quote:

Originally posted by TNTBR:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
The blame/accountability falls on both.

100% accurate

Total bullshit!

Who took the money is responsible for it.

No one else!

But if it makes some of you happy to keep blabbering about it, carry on.

Ibi is the real crook in this.

quote:

Originally posted by Charlie64:

quote:

I hope for a hunt report. Not many left who have hunted Kenya.

My uncle was a Warden with Parks in Kenya. He an my father hunted and culled extensively. Funny thing was that my father only ever wanted one trophy - a Grevy zebra stallion. He took one with a .300 H&H by Holland & Holland (which he sold for 50 pounds when he left Kenya). The Grevy skin is on my study floor. Huge skin!

I have childhood memories of safari camps and sleeping in the back of a canvas topped Landrover under an army wool blanket and the spare tyre as my pillow!

A slight detour to this thread ..... apologies.


.

Grevy skin is a neat trophy to have. They are definitely larger than other zebra. Really cool.

Do you mind sharing where you lived and when you left Kenya?


All the best.

Halloween and still no cash and failed promises. Hope Ibi and Baldry can sleep at night…

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
Halloween and still no cash and failed promises. Hope Ibi and Baldry can sleep at night…

Still blaming the wrong person!

Unfortunately, I re-read this entire debacle. I was feeding a grandson, had time for 2 12 oz bottles.

I still believe the same as I have stated. Baldry acted as an agent. He sold the hunt. He directed where the money went and to whom. He nor Ibi had the concession. Baldry says he did not receive a dime. I tend to believe him. As to the rest of the story/narrative - I really wonder what was said and actually done.

In the end, Ibi owes CME $75,000. Baldry is complicit and is accountable as well. He acted as an agent and sold something that was not real.

Sorry, again, to disagree with Saeed and others on who is complicit. We disagree on 50% of this. We agree Ibi is the con man here and should pay this back. Baldry is part of the problem as well and should be held accountable.

Will CME get his money??? I doubt it seeing the parties involved. If he takes legal action, I suspect it will be difficult to get anything, but am hoping he does.

quote:

In the end, Ibi owes CME $75,000. Baldry is complicit and is accountable as well. He acted as an agent and sold something that was not real.

If you can't see this...well.....you just don't want too!

Congrats on the grandkid!



.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
Unfortunately, I re-read this entire debacle. I was feeding a grandson, had time for 2 12 oz bottles.

I still believe the same as I have stated. Baldry acted as an agent. He sold the hunt. He directed where the money went and to whom. He nor Ibi had the concession. Baldry says he did not receive a dime. I tend to believe him. As to the rest of the story/narrative - I really wonder what was said and actually done.

In the end, Ibi owes CME $75,000. Baldry is complicit and is accountable as well. He acted as an agent and sold something that was not real.

Sorry, again, to disagree with Saeed and others on who is complicit. We disagree on 50% of this. We agree Ibi is the con man here and should pay this back. Baldry is part of the problem as well and should be held accountable.

Will CME get his money??? I doubt it seeing the parties involved. If he takes legal action, I suspect it will be difficult to get anything, but am hoping he does.

CME might have gotten his money back.

If he concentrated his efforts on the guilty party!

And you continuing this crusade against Andrew is not going to help CME get his money back.

Carry on.

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:

quote:

In the end, Ibi owes CME $75,000. Baldry is complicit and is accountable as well. He acted as an agent and sold something that was not real.

If you can't see this...well.....you just don't want too!

Congrats on the grandkid!



.

You are Correct… takes Cognitive Dissonance not to

quote:

Originally posted by Kpoynter:

You are Correct… takes Cognitive Dissonance not to

. . . it is sort of amazing. Someone that advertises and markets a hunt, negotiates the package with the hunter, sets the dates with the hunter, is going to be the PH on the hunt, does all the coordination of the hunt with the concession owner, markets and gets the hunter to upgrade the hunt, then tells the hunter to pay the concession owner . . . the person that does all the leg work from inception to finalization . . . is given a complete pass simply because, per his instructions, the hunter paid the concession owner directly. I continue to believe that if most of the people defending Baldry were in the same position as Corey, they would take a very different view.

I have seen a new document this afternoon. Ibi is even a bigger liar and scumbag than I thought before.

