A short 423 on a rum case? Fun. Long neck and shallow slopinging shoulder?

quote:

I do like the idea of the Nitro Express banding (4 bands equidistantly spaced) for the heavy pair

Actually the 4-equally spaced banding "was" the very initial order of 500gr .500 caliber FN bullets. The NE banding is still 1-down and 3-up but the upper three are further spaced apart than the 3-up in the standard BA (bolt action) banding.

quote:

A CEB FBH copper bullet might be nice too, in the 320 to 340-gr weight range.

This would be nice as well.

quote:

A short 423 on a rum case? Fun. Long neck and shallow slopinging shoulder?

Michael’s normal B&M would be the short neck 2.25” shortened RUM case.

If you’re asking about my impending 423? I’ll be using Lapua brass that’s headstamped .423 Dakota-Lapua. Cases were make by Lapua for Dakota before Dakota Arms went into financial difficulty about 6 years ago. I just received a relating reamer print so it’s basically a .338 Lapua Magnum case shortened to 2.475”-2.480” length, has an approximate 0.39” neck length, a 35º shoulder angle, and slightly greater case taper than the parent case (approx. 0.006” less shoulder diameter) so it’ll have a sloppy case but not a sloppy shoulder angle. However, using the 500gr .500 BBW #13 FN for measurement (only cause I have some) with the bullet seated in the upper seating groove would give a loaded COAL of 3.108” length. I don’t recollect the internal magazine length of the M70 WSM box, but this’ll almost fit in one…slightly shorten the case and it’d definitely fit…but only 2 down with the factory box.

If making the 423 Dakota on a Mauser I wonder how a 500 Jeffery floor plate and follower would work. 10.75x68 fans would love the lighter pair of BBW's in .423"

It would be a fun project to make a 4 down floor plate for the WSM actions. Make these B&Ms a 5 shooter.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
It would be a fun project to make a 4 down floor plate for the WSM actions. Make these B&Ms a 5 shooter.

Now you are talkin. I have looked at several options and it seems it wont be too hard Weibe,Echols and others have metal that might work. The box doesnt seem to bad, its the follower I am worried about.

SSR

Jim,
Those WSM boxes on the short Winchester actions, like my Classic .458 B&M, are only 3.040" long inside.
Still light years better than the 2.995" of a Ruger or Remington.

Thanks for the correction on the Nitro Express bands. I got confused by the old version .500/500-grain "samples galore" that Doc M sent my way. Excellent all.

If there is reason for the silghtly wider spaced "NE" 3+1 bands to appeal to antique and double rifle shooters,
maybe it would still be a good idea on the heavier .423 CEB bullets for 404 jeffery shooters, as you say?

What do you call the "bolt action" 3+1 bands? "B&M 3+1" bands?

Either of the current band structures would work for me.

Current CEB weights (lengths to be measured yet), for the calibers closest to .423:

.409 400 gr. NE Brass Solid, DGBR NE:

The .409 375 gr. NE NonCon, DGBR-HP NE looks identical in side profile, and no nose shot is shown at CEB's web site.


.416 400 gr BBW#13 Brass Solid, DGBR R03:



.416 370 gr BBW#13 Brass NonCon HP, DGBR-HP R04:



.416 350 gr BBW#13 Brass Solid, DGBR R01:



.416 325 gr BBW#13 Brass NonCon HP, DGBR-HP R02:


If a 400-grain and 370-grain combo works in the .416, it would be good in the .423, and even a bit more stable penetrator because it would be shorter!

Likewise a 350-grain and 325-grain combo.

If just getting to pick one combo to start off with. I would say go with the 350 + 320,
but that 400 + 370 combo would be very cool!
Even 404 Jeffery antique rifles have plenty of case capacity to handle the length,
and .423 bullets of same weight would be shorter than those in .416-caliber ... I say again.

Case mouth to meplat distance, as suggested by Doc M: 0.700"
Sounds good, or whatever is the measure on those .416 bullets' nose length,
then just shorten the distance to that final band at the base to make the same weights with .423 caliber.

I dont have a mic to measure them with but the loaded rounds of 416 B&M I got from Michael use up everybit of the box length wise. They are crimped or pressed- on the top band. Evrn with the blunt profile and using all the box length they sure feed slick. You bullet boys and SSK did one whale of a job.

