quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:

I think Barnes should add another canalure or one could be put on the 330 Barnes and they would sell a lot more!

Well that would be the most simple solution. I can't believe I did not look at or worry about that. I suppose I do not have 45/70 lever guns much on my mind the last 5 yrs in favor of a proper caliber now, .500! LOL.

But fear not, that dog ain't dead just yet. After next week I might look at some options on that! Not sure what, but I don't give up this easy.

As for the North Fork CPS's. I don't think the mush will sheer with velocity, might just peel back on itself with high velocity is about all, and of course doing so penetration would increase. I am more interested in how low can we go?

Yes, they are extremely versatile and add a lot for the caliber and cartridges they can be used in. I am sure whatever other test work I can come up with will be successful, even a T'Rex test. With that being so, I might put some in the field in the 458 B&M next year!

M

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Maybe for something for Michael to look at. Why does the 9.3 Woodleigh 320 gain solid penetrate straighter than the larger calibers? It would be interesting to see if the smaller diameter calibers do better in his media than the larger calibers. If he could test the 9.3 320 grain. .375 350 grain, .416 450 grain, .458 500 grain and .474 500 grain in his media. I wonder if we would see a deteriorating performance as caliber increases. Would the diffence in performance be curvileanear or straight line?
465H&H

465HH

Well we have already done most all of that. 9.3 320 has been tested several times, always deep and straight. Why? Well has to be the nose profile, as we stated way back when, it is not the same as the larger calibers. Neither is the 310 gr 358 Woodleigh. It's the same as the 9.3.

I can't attest to anything in 375, I have never even looked at or seen one, same with the 416 450.

Of course the 500 458 and the 500 474 have been tested extensively, always the same result. I see no reason to revisit that to be honest.

The smaller calibers, 9.3 and 358 penetrate straight and deep every time, without veering off course. SD has nothing to do with it, it's nose profile. Both the smaller caliber bullets are vastly different on the nose than the larger cousins.

M

Agreed! All you need to do is to test the 416 450 grain and 375 350 grain. I should have been more clear. Then look at the depth of penetration for each as well as stability. Also I have several of the old profile (very blunt) .468 dia Woodleigh siolids if you can find a 465 Cal rifle to test them in.

465H&H

465HH

Well not a bad idea, but there are just a couple of issues. I don't have a 375, I do have Sam's 375 B&M that I might could use? I am pretty sure that a 416 450 would not stabilize in my 1:14 twist barrels. I don't even know anyone with a 465 caliber rifle, other than you of course.

Michael

How about if I sell you one?

465H&H

1:14 .416 would stablize ... that's rigby spec

Boom Stick, Michael458...

Hey guys, been gone for a while...looks like I missed quite a bit. As for the CPS, I like the idea. The idea of a "smart" bullet is awesome! Great penetration, great shock, great trauma An expanding FN...that is why GS has been doing it for over a decade. I've been bringing up the expanding FN for some time now, just glad it's getting some attention. Boomy, recall my report on the 45-70 work I did back in 2002? The 300, 350, 400 and 450 FN's. This is what drew me to GS in the first place, and haven't been without a GS bullet since. I know we have talked about this many times, and this is not the 45-70 thread, but it makes for a damn fine rifle. Drops plains game on the spot, can take on a Buff without blinking, light and handy, quick to reload and fast on target...it's a beautiful thing.

Chalk one up for the band of 45-70ers.

the old 416 Rigby spec was 16.5" twist, though nowadays 14" is recommended. I'd go 12" if I wanted to shoot 400 grain monometals.

However,the big thing is meplat. Michael shot some solids with a large meplat that went thru as slugs with virtually no twist or spin. If the meplat is big enough, maybe those heavy 450 grains in 416 would work. Maybe even the 416 in my 16.5" twist CZ550. The CZs are a great workingman's rifle, but the twist in the 416 was not a good choice by CZ.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
1:14 .416 would stablize ... that's rigby spec

Jeffe

At 1:14 the 416 B&M is having a hard time with some of the long mono 400s. The 416 Remington, and I pushed it hard, did a good job with the Barnes 400. But 465HH is talking 450 Woodleighs. All terminal now, not airborne stabilization. I know the 416 B&M can't stabilize for terminals, I doubt the Remington can either. And since I have never and don't have any 400s or 450 Woodleighs I am not sure of the nose profile exactly, and would bet it's pretty round, unlike the 9.3 and 358 versions. So I think I already know what it is going to do anyway! Faster twist would help, but......


