Michael

RE the 458 B&M SS- I know you reload 45 ACP have you ever stuck a 180 or 200 gr hollow point on the 458 SS? might make a great coon armadillo and coyote gun( along with 2 legged varmits)

SSR

Michael

This is Cross L's idea of varmints! What are you two up to?

Wait a minute!
Are those bullets suitable for dangerous white chicks?

White Chicks! Most "Dangerous" game on the planet!

quote:

RE the 458 B&M SS- I know you reload 45 ACP have you ever stuck a 180 or 200 gr hollow point on the 458 SS? might make a great coon armadillo and coyote gun( along with 2 legged varmits)

You know something, we must try that and see what happens. Accuracy might suffer pretty bad? Might try some .454s as well, come out a bit larger. I will see what I have and come up with something.

HEH


Michael

DGR*

*(Dangerous Girl Rifle)

Fellow takes his life in his hands when he tangles with White chicks-Esp in the bush

SSR

As if chicks of any other flavor are any less dangerous ...

...redheads...

Carnac the Magnificant says the answers are:

50 B&M and 9.3 B&M; bullets from CEB and NF.

Use the land or bore diameter measurement that isn't 50 as the identifier, stamp the rifle and shells accordingly.

The questions are:

What is the Ideal Two Gun Hunting Battery?

How do you handle the 50 caliber problem?

quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:
As if chicks of any other flavor are any less dangerous ...

Most definately the truth!!

Chicks and bullets can be the death of you.

Yep.
Also, if any NonCon brass hollowpoint will not lose its nose on impact with water, then it will not do so on impact with flesh.
At 2000 fps the water is much harder on the bullet nose than is flesh.
Agent J's .395/310-gr VHX would routinely lose all petals when hitting water at 1600fps, 2100 fps, or 2600 fps.
Shooting 5-gallon sealed buckets of water laid end-to-end, the petals came off in the first bucket,
and the cylindrical shank continued straight to the bottom of the third bucket, leaving a dent there.
Ancient history.

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:
As if chicks of any other flavor are any less dangerous ...

Most definately the truth!!

quote:

Originally posted by I Bin Therbefor:
Carnac the Magnificant says the answers are:

50 B&M and 9.3 B&M; bullets from CEB and NF.

Use the land or bore diameter measurement that isn't 50 as the identifier, stamp the rifle and shells accordingly.

The questions are:

What is the Ideal Two Gun Hunting Battery?

How do you handle the 50 caliber problem?

IBT

Well honestly since 2006 taking the 50 B&M to a few countries in Africa, and a friend having his in Australia, there just have not been any real problems. The name itself (never thought about that when I named it) is too close to 50 BMG---once I send photos of the cartridge next to a real 50 BMG and photos of the rifle, then all is well from that point and no problems. In the future? I can't predict. Who can, and how do you plan for that? I get more concerned about the head stamp thing these days than anything. In the beginning I had some of the rifles marked on the barrel 300RUM/50B&M. Knowing I would have that brass in the beginning, I was hoping to get by, never had to use that contingency, so I stopped doing that, and on many of the B&Ms have head stamped brass now. And have to get some for 9.3 and the new 475s coming.

You are correct, never really thought about it, but the 50 B&M and the 9.3 B&M would cover about anything one would ever want to do on the planet and do a good job at it, in small packages easy to tote around and fast to handle. Two good choices. I have what is supposed to be a very nice bastogne blank--I can't tell much about wood until it's cut, but I have sent one of the new SC Winchesters to SSK to do a new 9.3 for me, and will use one of the 3 bastogne blanks I have with AI.
Also hoping that my 500 MDM brass from Horneber turns out as good as I think it is, then I will be contracting with Dieter to handle the 9.3 and 475 brass soon as I get and inspect the 500 MDM. I think I will also get some runs of Super Short brass done as well in all 3 of those. Then we will be covered with the brass issues that are looking like they are going to be more of an issue in the future, than they have been in the past.

quote:

At 2000 fps the water is much harder on the bullet nose than is flesh.
Agent J's .395/310-gr VHX would routinely lose all petals when hitting water at 1600fps, 2100 fps, or 2600 fps.

