quote:

As custom home builders, we had a client stiff us for a 6 figure dollar amount the last week of October last year, the week after we returned from our trip. This amounted to their final bill on the job. This left a lot of sub contractors and suppliers unpaid. Yes, our sub-contract says "You get paid when we get paid" but the bottom line is even though the suppliers and subs worked and provided materials for the new home owner, we, through our company, hired them to do the work. The bank was no help in that the client had a one time close construction loan so our lien didn't stop them from moving in and converting the construction loan to a permanent mortgage.

SO, the way we handled it was I sold a paid off car, I sold all 3 of my doubles, and a few other items. I used these funds to pay off all sub-contractors and suppliers with the exception of one. For that one, I worked out a deal where the first X amount of profit I had in the next job would go to him so that he was also made whole. He has been paid in full at this time. This arrangement now has all of my business relationships in good standing and paid in full.

Wow, as someone in the construction industry, we need more people like you. It is good to see that regardless of an inequitable "pay when paid" clause, you chose to stand in the breach and do what is morally just. That being said, to copy someone else on this thread "chalk and cheese". Services were provided, a product was delivered, you have a legal claim against the owner for your work, best of luck collecting it. In this scenario, payment was collected, no service was provided and the person who received the funds, absconded with them. What claim would Andrew have as a third party if he voluntarily initiated payment to Corey then went after Ibi? I guess you could set some contract where Andrew is purchasing the debt, but that would get eviscerated in a US court, I can't imagine what would happen in Zambia. People don't "buy" unsecured debt like this for a reason, if it is basically uncollectable for the original party, it is hopeless for seconds and thirds. Hats off to you Todd for being "That Guy", and best of luck to Corey in collecting from Ibi.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . what about the ones that booked with him who never got to hunt with him?

Never heard of a single person who paid him and did have a great hunt!

Name ONE please!

+1.

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . what about the ones that booked with him who never got to hunt with him?

Never heard of a single person who paid him and did have a great hunt!

Name ONE please!

+1.

Don’t get too excited…
$80,000 / 8 is $10,000 a hunter to be reapplied, which….you know…is actually what happened by their own admission (seems like maybe it was 6 hunters)
Better to deal with one mess than 8 separate messes right?

Updates from anyone???
Not letting this die or leave the front page until CME is paid back...

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
Updates from anyone???
Not letting this die or leave the front page until CME is paid back...

What are YOU doing about it?

Except blaming the wrong person??

Me?
I am supporting CME and will continue to hold what little pressure I can on Baldry and his buddy, Ibi.

What about you....??? Keep the thread open while giving Baldry a pass???

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
Me?
I am supporting CME and will continue to hold what little pressure I can on Baldry and his buddy, Ibi.

What about you....??? Keep the thread open while giving Baldry a pass???

There is nothing would make me happier than CME getting his money back!

And I will continue to call IBI a crook, because HE is the one who has taken the money.

Most certainly NOT Andrew.

He never received a penny!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
Me?
I am supporting CME and will continue to hold what little pressure I can on Baldry and his buddy, Ibi.

What about you....??? Keep the thread open while giving Baldry a pass???

There is nothing would make me happier than CME getting his money back!

And I will continue to call IBI a crook, because HE is the one who has taken the money.

Most certainly NOT Andrew.

He never received a penny!

Me, too.

100%!

Me three…!

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . what about the ones that booked with him who never got to hunt with him?

Never heard of a single person who paid him and did have a great hunt!

Name ONE please!

+1.

I have asked the above question of those screaming their heads off blaming Andrew for this mess.

Funny how non has even bothered to answer it!

Andrew has been providing exceptional services to all HIS clients.

Never heard of single complaints.

But, some people just like to divert attention from the real crooks, and blame him!!

Classic Internet heroes!