465HH

Well I appreciate the offer, but I already have more to work with than I can keep up with, if I add some other oddball caliber I might loose track of everything then? And I think those are doubles? So you see I don't qualify to own a double, I don't have a double license?


Extreme

Oh yes, go off a week or so and this thread keeps growing, get lost after a week!

Now there are wonderful things about the 45/70s, and todays bullets are far better than 10 yrs ago. But the most wonderful thing about the 45/70s is that you can turn them into .500s!


Tanzan

I am not sure, have not messed with 416 woodleigh RN, but I am sure it comes up short on meplat and can't stabilize. But, I might be wrong too, but have serious doubts.

If I ever build another 416 B&M it will be a 1:12 twist, they are available without special order.

Michael

Michael458:

With all the posting and work-ups you are doing as well as the PM traffic just wanted to remind you to see if a Lee Factory Crimp die can put enough pressure on the Barnes 330 Banded Solid in the 45-70 to create a crimp grove. If so, they should be good to go.

Received my shipment of them last week and will try to get some loaded next week when I get back to my place. Even if they end up too long to feed in Marlins I know I won't have any problem in my Siamese Mauser 45-70 or the Remington SPR DBL rifle. Have pretty much decided that if I can get the Rem DBL to regulate with them with a max load it will be on this Aug's trip to Namibia. If nothing else to try to get some frontal shots on (through) a couple of Gemsbok just to see what they do and maybe a Kudu, Eland or Hartebeest.

I guess I have become kind of a Barnes guy. I took my 45-70 out to the range yesterday with some rounds loaded with Barnes 300 grain TSX FB bullets designed for that cartridge. Totally unscientific. Just shooting some bowling pins. These bullet would blow through the bowling pins and blow chucks of wood out the back. Dug some out of the bank. I was close, velocity was pretty high but while they were mangled, they will still intact. Like most Barnes bullets, tremendous weight retention. This would indeed be a good bullet for thin skinned game when shooting your 45-70. I intend to try the 400 grain Barnes "buster" bullet as well. This may just be advertising hype but here is what Barnes says about the buster bullet on their web site:

"Looking for a deep penetrating, non-expanding bullet that maximizes weight retention and bone-crushing results in lever action rifles? Look no further than the Buster Bullets. Similiar to the Barnes Banded Solid bullets, the Buster bullet is a non-expanding bullet that delivers massive results due to its thick copper jacket and heavy lead core. This will also increase the amount of power and penetration needed to take down feral hogs, bears and dangerous African game."

They show a picture of Coni Brooks with a huge hog with the following quote:

"Coni Brooks, VP of Sales & Marketing, used a 45/70 Marlin 1895 Guide Gun, 400 grain Buster, 650 lb. hog taken in May, 2009. The bullet penetrated completely “from stem to stern”."

Again, maybe just hype, but I have been so impressed with their latest iteration of the TSX bullet that I can't pass up a chance to try that 400 grain buster bullet. I have a whole bunch of old phone books to use as a test medium. When I get everything put together and have some idea on velocity of the buster bullets, I'll give them a go. I also really want to test the 250 Barnes banded banded solids to see if the results in my 9.3X62 are any different than Michaels. I'll keep you posted.

M3taco

I have a cannelure tool here, it might be possible I can put a cannelure on the 330, I am just not sure or not. That is one of the things I am looking at with it, along with a couple of other options to see about a solution. However I am not so sure that will work as it is under diameter above the bands?



Dave

We did some good tests with the Buster in 45/70 and 458 B&M some pages ago. I gave a quick look, could not find them of course. Have you seen those? I am posting some now.

What we found is meplat is a bit small. To give good decent stabilization we need faster twist rates, 1:14 and 1:12 is good. The 45/70s with 1:18 and 1:20 just did not quite stabilize it for optimum. But remember, the test medium is dense, and tough on bullet stabilization, more so than animal tissue. Personally I would use the Buster on normal critters, bears, hogs, antelope, moose and not have an issue, they would do the job. Might have some problems with south bound shots on a north bound moose as that is a long ways for one to go. But normal use I think they would be fine. In 1:14 they do really good.

One thing, so far I have not had really adequate accuracy, but I have only tried accuracy a couple of times too! So I have put little effort into that.