RIP
After working with different NonCons from CEB and Lehigh I have learned quickly all NonCons are not created equal! And have yet to find really any that I would consider failures with these. #13 NonCons are a bit different because of the nose profile. Many cases the cavity goes below the point, and the base of the blades is in the thickest part of the bullet nose. This can change dynamics of how it shears and even if it shears at some velocity depending on the thickness. The Lehighs tend to be thinner blades and shear, but the solid broken beer bottle has yet to penetrate as deep as the #13s. Shear velocity is important as well. If I can get the #13s to shear down into 1900 fps + or minus, then I am satisfied with that, as for DG that velocity will almost always be maintained with most DG cartridges to 50-75 yds, DG ranges. So it really depends on the targeted cartridge as well. Say we were working with a 458 caliber for 45/70. Then we would need shear even down in the 1400 fps + or minus range. On all new 458s coming from CEB I think we will have shear down into the 1800 fps range, maybe less. Same with the new 9.3s, 375s and .409s.

How they shear is another question of mine as well. Shear even or shear uneven? Not really sure it makes a big difference in trauma transferred to target as long as penetration is not compromised to a point. I will be taking some of those "experimental Lion bullets" that I had done in .500 caliber with a .800 deep cavity, shears like a grenade, uneven, large chunks flying in god knows what direction. Will be interesting to study the trauma and reactions of thin skinned critters when hit with that I think.

I think there will be a great deal learned from this years field work not only from myself, but many others which I hope that will report their findings back here as well. This year I have decided to change my normal load which is always heavy to solids. I of course like to shoot, and I don't conserve much ammo when shooting critters, shoot'em till they don't move anymore, then shoot'em again! HEH..... All shots after 1 have been solids, almost regardless of game afoot. I decided yesterday that instead of heavy load out of solids, I would be the other direction this trip, heavy to NonCons, figuring about 1/3 of my ammo load out to be solids, 2/3s NonCons.

Looking forward to a good year with these NonCons. Speaking of which--how about a head count, who is using what NonCons and on what, and when?????? Speak up guys! Need to know these things.

Michael

quote:

Speaking of which--how about a head count, who is using what NonCons and on what, and when?????? Speak up guys! Need to know these things.

Planning to use the BBW's on buffalo in April/May out of my 470 Nitro pending final testing.

Planning on limpopo in November for buf and quota filling.

Will be using 416 B&M w/ 325 gr NONCON and 325 gr NF SS.

Feral cattle and- hopefully -Water buff, pigs and of course deer season all on-line for tune-up. I generally pick one rifle to do most of my hunting in a year and this year its the 416.

I think the NONCON will be fun on pigs as I can pick my shot to test pen and petal seperation.

SSR

The .620 CEB#13 will have its chance on Namibian elephant in November 2011.

The .410 Non-Cons may get their chance on plains game at that time as well.

I am sending my 500 MDM english stock back to Wes tomorrow at AI to have the fore end thinned up! I had them start thinning the fore ends on all recent larger action Winchesters, had all the B&Ms sorted out with that, but had the 500 MDMs with "fat" fore ends. Pauls 500 MDM that is headed to Australia is the best handling big bore I have ever laid hands on, could not take it, sending the stock for thinning.

I will be taking this 500 MDM to RSA and Zim for buffalo and hippo on quota now. Shooting 500 CEB BBW #13 Solids, 2370 fps, 460 BBW#13 NonCons 2530 fps, North Fork 450 Cup Points 2540 fps, and that .800 deep cavity #13 brass NonCon at 2650 fps. I want to also hit some wildebeast as well to see how these do on thin skinned critters.

I have also decided to take my 458 B&M with the English stock. Lot's of bullets to test POI with, but the main bullets will be the 420 CEB BBW#13 NonCon matched with the 450 Solid. I also like that 480 #13 we did for the NE. Nice solid. Then several various other bullets depending on POIs at 50? The 500 MDM and 458 B&M make a good combo, and did in Australia. So I am doing them again--heavy to NonCons!

