quote:

Originally posted by K Evans:

quote:

Originally posted by AilsaWheels:
I inadvertently had the last sentence hidden in my first post and corrected it in the second post. All due to poor composition by an old brain.

Yes, I think you are reading it correctly, govt. officials words, not mine.
If memory serves me correctly, the minutes fro Parliament indicated that the holders of the concession in question were notified that their lease would end on November 4, 2022 (I think the date is correct, will try again to find those minutes).

Thanks for the clarification. Also appreciate the effort you put in to find out the specifics from the Zambian government.

quote:

Originally posted by AilsaWheels:

quote:

Originally posted by K Evans:
Months ago I found minutes from Zambian Parliament that would shed light on when concession owners were made aware that concessions were unavailable; I can’t get that website to work today, but the link below details what and when things regarding hunting concessions transpired. This statement does not mention the concession involved here by name, but the Parliament minutes did. The statement was dated June 6, 2022. If link doesn’t go to the statement on hunting concessions, it is near the bottom of the list.

https://www.mot.gov.zm/?page_id=934

Karl, I am just trying to clarify this for my own benefit.

Using the dates that CME gave us in the initial thread on 9/20/23. When the original leopard hunt was booked and deposit sent in April of 2022, Ibi controlled the concession. When CME signed the second contract and sent an additional deposit adding the lion in October of 2022, Ibi and Andrew would have already known that the concession had already been lost four months previously and the hunt shouldn't have been sold. When CME added his father's hunt in April of 2023, and sent the last $20,000, Ibi and Andrew would have known that the concession had been lost for ten months, and they were scrambling to pay off early season hunters or get them relocated to other concessions.

If this timeline is correct, the last two contracts and deposits would certainly seem fraudulent.

Am I viewing this correctly or am I missing something?

All the best.

If this timeline is correct, it sure seems that Ibi and Andrew committed fraud, with CME as the victim regarding the second and third contracts and deposits.

Didn’t this happen before in Zambia?

That the government decided to change the rules, and all concession holders managed to keep theirs??

By meeting the new laws??

That is why whoever had a concession carried on booking regardless assuming they will continue their business as usual as long as they meet the new laws, as happen the past??

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by AilsaWheels:

quote:

Originally posted by K Evans:
Months ago I found minutes from Zambian Parliament that would shed light on when concession owners were made aware that concessions were unavailable; I can’t get that website to work today, but the link below details what and when things regarding hunting concessions transpired. This statement does not mention the concession involved here by name, but the Parliament minutes did. The statement was dated June 6, 2022. If link doesn’t go to the statement on hunting concessions, it is near the bottom of the list.

https://www.mot.gov.zm/?page_id=934

Karl, I am just trying to clarify this for my own benefit.

Using the dates that CME gave us in the initial thread on 9/20/23. When the original leopard hunt was booked and deposit sent in April of 2022, Ibi controlled the concession. When CME signed the second contract and sent an additional deposit adding the lion in October of 2022, Ibi and Andrew would have already known that the concession had already been lost four months previously and the hunt shouldn't have been sold. When CME added his father's hunt in April of 2023, and sent the last $20,000, Ibi and Andrew would have known that the concession had been lost for ten months, and they were scrambling to pay off early season hunters or get them relocated to other concessions.

If this timeline is correct, the last two contracts and deposits would certainly seem fraudulent.

Am I viewing this correctly or am I missing something?

All the best.

If this timeline is correct, it sure seems that Ibi and Andrew committed fraud, with CME as the victim regarding the second and third contracts and deposits.

Didn’t this happen before in Zambia?

That the government decided to change the rules, and all concession holders managed to keep theirs??

By meeting the new laws??

That is why whoever had a concession carried on booking regardless assuming they will continue their business as usual as long as they meet the new laws, as happen the past??

I am only dealing with the facts surrounding CME being taken for $80,000. Ibi and Andrew sold the add on lion and the buffalo for his father and accepted additional deposits when they new they did not have the concession. Then the monies went missing.

quote:

Originally posted by AilsaWheels:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by AilsaWheels:

quote:

Originally posted by K Evans:
Months ago I found minutes from Zambian Parliament that would shed light on when concession owners were made aware that concessions were unavailable; I can’t get that website to work today, but the link below details what and when things regarding hunting concessions transpired. This statement does not mention the concession involved here by name, but the Parliament minutes did. The statement was dated June 6, 2022. If link doesn’t go to the statement on hunting concessions, it is near the bottom of the list.

https://www.mot.gov.zm/?page_id=934

Karl, I am just trying to clarify this for my own benefit.