Before someone asks, why so variable in penetration. They are not stable, therefore cannot be consistent! 1:14 only begins to stabilize, 1:12 or 1:10 would be even more so. In the 458 B&M at basically the same velocity as the 45/70s we see straight line penetration increased by a good bit over the 1:20 and 1:18.

The superior meplat size of the 330 gr Barnes Banded shows it's stuff in the 1885 45/70!



And with some added velocity and faster twist of the 458 B&M it just gets a bit better!


Michael

Thanks Michael.

What I need to do is start at page one of this thread and get an index together about what bullets have been tested and at what page. If I can find the time, I will try and get that done.

I think your test results show that the Barnes buster bullet is indeed a pretty good bullet for the old 45-70. Maybe not as good as that North Fork Cup Point but pretty good.

I went to the North Fork page and noticed that after being fired, the 325 grain cup point bullets expanded just like the 350 grain flat point bullets. In the 45-70 I am not sure what the advantage of the cup points would be.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
Thanks Michael.

What I need to do is start at page one of this thread and get an index together about what bullets have been tested and at what page. If I can find the time, I will try and get that done.

I think your test results show that the Barnes buster bullet is indeed a pretty good bullet for the old 45-70. Maybe not as good as that North Fork Cup Point but pretty good.

I went to the North Fork page and noticed that after being fired, the 325 grain cup point bullets expanded just like the 350 grain flat point bullets. In the 45-70 I am not sure what the advantage of the cup points would be.

Dave

Great idea, about an index on this thread. It would take some time, but worth the effort in the long run. If you don't get it done, then remind me after I return next week and I will try and start putting one together too.

As for the Buster--Two things stands out as important factors, meplat is too small to stabilize itself, therefore twist rate is important for it to stabilize proper. The other thing to consider, the test is worst case scenario (not counting T'Rex tests which would be hard on it), in animal tissue "Rule of Thumb" with solids, add 30-35% penetration in animal tissue. So in the Marlin you can look for about 35 to say 40 inches of penetration as a "rule of thumb". So as stated before, I would use it for a lot of hunting scenarios without a problem. It's not an elephant bullet or hippo bullet however, and of course it's not intended for such to begin with.

As for the North Forks in 45/70. We will know more once I get to testing them in 45/70s, and I will test in the marlin and the 1885, but the advantage will be penetration. I am quite sure they will be stable, but we will see how they do at those velocities. Then we can make a better judgement. I can see quite a bit of use for them in 45/70 I think.

Michael

Gentlemen I’m lever action illiterate…so forgive me if this sounds stupid. Do the Marlin and Winchester lever actions headspace off the extractor or do they headspace off the case mouth? If headspace is off the case mouth…then just forget that I even mentioned the following. If headspace if off the extractor, why not just trim the case slightly shorter so that the 330gr BND SLD will properly seat while keeping COAL short enough to work from the magazine?

The rim. . . . . .

quote:

Originally posted by DWright:
The rim. . . . . .

Boy that sure shows me where my brain was.

So ok, headspace is off the rim so why not just shorten the case sufficiently so that the 330 gr BND SLD will properly seat and the cartridge will feed from the magazine? Seems like a simple solution to the issue.

What about the crimp die. . . . . ? Now it won't reach. . . . . . . .

It might. I know I have a little bit of room for it. Good idea.

One more last test today and then I am off for next week!

Today, 9.3 B&M and the 250 North Fork.

The Rifle!


The Cartridge.


The Test


The Bullet


Michael

Not much to say about that performance, it speaks for itself and is in line with most other premium bullets.

When I get back I am putting in another North Fork order for some 9.3 solids.

Dave was good enough to donate some 9.3 286 Woodleigh FMJs and 250 Barnes Banded. Dave, received, and the 286 Woodleigh nose profile looks the same as the 320, so it should be very good. Bad news, the 250 Barnes nose profile looks exactly like the 286 profile that is so bad!

I think the 286s will be winners, and I think the North Fork Solids will be fantastic in 9.3.

I may look around North Fork and see what else I can come up with too, can't really just order 1 box of bullets, what sort of fun would that be?

Other things in the coming weeks, more North Fork CPS tests, I have some new design .500s some that Sam made, some that Corbin had made to put to the test. There will be some Woodleigh Hydros coming in soon, will test several calibers, 9.3-416-458 maybe some others. Mike already gave the 470s a workout so I won't go there. Probably lot's of other work to do over the summer too, I just can't think of all right now. We will have much done so many of you can make some good choices for this falls hunting seasons!

