quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by drewhenrytnt:

South Texas Sasquatch...go ahead and ask Jeffeosso why I refer to myself as Sasquatch!

he's 6'7, and wears 18s .. i like him around, i feel like texas tiny compared.. 6'4, and 15s

he says 6'3 .. and he is 6'3.. and then some

FREAKS!!

ah, just full grown

Speaking of freaks and monsters....Those non cons will be good for head shots on the soon to be left coast radioactive hippie zombies headed east for new brains to munch on. Get ready for the zombie invasion!
I
Need to head east before I become one and
Beat the crowd. Maybe need to join a Texas anti zombie militia

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by drewhenrytnt:

South Texas Sasquatch...go ahead and ask Jeffeosso why I refer to myself as Sasquatch!

he's 6'7, and wears 18s .. i like him around, i feel like texas tiny compared.. 6'4, and 15s

he says 6'3 .. and he is 6'3.. and then some

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
ah, just full grown

Just good ol' country boys.

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by drewhenrytnt:

South Texas Sasquatch...go ahead and ask Jeffeosso why I refer to myself as Sasquatch!

he's 6'7, and wears 18s .. i like him around, i feel like texas tiny compared.. 6'4, and 15s

he says 6'3 .. and he is 6'3.. and then some

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
ah, just full grown

Just good ol' country boys.

Couple uh femur gnawin' Wookies if ya ask me ..

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:

Couple uh femur gnawin' Wookies if ya ask me ..

HEY! i resemble that remark! cromagnon good.. with salt

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
I am sending my 500 MDM english stock back to Wes tomorrow at AI to have the fore end thinned up! I had them start thinning the fore ends on all recent larger action Winchesters, had all the B&Ms sorted out with that, but had the 500 MDMs with "fat" fore ends. Pauls 500 MDM that is headed to Australia is the best handling big bore I have ever laid hands on, could not take it, sending the stock for thinning.

I will be taking this 500 MDM to RSA and Zim for buffalo and hippo on quota now. Shooting 500 CEB BBW #13 Solids, 2370 fps, 460 BBW#13 NonCons 2530 fps, North Fork 450 Cup Points 2540 fps, and that .800 deep cavity #13 brass NonCon at 2650 fps. I want to also hit some wildebeast as well to see how these do on thin skinned critters.

I have also decided to take my 458 B&M with the English stock. Lot's of bullets to test POI with, but the main bullets will be the 420 CEB BBW#13 NonCon matched with the 450 Solid. I also like that 480 #13 we did for the NE. Nice solid. Then several various other bullets depending on POIs at 50? The 500 MDM and 458 B&M make a good combo, and did in Australia. So I am doing them again--heavy to NonCons!

Michael

Well if this was a “vote” kind of thing…then I’d have proffered the 500 MDM/416 B&M combo for your RSA/ZIM hunt. After shooting the 416 B&M, the 458 B&M, and the 50 B&M…the 458 B&M was kind of…well…not really needed! But then I do know some folks just love the .458 caliber.

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
I am pretty much more on a test mission than a "hunt" per say. Testing our new NonCons and solids, by North Fork and CEB. Showing the potential of the 500 MDM as well. I need to do some African work with both the bullets, and the 500 MDM and get that experience out of the way. Much as many of my other rifles and cartridges. Next year, going back to Australia, I am taking a 50 B&M Super Short! So I am going back in the other direction, even smaller than the 50 B&M! HEH........ But now with superior bullet tech from CEB and North Fork, the Super Short series entered a new category, now it's up to me to prove that as well! So this gives me a few more good test hunts over the next few years in which to do research! I figure I have much work to accomplish.

Michael

If I might proffer a dual rifle combo for your 2011 Aussie hunt…how about the 50 B&M Super Short backed up by the 458 B&M Super Short. I believe both would put some hurt on those Asian buffalo… Just a thought…

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:

Couple uh femur gnawin' Wookies if ya ask me ..