Using the dates that CME gave us in the initial thread on 9/20/23. When the original leopard hunt was booked and deposit sent in April of 2022, Ibi controlled the concession. When CME signed the second contract and sent an additional deposit adding the lion in October of 2022, Ibi and Andrew would have already known that the concession had already been lost four months previously and the hunt shouldn't have been sold. When CME added his father's hunt in April of 2023, and sent the last $20,000, Ibi and Andrew would have known that the concession had been lost for ten months, and they were scrambling to pay off early season hunters or get them relocated to other concessions.

If this timeline is correct, the last two contracts and deposits would certainly seem fraudulent.

Am I viewing this correctly or am I missing something?

All the best.

If this timeline is correct, it sure seems that Ibi and Andrew committed fraud, with CME as the victim regarding the second and third contracts and deposits.

Didn’t this happen before in Zambia?

That the government decided to change the rules, and all concession holders managed to keep theirs??

By meeting the new laws??

That is why whoever had a concession carried on booking regardless assuming they will continue their business as usual as long as they meet the new laws, as happen the past??

I am only dealing with the facts surrounding CME being taken for $80,000. Ibi and Andrew sold the add on lion and the buffalo for his father and accepted additional deposits when they new they did not have the concession. Then the monies went missing.

That is where I arrived after reading Andrew's initial responses, then he went back and edited them to try to make himself look better.

quote:

Didn’t this happen before in Zambia?

That the government decided to change the rules, and all concession holders managed to keep theirs??

By meeting the new laws??

That is why whoever had a concession carried on booking regardless assuming they will continue their business as usual as long as they meet the new laws, as happen the past??

Saeed, I honestly don’t know, but given the way things go in Africa, I wouldn’t be surprised if that is the case.
The Zambian Parliament website is still not working (for me at least), so I can’t find mentions of hunting concession closings (or more accurately, concessions not being awarded due to bidders not complying with requirements). I wish I had written down much more detailed notes. The notes I have indicate this issue arose as early as April 2022.
I will keep trying to access the relevant minutes and have asked a friend who has a legally issued concession in Zambia to try and find info on this (he is busy making a living guiding hunters, so my request will rightfully be a bit down his list of things to do).

Initially Andrew said he knew nothing about CME's fathers health issues. CME offered to publish the texts. Andrew then came back and said he was mistaken and had been made aware of the fathers health, and went ahead and booked a hunt for a concession that hadn't been under contract by Ibi for ten months. CME had added the buffalo hunt for his father so he would be able to hunt with him in Africa. Would CME have made other arrangements to hunt with his father in 2023 if he had known no concession was available. We may never know, because that option was taken from him.

As I write this CME is having a great hunt in Mozambique, but unfortunately without his father who is no longer able to travel. It seems that CME will no longer be able to take his father on a buffalo hunt or even be able to take him to Africa. I was blessed to be able to go on scores of buffalo hunts with my father and will always cherish those memories. I have also been blessed to hunt buffalo with my son and will cherish the memories, as I believe he does and will long after I am gone. The saddest part of this ordeal for me is not the money, it is that CME will never have that opportunity. My heart goes out to CME and his father!

quote:

Originally posted by K Evans:

quote:

Didn’t this happen before in Zambia?

That the government decided to change the rules, and all concession holders managed to keep theirs??

By meeting the new laws??

That is why whoever had a concession carried on booking regardless assuming they will continue their business as usual as long as they meet the new laws, as happen the past??

Saeed, I honestly don’t know, but given the way things go in Africa, I wouldn’t be surprised if that is the case.
The Zambian Parliament website is still not working (for me at least), so I can’t find mentions of hunting concession closings (or more accurately, concessions not being awarded due to bidders not complying with requirements). I wish I had written down much more detailed notes. The notes I have indicate this issue arose as early as April 2022.
I will keep trying to access the relevant minutes and have asked a friend who has a legally issued concession in Zambia to try and find info on this (he is busy making a living guiding hunters, so my request will rightfully be a bit down his list of things to do).

The information I got about the Zambian government doing it before came from someone working in the Zambian game development.