A four down setup would be neat--mantioned it to Michael there may be options

SSR

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
It would be a fun project to make a 4 down floor plate for the WSM actions. Make these B&Ms a 5 shooter.

Now you are talkin. I have looked at several options and it seems it wont be too hard Weibe,Echols and others have metal that might work. The box doesnt seem to bad, its the follower I am worried about.

SSR

Cross L,
I had just started thinking about a pocket plate, for my M70 "49-bore/.500-caliber/.338 Lapua Magnum of 2010," aka 49-10.
Hard to find.
Maybe I'll just put some 0.10" thick washers on the action screws, between the bottom metal and the stock, so as to be able to close my bolt on three rounds down.
It feeds well, with extra-windowed RUM box, but is just not deep enough.

I cannot get those XRM boxes from Mr. Wiebe for unknown reason.

Mr. Echols has offered to look at the situation and see what can be done.
That probably would involve a magazine box like he makes for the 404 Jeffery, machined and heat treated,
as well as a wider floor plate to cover the wider box, and a Legend stock, McMillan fiberglass, magnum/heavy fill.
I hope it is not too much trouble.

timg953 just listed 125 rd 338 lapua brass in classifieds

SSR

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
It would be a fun project to make a 4 down floor plate for the WSM actions. Make these B&Ms a 5 shooter.

Now you are talkin. I have looked at several options and it seems it wont be too hard Weibe,Echols and others have metal that might work. The box doesnt seem to bad, its the follower I am worried about.

SSR

Cross L,
I had just started thinking about a pocket plate, for my M70 "49-bore/.500-caliber/.338 Lapua Magnum of 2010," aka 49-10.
Hard to find.
Maybe I'll just put some 0.10" thick washers on the action screws, between the bottom metal and the stock, so as to be able to close my bolt on three rounds down.
It feeds well, with extra-windowed RUM box, but is just not deep enough.

I cannot get those XRM boxes from Mr. Wiebe for unknown reason.

Mr. Echols has offered to look at the situation and see what can be done.
That probably would involve a magazine box like he makes for the 404 Jeffery, machined and heat treated,
as well as a wider floor plate to cover the wider box, and a Legend stock, McMillan fiberglass, magnum/heavy fill.
I hope it is not too much trouble.

RIP

On my 416 Classic i believe that any setup that would work with the WSM should work with the B&M. Am I correct in this?

SSR

"RIP

On my 416 Classic i believe that any setup that would work with the WSM should work with the B&M. Am I correct in this?"


Cross L,
Is that a .416 B&M-chambered M70 Classic that you have?
Why yes, it is! You got it from Doc M!
So what is the question?

Oh , you mean the setup for the added round magazines?
Yep, surely you are right.

If it is for a Winchester that handles a 300 WSM cartridge,
then it will do the full line of B&M cartridge "chubbies."
Might need the feeding stroked by Brian Alberts at SSK, however.
Closely gaurded secrets there.

You do need the longer RUM action for ease in converting to .500 MDM,
and for not so easy conversion to "49-10."

Rip

Sorry I wasnt clear---

My question is how difficult is it to get 4 down and retain the great feeding that Brian got on it.

Hey gotta spruce it up somehow

SSR

Cross L,
If only someone made a "pocket plate" to fit the M70 rifles, short and long actions.
Something like the one on this Mauser is all I am asking for:



Maybe a "deep pocket" could be made to work with the standard stock?
Might take deep pockets to get it done.

RIP

I am looking at the XRM box .....Maybe?

SSR

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Cross L,
If only someone made a "pocket plate" to fit the M70 rifles, short and long actions.
Something like the one on this Mauser is all I am asking for:

Try Sunny Hill Enterprises:
http://www.sunny-hill.com/70winchester.html
No pictures but the descriptions appear to meet both your needs...

Mighty fine looking M98 Mauser rifle...just needs a little shorter foreend, shorter and heavier barrel...then it's be perfect.

quote:

If making the 423 Dakota on a Mauser I wonder how a 500 Jeffery floor plate and follower would work. 10.75x68 fans would love the lighter pair of BBW's in .423"]

Absolutely the 500 Jeffery bottom metal and follower should work just fine with anything from the .423 Dakota-Lapua to a .423 built on the full-length .338 Lapua Magnum case. Yep, the lighter weight BBW #13’s in .423 will turn the 10.75x68 rifles into true DG weapons.

quote:

Those WSM boxes on the short Winchester actions, like my Classic .458 B&M, are only 3.040" long inside. Still light years better than the 2.995" of a Ruger or Remington.