HEY! i resemble that remark! cromagnon good.. with salt

You two should invite Canuck, Canuck32, & Gatehouse down for a spring break Monster Bash!! I used to work with a guy who was 6'-7" x 350. He had a lovely Serbian accent at about 25hz too. At 5-11 and 170, I'm still meaner than all y'all combined! Now back to your regularly scheduled program.

HEHE



I,m 5'7 and shoot a 13.25 LOP

Will just duck---

SSR

CAPOWARD,

I did go with the 416 love it so far. If money and life permits the next interesting B&M will be the 458 SS. Its just cuter than a wolf cub.

SSR

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
You two should invite Canuck, Canuck32, & Gatehouse down for a spring break Monster Bash!! I used to work with a guy who was 6'-7" x 350. He had a lovely Serbian accent at about 25hz too. At 5-11 and 170, I'm still meaner than all y'all combined! Now back to your regularly scheduled program.

Sheesh!
If these guys met my family (who start eyeing the UPS guy when someone exceeds 5'5") it would be like Gulliver's travels.

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:
HEHE



I,m 5'7 and shoot a 13.25 LOP

Will just duck---

SSR

Yeah, and I have a 74.5" reach too ... a 14.5"+ LOP is a good start for me.

quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
You two should invite Canuck, Canuck32, & Gatehouse down for a spring break Monster Bash!! I used to work with a guy who was 6'-7" x 350. He had a lovely Serbian accent at about 25hz too. At 5-11 and 170, I'm still meaner than all y'all combined! Now back to your regularly scheduled program.

Sheesh!
If these guys met my family (who start eyeing the UPS guy when someone exceeds 5'5") it would be like Gulliver's travels.

Dunno why any of em need rifles, they could just wrastle the game down and choke em out with a fig-4.

I reckon this is why GOD invented Col Colt.



SSR

quote:

Well if this was a “vote” kind of thing…then I’d have proffered the 500 MDM/416 B&M combo for your RSA/ZIM hunt. After shooting the 416 B&M, the 458 B&M, and the 50 B&M…the 458 B&M was kind of…well…not really needed! But then I do know some folks just love the .458 caliber.

Let's see, we have CrossL and JHauldy out there with 416 B&Ms, John also has 2 50 Super Shorts, and a 375 B&M. I will let Cross and John do the 416 work, and also have a friend and work buddy with a 416 B&M as well. We will get some good data from those guys this year. MY boys hammered some game a couple of years ago with the 416 and 350 Barnes TSX--could not ask for much better, except from a NonCon. I shot a cow buffalo few years ago with a 350 Swift A and the 416 B&M. Did the job, did not go about 15 yds, flop. I think the new CEB 325 NonCon will be "Bang/Flop" much closer to POI!

Also next year Australia trip might entail a new 475 B&M? I will have loads, data, and bullets by then sorted out easy. Might be my combo, 475 B&M and 50 Super Short? Of course both boys are going next year, family affair and all. I might have one of them work the 475 B&M or 50 Super Short, and I might like to get some things done with the 9.3 B&M as well? Those 3 just might be the ticket for Australia 2012!

CrossL, go to the website and download the load data for the 458 B&M Super Short! It's simple pdf document, some good info on the little gun. Don't forget, I have it's twin in hand right now, the 475 Super Short--but no dies yet. Sam and I might work on that some tomorrow if we get time, but I think we pretty much have a full day of things slated.

North Fork is working on an entire new .474 caliber line of bullets for the new 475 B&M and the 475 B&M Super Short. Solids/Cup Points (EXPANDING CPS).

M

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:
I reckon this is why GOD invented Col Colt.



SSR

lol.. little man syndrome?
i ate right growing up .. hell, i raised cattle, hogs, and chickens .. drank milk rather than coke or tea, and saddled my own horses since i was 6 ..

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
i raised cattle, hogs, and chickens .. drank milk rather than coke or tea, and saddled my own horses since i was 6 ..

Hey we did exactly the same thing when I was growing up in Brooklyn, NY!

quote:

Of course both boys are going next year, family affair and all. I might have one of them work the 475 B&M or 50 Super Short, and I might like to get some things done with the 9.3 B&M as well? Those 3 just might be the ticket for Australia 2012!