. . . pretty sure Corey is complaining. Complaining about a hunt that Andrew marketed and sold that never took place. Complaining about being out $80,000 that was paid to the ostensible concession holder (who may not have even held the concession) that he was set up with by Andrew. Complaining about Andrew doing squat to try to help him get his money back because Andrew did not want to burn any bridges with Ibi. Yep, I am pretty sure Corey is complaining that he did not receive exceptional service from Baldry. Interesting that apparently you must think Corey is a liar. He was a direct party to the events complained of here and he believes Andrew failed him. You, on the other hand, knowing virtually nothing about the transaction want to try to paint the picture that Andrew is a victim too. I think I’ll side with Corey after all his story has been consistent since the beginning unlike the changing story Baldry told . Not to mention the fact that Corey is one that has been screwed out of $80,000.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . pretty sure Corey is complaining. Complaining about a hunt that Andrew marketed and sold that never took place. Complaining about being out $80,000 that was paid to the ostensible concession holder (who may not have even held the concession) that he was set up with by Andrew. Complaining about Andrew doing squat to try to help him get his money back because Andrew did not want to burn any bridges with Ibi. Yep, I am pretty sure Corey is complaining that he did not receive exceptional service from Baldry. Interesting that apparently you must think Corey is a liar. He was a direct party to the events complained of here and he believes Andrew failed him. You, on the other hand, knowing virtually nothing about the transaction want to try to paint the picture that Andrew is a victim too. I think I’ll side with Corey after all his story has been consistent since the beginning unlike the changing story Baldry told . Not to mention the fact that Corey is one that has been screwed out of $80,000.

Corey did not hunt with Andrew.

Corey never paid a penny to Andrew!

Is this the sort of logic a lawyer follows?

No wonder no one trusts your bloody lot!

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . pretty sure Corey is complaining. Complaining about a hunt that Andrew marketed and sold that never took place. Complaining about being out $80,000 that was paid to the ostensible concession holder (who may not have even held the concession) that he was set up with by Andrew. Complaining about Andrew doing squat to try to help him get his money back because Andrew did not want to burn any bridges with Ibi. Yep, I am pretty sure Corey is complaining that he did not receive exceptional service from Baldry. Interesting that apparently you must think Corey is a liar. He was a direct party to the events complained of here and he believes Andrew failed him. You, on the other hand, knowing virtually nothing about the transaction want to try to paint the picture that Andrew is a victim too. I think I’ll side with Corey after all his story has been consistent since the beginning unlike the changing story Baldry told . Not to mention the fact that Corey is one that has been screwed out of $80,000.

Yes, you are right and I have failed to conclude this mess and am at a loss as to what to do which very much stresses me. I no longer support Ibi in any shape or form and nothing constructive has been forwarded to me to work on.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . pretty sure Corey is complaining. Complaining about a hunt that Andrew marketed and sold that never took place. Complaining about being out $80,000 that was paid to the ostensible concession holder (who may not have even held the concession) that he was set up with by Andrew. Complaining about Andrew doing squat to try to help him get his money back because Andrew did not want to burn any bridges with Ibi. Yep, I am pretty sure Corey is complaining that he did not receive exceptional service from Baldry. Interesting that apparently you must think Corey is a liar. He was a direct party to the events complained of here and he believes Andrew failed him. You, on the other hand, knowing virtually nothing about the transaction want to try to paint the picture that Andrew is a victim too. I think I’ll side with Corey after all his story has been consistent since the beginning unlike the changing story Baldry told . Not to mention the fact that Corey is one that has been screwed out of $80,000.

Yes, you are right and I have failed to conclude this mess and am at a loss as to what to do which very much stresses me. I no longer support Ibi in any shape or form and nothing constructive has been forwarded to me to work on.

Hire a lawyer from America!

They think they can solve any problem.

You might need to pay them several times what Ibi has taken from Corey!

As we all know, this thread and argument is divisive with both sides not agreeing on accountability. That got me to thinking.

I was watching the TV series "The Wire". In essence it is about Baltimore police trying to catch some very clever drug dealers. The drug dealers are smart and know the law in the USA. The bosses know not to touch the drugs and to launder the money quickly, which they are very good at. They hire younger wanna be drug dealers and spotters/look outs to do the following in order to keep their "hands clean". 1) they scout for drug buyers, 2) when they contact a potential buyer, they discern if the buyer is legit (not a cop), then they decide if the buyer has money, 3) they then promise the drugs, 4) take the money out of sight to someone else, 5) get the drugs and deliver them, 6) move to another spot and start over.

The money is ultimately delivered to the "boss" who stashes it or pays off his suppliers or lauders it to buy hard assets (real estate, cars, etc.). Rarely in this entire mess does the "boss" get arrested. The police arrest the underlings and they are offered a deal to rat out the boss for a shorter time in jail or no time in jail. Rarely does the boss get ratted out due to the risk to the underling. The underling remains loyal, even from jail.

A similar show is playing out on TV now and is called "Tulsa King".