Again, how true that is I have no idea.

Bottom line payment was made DIRECTLY to Ibi by the client.

Ibi is the only person responsible for paying it back.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by AilsaWheels:

quote:

Originally posted by K Evans:
Months ago I found minutes from Zambian Parliament that would shed light on when concession owners were made aware that concessions were unavailable; I can’t get that website to work today, but the link below details what and when things regarding hunting concessions transpired. This statement does not mention the concession involved here by name, but the Parliament minutes did. The statement was dated June 6, 2022. If link doesn’t go to the statement on hunting concessions, it is near the bottom of the list.

https://www.mot.gov.zm/?page_id=934

Karl, I am just trying to clarify this for my own benefit.

Using the dates that CME gave us in the initial thread on 9/20/23. When the original leopard hunt was booked and deposit sent in April of 2022, Ibi controlled the concession. When CME signed the second contract and sent an additional deposit adding the lion in October of 2022, Ibi and Andrew would have already known that the concession had already been lost four months previously and the hunt shouldn't have been sold. When CME added his father's hunt in April of 2023, and sent the last $20,000, Ibi and Andrew would have known that the concession had been lost for ten months, and they were scrambling to pay off early season hunters or get them relocated to other concessions.

If this timeline is correct, the last two contracts and deposits would certainly seem fraudulent.

Am I viewing this correctly or am I missing something?

All the best.

If this timeline is correct, it sure seems that Ibi and Andrew committed fraud, with CME as the victim regarding the second and third contracts and deposits.

Didn’t this happen before in Zambia?

That the government decided to change the rules, and all concession holders managed to keep theirs??

By meeting the new laws??

That is why whoever had a concession carried on booking regardless assuming they will continue their business as usual as long as they meet the new laws, as happen the past??

it happened in 89 and 91 at least when my boss had interests in zambia operations. he stopped just after so yes it happened in the past in zambia and the same got awarded the same areas.

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by AilsaWheels:

quote:

Originally posted by K Evans:
Months ago I found minutes from Zambian Parliament that would shed light on when concession owners were made aware that concessions were unavailable; I can’t get that website to work today, but the link below details what and when things regarding hunting concessions transpired. This statement does not mention the concession involved here by name, but the Parliament minutes did. The statement was dated June 6, 2022. If link doesn’t go to the statement on hunting concessions, it is near the bottom of the list.

https://www.mot.gov.zm/?page_id=934

Karl, I am just trying to clarify this for my own benefit.

Using the dates that CME gave us in the initial thread on 9/20/23. When the original leopard hunt was booked and deposit sent in April of 2022, Ibi controlled the concession. When CME signed the second contract and sent an additional deposit adding the lion in October of 2022, Ibi and Andrew would have already known that the concession had already been lost four months previously and the hunt shouldn't have been sold. When CME added his father's hunt in April of 2023, and sent the last $20,000, Ibi and Andrew would have known that the concession had been lost for ten months, and they were scrambling to pay off early season hunters or get them relocated to other concessions.

If this timeline is correct, the last two contracts and deposits would certainly seem fraudulent.

Am I viewing this correctly or am I missing something?

All the best.

If this timeline is correct, it sure seems that Ibi and Andrew committed fraud, with CME as the victim regarding the second and third contracts and deposits.

Didn’t this happen before in Zambia?

That the government decided to change the rules, and all concession holders managed to keep theirs??

By meeting the new laws??

That is why whoever had a concession carried on booking regardless assuming they will continue their business as usual as long as they meet the new laws, as happen the past??

it happened in 89 and 91 at least when my boss had interests in zambia operations. he stopped just after so yes it happened in the past in zambia and the same got awarded the same areas.

Glad to hear that what I was told was true.

Got a message from a professional hunter working in Zambia confirming this too.

It is not Andrew.

Those going after Andrew don’t seem to see the situation as it stands.

Andrew didn’t get a penny out of this.

In fact, he had lost business because of it.

There is no way in hell is he going to pay any money back, because he never received any.

This is becoming like the anti gun lobby blaming gun manufacturers for gun crimes!

They are totally ignoring the real criminals.

In this case it is Ibi.

He has the money.

He should pay it back.

Even then, I do sympathize with him.

