will be arriving shortly, 300 pieces tomorrow and 300 pieces next week. They were purchased on special for 91.6¢ each shipped to my doorstep from Graf’s and Sons.

Now I’m off to find a barrel.

Jim,

That sounds great! Boy I'm glad someone bought that .423 barrel in classifieds I almost most jumped on it. Like I really need another gun or project. Addictive for sure.

Sam.

Sam,

Yes very good price on everything…so far. That barrel was sold before I saw it or it just might be on its way here as well. It most definitely can be addictive…and now it appears that I’ll have two simultaneous builds underway. LOL…

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Just got an email from My PH buddy that used some 577 ammo that was loaded with BBW#13 solids. He is hunting in Botswana now and has shot several elephant through the shoulders backing up clients. He said all bullets passed completely through and were very effective. He wants more ammo. Another good field report on the #13s.

Sam

This is how to get the word to the hunters, through the PHs.

I know Doctari is experimenting/studying the flat nose vs round nose bullet issue. I wish I could get some CEB #13 flat nose bullets into his hands. He has a wide audiance.

If not before, how about we corner him at the DSC and cross his palm with some CEB # 13 flat nose bullets? Maybe slip in a few noncons? He uses a 505 Gibbs. He's a regular attendee at the DSC.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Y'all,
I shall email Mr. D'Arcy Echols and tell him about the pertinent pages of this thread, ask him to skim to the pertinent box and bottom metal stuff, if he has time some day.

I'll call Duane Wiebe again and Sunny Hill for the first time and see what is shaking.

That is about all I can handle at the moment because I am also calling Ben Syring of Hornady Custom dies to finalize the "12,7x68 49-10" order.

Jim,
You are hereby deputized as MIB Deputy for both WLABMS and WSABMS duties.



This buffalo was killed with one shot, Copper NonCon, light bullet at high velocity for a DGR: GSC HV .510-caliber/450-grain at 2654 fps MV.
That was a "reduced load" in the 500 Mbogo.
Range was about 80 yards.
The GSC HV did not open up! But it still made it through the heart, before going squirrely.
From an on-side shoulder hit, the bullet was found with bent nose, lying in the chest cavity full of blood.

The .500-caliber/460-grain Brass NonCon at 2500 to 2600 fps might be more spectacular.
And certain to open up at any velocity:
Heart and lung grinders!

I think the Winchester M70 with 500 MDM ballistics, and also 49-10 Winchester M70 and 500 AccRel Ruger and standard Mauser,
are the ultimate DGRs, for their power in a relatively light rifle.

After seeing the video, this picture is quite nice and detailed. Congratualtions on the buffalo. I did like the way it raised up in aporeia in the video.
And while on details, thank you for sharing about the squirrely bullet. Those kinds of mysteries need investigation. I have occasionally pondered getting some GSC bullets but timing and difficulties have put me off. Still, the 450 grainer looks like a very good choice for flight ballistics, which are the first half of the story.

and yes, your reduced load to what is close to the 500 AccRel was noticed. Very Interesting. That load level is also something to consider. My philosophy would opt for an Mbogo only if I decide to use the capacity, otherwise the AccRel or 49-10. And bullet selection is part of the picture. I had been thinking about the GS 450 grain, but am now more intrigued by the 460 non-con in .500. I have a feeling that these short supermagnums are going to generate some more bullets, too. Something lighter in the .510's and maybe something pointy. The .500 and .510 future looks brighter thanks to your efforts and those in this thread.

Duane Wiebe said he would go ahead and ship the XRM boxes on hand and the followers later.
He must be bogged down in work, or his machines are bogged down in metal chips. A good thing usually.

D'Arcy Echols says that 3 of my 49-10 dummies go into his 404 Jeffery M70 box with another 1/8" of compression depth remaining in the spring.
Of course the sight of the CEB and North Fork "Blunt Noses" clued him into a challenge.
Rail and Ramp work?

I ordered a Sunny Hill "Drop Long Magnum, Stainless" part #745 for the M70.
Thanks to the nice young lady "Sanna" (like Donna with an S instead of a D), wife of Chris,
for being at the phone during lunch.

Will report as it develops.

And Jim is ordering some 49-10 dies from Hornady and hydraulic forming die and .338-to-.500 neck expander?
I may be buying my 49-10 brass from him someday ... if he doesn't get too bogged down in .423 Dakota-Lapua short magnum stuff.