Michael

Michael,

Glad you are taking the 458, I am interested in field tests on it. You have convinced me on the AI stocks also, reckon I need to find a youth one for me.

Is it wrong to hope a buddy doesnt sell hunts so I can buy left over qouta late?

SSR

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
I am sending my 500 MDM english stock back to Wes tomorrow at AI to have the fore end thinned up! I had them start thinning the fore ends on all recent larger action Winchesters, had all the B&Ms sorted out with that, but had the 500 MDMs with "fat" fore ends. Pauls 500 MDM that is headed to Australia is the best handling big bore I have ever laid hands on, could not take it, sending the stock for thinning.

I will be taking this 500 MDM to RSA and Zim for buffalo and hippo on quota now. Shooting 500 CEB BBW #13 Solids, 2370 fps, 460 BBW#13 NonCons 2530 fps, North Fork 450 Cup Points 2540 fps, and that .800 deep cavity #13 brass NonCon at 2650 fps. I want to also hit some wildebeast as well to see how these do on thin skinned critters.

I have also decided to take my 458 B&M with the English stock. Lot's of bullets to test POI with, but the main bullets will be the 420 CEB BBW#13 NonCon matched with the 450 Solid. I also like that 480 #13 we did for the NE. Nice solid. Then several various other bullets depending on POIs at 50? The 500 MDM and 458 B&M make a good combo, and did in Australia. So I am doing them again--heavy to NonCons!

Michael

Alright Michael, what's with the 500 MDM? Where's the carbine like, quick handling 50 B&M with an 18 inch barrel?
Have to been seduced by the dark side - the biggest cartridge that can fit in a Winchester 70 action?

Once my 50 MDM is completed, received, and properly sighted in I figure to put away one, maybe two nice sized pigs here in Kalifornia; 1st with the 460gr CEB BBW #13 Brass HP NonCon, if I do the 2nd I’ll likely use the 395 gr CEB BBW #13 Copper HP NonCon. Not sure if I’ll get to do deer this fall or not…but if so then I’ll likely use the 395 gr CEB BBW #13 Copper HP NonCon for that – hopefully the synthetic tip inserts will be available (black of course).

quote:

Speaking of which--how about a head count, who is using what NonCons and on what, and when?????? Speak up guys! Need to know these things.

And I'm gonna be plinking empty bean cans off a rotten stump with a .45 Colt. But with flatnose bullets most likely.
Anyway I'll likely be wearing my safari hat, so I'll be with y'all in spirit!

CrossL

Yes, for what I am doing with the test work, it makes more sense for me to take a 458 than another .500 caliber. Get to test a larger variety of bullets that way. And of course I believe the 458 B&M to be very capable of doing anything I want or need to do as well.

Left over quota? No, not wrong, everyone needs a "Cleanup" man! Otherwise all that left over quota goes to waste! I too am a "cleanup" man! Right now have 7 buff on quota, 1 bull, 6 cows, a hippo, and of course assorted other thin skinned. Now hoping that by the time I arrive that at least a couple more bulls and cows are left over, along with a few hippos as well!

Cleanup Duty!



IBT

Of course you are correct! The 500 MDM was on paper for two years before I finally decided I needed a new project. The 500 MDM was going back where I came from--bigger. Finally I decided to go with it, but it was not going to be 458 Lott sized rifle, so I went with what I thought was a compromise barrel length, 21 inches. It was only last fall when I actually realized the "Potential" of this cartridge/rifle. Jesus, the thing is an efficiency beast it seems, able to sling 500s at 2600, 450s at 2750 and even a 375 at over 3000 and stay under pressure. Way more than one needs for sure. The 500 MDM put on such a show in 2009 in Australia with those buffalo, I have to see if I can explode buffalo like prairie dogs now in Africa! In 2009 I did not realize the potential of the cartridge, and the new bullets from CEB and North Fork. Now by no stretch do I intend to use that full potential as that is just not required to do the job. I have slowed the 500 CEB down to 2370 fps, more than enough. I am keeping the 460 NonCon and 450 North Fork above the 2500 fps mark, as I intend to test the potential of the bullet to transfer trauma to buffalo! NonCons love velocity!

