quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
He does not have to get a penny.

He knew that Ibi did not have the right to hunt the consistent he continued to solicit payment.

He did not inform CME of this material change.

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
He does not have to get a penny.

He knew that Ibi did not have the right to hunt the consistent he continued to solicit payment.

He did not inform CME of this material change.

From what has been said:

- Ibi had the concession and Andrew among others, were subleasing from Ibi.
- The lease expired and was put up for tender with a whole bunch of other concessions.
- Ibi won the tender.
- Some disgruntled contender put a court injunction to block the deal.
- Ibi made a counter injunction and got it back.
- An appeal was made and the injunction was re-imposed and if I am not mistaken (though stand to be corrected), nobody is utilizing this area as the injunction is still holding.

Was Andrew really privy to the intricacies related to the tender process as these are restricted company details and other than being told what he wanted to hear there is some doubt if he really knew.

The financial transaction was concluded between two parties: the buyer (Cme - client) and the seller (Ibi - concession owner/outfitter).
Andrew is indeed a middle-man though in the form of the designated guide/PH and in a way, Cme is also his client seeing he "found him".

Was Andrew going to benefit financially from this deal? Of course, he doesn't hunt for the hell of it.

None of us however know what his arrangements are with Ibi: he could have a commission or a "finder's fee or an inflated PH day rate; who knows and hardly is it any of our business.

The bottom line is that seeing this deal went up Shit Creek he isn't going to see a single red cent.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Nothing above changes the fact solicitation funds continued when Baldry knew the concession was not held.

Baldfy should have communicated the concession was lost and not solicited payments until concession was obtained which it never was.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Nothing above changes the fact solicitation funds continued when Baldry knew the concession was not held.

Baldfy should have communicated the concession was lost and not solicited payments until concession was obtained which it never was.

And nothing will ever change the facts that you are giving Ibi a break by blaming Andrew.

I repeat, Andrew NEVER RECEIVED A PENNY!

Ibi took the money.

Ibi is SIOLELY responssible to paying it back.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Nothing above changes the fact solicitation funds continued when Baldry knew the concession was not held.

Baldfy should have communicated the concession was lost and not solicited payments until concession was obtained which it never was.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Nothing above changes the fact solicitation funds continued when Baldry knew the concession was not held.

Baldfy should have communicated the concession was lost and not solicited payments until concession was obtained which it never was.

Fact? Good grief you chaps can make shit up. Show me some proof that I 'solicited' funds after the injunction. I was unaware CME paid for a Buffalo hunt and was informed by CME after the transaction.

I presume you also have proof of the mysterious edited posts?

I was in the bush when Ibi notified clients of the injunction.

I have just completed my third hunt this year for Munyamadzi. Why not ask Thor if I have ever requested any other fees apart from my daily rate?

If you believe that I intended to 'solicit' or 'embezzle' funds in conjunction with Ibi then you have seriously been misled

CME initiated an investigation by our authorities and I was questioned as to whether I received any funds from CME or Ibi. It was indicated that they were questioning Ibi and to date, I have heard nothing more and advise you to contact CME directly.

Congratulations on your elections.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
Back to the top.
No changes in anyone’s position. Some still think Baldry is not part of the problem. Nor has Ibi paid up….

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

Andrew was as much "part" of the problem as any of us.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

Andrew was as much "part" of the problem as any of us.

Not me. I did not market the hunt. I did not reach out to the client and pitch the hunt to him. I did not coordinate all the details of the hunt, i.e., arrange the quota, set the dates, pick the area and fix the price. I did not introduce the client to Ibi and have the client pay Ibi. I did not deny responsibility when the client’s refund was not made. I did not sit on my hands in helping the client get a refund so as not to burn my bridges with Ibi until the client felt compelled to call me out publicly. I did not change my story as the facts came out to try and make myself look less culpable. Saeed you may “part” of problem in continuing to deny all the foregoing, but I am not “part” of the problem in any way, shape or form compared to Baldry.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

Andrew was as much "part" of the problem as any of us.