Thanks RIP…Michael told me at one time but memory just sucks some times. Guess the Intermediate Length M98’s are light years ahead of the M70 WSM’s with their 3.115”, 3.118”, or 3.232” magazine lengths. LOL

quote:

Thanks for the correction on the Nitro Express bands. I got confused by the old version .500/500-grain "samples galore" that Doc M sent my way. Excellent all.

If there is reason for the slightly wider spaced "NE" 3+1 bands to appeal to antique and double rifle shooters, maybe it would still be a good idea on the heavier .423 CEB bullets for 404 jeffery shooters, as you say?

I believe the NE banding was something that Sam came up with to give the DR folks more seating depth options. Apparently some DRs like the bullets seating deeper while some like the slightly shallower.

quote:

What do you call the "bolt action" 3+1 bands? "B&M 3+1" bands?

That would be the current non-NE banding on the BBW #13 bullets.

RIP and Cross L,
Regarding 4-down in your M70 Long and WSM actions… Another alternative might be Mike Cuypers of Bijou Creek Gunsmithing, http://www.bijoucreek.com/ . Mike built a .500 Jeffery on a M70 action, I believe it was originally chambered in 270 Winchester, for Safari Kid… I believe he built a new box that held 3-down, a new follower and spring, and working on the feed rails. Perhaps you’ll want to contact him with your issues, he might be able to help.

Jack

Yes, the Ruger #1s would do dandy for experimenting with various things that you suggest. I do have several Ruger #1s as well, and do like them a lot, probably my favorite Ruger Rifle period, a #1. But can't get Winchester scratched on it proper, and the weight is an issue, so I am officially a Winchester 1885 fan myself. I should get more work in on my 1885s, but those have been neglected for some time. Have one in 50 B&M with 22 inch barrel, one each in 458 B&M and 416 B&M both with 24 inch barrels. I need to use that barrel length on all these cartridges with the modern loads I have and the new bullets to see how much gain has been made, thus giving some idea about the cartridges full potentials with longer barrels, but has not been something I was interested in particularly. As for myself it would make little difference on the bolt guns I am going to have 18 and 20 inches max, and much prefer the 18 inch versions for the bush! That's the point of the B&M concept anyway.

But, that's off target with your discussion anyway. Really I am not sure I can do anything that has not already been done by others along these lines? As you mentioned Ed Hubel, there is also Jeffe, and a few others that are superb in what we do. We will put some thought into it for the future however.


Dave Bush

Of course I would be happy to test and see what we can come up with on the Belt Mt bullet. When you get them, send a few down to me and I will sort them out for you. In the meantime when I return I will send you a few of the 400 gr BBW#13 Solids to try out in your rifle as well.

Just a small correction, on the test medium, it is wet and soaked, and not dry. Yes, your conclusions are 100% spot on, it is tougher than flesh and penetration is always less in the test medium I use than in flesh. As I have concluded over many years of doing both, test work and field work, conventional expanding bullets penetrate from 80% to 100% more in flesh than test medium, and even more important is that they react 100% the same, you can't tell the difference between a test bullet and flesh bullet except for the residual material left on the bullet from whatever medium it was recovered from! Solids, still maintaining that 30%-35% deeper penetration in animal tissue than the test medium. What I was not sure of is the various NonCons, and how they correlate. It appears to me so far that NonCons penetrate like the Conventional expanding bullets, from 80% to 100% more in flesh than the test medium as well. At least the BBW#13 NonCon. Now the North Fork CPS I suspect is more in line with 100% more penetration in flesh than test medium. But I have to do some more work on those to know for sure. I am lining up field work now for the CPS bullets for next year. And as I have always told you guys, what is successful in the test work, has always been successful in the field, ALWAYS. There has never been a discrepancy between the two, success equals success. A bullet that is a failure in the tests, can have potential failure in the field. One of the big issues is that while a RN solid fails 100% of the time in the test work, it can be successful in the field because of the depth of penetration which many times is just enough to accomplish the mission, but it does suffer great potential to fail in the field if conditions are not just right, as many of you know already. But this discussion has covered many many pages of this thread, and need not be continued. Many of you are here for that very reason alone.