For sure, the 50 B&M is the cartridge/rifle combo that I was looking for some years ago in my quest to have short, handy, fast, light, easy to carry, and still have enough power to be a stopping rifle! The 50 B&M has filled that quest with great results, and it has been there done that, and proven itself many times, and continues to do so.

I am pretty much more on a test mission than a "hunt" per say. Testing our new NonCons and solids, by North Fork and CEB. Showing the potential of the 500 MDM as well. I need to do some African work with both the bullets, and the 500 MDM and get that experience out of the way. Much as many of my other rifles and cartridges. Next year, going back to Australia, I am taking a 50 B&M Super Short! So I am going back in the other direction, even smaller than the 50 B&M! HEH........ But now with superior bullet tech from CEB and North Fork, the Super Short series entered a new category, now it's up to me to prove that as well! So this gives me a few more good test hunts over the next few years in which to do research! I figure I have much work to accomplish.

Now we all know that folks love big rifles, big bores, and high velocity! I won't have anything but a Winchester M70, so the 500 MDM in a Winchester is about as good as it gets, add the CEBs and North Forks to that equation, I figure it's a big hammer. I am looking to see if I can explode buffalo like prairie dogs! HEH HEH......Having a vision!


Mike

Better get busy! April/May is coming on FAST! I still have plenty of .474s left--Let me know what you need!

Cross

The 325 .416 CEB is a better bullet than the Lehigh 330 that Sam's buddy used last november for those two buffalo he downed. More penetration and stable. The 330 lehigh put two in the dirt quickly, recall those comments? The 325 CEB will do the same! And we know the 325 North Fork is superb in the conventional role! Great combo, but don't forget a few of those 350 CEB #13s, for insurance!

CCMDoc

Hope to be finished with the terminals on the 450/400 this week, and rifle on the way back to you next week! I of course have been showing off and handing out samples of the mighty .620 CEB BBW#13 900 gr! But on the other hand as well, I tell folks that it's for shooting rats and such next to my Sample 1 inch 4000 gr CEB BBW#13 that is for real critters! HEH HEH........


Capo and Glenn

That 395 is nice for pig work I think. Also may have some new ones soon designed for the super shorts, might be nice as well. Black tipped #13 HPs! Yep!

45 Colt is grand, my only revolver cartridge! Go ahead and use a few FULL bean cans! What a mess!

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
CCMDoc

Hope to be finished with the terminals on the 450/400 this week, and rifle on the way back to you next week! I of course have been showing off and handing out samples of the mighty .620 CEB BBW#13 900 gr! But on the other hand as well, I tell folks that it's for shooting rats and such next to my Sample 1 inch 4000 gr CEB BBW#13 that is for real critters! HEH HEH........

Michael

Michael458,
Save a few CEBs and factory stuff to see how it shoots sans scope and mount.

As far as your Saturn V vs. my bottle rocket - well my usual response to such observations is:
"Mine may be smaller, but it's thinner too and fizzles out faster!"

CCMDoc

HEH HEH........SaturnV vs Bottle Rocket! LOL.....Good. It is funny, had some friends over yesterday, handing out the .620 900s and they are impressive. But once I tell them that is for shooting rats and such, and open my hand with that big 4000 gr BBW#13--eyes pop open, bottom jaw drops, and I can't help but laugh!

Oh my yes, the 450/400 is getting a workout tomorrow, Sam is showing up and we are going to put it through the ringer tomorrow. Terminals as is, then scope comes off, and we start shooting the irons. HAVE PLENTY of CEBs to shoot, and still will have plenty of Hornady Factory you sent, minus a few for the terminals.

Between Sam and myself, it's gonna get worked over tomorrow. I was going to hit it today, but with Sam coming I will wait until he arrives as well.