Not me. I did not market the hunt. I did not reach out to the client and pitch the hunt to him. I did not coordinate all the details of the hunt, i.e., arrange the quota, set the dates, pick the area and fix the price. I did not introduce the client to Ibi and have the client pay Ibi. I did not deny responsibility when the client’s refund was not made. I did not sit on my hands in helping the client get a refund so as not to burn my bridges with Ibi until the client felt compelled to call me out publicly. I did not change my story as the facts came out to try and make myself look less culpable. Saeed you may “part” of problem in continuing to deny all the foregoing, but I am not “part” of the problem in any way, shape or form compared to Baldry.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Nothing above changes the fact solicitation funds continued when Baldry knew the concession was not held.

Baldfy should have communicated the concession was lost and not solicited payments until concession was obtained which it never was.

Fact? Good grief you chaps can make shit up. Show me some proof that I 'solicited' funds after the injunction. I was unaware CME paid for a Buffalo hunt and was informed by CME after the transaction.

I presume you also have proof of the mysterious edited posts?

I was in the bush when Ibi notified clients of the injunction.

I have just completed my third hunt this year for Munyamadzi. Why not ask Thor if I have ever requested any other fees apart from my daily rate?

If you believe that I intended to 'solicit' or 'embezzle' funds in conjunction with Ibi then you have seriously been misled

CME initiated an investigation by our authorities and I was questioned as to whether I received any funds from CME or Ibi. It was indicated that they were questioning Ibi and to date, I have heard nothing more and advise you to contact CME directly.

Congratulations on your elections.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Nothing above changes the fact solicitation funds continued when Baldry knew the concession was not held.

Baldfy should have communicated the concession was lost and not solicited payments until concession was obtained which it never was.

Fact? Good grief you chaps can make shit up. Show me some proof that I 'solicited' funds after the injunction. I was unaware CME paid for a Buffalo hunt and was informed by CME after the transaction.

I presume you also have proof of the mysterious edited posts?

I was in the bush when Ibi notified clients of the injunction.

I have just completed my third hunt this year for Munyamadzi. Why not ask Thor if I have ever requested any other fees apart from my daily rate?

If you believe that I intended to 'solicit' or 'embezzle' funds in conjunction with Ibi then you have seriously been misled

CME initiated an investigation by our authorities and I was questioned as to whether I received any funds from CME or Ibi. It was indicated that they were questioning Ibi and to date, I have heard nothing more and advise you to contact CME directly.

Congratulations on your elections.

Let me take a stab at this....

1. You directed where the funds were to be paid.
2. You may have been in the bush, but cell and/or satelite phones exist and are used with great regularity. Not knowing is no defense.
3. Your business with Thor is not related to this issue. You acted as agent for Ibi.
4. Doubt you embezzled anything. Ibi is the culprit, you where part of the process and sold a hunt in a concession you did not have access to. When refunds were handed out, CME was not included.
5. Thank you for congrats. Trump is better than the alternative.
6. I do not have the posts you edited. Others may and may choose to share them.

Did I miss anything?

Baldry - figure out a way to make CME whole and make this right and it goes away...

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Nothing above changes the fact solicitation funds continued when Baldry knew the concession was not held.

Baldfy should have communicated the concession was lost and not solicited payments until concession was obtained which it never was.

Fact? Good grief you chaps can make shit up. Show me some proof that I 'solicited' funds after the injunction. I was unaware CME paid for a Buffalo hunt and was informed by CME after the transaction.

I presume you also have proof of the mysterious edited posts?

I was in the bush when Ibi notified clients of the injunction.

I have just completed my third hunt this year for Munyamadzi. Why not ask Thor if I have ever requested any other fees apart from my daily rate?

If you believe that I intended to 'solicit' or 'embezzle' funds in conjunction with Ibi then you have seriously been misled

CME initiated an investigation by our authorities and I was questioned as to whether I received any funds from CME or Ibi. It was indicated that they were questioning Ibi and to date, I have heard nothing more and advise you to contact CME directly.