Due to no fault of his, the government screwed up and he has to pay for it.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by AilsaWheels:

quote:

Originally posted by K Evans:
Months ago I found minutes from Zambian Parliament that would shed light on when concession owners were made aware that concessions were unavailable; I can’t get that website to work today, but the link below details what and when things regarding hunting concessions transpired. This statement does not mention the concession involved here by name, but the Parliament minutes did. The statement was dated June 6, 2022. If link doesn’t go to the statement on hunting concessions, it is near the bottom of the list.

https://www.mot.gov.zm/?page_id=934

Karl, I am just trying to clarify this for my own benefit.

Using the dates that CME gave us in the initial thread on 9/20/23. When the original leopard hunt was booked and deposit sent in April of 2022, Ibi controlled the concession. When CME signed the second contract and sent an additional deposit adding the lion in October of 2022, Ibi and Andrew would have already known that the concession had already been lost four months previously and the hunt shouldn't have been sold. When CME added his father's hunt in April of 2023, and sent the last $20,000, Ibi and Andrew would have known that the concession had been lost for ten months, and they were scrambling to pay off early season hunters or get them relocated to other concessions.

If this timeline is correct, the last two contracts and deposits would certainly seem fraudulent.

Am I viewing this correctly or am I missing something?

All the best.

If this timeline is correct, it sure seems that Ibi and Andrew committed fraud, with CME as the victim regarding the second and third contracts and deposits.

Didn’t this happen before in Zambia?

That the government decided to change the rules, and all concession holders managed to keep theirs??

By meeting the new laws??

That is why whoever had a concession carried on booking regardless assuming they will continue their business as usual as long as they meet the new laws, as happen the past??

it happened in 89 and 91 at least when my boss had interests in zambia operations. he stopped just after so yes it happened in the past in zambia and the same got awarded the same areas.

Glad to hear that what I was told was true.

Got a message from a professional hunter working in Zambia confirming this too.

It is not Andrew.

Those going after Andrew don’t seem to see the situation as it stands.

Andrew didn’t get a penny out of this.

In fact, he had lost business because of it.

There is no way in hell is he going to pay any money back, because he never received any.

This is becoming like the anti gun lobby blaming gun manufacturers for gun crimes!

They are totally ignoring the real criminals.

In this case it is Ibi.

He has the money.

He should pay it back.

Even then, I do sympathize with him.

Due to no fault of his, the government screwed up and he has to pay for it.

most people do not understand how business is conducted in africa and i thought CAR was bad ... but remember it s easier to go after a public face for many reasons that going after the real crook that stole the money.

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by AilsaWheels:

quote:

Originally posted by K Evans:
Months ago I found minutes from Zambian Parliament that would shed light on when concession owners were made aware that concessions were unavailable; I can’t get that website to work today, but the link below details what and when things regarding hunting concessions transpired. This statement does not mention the concession involved here by name, but the Parliament minutes did. The statement was dated June 6, 2022. If link doesn’t go to the statement on hunting concessions, it is near the bottom of the list.

https://www.mot.gov.zm/?page_id=934

Karl, I am just trying to clarify this for my own benefit.

Using the dates that CME gave us in the initial thread on 9/20/23. When the original leopard hunt was booked and deposit sent in April of 2022, Ibi controlled the concession. When CME signed the second contract and sent an additional deposit adding the lion in October of 2022, Ibi and Andrew would have already known that the concession had already been lost four months previously and the hunt shouldn't have been sold. When CME added his father's hunt in April of 2023, and sent the last $20,000, Ibi and Andrew would have known that the concession had been lost for ten months, and they were scrambling to pay off early season hunters or get them relocated to other concessions.

If this timeline is correct, the last two contracts and deposits would certainly seem fraudulent.

Am I viewing this correctly or am I missing something?

All the best.

If this timeline is correct, it sure seems that Ibi and Andrew committed fraud, with CME as the victim regarding the second and third contracts and deposits.

Didn’t this happen before in Zambia?

That the government decided to change the rules, and all concession holders managed to keep theirs??

By meeting the new laws??

That is why whoever had a concession carried on booking regardless assuming they will continue their business as usual as long as they meet the new laws, as happen the past??

it happened in 89 and 91 at least when my boss had interests in zambia operations. he stopped just after so yes it happened in the past in zambia and the same got awarded the same areas.

Glad to hear that what I was told was true.

Got a message from a professional hunter working in Zambia confirming this too.

It is not Andrew.