-

quote:

And Jim is ordering some 49-10 dies from Hornady and hydraulic forming die and .338-to-.500 neck expander?
I may be buying my 49-10 brass from him someday ... if he doesn't get too bogged down in .423 Dakota-Lapua short magnum stuff.

Before I get bombarded with requests for brass, the Hornady hydraulic forming die only replicates fire forming the brass to its full dimensions using compressed water vis-à-vis primer, powder, and something to stopper the case.

Oh yes…perhaps in comparison to a full length Rigby or Gibbs brass the .423 Dakota-Lapua brass would be considered “short”…but as I’m 62yrs old I full recollect that magnum brass measuring 2.4”-2.6” in length was referred to as a “standard magnum” and were typically designed for a 3.4” length magazine. A ”short magnum” was that stuff short enough to typically fit within a 3” length magazine.

quote:

D'Arcy Echols says that 3 of my 49-10 dummies go into his 404 Jeffery M70 box with another 1/8" of compression depth remaining in the spring.
Of course the sight of the CEB and North Fork "Blunt Noses" clued him into a challenge.
Rail and Ramp work?

This is very good news! And yes, rail and ramp work should be on the list of “have to pay attention to” by your gunsmith. Duane Wiebe has a very good write up pinned to the Gunsmithing Forum regarding rail and ramp work…I think it was for the .500 Jeffery. It’s definitely good reading for the consumer and a refresher for the gunsmith who hasn’t fine-tuned an action in quite a while.

416Tanzan,
An 11-pound 500 Mbogo loaded full is about like a 500 AccRel, 500 MDM, or 49-10 rifle of 9 pounds loaded full, in the recoil department.

Full power in either class rifle is punishing, but do-able, portable.

Shooting a load of the lesser ballistics in the heavier rifle is a joy on the shoulder.
I was just trying to prove what the 500 AccRel, 500 MDM, and 49-10 could do, by using the reduced 500 Mbogo load.
Knocks a cape buffalo for a pretty good loop.

OK Jim, your .423 Dakota-Lapua is not a short magnum at 2.480" case length.
But it is fatter than the usual standard magnum.
Would you settle for "fat mag?"

D'Arcy Echols has put me off, he does not have anything to offer in bits and pieces for me at this time.
Maybe if I get in line for a full blown Legend in 49-10 he could work it out?
Still waiting on the XRM box from Mr. Wiebe, and the Sunny Hill.

"Fat mag" work for me.

That’s to bad about the Echols situation…fortunately you can purchase the McMillian manufacture Echols synthetic M70 rifle stock which I’ve read nothing but very positive reviews about.

Something to remember about Duane is that he’s in his 70’s and is not a large scale custom rifle production operation. Thanks to the local tax office Duane had to pull Sound Metal Products (his separate bottom metal business) back under his custom gun making business. Unfortunately all finances are out of Duane’s pocket to build and stock the bottom metal parts so he typically has to wait for sufficient business in a “specific new” box or bottom metal before he does a modeling workup to perfect the final product. Once an item becomes an inventory product it becomes that balancing act between having a couple on the shelf for immediate delivery vis-à-vis the financial need to sell “most” of a minimal 10-item batch run to at least cover his costs associated with the raw materials, his employee who runs the CNC machines, plus the associated costs for running/maintaining the CNC machines and storage. Then throw in his picking up some direct volume supply to other gun builders and this further slows delivery of some items down as they're accomplished in either batches of 10 (with his small CNC machine) or batches...heck can't remember if it's 30 or 40 items (his larger CNC machine).

But you'll get the XRM box without to much delay; and if the Echol's 404 Jeffery trapezoid box would resolve your 3-down issue I can't imagine way Duane's trapezoid box wouldn't work as well.

I don't know how many trapezoid boxes the group of you might need for the M70:
1) The South Carolina FN manufacture M70 vis-à-vis
2) The New Haven Classic M70, and
3) How many of each are Long Actions vs. WSM actions.
4) Then we get into the subset of CM vis-à-vis SS.
If there were a sufficient number of each then very likely Duane could be talked into doing a specific batch run of the parts for each grouping including the South Carolina FN M70 and the WSM action M70s. Just saying this is something to think about.

And no…I do not work for nor do I receive compensation from Sound Metal Products or Duane. I just waiting for a couple of bottom metals myself for my two M98 Mauser builds is all so my gunsmith has informed me of the issues delaying the builds is all.

All I can say is that Michael's lack of range...and the current lack of field work by anyone...is killing us with these fill-in conversations!

http://www.municion.org/404/404Schuler.htm I thought this might interest you Capo. Sorry for the off topic.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
http://www.municion.org/404/404Schuler.htm I thought this might interest you Capo. Sorry for the off topic.