All of this to say and ask - who is actually guilty of selling drugs? The bosses, the bosses suppliers, the underlings (called "hoppers") or who??
Well, the police would say - "All of the above".

So, in this instance of the Ibi-Baldry-CME theft, who is who? Well, CME is the victim. He was lied to, led down the path and his money handed over to someone who knew that he could not deliver the purchased hunt.

Baldry acted as "hopper" or wanna be agent in selling the hunt, arranging details of where it would be and where to send the money. He says he never was paid. I assume that is true. However, he had a financial stake in this as he would conduct the hunt. It is not clear if Ibi was paying him a finders fee or any fees as there is no proof. However, that happens when an independent PH sells quota or a hunt for a concession holder. Further, that fee is usually paid after the hunt and the concession owner/holder has been paid.

Baldry is an easy target here. He has poured gasoline on the fire with many of his posts. However, he is a "hopper", not the real problem. Is he tainted and accountable - Yes. But he is not the prize or "boss".

Ibi apparently did not own the concession at the time of the sale of hunt. Baldry appears unaware of this and I would agree. A fool would not likely do that intentionally.

When this came to light on AR and other places, sides were chosen and blame cast.

In hind sight the best course of action would have been for Baldry to state the case and pledge to "do everything in his power, influence, whatever" to get Ibi to stand up and refund the money. Baldry says he has done all he can do. Ibi paid $5000 of the $80,000 to CME, other hunters were refunded in full but I have not heard anyone confirm this other than Baldry. I assume it is true or at least partly true.

As we all agree, getting CME his money as well as the other scammed hunters is in Baldry's best interest.

So, I ask, why has Baldry or Ibi not said - "here is a repayment plan, it is the best I can do, but I will do it". Many here say Baldry does not owe anything. I disagree as he was the "hopper" or "arranger" here. He bears some responsibility. Ibi is the thief and deceiver and actually owes ALL of the money to CME.

I get it that a lot emails, texts and calls have been made, threats made, ideas floated that will not accomplish anything other than fan the flames.

I fully understand that Baldry does not have $75,000 in his pocket to pay this off. Most PH's live a great life but die with a worn out Landcruiser and a shot out magazine rifle or double. Bank accounts are often zero or below. It is a hard life, no one gets rich and rarely can a PH retire and not hunt if he is a free lancer. Tough business for sure.

So, what can be done?

One idea - if everyone here that thinks Baldry is a steller PH books a hunt with him, tips him and then Baldry has some funds to help sort this. I get it, many think he does not owe anything. Well, this may give him incentive to go to Ibi and get his own money back.

After having hunted in Zambia twice and been partly scammed each time, I have to wonder how any legal leverage can be applied to Ibi. I would think not.

So, options??? Continue to write bad things about Baldry? Sure, easy to do and does injury to Baldry. Write bad things about Ibi? Sure, but to no effect as he likely does not read this.

Tell me what you would do.....

And what has the WIRE got to do with this one??

Corey contracted with Ibi.

Corey paid Ibi money.

Ibi has not refunded the money.

End of story!

Saeed,
It is an analogy. The set up is the same. Baldry was the "hopper". He set this up and in motion. Agreed, he got no money but he was instrumental in the scam/theft/scheme even though he was unaware there was no concession owned by Ibi. Ignorance of what you are selling is not an excuse. He has accountability.

If you feel otherwise, book your next buff hunt with Baldry, pay someone, then go hunt. Maybe Baldry or whoever would agree to send some of Baldry's fees to CME....

No it isn’t and you know it.

The Wire is a Hollywood drama with most of it unrealistic!

Here we have a person who contracted with a landowner to hunt on his land.

He paid the money required.

The government screwed things up.

The client wants his money tack.

The man he contracted with is refusing to pay him!

Very simple business transaction we all go through almost every day!

quote:

So, I ask, why has Baldry or Ibi not said - "here is a repayment plan, it is the best I can do, but I will do it".

I thought there was a repayment plan in place between Cme and Ibi, hence the 5K installment; that other payments failed to materialize is something else and pretty much evident that Ibi has little or no intention of paying, which is hardly Andrew's fault.

Yet in spite of all the trashing which has gone his way, Andrew appears to be hunting successfully albeit on someone else's concession without any problems.