Congratulations on your elections.

Let me take a stab at this....

1. You directed where the funds were to be paid.
2. You may have been in the bush, but cell and/or satelite phones exist and are used with great regularity. Not knowing is no defense.
3. Your business with Thor is not related to this issue. You acted as agent for Ibi.
4. Doubt you embezzled anything. Ibi is the culprit, you where part of the process and sold a hunt in a concession you did not have access to. When refunds were handed out, CME was not included.
5. Thank you for congrats. Trump is better than the alternative.
6. I do not have the posts you edited. Others may and may choose to share them.

Did I miss anything?

Baldry - figure out a way to make CME whole and make this right and it goes away...

You did miss the part where Baldry was thrown off a commercial site for soliciting clients for this hunt without being a paid advertiser. Basically stealing from that site’s owner. I’m guessing that was someone else’s fault also, or Baldry could just be an unbelievable moron who didn’t understand what was going on.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
You did miss the part where Baldry was thrown off a commercial site for soliciting clients for this hunt without being a paid advertiser. Basically stealing from that site’s owner. I’m guessing that was someone else’s fault also, or Baldry could just be an unbelievable moron who didn’t understand what was going on.


Many people have been thrown out of that site.

They don't even like anyone mentioning AR in any post, or you get kicked out!

I wonder what stupid rules Andrew broke to be kicked out.

Here at AR we encourage our members to mention and link other hunting sites.

We like to expand knowledge between hunters and shooters.

We are not governed by some stupid advertisers who make the rules.

WE, all of us, as HUNTERS, make the rules.

Never an advertiser.

Not sure if we are unique in that we have no one dictating what should or should NOT be posted.

A shame really that other sites let money rule over principles!

Outfitters and professional hunters are free to offer their hunts on AR.

Totally free.

Many years ago I kicked off a hunting website because I recommened a professional hunter who was not an advertiser.

I started AR and never looked back!

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Folks,

You might like to know that Ibi's membership in the Zambian Hunters and Guides Assoc. has been terminated.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana338:
You could try:

Profesional guides & outfitters association of Zambia -- OPHAA

https://ophaa.org/member-assoc...sociation-of-zambia/

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
You did miss the part where Baldry was thrown off a commercial site for soliciting clients for this hunt without being a paid advertiser. Basically stealing from that site’s owner. I’m guessing that was someone else’s fault also, or Baldry could just be an unbelievable moron who didn’t understand what was going on.


Many people have been thrown out of that site.

They don't even like anyone mentioning AR in any post, or you get kicked out!

I wonder what stupid rules Andrew broke to be kicked out.

Here at AR we encourage our members to mention and link other hunting sites.

We like to expand knowledge between hunters and shooters.

We are not governed by some stupid advertisers who make the rules.

WE, all of us, as HUNTERS, make the rules.

Never an advertiser.

Not sure if we are unique in that we have no one dictating what should or should NOT be posted.

A shame really that other sites let money rule over principles!

Outfitters and professional hunters are free to offer their hunts on AR.

Totally free.

Many years ago I kicked off a hunting website because I recommened a professional hunter who was not an advertiser.

I started AR and never looked back!

It makes absolutely no difference how many people have been thrown off that site. That is like saying the jails are too full of thieves, so we need to legalize theft.

The fact remains that Baldry was thrown off that site for soliciting clients for his bogus hunts without being a paid advertiser. But as I stated above, I'm sure it was someone else's fault...

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
Michael,
No, a Go Fund Drive is for folks in a jam, not for people who put themselves in a jam by their own actions.
Agree that Baldry never got any money but he directed where it was to be sent and sold the hunt on a concession he would not get access to. Then, when refunds were passed out, did he remotely attempt to get his client paid first?