Pretty cool. Thanks Boom

Ok…some more off-topic trivial information.

I just spoke to Penny at Pac-Nor and paid for a new 3-groove 1:10” twist 404 (.423) caliber rifling button as well as new 404 (.423) caliber Super Match Grade CM barrel. So my .423 Dakota-Lapua is one step closer to completion.

Why a 3-groove button?? Very simple per my conversation with their technical folk a couple of weeks ago…the 3-groove barrel gives just as good accuracy as the 5, 6, 8, 9 groove barrels BUT it results in less throat erosion with overbore cartridges over the long haul...so basically a win-win situation. Was thinking of you Ron!

FYI All: For anyone interested in a 10” twist rate 404 (.423 bore) barrel… The barrel button will be staying with Pac-Nor for their future sales use… You may have to reference Jim Ward from Capistrano Beach, CA to identify the twist rate availability for the next few days until it has been integrated into their system. Feel free to order.

Now back on topic. I have nothing...

That 404 Schuler is about like a rebated .423/.338 Lapua Magnum, an odd case, skinnier at the base than the Rigby case by about .010" of diameter, and only 2.75" in case length, maybe closer to a Lazzeroni .423 BIBAMUFU.

The 404/.416 RIP will be considerably more fun, than a 404 Schuler.

When I first did the .423/.338 Lapua Magnum 2.7" in 2006, "sumbuddy who don't know" said I should do the 404 Schuler.

Jim,
Gimme a chance to get the McGowen barrel back on the Dakota action for the 404 RIP.
Then I shall give one of those interesting Pac-Nor barrels a try.

Welcome back Doc M, tomorrow?

Welcome back Michael.

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
Welcome back Michael.

Thanks Jim! I am indeed back home and all is well, except for all the crap I am doing and have been doing since Monday afternoon. It's been non stop here since arriving. Trying to catch up, trying to sort real work out, blah blah blah. I am making progress, not too much off schedule, waking up at 2;30 and 3 am, and hammer down until I get things sorted out! Have not had time for anything else.

I can tell you this, I suppose that North Fork and CEB had a meeting last week, and decided to send boxes on top of boxes of bullets and all arrived Monday, and Tuesday, or I don't know if they all arrived, but there is a lot of bullets to sort out. 6 big Priority mail boxes from North Fork, 3 big boxes from CEB, 2 boxes of 500 MDM brass from Horneber (YIPPIE) and I don't even remember what else. I have not had time to go through anything yet, so you know I am damned swamped and busy if I can't look at my bullets eh? Holy Cow! I am working 16-18 hours a day in hopes that soon I can at least open the boxes and see what's in them? Whew!

I hope to be caught up with work related things this week, or at least be to a point, never really ever catch up.

I am pleased to say that travel is not as bad as it was a couple of years ago. I flew Delta, and they were delightful. It's non-stop and scheduled exactly right so there is little jet lag if you play the game right. South Africa Police Service on arrival, great to work with, I get permits ahead of time, especially with the B&Ms so that there is zero confusion on arrival. Met by Anne at Hunters Support with permits in hand, I am in and out of there soon as the rifles arrive, check the serials and gone, minutes only. Easy process. Customs in Atlanta still a bitch of course, our folks here treat hunters like crap most of the time, and they are ignorant as crap. Customs guy asked if I had "WEAPONS" with me? I answered No, but I do have two hunting rifles! Told him that weapons were for "WAR" and I had my "Weapons" at home, but was traveling with my Hunting Rifles. Ass Wipe Rolled his eyes up at me, and I just told him to get his terminology correct next time! F*&K*&G ass wipes! Now what do you reckon Customs ever finds when checking hunters coming into the USA, with their hunting Rifles? Weapons smugglers you reckon? I estimate they have NEVER ONCE EVER found a "Weapons Smuggler" amongst the hunters coming through--Just BS to aggravate the shit out of us, and then to just hold us up is all. I really get aggravated with our customs guys, and Atlanta seems to have all the pricks gathered in one spot. Washington and some others are not too bad. But it is what it is!

Back to work!
Michael

quote:

6 big Priority mail boxes from North Fork, 3 big boxes from CEB, 2 boxes of 500 MDM brass from Horneber (YIPPIE) and I don't even remember what else.

Very good to hear. Let us know the quality of the Horneber' 500 MDM brass! And perhaps a photo to boot.