Who marketed and sold the hunt? Who worked out the terms of the offer with Ibi before marketing the hunt? Who introduced Corey to Ibi and implicitly or explicitly communicated it was okay for Corey to deal with Ibi? Who left Corey hanging when the shit hit the fan because they did not want to burn their bridges with Ibi?

Why do you conveniently overlook these facts Saeed? Because they do not fit your narrative? There may be a few people buying your story that Baldry is some sort of innocent victim himself in this whole mess but I think most people are able to put themselves in Corey's shoes and take a much different view.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Who marketed and sold the hunt? Who worked out the terms of the offer with Ibi before marketing the hunt? Who introduced Corey to Ibi and implicitly or explicitly communicated it was okay for Corey to deal with Ibi? Who left Corey hanging when the shit hit the fan because they did not want to burn their bridges with Ibi?

Why do you conveniently overlook these facts Saeed? Because they do not fit your narrative? There may be a few people buying your story that Baldry is some sort of innocent victim himself in this whole mess but I think most people are able to put themselves in Corey's shoes and take a much different view.

What is point of arguing with individuals who cannot see logic?

I am sure MJines, me and CME along with others ask themselves that everytime I look at this thread....

Here are the logical questions:

1. Who signed the contract?

2. Who defaulted?

3. Who was paid the deposit and has not refunded it?

The answer: Ibi, of course.

There is your culprit.

Not Andrew.

Looking forward to my hunt with Andrew in a few days, booked because of the unreasonable attitude of some on here.

i do encourage some of the naysayers to never recommend an airline, a mechanic or even a restaurant ... as the people you gave those recommendations may hang you on a public forum like you are doing with Andrew.

quote:

Originally posted by the Pom:
Looking forward to my hunt with Andrew in a few days, booked because of the unreasonable attitude of some on here.

+1.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Here are the logical questions:

1. Who signed the contract?

2. Who defaulted?

3. Who was paid the deposit and has not refunded it?

The answer: Ibi, of course.

There is your culprit.

Not Andrew.

Mike you re trying to explain the logic to some that have a grudge against Andrew.

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

So, I ask, why has Baldry or Ibi not said - "here is a repayment plan, it is the best I can do, but I will do it".

I thought there was a repayment plan in place between Cme and Ibi, hence the 5K installment; that other payments failed to materialize is something else and pretty much evident that Ibi has little or no intention of paying, which is hardly Andrew's fault.

Yet in spite of all the trashing which has gone his way, Andrew appears to be hunting successfully albeit on someone else's concession without any problems.

again +1.

quote:

Originally posted by medved:
i do encourage some of the naysayers to never recommend an airline, a mechanic or even a restaurant ... as the people you gave those recommendations may hang you on a public forum like you are doing with Andrew.

. . . chalk and cheese.

I too am working with Andrew to set up my next safari with him in 2025, which will be #7 for us, and #13 for me in total. After hunting in four different African countries so far, with a number of great PHs, Andrew has been my favorite, and the one I keep returning to year after year. He has my complete trust, and my best trophies have been obtained with him.

I truly hope CME can get satisfaction from this ordeal from Ibi, but I don’t know what one can do dealing with Africa. Ibi has not come on this thread, to my knowledge, to shed any light or hope, or refunds! He has the money, and is the only one who can make it right financially with CME.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by medved:
i do encourage some of the naysayers to never recommend an airline, a mechanic or even a restaurant ... as the people you gave those recommendations may hang you on a public forum like you are doing with Andrew.

. . . chalk and cheese.

Your argument has become irrelevant Mike!

You feel so badly about it, why don't YOU take up a court case against Ibi?

I assure you that if this all went down in the US, any lawyer worth his salt would sue both Baldry and Ibi. The most interesting part of the lawsuit would be discovery. I would venture a bet that the correspondence and emails between Baldry and Ibi would be enlightening to say the least. Good luck convincing a judge or jury that Baldry was just some innocent bystander that was a victim of Ibi’s deceit like Corey.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I assure you that if this all went down in the US, any lawyer worth his salt would sue both Baldry and Ibi. The most interesting part of the lawsuit would be discovery. I would venture a bet that the correspondence and emails between Baldry and Ibi would be enlightening to say the least. Good luck convincing a judge or jury that Baldry was just some innocent bystander that was a victim of Ibi’s deceit like Corey.

Thank goodness this was NOT in the US!

Then both Andrew, Ibi and Corey would have lost a lot more than $80,000 each to line up the human vermin pockets!