Thanks again, for the kind words too.

I seen your posts down on levers the last week or two, and I wanted to add to some of those, but do not have the capacity here to run several threads at once. In particular the 28000 PSI questions. I will add only that I have been running the Marlins at between 40000 to 45000 PSI for years and years, since the guide gun hit the market and have never ever had an issue with these loads. I have a few of these guns and some have 1000s of rounds through them, one in particular that I used on cape buffalo way back in 2002. Lord I wished that I would have had good bullets back then that we have now for 45/70. I used a Cast Performance 420 at 1900 fps at that time, and it nearly got me in a bind for sure. Had I had the CEB BBW#13 400 Solid and 370 NonCon, North Forks 350 CPS, I would have been in GREAT shape back then with 45/70. Those of course being my personal favorites, but the Buster would have done the job I needed as well.

Late last fall I started doing pressure traces on the 50 B&M Alaskan in a Marlin Action. I had basically neglected doing a lot of work on this cartridge as I have been so tied to the bolt guns. But here Layne Simpson comes along and of course he likes levers, and wanted a couple of articles on the 50 B&M Alaskan. So crap, I have to get busy fast and work on this for him so that he had proper loads and info to present. I favor the M71 in the 50 B&M AK, but most folks will build on the Marlin because of the price difference. The M71 will handle a little more pressure than the Marlin action. But I needed to base everything on the Marlin. Every Marlin is not equal I found out too! HEH.... Some of the original load data I did with the first marlin was overloaded for two other marlins! I had a 500 gr bullet at 1950 fps in the first Marlin and it operated slick as can be and worked perfect. However, when I started doing test work on two other Marlins I found that load would get extremely "Sticky" in the other two Marlins--So it was pressure trace time to find out for sure what was going on here. What I found out with the 50 B&M AK is that 45000 PSI is absolute max pressures, best to stay at 43000 PSI or some less to be sure and have a slight comfort zone, and of course an individual rifle might handle a bit more, and I am sure I have a few of these! But for safe, 43000 PSI is a good mark to stay at. This put my 500 gr Hornady load down to 1850-1875 fps in the 50 B&M AK. I also tested a bunch of other loads and found all the same info, stay under 45000 PSI and things were happy! I don't think you will ever shoot enough loads to wear a Marlin out by staying around 43000 PSI. I have not been able to blow one up or wear one out, and I pretty much for sure shoot more than anyone here, or anyone ever actually. Just a simple fact is all. I have some pressure data on 45/70, but is dated some back to 2006. I always liked RL 7 for the 45/70. To give you one example the 405 Woodleigh Soft with 49/RL 7 would consistently give me 1800 to 1850 fps depending on the rifle, this comes in at 39000 PSI, very very safe in the Marlins. With our lower pressure CEBs and North Forks there are probably some tremendous things that can be accomplished in 45/70 these days. Just FYI.


RIP, Jim and others that need or want .423. I know Jeffe mentioned to me some time ago about getting some of these, Jeffe where are you?

I think ya'll don't worry much about nose to mouth, as that is fairly established and what I have done on all other calibers has done fine so far, about the only concern I have had with Nose to Mouth is on the Super Short B&M series and the WSSM action, and of course the Marlin lever actions, which is short! Can't recall the exact length of the standard nose, but whatever that is will work on most anything we have or will have.

Weight? I think I will do two BBW#13s right now the 400/370 and a 350/325. Unless there are objections or reasons or something, I think this will cover a lot of issues and most any need for BBW#13s in .423? If other needs are required then the North Forks have those covered I think. Between the two CEB and North Fork that should cover any need or use in .423 that I can come up with.

So right now, today, unless I hear objections from the .423 camp, all will be standard nose to mouth I have been using anyway, going with a 400 Solid and 370 NonCon, and a 350 Solid and 325 NonCon. Standard bands are dandy, and yes I have been calling them the B&M bands. The only difference between the Nitro band and the B&M band is the groove distance in between the bands, both are still 3 top and one bottom. The slightly wider distance of the Nitros is for ease of crimping in between is all. One can still crimp if wanted in the B&M bands which are tighter, but not so tight a crimp can't be had easy. Either will work in either type rifle without issue. The wonderful .457 480 gr BBW#13 with Nitro bands works great in my 458 B&M and is a hammer of a bullet. So this is what I will order and have a major run of these made for all you guys and get it established as part of the CEB Line. Unless I hear different.