Have fun and be safe... Sounds like a good ticket.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:
I reckon this is why GOD invented Col Colt.



SSR

lol.. little man syndrome?
i ate right growing up .. hell, i raised cattle, hogs, and chickens .. drank milk rather than coke or tea, and saddled my own horses since i was 6 ..

should have been drinkin beer milks bad for growin boys

If your that damn big you should have been carriein the horse.



SSR

Michael,

the fun of the Super Shorts to me is as a superb Truck gun. Living on a ranch i carry a gun of somesort everyday. The fun of the 458 is that its tiny and mighty. the 475 intrigues me also-just something a bit differnt

but we have such a huge assorment of bullets for a fungun in 458.

Business will happen and then we can have fun

So many guns-so little time

SSR

quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
i raised cattle, hogs, and chickens .. drank milk rather than coke or tea, and saddled my own horses since i was 6 ..

Hey we did exactly the same thing when I was growing up in Brooklyn, NY!

Problem is in Brooklyn you boys "Ate the Horses" rode the cows, drank liquor and beer rather than milk and coke, chased the pigs, and lord knows what you did to the chickens? I am just thankful that "sheep" were not mentioned!



HEH HEH LOL...............

M

CrossL

Soon as I can free up a Super Short I will send it to you to play with some. They are incredible no doubt. After the first week of the 458 Super Short coming in, I put 4 Marlin Guide guns over in the ""Build a 50 B&M AK out of if someone wants one rack"", as I will never have a use for a 45/70 again. If I do a lever, it's a .500--the little 458 B&M is a trip, tiny, light, easy to shoot and does the 45/70 better by about a 100-150 fps when comparing it's 16 inch barrel to a 45/70 18 inch barrel. Not too shabby! Drop to a 300-330 gr bullet the super short begins to be rather business like! Able to take 300 Barnes TSX to over 2400 fps! 325 North Forks to 2250-2300 fps! Going up to 400s however I can't seem to get past that 1950 fps mark without running into pressures, I had hoped for 2000, oh well.

Can't explain to you how they carry, feel and handle, has to be experienced I think.

You are correct about the bullets, not much out there in .474 that really suits the Super Short. I think there is a 400 Hornady that is decent. Not sure of much else that I saw that intrigues me a lot. But I knew that going into the project, and that's why I have North Fork and CEB sorting that out now! With those two then that will lend credence to both the .474s! Without North Fork and CEB bullets, the 475 B&Ms would come up a bit short.
.474 caliber has always been some limited because of not so many different 474 caliber cartridges. Most of which have been designed to handle 500 gr bullets.

Michael

quote:

not mentioned!

... at least not on this forum.

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:

quote:

not mentioned!

... at least not on this forum.

I suppose it's a good thing my interests are rather narrow, as I rarely venture from this thread, much less the big bore forum! There are some things I would rather not know about I think!



LOL.........

Well damn, it's after 8 pm here, and just now getting dark-gonna go to roost now, see you guys tomorrow!
M

Michael

"I am pretty much more on a test mission than a "hunt" per say. Testing our new NonCons and solids, by North Fork and CEB. Showing the potential of the 500 MDM as well. I need to do some African work with both the bullets, and the 500 MDM and get that experience out of the way. Much as many of my other rifles and cartridges. Next year, going back to Australia, I am taking a 50 B&M Super Short! So I am going back in the other direction, even smaller than the 50 B&M! HEH........ But now with superior bullet tech from CEB and North Fork, the Super Short series entered a new category, now it's up to me to prove that as well! So this gives me a few more good test hunts over the next few years in which to do research! I figure I have much work to accomplish."

I hope my comment doesn't ruin your reputation, but I'll go ahead anyway; the field test hunts actually make sense. So does the direction of your developments. Anchor the middle with the 50 B&M and expand in both directions - 500 MDM one way and the 50 B&M SS in the other. Of course that means more experiments and more hunts, But, what the heck, someone has to do it.

As for the bullets, what's in the knowledge base so far is the ability to make good first approximations of designs and then refine the designs through testing.