I won’t restate anything more here. You know my position. You act as an agent then you are accountable.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
Michael,
No, a Go Fund Drive is for folks in a jam, not for people who put themselves in a jam by their own actions.
Agree that Baldry never got any money but he directed where it was to be sent and sold the hunt on a concession he would not get access to. Then, when refunds were passed out, did he remotely attempt to get his client paid first?

I won’t restate anything more here. You know my position. You act as an agent then you are accountable.

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
Michael,
No, a Go Fund Drive is for folks in a jam, not for people who put themselves in a jam by their own actions.
Agree that Baldry never got any money but he directed where it was to be sent and sold the hunt on a concession he would not get access to. Then, when refunds were passed out, did he remotely attempt to get his client paid first?

I won’t restate anything more here. You know my position. You act as an agent then you are accountable.

Did Andrew direct where the money was to be sent or did he put Cme into direct contact with Ibi with whom the details of the hunt were concluded?

Agents are operators who handle the organizational process of a hunt from A-Z which is not what Andrew concluded as reading in between the lines, Ibi must have given Andrew, freelance PH, the slots available.

After the shit hit the fan, reimbursements were made and one is to assume that Ibi, who was holding all client's moneys, repaid clients on "first come, first served" basis according to booking status; the money ran out and Cme found himself on the dark side of the moon.

The tirade that followed has not helped in any way and very likely has pissed Ibi off immensely to the point where his attitude has probably changed to a "fuck you" stance.

It has proved far easier to attack Andrew as he is actively on the forum whereas Ibi is not, or if he is, is lurking and reading.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
Michael,
No, a Go Fund Drive is for folks in a jam, not for people who put themselves in a jam by their own actions.
Agree that Baldry never got any money but he directed where it was to be sent and sold the hunt on a concession he would not get access to. Then, when refunds were passed out, did he remotely attempt to get his client paid first?

I won’t restate anything more here. You know my position. You act as an agent then you are accountable.

Yes we do.

Endless, pointless, accusations against a man who never received a penny!

What I like to know is, where is the client in all this discussion?

He has gone totally quiet??

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
I have no material interest in this sordid affair/theft. What I truly despise are charlatans , thieves and liars who feed on honest people trying to enjoy a great hunt/lifetime memory.
I don’t know Baldry other than by his posts here. Same with 99% of the rest who post here.
I don’t know CME other than via posts and texts.
What I do know is that I was misled and lied to by two other Zambian safari companies. I have not had issues anywhere else in all of my hunting. Coincidence? No idea, but the method of the fleecing was similar - a local “concession owner” booking hunts via contract/non-partner PH’s, then rearranging the deal or out right theft.
The agent I used in one case stood good for the theft. The other, we worked it out and the PH took most of the hit.

There are too many honest and reputable outfits to have to deal with this situation . This situation being an independent PH selling hunts for a concession holder who may or may not have anything - no camp, no long term staff, no real reputation. Then things go wrong and the concession keeps all monies.

When you act as agent and broker a deal, you are part of the success or the problem. Why? YOU SET THIS UP AND PUT THE BUYER AND SELLER TOGETHER. It does not matter if you ever received any money. YOU SET THIS UP.

I doubt anyone here would have booked with Ibi if they knew anything about his operation or set up. You may have noticed Baldry has not said - “I booked/PH’d Joe, Bob and Bill on Ibi’s area with no issues in the past”.

There is no real track record of Baldry and Ibi. No one has come forward saying - I hunted on Ibi’s concession”.

How does Baldry get a pass for selling something for someone with no visible track record?

What am I missing here?

Baldry sold a hunt based on his reputation as a PH. He sold it and directed where payment should go. And he did this unaware that Ibi did not have the concession? I suspect Baldry did not know, but IT IS JOB TO KNOW! He is in Zambia, he knows the players, he knows who to ask.

Have I missed a fact somewhere?