Michael

I leave for a while and come back to find this thread on the page 2.


Tested some Barnes Banded solids today. 2414 FPS from my CZ 550 .375 H&H (its ok Michael at least it is not PF.)

Well my 72" box of wet newspaper and two 3/4" pieces of plywood and the 2 by 6 at the back of the box could not stop one. A couple of more pieces of plywood, still shot through, jammed another 2 by 6 at the back of the box and finally stopped one. Bullet looked very good.

Shot one deviated less than 1/2", shot two about 1 1/2" and shot 3 about 1"; all across the 72" length of the box.

It may just be be adequate as a backup for my .470 Nitro.

Mike

That's pretty good performance for a small bore gun! CZ? Hmmmm, really need to do something to get you in some proper rifles! I will continue to work on that. Yes, I saw our thread had dropped over to 2, maybe for the first time, I don't recall it dropping from page 1? Anyway, of course I have been out for a week but headed home today. Couple of days at work to catch up, and we have plenty of test work over the next few weeks.

How big is the meplat on the 375 Barnes? Must be much better than the 9.3.

I also would bet that any deviation came in the last few inches of total penetration.

Good work, thanks.


Michael

quote:

How big is the meplat on the 375 Barnes? Must be much better than the 9.3.

Bullet Diameter: .37425 (Like that digital mic)
Meplat (ink Stamped) .240
Percentage 64.13%

The deviation was really over the length of the box. At worse it was 1/4" per foot and probably can attributed to alignment. I will re-laser rthe box to my shooting position.

Mike

Almost 65% meplat, a magic number! For the life of me I can't figure out why Barnes has a different meplat size for the 9.3 at 46-47% of caliber? Makes no sense at all? I still have not measured the 250 338s Banded yet, but I bet it's around 65% also.

Michael

That 9,3 B&M is putting up serious numbers!
What it seems you have done is make a 9,3x66 power gun in a short action. Bravo!

Boomy

Yes, the 9.3 B&M has exceeded expectations as well. It is very strong with 250 gr bullets. I will never have a need for another 338 or 358 for medium work. Double up especially considering the size of the 9.3 B&Ms home, a 20 inch 7 lb Winchester M70.

M

Michael said,
"I will never have a need for another 338 or 358 for medium work. Double up especially considering the size of the 9.3 B&Ms home, a 20 inch 7 lb Winchester M70. "

Fair enough. An awesome little African combo.

But some of us will have a need for 338's. My current 338s are Tikkas and weigh in at 6 1/2 pound, 7 1/4 with scope, shooting tight little groups. My son calls one his 'Wand', Because he can move it around almost like a pistol (at least compared to the 416rigby), and it works 'magic'.

Anyway, the military agrees that a 338 is a pretty nice diameter, or they wouldn't have been accomplices to the 338 Lapua. The 338 diameter allows a flat hunting bullet to be loaded, like the 225 grain TTSX at 2800fps in the WinMag (favorably tested and reported on this thread) and on up over 3000-3100 for the Lapua class (with .514 BC!). Of course, Africa is flat land, mostly, and yes, in savanna forest you don't really need to take shots at 300-400 yards, but the opportunities do present themelves from time to time and it's nice to have a gun that can do that without a second thought. E.g., I even like the 185 grain TTSX in 338. I just bought and tested some last month for 'lower 48 USA' hunting in Kali-forn-yah. 3050+fps, decent sectional density with a 'mono', and a .430 BC. Jack O'C and Elmer K both, couldn't be happier. 3" max height at 150, -3.5" low at 300, -15" low at 400, etc.) Meanwhile, it's Tanzan land next on the horizon, Summer-Fall, where 225TTSX in 338 and 350s TSX/BS in 416 are our 'bread and butter' choices. Meat on table.

Tanzan

I think maybe I didn't state that quite proper and maybe what I said was taken as a slam against a 338 or 358 caliber, which it was not meant that way at all.

For me, me only, the 9.3 B&M represents an extension of the B&M family, and the B&Ms cannot use a smaller diameter 338 or 358 because of the length of the bullets and fit in the magazine. 9.3 is as small as I can go with that case and keep things in the magazine proper, or there for sure would be a 338 and 358. In many cases 338 and 358 are better mediums, with more range, more velocity, more everything including gun to get there. With the 20 inch barrel on the 9.3 and being a WSM action it comes in nearly 5 inches shorter than most standard 24 inch 338s and 358s. So weight might be matched, mine currently has a Claro Walnut AI stock, stick an Ultimate stock on it and weight is reduced to less than 6.5 lbs.