Perhaps it will get posted here.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Kpoynter:

You are Correct… takes Cognitive Dissonance not to

. . . it is sort of amazing. Someone that advertises and markets a hunt, negotiates the package with the hunter, sets the dates with the hunter, is going to be the PH on the hunt, does all the coordination of the hunt with the concession owner, markets and gets the hunter to upgrade the hunt, then tells the hunter to pay the concession owner . . . the person that does all the leg work from inception to finalization . . . is given a complete pass simply because, per his instructions, the hunter paid the concession owner directly. I continue to believe that if most of the people defending Baldry were in the same position as Corey, they would take a very different view.

I can assure you if I was in his place I would put ALL the blame on whoever got the money!

quote:

Baldry says he did not receive a dime. I tend to believe him.

quote:

Baldry is complicit and is accountable as well.

What would you suggest to hold him "accountable"?

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Kpoynter:

You are Correct… takes Cognitive Dissonance not to

. . . it is sort of amazing. Someone that advertises and markets a hunt, negotiates the package with the hunter, sets the dates with the hunter, is going to be the PH on the hunt, does all the coordination of the hunt with the concession owner, markets and gets the hunter to upgrade the hunt, then tells the hunter to pay the concession owner . . . the person that does all the leg work from inception to finalization . . . is given a complete pass simply because, per his instructions, the hunter paid the concession owner directly. I continue to believe that if most of the people defending Baldry were in the same position as Corey, they would take a very different view.

'gets the hunter to upgrade the hunt, then tells the hunter to pay the concession owner' That is a false statement and I was recently inquisitioned by our authorities as to whether I had received funds from either Corey or Ibi and was assured that they were pursuing this with Impanga Safaris. As Corey was the complainant he would know more so maybe he could make a statement here?

quote:

is given a complete pass

you girls have been bitching for 32 pages, What would you suggest would be adequate?

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Kpoynter:

You are Correct… takes Cognitive Dissonance not to

. . . it is sort of amazing. Someone that advertises and markets a hunt, negotiates the package with the hunter, sets the dates with the hunter, is going to be the PH on the hunt, does all the coordination of the hunt with the concession owner, markets and gets the hunter to upgrade the hunt, then tells the hunter to pay the concession owner . . . the person that does all the leg work from inception to finalization . . . is given a complete pass simply because, per his instructions, the hunter paid the concession owner directly. I continue to believe that if most of the people defending Baldry were in the same position as Corey, they would take a very different view.

Feel better? Vote Trump and all your worries and insecurities will go away.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I have seen a new document this afternoon. Ibi is even a bigger liar and scumbag than I thought before.

Perhaps it will get posted here.

Same here.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Kpoynter:

You are Correct… takes Cognitive Dissonance not to

. . . it is sort of amazing. Someone that advertises and markets a hunt, negotiates the package with the hunter, sets the dates with the hunter, is going to be the PH on the hunt, does all the coordination of the hunt with the concession owner, markets and gets the hunter to upgrade the hunt, then tells the hunter to pay the concession owner . . . the person that does all the leg work from inception to finalization . . . is given a complete pass simply because, per his instructions, the hunter paid the concession owner directly. I continue to believe that if most of the people defending Baldry were in the same position as Corey, they would take a very different view.

Feel better? Vote Trump and all your worries and insecurities will go away.

Baldry,
You amaze most of us with your "it aint my problem" attitude. You acted as an agent in this mess yet feel no accountability. You were the conduit and facilitator for this. I cannot imagine what reality you think you are seeing....

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:

quote:

is given a complete pass

you girls have been bitching for 32 pages, What would you suggest would be adequate?

Refund CME in the entirety is the only satisfactory conclusion.

quote:

Refund CME in the entirety is the only satisfactory conclusion.

And Andrew should do that?

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:

quote:

Refund CME in the entirety is the only satisfactory conclusion.

And Andrew should do that?

Brad… No one ever said Andrew should. ibi Should
Andrew simply has some culpability in the Sales process right up till the end 30 days prior to departure and more

Andrew has been trying every he could to help.

Really??? No evidence of it. Especially if you visit with CME.
Andrew should do any and everything as he was the conduit and acting as agent in this.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Andrew has been trying every he could to help.

That's hilarious!

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
Really??? No evidence of it. Especially if you visit with CME.
Andrew should do any and everything as he was the conduit and acting as agent in this.

You seem to know everything.

Except the real FACTS of who got the money!

You and CME blaming Andrew is just blowing hot air.

Ain’t going to have any effect.

Try directing that onto Ibi!

MIGHT help.

Or better still, why don’t you two hop on a plane and meet Ibi?

This should have been done a long time ago.

Once Ibi’s attitude became clear!

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Andrew has been trying every he could to help.

That's hilarious!