Now how about this deeper magazine for either one more round or ease of working with three in the WSM actions, and in particular the B&Ms??? After the elephant episode I am looking for at least a 20 round detachable magazine for my rifles!! Full Auto will be fine too! LOL.......... HEH........

No, I like the idea and if you guys think you come up with something that will work, Sunny Hill or Mike Cupers I am game to try something on one of my rifles to see how it does first! What happens with the B&Ms, especially from 458 B&M to 50 B&M is the legs on the follower have to be trimmed down, more in the front than the rear, so that the follower can go all the way down with 3 rds, and the bolt close. It's rather simple and I have done it myself on the grinder--(Very Dangerous for me to do anything like that, but I figure when I screw it up, Brian can fix). The WSMs are different animals when you put that bigger case and bullet up front. So some adjustments are needed above 458. I have not had one yet that was an issue with 3 down and closing the bolt, only a couple that I adjusted myself, one 50 B&M and one 458 B&M. Now this current 500 MDM has a big issue with 3 down and closing the bolt, and I can't for the life of me figure out why I did not sort that out before coming? I suppose I had too much going on, and what I did was load two down for emergency, and when I would get off the truck feet on the ground, just grab a round out of my belt and load. I did this the entire trip without issue, but really had to keep my mind on things too. My normal mode of operation is 3 down, close bolt. When getting feet on the ground, load that top round, end of story. Why I did not grind that follower before leaving I can't fathom? It was just a little too tight for 3 down. That's nuts, I knew what I was doing and this ain't my first rodeo! Oh well. But I did manage without issue. I had shot the hell out of both these guns before leaving, many hundreds of times each getting ready, they worked 100% flawlessly. The 458 B&M did give me one issue in the field and jammed a 450 BBW#13 Solid into the feed ramp. Getting back to camp I lowered the floor plate and the follower spring had got out of position too far forward during recoil somewhere along the line. I took the spring out, gave it a bend downwards, jammed it back into the floor plate grooves tight in the right position, and that took care of all issues and it was back feeding slick as can be. The 500 MDM feed so slick I could not even feel the cartridges going in, and it was very very fast. Both rifles got worked very hard here, same as the range, I do everything I can to break them before a trip and hoping I have no issues in the field. HEH..... Was very pleased and have always been very pleased with them since 2006. But if we can come up with something to drop another round down or something such as that, I am game to be the first goat with one of my rifles to see how it can work.

But Jim or RIP or Cross, if you guys will be so kind as to ask Mike or whoever to think on this, I would appreciate it, as I am going to be covered up for some time and will never get to it.


Well not sure I will reply for a couple of days. It's now 10 am here, and we will be leaving to get on the plane in a few hours. Everyone happy to be coming back home now. It's been a long trip.

Michael

Michael:

Here is the link to the GUN BLAST article with Paco Kelly's report on his test of the Punch Bullet with pictures of the bullet:

http://www.gunblast.com/BeltMtn_PunchBullet.htm

I will call tomorrow and order some and get them down to you.

Love that long flat nose LBT shape of those punch bullets, good design. They would penetrate deeper if they would round the edge of the meplat as Michael and I found in testing the #13s.

Sam

Sam:

I was thinking that the sharp edges on the Punch Bullet might result in more trauma and a larger wound channel than the rounded edges on the Buster. What do you think?

quote:

.416 325 gr BBW#13 Brass NonCon HP, DGBR-HP R02:

Hey, I think I just found my bullet for my 416 Howell Marquart rifle!!!

Dave,

The sharp edge might get you more trauma and I like the sharp edge but in our testing the rounded edge penetrated much better. Just a tiny change to the nose makes a big difference. The bigger the meplat the more trauma but it reduces penetration. Feeding also becomes a concern with sharp edge and large meplat, this is why Michael settled for 68% on bolt gun bullets and 70% on NE bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
Try Sunny Hill Enterprises:
http://www.sunny-hill.com/70winchester.html
No pictures but the descriptions appear to meet both your needs...