Back to my original angst - you act as an agent, you the responsibility that goes with it. You can’t plead “I did not know” and get a pass.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
I have no material interest in this sordid affair/theft. What I truly despise are charlatans , thieves and liars who feed on honest people trying to enjoy a great hunt/lifetime memory.
I don’t know Baldry other than by his posts here. Same with 99% of the rest who post here.
I don’t know CME other than via posts and texts.
What I do know is that I was misled and lied to by two other Zambian safari companies. I have not had issues anywhere else in all of my hunting. Coincidence? No idea, but the method of the fleecing was similar - a local “concession owner” booking hunts via contract/non-partner PH’s, then rearranging the deal or out right theft.
The agent I used in one case stood good for the theft. The other, we worked it out and the PH took most of the hit.

There are too many honest and reputable outfits to have to deal with this situation . This situation being an independent PH selling hunts for a concession holder who may or may not have anything - no camp, no long term staff, no real reputation. Then things go wrong and the concession keeps all monies.

When you act as agent and broker a deal, you are part of the success or the problem. Why? YOU SET THIS UP AND PUT THE BUYER AND SELLER TOGETHER. It does not matter if you ever received any money. YOU SET THIS UP.

I doubt anyone here would have booked with Ibi if they knew anything about his operation or set up. You may have noticed Baldry has not said - “I booked/PH’d Joe, Bob and Bill on Ibi’s area with no issues in the past”.

There is no real track record of Baldry and Ibi. No one has come forward saying - I hunted on Ibi’s concession”.

How does Baldry get a pass for selling something for someone with no visible track record?

What am I missing here?

Baldry sold a hunt based on his reputation as a PH. He sold it and directed where payment should go. And he did this unaware that Ibi did not have the concession? I suspect Baldry did not know, but IT IS JOB TO KNOW! He is in Zambia, he knows the players, he knows who to ask.

Have I missed a fact somewhere?

Back to my original angst - you act as an agent, you the responsibility that goes with it. You can’t plead “I did not know” and get a pass.

Andrew NEVER sold anything to any one.

A business transaction between two individuals who agreed on terms. BETWEEN THEMSELVES!

Andrew had absolutely, POSITIVELY, no hands in it!

I am almost getting to the point of suspecting some here are being on Ibi’s side!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
I have no material interest in this sordid affair/theft. What I truly despise are charlatans , thieves and liars who feed on honest people trying to enjoy a great hunt/lifetime memory.
I don’t know Baldry other than by his posts here. Same with 99% of the rest who post here.
I don’t know CME other than via posts and texts.
What I do know is that I was misled and lied to by two other Zambian safari companies. I have not had issues anywhere else in all of my hunting. Coincidence? No idea, but the method of the fleecing was similar - a local “concession owner” booking hunts via contract/non-partner PH’s, then rearranging the deal or out right theft.
The agent I used in one case stood good for the theft. The other, we worked it out and the PH took most of the hit.

There are too many honest and reputable outfits to have to deal with this situation . This situation being an independent PH selling hunts for a concession holder who may or may not have anything - no camp, no long term staff, no real reputation. Then things go wrong and the concession keeps all monies.

When you act as agent and broker a deal, you are part of the success or the problem. Why? YOU SET THIS UP AND PUT THE BUYER AND SELLER TOGETHER. It does not matter if you ever received any money. YOU SET THIS UP.

I doubt anyone here would have booked with Ibi if they knew anything about his operation or set up. You may have noticed Baldry has not said - “I booked/PH’d Joe, Bob and Bill on Ibi’s area with no issues in the past”.

There is no real track record of Baldry and Ibi. No one has come forward saying - I hunted on Ibi’s concession”.

How does Baldry get a pass for selling something for someone with no visible track record?

What am I missing here?

Baldry sold a hunt based on his reputation as a PH. He sold it and directed where payment should go. And he did this unaware that Ibi did not have the concession? I suspect Baldry did not know, but IT IS JOB TO KNOW! He is in Zambia, he knows the players, he knows who to ask.

Have I missed a fact somewhere?

Back to my original angst - you act as an agent, you the responsibility that goes with it. You can’t plead “I did not know” and get a pass.