. . . and completely predictable. If Andrew was trying every way he could to help, why would Corey have felt the need to call Andrew out here in the first place?

Link

What MJines said....

Oh brother...

Nothing is going happen.

Ibi will sleep on the money.

You can carry on blabbering as much as you like.

What happened to all the threats against Ibi and his family in US?

Lawyers have big mouths, but when it comes to actions they become to tally useless!

What hate the US Embassy there?

Why are they not getting involved?

Earlier you all had fantastic ideas of how to make Ibi suffer for his misdeeds!

Any development?

quote:

Brad… No one ever said Andrew should. ibi Should
Andrew simply has some culpability in the Sales process right up till the end 30 days prior to departure and more

Actually, when I asked Dogcat for clarification as to what would be adequate to hold Andrew "accountable", he stated:

quote:

Refund CME in the entirety is the only satisfactory conclusion.

I then asked for clarification if he meant Andrew? I notice he has not replied to my question, I assume because that would be ridiculous right after he stated:

quote:

Baldry says he did not receive a dime. I tend to believe him.

I also asked MJines what would be adequate after he commented that Andrew got a "complete pass". And crickets from that side of the thread.

Now you have chimed in so I will ask you, What would be adequate for Andrew to be held accountable?

We got a lawyer and his sidekick screaming bloody murder sitting comfortably in the US.

While Ibi is enjoying the benefits of $75,000.

With a big smile on his face - he reads this thread - and giving them the FINGER!

Blaming Andrew for this is not only wrong but useless. This and the original thread have proven that. Andrew did not take the client’s money and does not have a cent of it.

Even blaming Ibi, the true culprit, here on this public forum, has been useless, and worse, counterproductive.

Complaining and casting blame won’t get you anywhere unless you are willing and able to take legal action.

These threads have proven that, too.

The whole idea of this thread is to divert attention from Ibi!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
The whole idea of this thread is to divert attention from Ibi!

No, this thread is doing exactly what was intended.

Counterproductive? I think there are plenty of lessons to be learned from this thread for anyone paying attention:

* Be especially careful in booking with freelance outfitters that do not control the concession areas they are selling.

* Do not pay the entire hunt price in advance and if asked to do so consider using some escrow arrangement.

* If you are booking with a freelance outfitter, insist that your contract is with the outfitter, let the outfitter have his own contractual relationship with the concession owner. Do not let the outfitter position himself as a “middleman”.

* Alternatively, make sure you have your outfitter on any contract that you sign with the concession owner to ensure that there is privity between you and the outfitter if there are issues with the hunt.

What is abundantly clear from these threads is that unless you have the outfitter contractually committed to the arrangement, you are simply dependent on the good graces of the outfitter to help you out if things go tits up and some outfitters are content to just let you sort things out on your own. And of course always do your due diligence on the outfitter.

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:

quote:

Brad… No one ever said Andrew should. ibi Should
Andrew simply has some culpability in the Sales process right up till the end 30 days prior to departure and more

Actually, when I asked Dogcat for clarification as to what would be adequate to hold Andrew "accountable", he stated:

quote:

Refund CME in the entirety is the only satisfactory conclusion.

I then asked for clarification if he meant Andrew? I notice he has not replied to my question, I assume because that would be ridiculous right after he stated:

quote:

Baldry says he did not receive a dime. I tend to believe him.

I also asked MJines what would be adequate after he commented that Andrew got a "complete pass". And crickets from that side of the thread.

Now you have chimed in so I will ask you, What would be adequate for Andrew to be held accountable?

I thought I was clear - Baldry/Ibi owe CME the full amount. If I were Baldry, I would do any and everything to pay this/make it right and hope that the good will it would create would book me up for five years. However, he took the "it aint my problem" path. I would think anyone researching him would see this thread or hear about it and then think twice about booking with an "agent" that does not stand behind his deal.

I would then wear Ibi out to get the money, assuming Baldry has the will to do so....

To be clear, I have been hooped by two outfits in Zambia. I am not saying it is all of Zambia but I would be a fool to book with anyone other than Thor Kirchner or the DuPloy's after what happened here and what happened to me. My losses were $7500 on one hunt and $0 on the other as Jeff Neal stood good for the stolen money.

It is irrelevant to me who got the money as it was directed by Baldry to Ibi. Hence, I see Baldry as accountable. He acted as an agent and would have likely gotten a commission after the hunt. He stood to gain in the future - most likely.

Anyway, no one is going to change their perspective on this, so I will keep posting this to keep it on the front page of this forum until CME gets satisfaction....