Again, spoken like someone not out $80,000. I can assure you that Corey wishes he had access to the US court system to try and get his money back . . . that and a little retribution.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Again, spoken like someone not out $80,000. I can assure you that Corey wishes he had access to the US court system to try and get his money back . . . that and a little retribution.

Then he should hunt in the US.

The rest of the word has not been corrupted by stupid laws, where win or loose, the lawyers get paid!

Bloody hell, no wonder there is nothing one can do in the US without looking over his shoulders to see a human parasite trying to free him of his hard earned money!

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I assure you that if this all went down in the US, any lawyer worth his salt would sue both Baldry and Ibi. The most interesting part of the lawsuit would be discovery. I would venture a bet that the correspondence and emails between Baldry and Ibi would be enlightening to say the least. Good luck convincing a judge or jury that Baldry was just some innocent bystander that was a victim of Ibi’s deceit like Corey.

You surmise this was a con and somehow I am a benefactor. The only thing I inherited was a world of stress and uncertainty. You talk of threats, emails, and calls that I am not privy to and state that I am not doing enough for Corey but do not have a solution of your own?

There are two AR members here who have corresponded with Ibi regarding their safaris and I doubt they are willing to post the contents; there is no need to as they were adequately refunded.

I will help Corey in any way I can but I have very little authority in this country and all I have spoken with have suggested the legal route.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I assure you that if this all went down in the US, any lawyer worth his salt would sue both Baldry and Ibi. The most interesting part of the lawsuit would be discovery. I would venture a bet that the correspondence and emails between Baldry and Ibi would be enlightening to say the least. Good luck convincing a judge or jury that Baldry was just some innocent bystander that was a victim of Ibi’s deceit like Corey.

You surmise this was a con and somehow I am a benefactor. The only thing I inherited was a world of stress and uncertainty. You talk of threats, emails, and calls that I am not privy to and state that I am not doing enough for Corey but do not have a solution of your own?

There are two AR members here who have corresponded with Ibi regarding their safaris and I doubt they are willing to post the contents; there is no need to as they were adequately refunded.

I will help Corey in any way I can but I have very little authority in this country and all I have spoken with have suggested the legal route.

He wants you to employ him to clear your name that he has been trying to ruin!

Typical lawyer, can’t see the forest for the trees!

Hey Mike, I am sure being a lawyer you can get contacts in Zambia to find a lawyer there.

Then you can go into partnership with him and sue Ibi there.

Of course, with your uncalled attacks on Andrew, you would do all this free of charge to get Corey his money back!

How about it!

Hats off to you if you do!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I assure you that if this all went down in the US, any lawyer worth his salt would sue both Baldry and Ibi. The most interesting part of the lawsuit would be discovery. I would venture a bet that the correspondence and emails between Baldry and Ibi would be enlightening to say the least. Good luck convincing a judge or jury that Baldry was just some innocent bystander that was a victim of Ibi’s deceit like Corey.

You surmise this was a con and somehow I am a benefactor. The only thing I inherited was a world of stress and uncertainty. You talk of threats, emails, and calls that I am not privy to and state that I am not doing enough for Corey but do not have a solution of your own?

There are two AR members here who have corresponded with Ibi regarding their safaris and I doubt they are willing to post the contents; there is no need to as they were adequately refunded.

I will help Corey in any way I can but I have very little authority in this country and all I have spoken with have suggested the legal route.

He wants you to employ him to clear your name that he has been trying to ruin!

Typical lawyer, can’t see the forest for the trees!

Hey Mike, I am sure being a lawyer you can get contacts in Zambia to find a lawyer there.

Then you can go into partnership with him and sue Ibi there.

Of course, with your uncalled attacks on Andrew, you would do all this free of charge to get Corey his money back!

How about it!

Hats off to you if you do!

that is the most hilarious post i ve seen in a while and i do add i will wave my cap as well if Mike is doing so but we all know he is talking agasint Andrew not to help CME that lost 80 000 because of Ibi ...

back to the top.

Where is the money???

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
back to the top.

Where is the money???

Why don’t you get your lawyer friend to go to Zambia and get the money from Ibi?

He has it.

Andrew never did!

Andrew is continuing to provide HIS clients with memorable safaris.

I have asked several times before.

Can you lot accusing him of being in wrong provide us with one dissatisfied client?

Just ONE will do.