Those going after Andrew don’t seem to see the situation as it stands.

Andrew didn’t get a penny out of this.

In fact, he had lost business because of it.

There is no way in hell is he going to pay any money back, because he never received any.

This is becoming like the anti gun lobby blaming gun manufacturers for gun crimes!

They are totally ignoring the real criminals.

In this case it is Ibi.

He has the money.

He should pay it back.

Even then, I do sympathize with him.

Due to no fault of his, the government screwed up and he has to pay for it.

most people do not understand how business is conducted in africa and i thought CAR was bad ... but remember it s easier to go after a public face for many reasons that going after the real crook that stole the money.

Yeah… you guys have it right… Andrew was just the “Bag Man” and “Get Away Driver” lol
Ibi never told Andrew he was robbing the bank while Andrew sat outside and the Ski mask was cause it was cold outside that day

The excuses are almost comical

quote:

Originally posted by Kpoynter:

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by AilsaWheels:

quote:

Originally posted by K Evans:
Months ago I found minutes from Zambian Parliament that would shed light on when concession owners were made aware that concessions were unavailable; I can’t get that website to work today, but the link below details what and when things regarding hunting concessions transpired. This statement does not mention the concession involved here by name, but the Parliament minutes did. The statement was dated June 6, 2022. If link doesn’t go to the statement on hunting concessions, it is near the bottom of the list.

https://www.mot.gov.zm/?page_id=934

Karl, I am just trying to clarify this for my own benefit.

Using the dates that CME gave us in the initial thread on 9/20/23. When the original leopard hunt was booked and deposit sent in April of 2022, Ibi controlled the concession. When CME signed the second contract and sent an additional deposit adding the lion in October of 2022, Ibi and Andrew would have already known that the concession had already been lost four months previously and the hunt shouldn't have been sold. When CME added his father's hunt in April of 2023, and sent the last $20,000, Ibi and Andrew would have known that the concession had been lost for ten months, and they were scrambling to pay off early season hunters or get them relocated to other concessions.

If this timeline is correct, the last two contracts and deposits would certainly seem fraudulent.

Am I viewing this correctly or am I missing something?

All the best.

If this timeline is correct, it sure seems that Ibi and Andrew committed fraud, with CME as the victim regarding the second and third contracts and deposits.

Didn’t this happen before in Zambia?

That the government decided to change the rules, and all concession holders managed to keep theirs??

By meeting the new laws??

That is why whoever had a concession carried on booking regardless assuming they will continue their business as usual as long as they meet the new laws, as happen the past??

it happened in 89 and 91 at least when my boss had interests in zambia operations. he stopped just after so yes it happened in the past in zambia and the same got awarded the same areas.

Glad to hear that what I was told was true.

Got a message from a professional hunter working in Zambia confirming this too.

It is not Andrew.

Those going after Andrew don’t seem to see the situation as it stands.

Andrew didn’t get a penny out of this.

In fact, he had lost business because of it.

There is no way in hell is he going to pay any money back, because he never received any.

This is becoming like the anti gun lobby blaming gun manufacturers for gun crimes!

They are totally ignoring the real criminals.

In this case it is Ibi.

He has the money.

He should pay it back.

Even then, I do sympathize with him.

Due to no fault of his, the government screwed up and he has to pay for it.

most people do not understand how business is conducted in africa and i thought CAR was bad ... but remember it s easier to go after a public face for many reasons that going after the real crook that stole the money.

Yeah… you guys have it right… Andrew was just the “Bag Man” and “Get Away Driver” lol
Ibi never told Andrew he was robbing the bank while Andrew sat outside and the Ski mask was cause it was cold outside that day

The excuses are almost comical

I hope you never read our secret dossier!

Where Andrew admits to assassinating Kennedy!

quote:

Originally posted by Kpoynter:

The excuses are almost comical.

+1, and the hypocrisy is over the top too. Rest assured that if the shoe was on the other foot and they responded to an ad by a PH for a hunt, coordinated all the details of the hunt in terms of dates, quota, prices, etc. with the PH, then paid the person (who they did not know from Adam but who was represented to them to be the concession holder) that the PH told them to, got stiffed for the hunt to the tune of $80,000 and then did not get the full and aggressive support of the PH to recover the funds . . . you would be hearing a lot fewer excuses and a whole lot more squealing.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:


Due to no fault of his, the government screwed up and he has to pay for it.