So no slam at all on the 338s or 358s, it's just I can't make a B&M out of those calibers, so FOR ME my new medium will be the 9.3 B&M over all the rest of the 338s and 358s I have, which is rather quite a few, several 338 Winchesters, 2 338 WSMs, 1 338 Ultra, 1 338/06, 1 358 Winchester, 1 35 Whelen, 2 358 STAs, 1 358 Ultra. And probably something else I forgot. All taken a back seat to the new 9.3 B&M, not because of performance, just because it's a B&M, and a smaller rifle over all than any of the others.

Anything I can do with my 9.3, you most certainly can do with the 338 and 358s. In fact I ended up having to shoot both my muskox with my buddies 338 Winchester, which I had loaded the ammo for, a 225 Barnes TSX at 2850 fps and although I normally shoot more than once, I never really even got a chance to as both animals were down and out with one shot each easy. So you will get no quarrel from me about how good and how effect the 338s and 358s are! Lord knows I have taken lot's of critters with 338 and 358 with excellent results! One of my most favorite rifles on the planet used to be a Winchester M70 in 358 STA, which I have taken over 30 heads of plains game with from impala to eland and everything in between. It's a hammer!

Michael

Guys I did not get caught up to do any shooting last week, sorry! But hopefully this week I am going to get some in. Some of this might not be so interesting to some of you, .500 caliber solids, some that Sam has made and sent that I am way behind schedule on, some that Corbin had a new CNC guy make that I am behind on.


And then Sam sent some more wild looking solids to play with recently I don't have photos of yet. Don't knock it, till we see it, remember how funny looking the new Woodleigh is, and how good it performs! LOL.

Then below is one that Corbin had designed that is loaded and ready to test. This guy is waiting on results, and any modifications to the design if any, so I have to get this done this week. Has a great 67% meplat in .500 caliber, I know how it is going to penetrate, but will the lesser bearing surface offer more velocity with the same load as my standard 510 gr solids??? Maybe??? We will see, I have loads in the 500 MDM to test, probably coming tomorrow on the velocity tests.


Then more North Fork tests with the CPS. I have reduced velocity loads in the 458 B&M and it's 1:14 twist, and will be loading some 45/70 to test in a guide gun with it's 1:18 or 1:20 twist?? 1:18 I think!

I also plan on hot loading some of the 450 North Fork CPS in the 458 Lotts to see how it does at higher velocity.

This week!

Michael

Michael,

Those solids Corbin's guy made look great. It will be interesting to see how they all perform.
It any show promise I can make several the same so you can do more testing. Those other solids I sent you may have to be single loaded as they probably won't feed because of large nose.

Sam

Hey Sam

Yes, the other solids were the ones I got last week from you, after I returned from FL. By the way, thanks! I have been so busy this past week catching up have not had time for anything until doing some loading yesterday. Those are some big flat noses! I will photograph before loading so everyone can see the entire bullet. Very excellent bands on those too by the way! I can't see how it would be possible for them to feed in a bolt gun. Even a Winchester. We will see. I hope to do those this week too.

Yes, Corbin's guy did a great job on those. I have some loaded to test velocity first--any differences between bands is what I am looking at first. Then later in the week penetration tests, but I know what they are going to do in that anyway.

Corbins guy has the right equipment, and I think we will start using some of those bullets. Prices I think are going to fall in line, maybe even a little better than normal. Will have to learn more about it as we go along.

Michael

Doc M said:
"I have reduced velocity loads in the 458 B&M and it's 1:14 twist, and will be loading some 45/70 to test in a guide gun with it's 1:18 or 1:20 twist?? 1:18 I think!"


Herr Professor M:
If you are wondering about the twist on the Marlin Guide Gun in 45/70, Achtung!
It is 1:20", and that is why it will make a good comparison to the 1:10" .458 B&M to see if twist has any effects on terminal ballistics. Achtung!
Now back to the show:

Michael,

Yeah I made those wadcutter solids just to see what they do. If they work good they might be a single or double barrel bullet, wasn't really thinking of a bolt gun for them. Should make a good hole though.

Sam

No testing this past week, next week is doubtful also. This past Monday I got a brand new 7MM.