Andrew NEVER sold anything to any one.

A business transaction between two individuals who agreed on terms. BETWEEN THEMSELVES!

Andrew had absolutely, POSITIVELY, no hands in it!

I am almost getting to the point of suspecting some here are being on Ibi’s side!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

Andrew had absolutely, POSITIVELY, no hands in it!

quote:

Originally posted by ilitshe_zim:
Andrew marketed the hunt to CME. He sold the hunt to CME and told him where to send the money. He directed the whole affair from the start


And for Andrew to say he lost business because of this, it's because reputation drives turnover, think about it, public knows Andrew stuffed up.. and the more he posts the worse it gets. His best option is to get CME paid back asap so this problem can go away.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
I have no material interest in this sordid affair/theft. What I truly despise are charlatans , thieves and liars who feed on honest people trying to enjoy a great hunt/lifetime memory.
I don’t know Baldry other than by his posts here. Same with 99% of the rest who post here.
I don’t know CME other than via posts and texts.
What I do know is that I was misled and lied to by two other Zambian safari companies. I have not had issues anywhere else in all of my hunting. Coincidence? No idea, but the method of the fleecing was similar - a local “concession owner” booking hunts via contract/non-partner PH’s, then rearranging the deal or out right theft.
The agent I used in one case stood good for the theft. The other, we worked it out and the PH took most of the hit.

There are too many honest and reputable outfits to have to deal with this situation . This situation being an independent PH selling hunts for a concession holder who may or may not have anything - no camp, no long term staff, no real reputation. Then things go wrong and the concession keeps all monies.

When you act as agent and broker a deal, you are part of the success or the problem. Why? YOU SET THIS UP AND PUT THE BUYER AND SELLER TOGETHER. It does not matter if you ever received any money. YOU SET THIS UP.

I doubt anyone here would have booked with Ibi if they knew anything about his operation or set up. You may have noticed Baldry has not said - “I booked/PH’d Joe, Bob and Bill on Ibi’s area with no issues in the past”.

There is no real track record of Baldry and Ibi. No one has come forward saying - I hunted on Ibi’s concession”.

How does Baldry get a pass for selling something for someone with no visible track record?

What am I missing here?

Baldry sold a hunt based on his reputation as a PH. He sold it and directed where payment should go. And he did this unaware that Ibi did not have the concession? I suspect Baldry did not know, but IT IS JOB TO KNOW! He is in Zambia, he knows the players, he knows who to ask.

Have I missed a fact somewhere?

Back to my original angst - you act as an agent, you the responsibility that goes with it. You can’t plead “I did not know” and get a pass.

Andrew NEVER sold anything to any one.

A business transaction between two individuals who agreed on terms. BETWEEN THEMSELVES!

Andrew had absolutely, POSITIVELY, no hands in it!

I am almost getting to the point of suspecting some here are being on Ibi’s side!

quote:

Originally posted by Kpoynter:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
Michael,
No, a Go Fund Drive is for folks in a jam, not for people who put themselves in a jam by their own actions.
Agree that Baldry never got any money but he directed where it was to be sent and sold the hunt on a concession he would not get access to. Then, when refunds were passed out, did he remotely attempt to get his client paid first?

I won’t restate anything more here. You know my position. You act as an agent then you are accountable.

Yes we do.

Endless, pointless, accusations against a man who never received a penny!

What I like to know is, where is the client in all this discussion?

He has gone totally quiet??

He sees every comment here daily….
The only real recourse is to use the legal system at this point.
Ibi is a lying (and IMO stealing) POS..on that we can all agree
I won’t go into details but let’s say these are far from honest people…
And Andrew….you 100% roped him into this deal (with original good intentions)
You crapped the bed in your handling of it once things went South
And for the thousandth time…no one ever asked or expected Andrew to pay money back…
He was expected to give a shit….be a man…. Admit his mistakes… try to help….
He did none of these things and lied and doubled down.