Jim,
They do not even have any descriptions there,
just the titles of parts,
and no boxes listed, just trigger guards and floor plate assemblies (I hope) ... that's all I saw for M70s.
They do show "drop" and "stainless" and all the "short" and "long" and "magnum" adjectives in that long list of titles for parts "coming soon."
Maybe they do have the dropped floor plate and trigger guard assembly I am looking for.
Just combine that with my current box,
I need a new stock anyway.
McMillan does make one for M70 that works with Sunny Hill Enterprises, Inc. bottom metal, IIRC
Deserves a phone call.
Thanks.

Doc M,
I already have parts on order from Duane Wiebe.
If he ever sends those XRM boxes and followers (two of each), I will send one of each to you.

So you are in the same boat with your .500 MDM as I am with my 49-10? I can get three in the box too tight to close the bolt also.
Just a pocket plate would do.
I also have D'Arcy Echols looking at three of my 49-10 dummies, delivered to him this past Friday.
His 404 Jeffery box, follower, and floor plate/trigger guard assembly are probably all you need, me too.
I am on it.
Will add Sunny Hill and Bijou Creek to my list too.
Since the B&Ms easily get 3 down that is not so urgent.
I had the same problem with the magazine spring working its way too far forward in the floor plate slots too, with my 49-10.
A drop plate/pocket plate could certainly be better secured from the get go there, than the M70 Classic standard floor plate.
Just JB Weld a flat steel shim as a stop.
And you do have the CEB .423 situation well planned.

RIP

Sounds like the spring slipping is common, mine is doing it also.

On the Wiebe XRM -are the drop in with factory bottom metal and do we know if they fit in the AI stocks?

Says who the B&Ms arent urgent---We mouse gun people need more rounds--

Not much info on the Sunnyhill Web site but its a nice looking piece of metal-

SSR

It never occured to me before but I would bet a bunch that Elmer Keith would have loved this thread, and not be surprised abit.

SSR

Cross L,
The Wiebe XRM boxes are supposed to be drop-ins for the Classic.
Don't know anything else.

Winchester Long Action Bottom Metal Situation: WLABMS
Winchester Short Action Bottom Metal Situation: WSABMS

As MIB Deputy for WLABMS,
I hereby deputize you for the Short Action Situation.

Cross L: Deputy for WSABMS

Report all developments here.

Hi Guys,

I seem to recollect from the Gunsmithing Forum that Duane's XRM box will typically require very slight inletting for properly fit due to its “trapezoid” shape…it’s slightly wider at the front bottom of the box than the front top of the box. Otherwise no issues as it does fit the standard depth M70 stock, whether wood or synthetic.

If memory serves me correctly, Duane has a smaller CNC machine that he does runs of 10 sets on, rather than a normal run of 30 or so sets with one of the larger CNC machine, so…if enough of you guys can decide what you’d like, M70 WSM size action vis-à-vis the standard M70 long action, then you could very likely get Duane to do you a run for your Carolina M70s.

Ron,
Here is one of Duane’s bottom metal fitted with a coffin floorplate assemblies that is cut for the Enfield Action and is sized for the 505 Gibbs Magnum cartridge:

I believe this is what you were wanting for your .500/.338 Lapua on your M70. I think the coffin floorplate can be machined thinner or thicker depending upon how much additional space you require to fit the extra cartridge within the magazine box. I personal think it looks better if the edges are more rounded front and sides but the “boxier” look does grow on you after awhile.

Best thing about the “trapezoid” shaped magazine box and the coffin floorplate assembly is that both are designed to work with a standard depth magazine cut stock rather than requiring a stock specifically cut for a drop magazine floorplate assembly – such as the really nice Mauser’ photograph posted above.