Who knows what surprise he and I can come up with together?

Michael

Michael,

Will have BBW#13 350s when I go overseas, just dont see much here stateside that would even slow them down. Not to worry ,I will get some penetration samples done with them on something.

Forensic shooting - Olymic sport someday??

SSR

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:


Looking forward to a good year with these NonCons. Speaking of which--how about a head count, who is using what NonCons and on what, and when?????? Speak up guys! Need to know these things.

Michael

I'm planning to use my 375 Ruger in September for Cape Buff and Eland with the 300 NonCons. That is if the problem with the petals not shearing is resolved in time If that doesn't work out, I'll probably go with good old unmentionable TSX's. Regardless of which bullet I end up using I'll try to post some sort of report on the results.

Hugh

The current 375 non cons should work perfect in a 375 Ruger. Any velocity above 2200 fps will work I think. I'm sure Michael will jump in and give the details.

Hugh

The Current 375 NonCon should not be an issue until the "Impact" velocity has slowed to probably less than 2100-2200 fps! Which would be probably "Best Guess" 200 yd impact or so?

It's an easy fix however to get shearing at lower velocity, and already discussed with Dan the blade thickness and the hole diameter. Just this morning I ordered a new run of 420 gr 458s, 375 gr .409s, and 255 gr 9.3s. Which is most of the fix. Still out is the 375s and the 450 .457 NE NonCon. I believe the rest are good to go at some lower velocity, 1800-1900 fps or maybe even less.

On most all these calibers and bullets to date I am not that concerned over much lower velocity shears than 1900 fps impact or so because of the cartridges and rifles they are designed for. Most importantly, they are designed for DG ranges--50 yds and closer. Not 200 yd shearing. Now yes, we would like a good shear for the 9.3s and the 375s out into some of these longer ranges, no doubt as these are what I would call mediums, and or "Compromise" DG cartridges. Can do the job of a medium, eland and such, and in a pinch do well on buffalo. So we need that shear at lower velocity, but these also start at much higher velocity as well, 2500 fps or more.

It's a simple matter of placing a new order--Which I will do now for the 375s as well. I don't shoot 375, so I am only going to get 250 or 5 boxes of these in--these are 50 per box, same as the 9.3s. New order, thinner blades and wider cavity on the way!..


Michael



Order placed now for new 375 NonCons.

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Jim

FYI--460 CEB BBW #13 NonCon HP .500 caliber--shears and operates perfect at 1950 fps impact velocity.

Did it this morning.

Looks good. Oh and penetrates to 24 inches.

M

Ahhhhhhhhhh…how’d I miss this one??? Sometimes it pays to reread a thread! Very good!!!

Ok brain cycling here…yes plenty of smoke coming out not yet noticeable to wife yet though…Just quickly ran the numbers in QL/QuickTARGET and with your 2577 fps loading in the 500 MDM you have a PBR of 163yds @ velocity of 1800 fps (4848 ft-lbs); 134yd impact equates to 1950 fps (5263 ft-lbs). I suppose if the petals don’t shear at 163yds then perhaps they’ll act like a FN solid and give maximum penetration for those ass-tube shoots (when necessary).

I have a good feeling though that the 460gr CEB BBW #13 Brass HP NonCon .500 caliber bullet is going to shed the petals at 1800 fps as well, perhaps even as low as 1700 fps which equates to 200yd impact (4667 ft-lbs)

Perhaps as time permits… … you could send some 460gr CEB BBW #13 Brass HP NonCon’s down range in 100fps (e.g., 1900fps, 1800fps, 1700fps, 1600fps, 1500fps, etc…) declining impact velocity so we could identify the approximate distance the petals stop shearing??? Would be a lot of work but would be of value as well.