All this is to make sure what works in the test range, works in the field.

Surely your wife must be aware of all the sacrifices you're making in the cause of advancing science?

quote:

Surely your wife must be aware of all the sacrifices you're making in the cause of advancing science? Wink

Oh make no mistake, she is well aware! I even get to hear about it from time to time!

It goes something like the beating the dead horse thing, and I am the dead horse!

quote:

Perhaps as time permits… … you could send some 460gr CEB BBW #13 Brass HP NonCon’s down range in 100fps (e.g., 1900fps, 1800fps, 1700fps, 1600fps, 1500fps, etc…) declining impact velocity so we could identify the approximate distance the petals stop shearing??? Would be a lot of work but would be of value as well.

Damn, Michael! We're starting to act like wives with all the jobs we have for you to do! "Take out the trash! Mow the lawn! Shoot bullets in 100 fps increments so I can see the results! Oh! And go to the store! I'm out of tampons!"





(Just joshing, Jim. )

quote:

Originally posted by someoldguy:

quote:

Perhaps as time permits… … you could send some 460gr CEB BBW #13 Brass HP NonCon’s down range in 100fps (e.g., 1900fps, 1800fps, 1700fps, 1600fps, 1500fps, etc…) declining impact velocity so we could identify the approximate distance the petals stop shearing??? Would be a lot of work but would be of value as well.

Damn, Michael! We're starting to act like wives with all the jobs we have for you to do! "Take out the trash! Mow the lawn! Shoot bullets in 100 fps increments so I can see the results! Oh! And go to the store! I'm out of tampons!"





(Just joshing, Jim. )

No problem Glenn. It’s darn easy to think of all these things to do when you live on the opposite coast; just lucky that Michael even considers such nonsense.

“Tampons”… Is that the latest filler wad???

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

quote:

Surely your wife must be aware of all the sacrifices you're making in the cause of advancing science? Wink

Oh make no mistake, she is well aware! I even get to hear about it from time to time!

It goes something like the beating the dead horse thing, and I am the dead horse!

At least she is the petite, shy girlish type that couldnt hurt Macho Michael.



SSR

quote:

“Tampons”… Is that the latest filler wad???

Wonder what caliber a tampon would work for?
Of course, with some women it would undoubtedly be for a really big bore.

I have what I think is going to be a very interesting terminal report for you this morning. Some 2-3 weeks ago CCMDoc sent his Sabatti in 450/400 to me for some test work with the 400 CEB BBW #13 Solids. Our goals were to of course check for stability of the 400 #13, penetration depth and normal terminal test work. Well I went some steps further as it began to interest me in seeing how the CEBs shot at 50 yds, and regulation, as I had never done that, so it peaked my interest for a time, but it soon wore me down for sure.

Now, several things to report on this rifle--others, can't say, but this particular one. One of the big questions it seems with the Sabatti is how they tend to regulate by filing the inside of the crown, and that stability thereafter. Something about this just does not seem right to me. The crown is very important for stability of the bullet in my opinion. While playing with many many different loads, powders, and bullets for the Sabatti there was a trend that continued throughout every single test--Right barrel would shoot slightly left of target, left barrel 4-6 inches to the right and most of the time low regardless of bullet, Woodleighs, CEBs, Swifts, everything. And in each test I saw some instability at 50 yds with the left barrel with all the bullets, not quite hitting square!

Now during the tests we discussed having the scope on, and how this can change the regulation of a double. As consistent as this rifle was shooting, I had my doubts to this, but what the hell do I know? Next to nothing about these things! Sam was here on Tuesday and we put the gun through the paces from about 10 am or so to well after 5 pm just about as hard as we could go. Now contrary to my teasing CCMDoc when I put the scope on, I really did not use JB Weld for the mount, I did not even loctite the mount screws! Not my rifle, I did not want to do anything ugly! During Sam and I test work Tuesday, the scope worked it's way loose, rounds were flying everywhere! HEH HEH....... We completed terminals, removed the scope and started shooting irons. Sam did all this work, as he is a mighty fine iron shooter. As for the different bullets and different loads, there was zero difference in regulation. Right barrel still shot slightly left, Left Barrel shot WAY right. Exactly the same as with the scope. Difference was only that the irons had not been sighted in, and everything was 6-7 inches high at 50 yds, that was all. On this gun, no regulation issues with a scope.