Michael,
Yes I’ll initiate contact with Mike Cuypers, I’ll ask him to read the posts from about page 170 through 173 of the TBP Thread and to chime in if he’d like to get involved with you guys. Me…I don’t own any M70s , only a couple of M77 Ruger SAs SS rifles and a flock of M98 Mauser standard length actions…and coffin flooplates definitely work with M98 Mausers. LOL…

Hum…coffin floorplate assembly for a M77 SA SS…hum…wonder if I could get 3 down using a shortened .423 Dakota-Lapua case???... Most definitely could get a fourth round down using the RSAUM case with a coffin floorplate! Hum…something to think about…yep should outperform the 10.75x68 Mauser cartridge and definitely be a true DG rifle with the upcoming lighter weight CEB BBW #13 bullets!! Dang…now I might have to by 13 boxes of each weight!!...likely catch the comments from wife just as Ron did when Michael’s gift boxes arrived on his doorstep.

Jim RIP,

dont know if anyone interested but there are 125 rds 338 lapua FS in the classifieds.

SSR

I think a four down pot bellied WSM action is a fun project. That or a 10 round PH magazine !

Why not get a FN Patrol rifle with the box mag and make a 20 round box.

Maybe hunt with a belt fed twin jet pack mini gun.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...youtube_gdata_player
.
.
.
.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
I think a four down pot bellied WSM action is a fun project. That or a 10 round PH magazine !

I dont know about African countries but everywhere I have hunted in the States has a magazine limit while hunting game animals--

SSR

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Why not get a FN Patrol rifle with the box mag and make a 20 round box.

You mean something like this Ruger:

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Why not get a FN Patrol rifle with the box mag and make a 20 round box.

You mean something like this Ruger:

That is not a nice looking rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by BigFiveJack:

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Why not get a FN Patrol rifle with the box mag and make a 20 round box.

You mean something like this Ruger:

That is not a nice looking rifle.

It most definitely is not a nice looking rifle… I looks like a useful tool though with its 16.5" barrel, 10-round magazine, and adjustable LOP from 14.25" to 12.75" by removal of the black inserts between the wood stock and the recoil pad.

Y'all,
I shall email Mr. D'Arcy Echols and tell him about the pertinent pages of this thread, ask him to skim to the pertinent box and bottom metal stuff, if he has time some day.

I'll call Duane Wiebe again and Sunny Hill for the first time and see what is shaking.

That is about all I can handle at the moment because I am also calling Ben Syring of Hornady Custom dies to finalize the "12,7x68 49-10" order.

Jim,
You are hereby deputized as MIB Deputy for both WLABMS and WSABMS duties.



This buffalo was killed with one shot, Copper NonCon, light bullet at high velocity for a DGR: GSC HV .510-caliber/450-grain at 2654 fps MV.
That was a "reduced load" in the 500 Mbogo.
Range was about 80 yards.
The GSC HV did not open up! But it still made it through the heart, before going squirrely.
From an on-side shoulder hit, the bullet was found with bent nose, lying in the chest cavity full of blood.

The .500-caliber/460-grain Brass NonCon at 2500 to 2600 fps might be more spectacular.
And certain to open up at any velocity:
Heart and lung grinders!

I think the Winchester M70 with 500 MDM ballistics, and also 49-10 Winchester M70 and 500 AccRel Ruger and standard Mauser,
are the ultimate DGRs, for their power in a relatively light rifle.

quote:

Jim,
You are hereby deputized as MIB Deputy for both WLABMS and WSABMS duties.

10-4...getting ready to send an email to Mike Cuypers.

Also, you have a PM.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:


This buffalo was killed with one shot, Copper NonCon, light bullet at high velocity for a DGR: GSC HV .510-caliber/450-grain at 2654 fps MV.
That was a "reduced load" in the 500 Mbogo.
Range was about 80 yards.
The GSC HV did not open up! But it still made it through the heart, before going squirrely.
From an on-side shoulder hit, the bullet was found with bent nose, lying in the chest cavity full of blood.

The .500-caliber/460-grain Brass NonCon at 2500 to 2600 fps might be more spectacular.
And certain to open up at any velocity:
Heart and lung grinders!

I think the Winchester M70 with 500 MDM ballistics, and also 49-10 Winchester M70 and 500 AccRel Ruger and standard Mauser,
are the ultimate DGRs, for their power in a relatively light rifle.

I read Gerard's post in your hunting report that you were using a very early production bullet...did Gerard send you any of the new bullets to verify that he'd resolved the "failure to open" issue?

And I most definately agree with your last statement.

Jim,
No new GSCs for me.
It is just too difficult to deal with getting bullets from RSA when there are such great bullets on this side of the pond: CEB and North Fork.