Please clarify for me how the Zambian government screwed up.

Evidently Ibi had the area for a fixed number of years. Renewals are not automatic just like they aren't in other African countries. One to two years before the renewal, Ibi would have had to put in a tender for the area again. For whatever reason, the Zambian government decided not to renew Chanjuzi to Ibi. From information already posted in these threads, notification of nonrenewal took place in June of 2022 that Ibi would not have the concession after November of 2022.

I can see how Andrew and Ibi initially booked CME into Chanjuzi for his buffalo and leopard prior to Ibi loosing the concession. In June, 2022, CME should have been notified of this potential problem and deposits returned if CME wanted.

The issue with all of this is that after the government notified Ibi that he no longer had Chanjuzi, Andrew and Ibi upgraded CME's hunt to include lion with an additional deposit in October, 2022 and then accepted the add on hunt for his father in April of 2023 with an additional deposit with them knowing full well that the concession wasn't available to them.

How is this the Zambian governments fault?

quote:

Originally posted by AilsaWheels:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:


Due to no fault of his, the government screwed up and he has to pay for it.

Please clarify for me how the Zambian government screwed up.

Evidently Ibi had the area for a fixed number of years. Renewals are not automatic just like they aren't in other African countries. One to two years before the renewal, Ibi would have had to put in a tender for the area again. For whatever reason, the Zambian government decided not to renew Chanjuzi to Ibi. From information already posted in these threads, notification of nonrenewal took place in June of 2022 that Ibi would not have the concession after November of 2022.

I can see how Andrew and Ibi initially booked CME into Chanjuzi for his buffalo and leopard prior to Ibi loosing the concession. In June, 2022, CME should have been notified of this potential problem and deposits returned if CME wanted.

The issue with all of this is that after the government notified Ibi that he no longer had Chanjuzi, Andrew and Ibi upgraded CME's hunt to include lion with an additional deposit in October, 2022 and then accepted the add on hunt for his father in April of 2023 with an additional deposit with them knowing full well that the concession wasn't available to them.

How is this the Zambian governments fault?

Andrew did not booked the hunt ... even CME thanked Andrew for connecting with Ibi and that CME paid directly Ibi ... some here have a reading comprehension issue or problem. and english is far from being my first language.

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by AilsaWheels:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:


Due to no fault of his, the government screwed up and he has to pay for it.

Please clarify for me how the Zambian government screwed up.

Evidently Ibi had the area for a fixed number of years. Renewals are not automatic just like they aren't in other African countries. One to two years before the renewal, Ibi would have had to put in a tender for the area again. For whatever reason, the Zambian government decided not to renew Chanjuzi to Ibi. From information already posted in these threads, notification of nonrenewal took place in June of 2022 that Ibi would not have the concession after November of 2022.

I can see how Andrew and Ibi initially booked CME into Chanjuzi for his buffalo and leopard prior to Ibi loosing the concession. In June, 2022, CME should have been notified of this potential problem and deposits returned if CME wanted.

The issue with all of this is that after the government notified Ibi that he no longer had Chanjuzi, Andrew and Ibi upgraded CME's hunt to include lion with an additional deposit in October, 2022 and then accepted the add on hunt for his father in April of 2023 with an additional deposit with them knowing full well that the concession wasn't available to them.

How is this the Zambian governments fault?

Andrew did not booked the hunt ... even CME thanked Andrew for connecting with Ibi and that CME paid directly Ibi ... some here have a reading comprehension issue or problem. and english is far from being my first language.

Some are on a crusade!

As I mentioned above, their arguments are no different to anti gun lobbies.

Blame the manufacturers for the crimes of individuals!

Ibi took the money.

But they blame Andrew for it!

I will book a hunt with Andrew without any questions!

Ibi, on the other hand, I will give a very wide berth!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

Ibi took the money.

. . . and who advertised, sold the hunt and had Corey pay Ibi the money? Did Corey have a clue who Ibi was when the hunt was advertised? Why didn't Baldry just state in the initial hunt offering that he was booking the hunt for Ibi? At this point I think it is pretty clear that Baldry has a small cadre of apologists who are prepared to give him a pass for his direct and material role in this sham. Easy to do when it is not your $80,000 that went out the door for a hunt Baldry sold that never happened.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

Ibi took the money.