Now, this is not to say the rifle did not shoot with anything. It shot the Hornady Factory loads very very well. The 400 DGX would group 1.5 to 2 inches Right/Left at 50 yds, and the Hornady DGS about the same, and in the same place as the DGX with both irons and scope. So this gun would be ready to go with the Hornady Factory loads, no doubt.

I have something here that I think will be very revealing just taken this morning for this post.

As you see in the first photo the egg shaped crown of the left barrel.




However on this photo, taken a bit closer, you can actually see where some of the rifling has been removed completely by this process on the left side, left barrel.




I can't see how this is a good thing?

Michael

Stability with Solids?

As I suspected the 400 CEB BBW#13 was able to for the most part, self stabilize itself. Remember, it's a 67% meplat, great nose profile, and at times in the past we have seen bullets with this size meplat self stabilize themselves with no engagement of the rifling at all!

But even with the BBW#13 we can see some differences between the left barrel and right barrel.

This would tend to show some instability with the left side. And somewhere we even managed to loose one!

have 400 gr 416s been tried at that approximate velocity? Should be close enough in diameter to be comprable so we could tell if the instability was effecting penetration.

SSR

With the Factory Hornady and it's very small meplat, the instability started to show between the left and right barrels.

Now, I must say at this point, the Hornady DGS done FAR better than I expected of it. In some cases we got deep penetration far beyond where I expected. It barely even has a meplat as well, but this bullet did extremely well in my opinion.

On the left side, left barrel we shot 3 rds of the 400 Hornady DGS. Two went completely unstable at 30 inches, hit the bottom of the box, one had to have scrapped a nail in the bottom which damaged it. One of the 3 managed somehow to stabilize, penetrated extremely deep into the second box, but I could only give it 65 inches of "Straight" penetration. It went further, but was not quite stabilized. Without doubt, 2 out of 3 were totally unstable.

The right barrel showed far more stability. One of the DGS from the right barrel started moving up and left until it left the box at around 64 inches. It started loosing stability at 50 inches and migrating. We lost that one. In fact of the 5 fired we seemed to have lost two of them.



Sam says these bullets have a LOT OF BEARING SURFACE--they do.




I don't think they would do to well in a "Barrel Strain" test. And no, I am not hooking up a strain gage to see.

LOL

I have pretty much had my fill of double rifles for awhile!

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:
have 400 gr 416s been tried at that approximate velocity? Should be close enough in diameter to be comprable so we could tell if the instability was effecting penetration.

SSR

Not at that low of a velocity, no.









But you can sure see where twist rates start to come into effect. Our 416 B&Ms have 1:14 twist rates---But I would still use the BBW#13 400 without hesitation.

M

I have more to come on the 450/400, but have to be out for a short time, so I will return!

M

Michael,

We did do terminals on this .409 bullet in my 450-400 at about 2150 fps. I can't remember what it did. As far as the bearing surface on the Hornaday bullet I will say this. IT ain't going down the barrels of my 450-400. Modern gun maybe.

Sam

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Michael,

We did do terminals on this .409 bullet in my 450-400 at about 2150 fps. I can't remember what it did. As far as the bearing surface on the Hornaday bullet I will say this. IT ain't going down the barrels of my 450-400. Modern gun maybe.

Sam

Sam

Yes, we did get a bit more stability in your rifle than the Sabatti with the BBW#13s.



M

Below you will see the Factory 400 Hornady DGX.

It did a relatively good job, and looks to be a pretty fair buffalo bullet. I think the reason you see slightly less penetration on the one is because as I recall it was in the middle of our test medium. My middle is pretty tough, as many of the catalogs overlap in this area. Oh yes, it's not fair, but that is just the way it is. I find bullets in the middle never penetrate as deep as on each side proper. I think the 23 inches is more in line with normal, and that is for sure a buffalo bullet proper.