A 7MM kidney stone that is, still have not passed it and probably will go through another ESL treatment next Monday. Man it is a PITA or something close to it.

I have relegated myself to the Africa Hunting forum to discuss Russell Boots and such.

Michael.

No chance for you to do more testing of the 577 caliber??? Maybe some 750 grs Barnes Banded at 2100 fps and preferably a bit higher If just someone could visit Michael and bring their 577 Trex or Nyati. Even a Ruger No.1 in 577 NE will do nicely - it can be hotrodded to 2250 fps I think

Michael - what about building yourself a 577 MDM





All the best

Ulrik

I have been trying to get him to do this! A 500 Jeffery cut off at the shoulder and stuffed with a 585 bullet should shoehorn in single stack in a Winchester WSM action.

quote:

Originally posted by buffalo:
Michael.

No chance for you to do more testing of the 577 caliber??? Maybe some 750 grs Barnes Banded at 2100 fps and preferably a bit higher If just someone could visit Michael and bring their 577 Trex or Nyati. Even a Ruger No.1 in 577 NE will do nicely - it can be hotrodded to 2250 fps I think

Michael - what about building yourself a 577 MDM





All the best

Ulrik

quote:

Originally posted by Mike70560:
No testing this past week, next week is doubtful also. This past Monday I got a brand new 7MM.

A 7MM kidney stone that is, still have not passed it and probably will go through another ESL treatment next Monday. Man it is a PITA or something close to it.

I have relegated myself to the Africa Hunting forum to discuss Russell Boots and such.

Mike

Man, don't be such a sissy over such a little thing like a 7mm pellet! Minor caliber, small bore! But I can understand, as a little over a year ago one morning I had one drop down, and it got stuck in the worst place you can ever imagine! I knew something bad had happened, could hardly dribble things away. Did tests, but looked in all the wrong places for this rock! I had a very strong feeling where it was, but no one would actually believe me, not even the docs. So for two weeks I carried this thing, sitting down like a girl to pee, it was awful, until one morning finally it passed out and I found it! It was INSTANT relief after a full two weeks! I grabbed this thing and put the calipers on it----full big bore at .400 caliber! I am telling the truth, full .400 caliber rock! I kept it, and showed everyone, the doc wanted to run it thru the lab to see what it was made of, so I don't have it anymore.

So don't sweat that little minor caliber thing, it will sort out! Whew! Maybe sometimes big bores are just not the right thing to wish for?

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
…
Then below is one that Corbin had designed that is loaded and ready to test. This guy is waiting on results, and any modifications to the design if any, so I have to get this done this week. Has a great 67% meplat in .500 caliber, I know how it is going to penetrate, but will the lesser bearing surface offer more velocity with the same load as my standard 510 gr solids??? Maybe??? We will see, I have loads in the 500 MDM to test, probably coming tomorrow on the velocity tests.


This week!

Michael

Michael,

Corbin’s bullet looks good; it’ll definitely make different seating depths easier. The only change that I would recommend is to groove the wide base band…then it’ll be usable in those thin barrel DRs. Oh yeah…they’ve not tumbled to the true .500 caliber yet.

RIP
Thanks, I can't ever remember if the guides in 45/70 are 1:18 or 1:20. Yes, you will be able to get some extreme comparisons with the 458 B&M with that 1:10. Anyone want to make some small wagers as to what twist will work the best with marginal meplat sizes??? HEH! Talked to Brian Friday, all 475 B&Ms and Super Shorts will have 1:10 PacNor's as standard barrels! Thanks for reminding me about the guides!

Sam

They will penetrate, that's what they will do, straight too for sure. But I also wonder about too much of a good thing? If possibly that will reduce penetration? I think so! I will photo and measure meplats before shooting too.

By the way, very nice work! Yes, we will get together on the meplat size test soon as you finish up your busy season I have some good ideas and design for you to work from.

Thanks again!


Buffalo

Sam has his 577 double, but it will be later after his busy season before he gets back. I have often thought about a 577 in a Ruger #1 just to play with from time to time. After playing with Sams double in 577 I really liked it a lot. JD and Brian can do a conversion easy and have done them many times on a #1. Hmmmm?

And yes Boomy has been after me doing a crazy one on a WSM. Maybe not so crazy. Maybe look at a RUM based Winchester M70???? Maybe a two shooter? Maybe I try to find myself a couple of pieces of 500 Jeff somewhere to look at? Hmmm?

Michael