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Counterproductive? I think there are plenty of lessons to be learned from this thread for anyone paying attention:

* Be especially careful in booking with freelance outfitters that do not control the concession areas they are selling.

* Do not pay the entire hunt price in advance and if asked to do so consider using some escrow arrangement.

* If you are booking with a freelance outfitter, insist that your contract is with the outfitter, let the outfitter have his own contractual relationship with the concession owner. Do not let the outfitter position himself as a “middleman”.

* Alternatively, make sure you have your outfitter on any contract that you sign with the concession owner to ensure that there is privity between you and the outfitter if there are issues with the hunt.

What is abundantly clear from these threads is that unless you have the outfitter contractually committed to the arrangement, you are simply dependent on the good graces of the outfitter to help you out if things go tits up and some outfitters are content to just let you sort things out on your own. And of course always do your due diligence on the outfitter.

Pretty fundamental stuff, although the contractual advice is unrealistic in the African hunting marketplace.

But that is not even close to what I meant.

Wider lessons are great for those who need them, but they were not the goal of this thread or the other one.

Their purpose, however misguided, seems to have been to get the original poster repaid.

These threads have been counterproductive because they have not only failed to accomplish that, but they seem to have made things worse on that front than ever before.

Anyone who hopes to be repaid a debt - without having to file a lawsuit - is generally well-advised not to call his debtor a thief, even if he is one.

Especially not in a public forum.

I would have thought that was pretty fundamental, too.

. . . these threads were started by Corey. After he had been taken for almost $80,000 and was receiving no assistance from the person that sold him the hunt, Baldry. And even then, only after Baldry had the temerity to call out another outfitter as a scoundrel. And who can blame Corey for doing so under the circumstances . . . the only surprising thing is that he waited as long as he did before calling Baldry out.

First, I do not believe for a minute that Andrew has not done all he realistically can to get the poster his money back from the outfitter.

And unlike everyone attacking him, I know him personally.

Second, since we’re apparently talking about lessons, the original thread and this one are great lessons on how to shoot yourself in the foot.

But sadly for the original poster, here we are.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . these threads were started by Corey. After he had been taken for almost $80,000 and was receiving no assistance from the person that sold him the hunt, Baldry. And even then, only after Baldry had the temerity to call out another outfitter as a scoundrel. And who can blame Corey for doing so under the circumstances . . . the only surprising thing is that he waited as long as he did before calling Baldry out.

Yep, what you said....

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
First, I do not believe for a minute that Andrew has not done all he realistically can to get the poster his money back from the outfitter.

And unlike everyone attacking him, I know him personally.

Second, since we’re apparently talking about lessons, the original thread and this one are great lessons on how to shoot yourself in the foot.

But sadly for the original poster, here we are.

Michael,
I respect you and your opinions as you have been here a long time and shared a lot of great info and experience.
I disagree with you on this, respectfully.

I continue to poke this as I see this as a theft and swindle. I see the same facts that you see here, but it just is flat out wrong. I see Baldry as part of this, even though not getting any money and likely not knowing what Ibi had done or had knowledge of.
He reminds of the little old lady that was asked to hold a bag for someone at the airport and it turns out the bag was full of drugs.

Baldry should not be as ignorant as he appears in this. He has been around a long time. He has been selling his services here and other places on the internet.
I get it that he has had his camps taken over/burned or whatever. I get it that Ibi likely baited this hook and he sold it to CME.

However, not being aware of what you are selling or that what your are selling is not available to sell is on him. He has to own that and be accountable for it.

Yes, I agree, that Ibi has the money. But Ibi refunded several other clients before CME. Baldry was aware of this, yet did not press Ibi to take care of his client.

Where will this end? Hopefully with CME getting his money. I could care less how this "plays out" for Ibi or Baldry as they are the problem here. Will CME not get his money from Ibi due to this forum? I have no clue. If I cared one whit about my reputation, business dealings, the future business - I would have busted my rear to get everyone paid back and been upfront about it.

Explain this - why would Ibi refund everyone else in full and not CME? If he did not have all of the cash to refund everyone in full, then why did he and Baldry not discuss a partial or prorated payback of all instead of hosing CME? Why did they not tell all involved up front the truth and lay out a plan to repay - at least in part the deposits??? No idea, but bankruptcy courts work that way and it is logical.

Anyway, you know where I stand and I hope this concludes positively for CME.

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
The whole idea of this thread is to divert attention from Ibi!

No, this thread is doing exactly what was intended.

Exactly!

Put all the blame on Andrew!