I’m thinking that the CEB BBW #13 Brass HP NonCon’s should successfully shear the petals at least down to 1500 fps. Why 1500 fps?...fairly simple…I shot Michael’s beautiful walnut stocked 50 B&M this past summer with iron sights at a gong from 200yds…yes it was a big gong but hey it was with iron sights!!! Anyway, the sighting shot was slightly high (shot flatter with those Hornaday’ 500gr bullnose soft points) then then five straight shots (including a reload) in the upper left corner area of the gong…A scope would have eliminated all issues and would have given a much smaller grouping. Anyway, the 50 B&M is a 200yd cartridge with 500gr bullnose bullets so should easily be a 200yd cartridge (or slightly further) with the CEB BBW #13 Brass HP NonCon’s!!!!

So…what does everyone think? Is it worth the extra testing?

Definitely not the brightest cookie in the jar…

Re-thought this after I’d already posted and a few things dawned on me… 1) Expansion with retention of petals at lower velocity is not a failure, 2) at what velocity point does shear stop/expansion only starts, and finally, 3) at what velocity point does zero expansion occur.

So the test, if conducted, would be velocity in reverse – 1500fps low impact velocity 1st and then move up in 100 fps increments up to 1900 fps. Does this make more sense?

Of course its worth the additional testing

(especially seeing as how it will be Michael and not use who does the real work)


We do appreciate you Doc M even when we pick on ya.

SSR

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Capo and Glenn

That 395 is nice for pig work I think. Also may have some new ones soon designed for the super shorts, might be nice as well. Black tipped #13 HPs! Yep!

Michael

Michael,

Just checked and the length of the 350gr SST/Leigh Brass HP NonCon and the 395gr CEB BBW #13 Copper HP NonCon is 0.002” – so – how ‘bout just having the CEB BBW #13 HP NonCon made in Brass (not sure if you’d need a deeper HP as well)? Should work just fine in the Super Short.

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:
Of course its worth the additional testing

(especially seeing as how it will be Michael and not use who does the real work)


We do appreciate you Doc M even when we pick on ya.

SSR

Yeah Yeah--I hear you!

I have to figure some low velocity loads for the 50 B&M--have not worked in that direction before???? I used 66/H-322 for that 1950 fps impact load--I guess 60 grs ought to do some less I suppose!

I don't mind looking at that.



JIM

By the way--Minox arrived at around 11 am my time here. Actually not a bad looking scope! Weight is good, slightly longer than the Leupolds. Clear, like the focus adjustment a lot--much like the Nikon. Turrent knobs a little large. Eye relief is good--Field of View (EXTREMELY IMPORTANT TO ME) is excellent. How does M figure Field OF View? I have a full mount lion 10 yds from the lab door--If I can see most of that lion at 10 yds I am very happy with field of view!

M

Jim

All the new CEB BBWs for the Super Shorts will be in brass. That 395 and 425 Copper #13s was designed primary for the lever guns. Thus it has a shorter nose to mouth than many of the others. Got to work through the damned short Marlins!

M

quote:

Originally posted by Michael458:
#13 NonCons are a bit different because of the nose profile. Many cases the cavity goes below the point shank/ogive intersection, and the base of the blades is in the thickest part of the bullet nose. This can change dynamics of how it shears and even if it shears at some velocity depending on the thickness. The Lehighs tend to be thinner blades and shear, but the solid broken beer bottle has yet to penetrate as deep as the #13s. Shear velocity is important as well. If I can get the #13s to shear down into 1900 fps + or minus, then I am satisfied with that, as for DG that velocity will almost always be maintained with most DG cartridges to 50-75 yds, DG ranges. So it really depends on the targeted cartridge as well. Say we were working with a 458 caliber for 45/70. Then we would need shear even down in the 1400 fps + or minus range. On all new 458s coming from CEB I think we will have shear down into the 1800 fps range, maybe less. Same with the new 9.3s, 375s and .409s.

Michael

Ok this is making sense but raises a question. What would likely happen if the .458 caliber 45/70 NonCon bullet was fired from…say a Lott…at let’s say a Cape/Asian buffalo? Would we still have good penetration from the bladeless shank? Would the petal shards still penetrate deeply and cause additional internal trauma?