. . . and who advertised, sold the hunt and had Corey pay Ibi the money? Did Corey have a clue who Ibi was when the hunt was advertised? Why didn't Baldry just state in the initial hunt offering that he was booking the hunt for Ibi? At this point I think it is pretty clear that Baldry has a small cadre of apologists who are prepared to give him a pass for his direct and material role in this sham. Easy to do when it is not your $80,000 that went out the door for a hunt Baldry sold that never happened.

Mike, you scream your head off as much as you like.

You and me will never see eye to on this.

Your argument is not much different to someone advertising here and things go south, then we get blamed!

Money should be returned by the person who took it.

No one else!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

Your argument is not much different to someone advertising here and things go south, then we get blamed!

. . . chalk and cheese.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

Ibi took the money.

. . . and who advertised, sold the hunt and had Corey pay Ibi the money? Did Corey have a clue who Ibi was when the hunt was advertised? Why didn't Baldry just state in the initial hunt offering that he was booking the hunt for Ibi? At this point I think it is pretty clear that Baldry has a small cadre of apologists who are prepared to give him a pass for his direct and material role in this sham. Easy to do when it is not your $80,000 that went out the door for a hunt Baldry sold that never happened.

Mike, you scream your head off as much as you like.

You and me will never see eye to on this.

Your argument is not much different to someone advertising here and things go south, then we get blamed!

Money should be returned by the person who took it.

No one else!

No one has ever blamed you or this site. It’s a great resource for all, but let’s call a spade a spade. I wouldn’t have said a word and would have handled this behind the scenes if other people were not attacked on this site for their business practices by Andrew. As the owner of this site you should want better for the hunting community as a whole. We all make mistakes, but a lot can be said about a person by the way things are handled when things go south.

And who the “F” would have ever known who Ibi is? He didn’t even have a website. I booked the hunt with Andrew because of his reputation on this site.

Again, not your fault or the fault of this website!!

As I have said before , I do not think Andrew is responsible for paying the amount back to CME.

On the other hand , there is a date which I forget , beyond which these transactions were fraudulent. As the person who advertised this hunt, don’t you think Andrew had a responsibility to advise CME of this ? If he didn’t know , that is just as bad but for different reasons .

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

Ibi took the money.

. . . and who advertised, sold the hunt and had Corey pay Ibi the money? Did Corey have a clue who Ibi was when the hunt was advertised? Why didn't Baldry just state in the initial hunt offering that he was booking the hunt for Ibi? At this point I think it is pretty clear that Baldry has a small cadre of apologists who are prepared to give him a pass for his direct and material role in this sham. Easy to do when it is not your $80,000 that went out the door for a hunt Baldry sold that never happened.

Agree!
If this was your $80,000, you would not be giving Baldry the “I was too dumb to know that Ibi was a crook” free pass…

30 pages and no one including Lawyers has posted a constructive strategy to initiate the return of Corey's money? Bash me all you want but it has not helped in the slightest has it?

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
30 pages and no one including Lawyers has posted a constructive strategy to initiate the return of Corey's money? Bash me all you want but it has not helped in the slightest has it?

You are an easy target.

And those bashing you are only diverting attention from the real cook!

Ibi!

I know he is reading this.

And if he one ounce of honesty, he would refund the immediately!

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
30 pages and no one including Lawyers has posted a constructive strategy to initiate the return of Corey's money? Bash me all you want but it has not helped in the slightest has it?

many are so in love with you Andrew that they do not want the story end and have done crickets to help CME but only choose to go after you: thus the love story.

. . . maybe Andrew will share with us all that he has personally done this week to help Corey get the money back that Andrew played a direct hand in relieving him of.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . maybe Andrew will share with us all that he has personally done this week to help Corey get the money back that Andrew played a direct hand in relieving him of.

May be YOU can tell us what you have since the beginning of this to get Ibi to pay back the money HE has taken??

One, that is not my job. Two, I had no hand in taking Corey's money to begin with unlike Baldry. Three, keeping this thread alive despite the desires of some to make it go away at least keeps a spotlight shined in the direction of the miscreants.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
30 pages and no one including Lawyers has posted a constructive strategy to initiate the return of Corey's money? Bash me all you want but it has not helped in the slightest has it?

I'll suggest a constructive strategy for you, then. I base this off of my personal / business experience that has transpired since returning from my last safari in October of 23, approximately 10 months ago.