Man, OK, I could not stand it any longer! I busted open all the North Fork USPS boxes and unpacked something like 2500 new North Fork .474 caliber bullets and 500 new .500 450 gr Bonded bullets for the 50 B&M Alaskan! WOW---

.474 caliber 375 gr FPS and CPS for the new 475 B&M Super Short! Yes, I am thinking buffalo with these for sure! I bet the penetration is there, with the new CPS "EXPANDING" CPS!!!!!!!

.474 caliber 425 gr FPS and CPS and with ZERO doubt in my mind fine buffalo bullets for the 475 B&M!

.474 caliber 425 gr Bonded Premium Bullet! Yep, you heard me correct, a pointy thing it looks great! Somewhat reluctant to speak of these as I really don't remember working on this with North Fork, maybe they made a mistake? Anyway, I have them in my hands, and they cannot have them back!

No time for photos of these beauties yet, but will try and get some the next day or so for you to see! Finally .474 caliber has become versatile with a better selection of bullets! These North Forks combined with the new CEB BBW#13s, well, I can't see a reason for anything else myself!

Michael

Christmas in July!

Welcome home, Michael. Glad you're back so that you can send me those 480gr. .458 bullets. We are excited to use them in our Lott rifles - RSM & Dakota - for September Elephants. We believe this may be the best of both worlds - 450 v. 500gr. - for use in the Lott. Your work is amazing.

Check your e-mail for the mailing address.

Best,

Michael,
Sounds Great!! Now if we can find out if that .475 B&M will function through the magazine of my rifle.
Max

HOT DAMN He's back

Welcome home Micheal.

Can't wait to see the pointy 475's

Cheers to your hunt. Now get a little rest and some junk food...LOL

John

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
Welcome home, Michael. Glad you're back so that you can send me those 480gr. .458 bullets. We are excited to use them in our Lott rifles - RSM & Dakota - for September Elephants. We believe this may be the best of both worlds - 450 v. 500gr. - for use in the Lott. Your work is amazing.

Check your e-mail for the mailing address.

Best,

Thanks Mike! Glad to be here, I think? Work has been somewhat aggravating, and interfering with really important things, however, actual work does pay the bills! SO............

Anyway, I found one box of 480s on the shelf, they are on the way, but first I need to open the CEB boxes to make sure I did not have another run made of those, and they are in there. Either way, regardless, I will make sure you have plenty of these bullets to do what you need to do! No worries.

I also think the 480 is dandy, and best of both in between 450 and 500 especially in the larger capacity 458s, like the Lott's. These also do extremely well in my 458 B&M, limited capacity like the 458 Winchester. I am running these at 2165 fps in the 18 inch 458 B&M, and they do very well in the straight line, deep penetration department. I took some with me to use on buffalo as second shots, but damn, I never got to them, and used the 450. I had a very ambitious test schedule, and I was not able to get to everything I wanted to do!

Max, I need to still load some dummies for you, and will get that done, asap. I found a few Win M70 leftys over on gunbroker, New Haven guns. Go check those out first, personally I would much rather see you do that and not be limited. I think there is magazine issues with what you want to do.

Thanks Phats!

Well let me see if I can entertain you chaps just a little bit. I will get some more photos up the next day or so of the bullets recovered from critters, and some of these new .474s and .500s. But I did manage to unpack the North Fork boxes and try and find a place to put them! I am loosing the battle on having enough shelf space for all the bullets! HEH.... Hell, I will stack them to the ceiling if I have to! Can't have too many bullets I reckon!








Michael

Mornin Michael

Glad you and the family are back safe and you are getting baack on schedule (EARLY) To dry here in texas to hunt-all the hogs left so not much on this end except the AI stock handles good and sure soaks up recoil. Have had a couple of guys try the 416 and like you say, they are all amazed at how handy the B&M is. Like mosat of us I am really looking forward to seeing what the 475 does, although based on reports so far its hard to see how it could be MORE effective than the 458s and 500s. As we all know a new cartridge and gun is a reason in and of itself.

Congrats again.

SSR

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
No time for photos of these beauties yet, but will try and get some the next day or so for you to see!

Michael

WHAT? There's always time for photos!! !!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
No time for photos of these beauties yet, but will try and get some the next day or so for you to see!

Michael

WHAT? There's always time for photos!! !!!!!

OK, now just where in the hell have you been for the last month or so?

M

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
No time for photos of these beauties yet, but will try and get some the next day or so for you to see!

Michael

WHAT? There's always time for photos!! !!!!!

OK, now just where in the hell have you been for the last month or so?

M

In a remote area with no cell phone or internet service