Reason I ask is that I’m sure someone will try it…best to know before it happens.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael458:
JIM

By the way--Minox arrived at around 11 am my time here. Actually not a bad looking scope! Weight is good, slightly longer than the Leupolds. Clear, like the focus adjustment a lot--much like the Nikon. Turrent knobs a little large. Eye relief is good--Field of View (EXTREMELY IMPORTANT TO ME) is excellent. How does M figure Field OF View? I have a full mount lion 10 yds from the lab door--If I can see most of that lion at 10 yds I am very happy with field of view!

M

Best of my recollection the Parallax is set at 100yds (which I though was good for a DG scope) and (had to look this up) the Field of View at 100yds at 1.5x is 59.6ft and at 8x is 11.8ft.

For comparison, Leupold’s VX-3 1.5-5 20x FoV is 100yds is 68ft (@1.5x), the VX-3 1.75-6 32x FoV at 100yds is 51.4ft (@1.75x), and the VX-3 2.5-8 36x FoV at 100yds is 37.5ft (@ 2.5x) – hope this helps.

Here’s the Minox Technical Data page:
http://www.minox.com/index.php?id=3975&L=1

quote:

Yeah Yeah--I hear you!

I have to figure some low velocity loads for the 50 B&M--have not worked in that direction before???? I used 66/H-322 for that 1950 fps impact load--I guess 60 grs ought to do some less I suppose!

I don't mind looking at that.

:LOL: Looks like you’re gonna have a dirty barrel and may need to use backer rod (dirty range) with one loading. Here you go and you decide – from QL (so just a ballpark suggestion):
H322: 63.0gr – 102.9% fill – 93.34% powder burn – MV: 1923fps – 22yd Impact Velocity: 1850fps
H322: 60.0gr – 98.0% fill – 90.83% powder burn – MV: 1824fps – 22yd Impact Velocity: 1750fps
IMR 3031: 59gr – 100.1% fill – 86.74% powder burn – MV: 1707fps – 22yd Impact Velocity: 1650fps
IMR 3031: 56gr – 95.0% fill – 83.03% powder burn – MV: 1605fps – 22yd Impact Velocity: 1550fps
IMR 3031: 53gr – 89.9% fill – 78.95% powder burn – MV: 1505fps – 22yd Impact Velocity: 1450fps

I’m pretty sure that the actual MV and impact velocities will be slight higher as QL does have some issues with straight-sided cases and I don’t quite have the CEB BBW #13 bullets correctly profiled in QL...yet...

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Jim

All the new CEB BBWs for the Super Shorts will be in brass. That 395 and 425 Copper #13s was designed primary for the lever guns. Thus it has a shorter nose to mouth than many of the others. Got to work through the damned short Marlins!

M

Don’t forget to compute the additional bullet length with the Black Tip insert if you’re planning on moving the bands for a SS HP NonCon in brass – this bullet most definitely will be used with the tip insert (along with the 395gr Copper HP NonCon) for deer, elk, etc…heck likely for varmint shooting as well!

Ok…guess I’m the only one here…so guess I’ll do something productive and go pull up some flooring…

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Jim

All the new CEB BBWs for the Super Shorts will be in brass. That 395 and 425 Copper #13s was designed primary for the lever guns. Thus it has a shorter nose to mouth than many of the others. Got to work through the damned short Marlins!

M

Don’t forget to compute the additional bullet length with the Black Tip insert if you’re planning on moving the bands for a SS HP NonCon in brass – this bullet most definitely will be used with the tip insert (along with the 395gr Copper HP NonCon) for deer, elk, etc…heck likely for varmint shooting as well!

The tips should work great on the lighter bullets and they won't run a risk of instability.

quote:

Originally posted by drewhenrytnt:

South Texas Sasquatch...go ahead and ask Jeffeosso why I refer to myself as Sasquatch!

he's 6'7, and wears 18s .. i like him around, i feel like texas tiny compared.. 6'4, and 15s

he says 6'3 .. and he is 6'3.. and then some