As custom home builders, we had a client stiff us for a 6 figure dollar amount the last week of October last year, the week after we returned from our trip. This amounted to their final bill on the job. This left a lot of sub contractors and suppliers unpaid. Yes, our sub-contract says "You get paid when we get paid" but the bottom line is even though the suppliers and subs worked and provided materials for the new home owner, we, through our company, hired them to do the work. The bank was no help in that the client had a one time close construction loan so our lien didn't stop them from moving in and converting the construction loan to a permanent mortgage.

SO, the way we handled it was I sold a paid off car, I sold all 3 of my doubles, and a few other items. I used these funds to pay off all sub-contractors and suppliers with the exception of one. For that one, I worked out a deal where the first X amount of profit I had in the next job would go to him so that he was also made whole. He has been paid in full at this time. This arrangement now has all of my business relationships in good standing and paid in full.

Now to get our $$$$ back. We are pursuing the fraudulent clients though the legal system ourselves, through our company, not relying on any of the subs or suppliers to participate, as we went ahead and paid them out of personal and business funds. Bottom line is our debts are paid, and we are working to get our funds back; likely lost for good but we have clear consciences in our business dealings.

Maybe you can work something out with Corey along those lines. Sell what you can to pay him what you can. Work out a deal with Corey to pay him a portion of your PH fees going forward to make him whole. Then YOU pursue Ibi to make you Whole since you are the one who advertised and brokered the deal with a crook. Man up. Do the right thing and you'll get a portion of your reputation back.

despite what some say here Andrew reputation is not gone at least by the ones that know a little more Africa than just the kangaroo court or internet trials that some here are so good to hang before even thinking about what happened.

Todd - you did the honorable thing with your subs. The client should lynched.

In Baldry’s case, he feels no obligation or accountability at all. Pitiful.

I can’t grasp the defense of Baldry’s actions by the folks here. It just doesn’t add up.

It adds up . . . it ain’t their $80,000.

quote:

Originally posted by medved:
at least by the ones that know a little more Africa

Yeah man…
The ones griping about reality only have decades each of experience and hundreds of Safaris all over Africa and Experience all over the World
Man…they just don’t get it
Classic Youth and Inexperience

i suggest some of you naysayers reading that whole text and explained how Andrew lied or misrepresent the hunt ....


https://www.mot.gov.zm/?wpdmpr...ea8aeebb041723771054

or direct link then download;

https://www.mot.gov.zm/?wpdmpr...unting-concessions-1

quote:

Originally posted by medved:
i suggest some of you naysayers reading that whole text and explained how Andrew lied or misrepresent the hunt ....


https://www.mot.gov.zm/?wpdmpr...ea8aeebb041723771054

or direct link then download;

https://www.mot.gov.zm/?wpdmpr...unting-concessions-1

Well… there’s 15 minutes of my life I’ll never get back.
I can’t imagine what you think this proves. Of course, if you spent 15 minutes also you must know Chanjuzi was not referenced and I don’t see how this is definitive in regard to any GMA.
Many of us also read minutes from a meeting that DID specifically reference Chanjuzi and it specifically referenced it being in question and in dispute. Karl listed it some while back

I guess we just don’t get Africa and the corruption.

Yes Todd I am doing that to
repay deposits for Royal Kafue. The timely repayment of deposits by Ibi led me to believe that all monies would be repaid albeit in installments and I did not want to interfere with this process. However more drastic action is now required of which there has been no suggestion or advice. I have made as much noise as I dare but my voice is not being heard. When publicly advertising the hunts there were no red flags.

quote:

Originally posted by medved:
despite what some say here Andrew reputation is not gone at least by the ones that know a little more Africa than just the kangaroo court or internet trials that some here are so good to hang before even thinking about what happened.

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:

quote:

Originally posted by medved:
despite what some say here Andrew reputation is not gone at least by the ones that know a little more Africa than just the kangaroo court or internet trials that some here are so good to hang before even thinking about what happened.

If I was considering hunting Zambia, Andrew might be the only one I would call.

I know many people who have hunted with him, and non has anything but very high praise for him.

. . . what about the ones that booked with him who never got to hunt with him?

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . what about the ones that booked with him who never got to hunt with him?

Never heard of a single person who paid him and did have a great hunt!

Name ONE please!